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Trip around the world starting in Southeast Asia.
Hi guys!!! I have this dream of riding a moto across the world. I wanted to start in Thailand, go through Laos, Cambodia and uo through Vietnam and then north and explore China before heading west. I have a great travel bike f 650 gs 2009(800cc) but after reading about travel restrictions in Burma, Thailand(recent) and China(dont know how long that has been) I am doubting wether that would be worthwhile for me. I am therefore considering buying a motorcycle perhaps in Thailand and still carrying through with the trip. Does anyone have any advice on a trip such as this? If I buy a motorcycle in Thailand will I be able to take it through the other countries without the hassels alloted for regular "imported" vehicles? Does it make sense to buy a bike in each of the countries I visit in turn? Do these ridiculous guide enforced passages extend to other countries in the region? Laos? Vietnam?
Also does anyone know why these countries are so hostile to motorcycle travellers? I am sure there is some kind of reason that makes sense. The rest of the civilized world lets you get around as long as you respect the law and have a carnet and your docs in order, while host countries benefit from tourist money... Appreciate your help in advance!!! Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk |
Hi Stirletz and welcome,
You could always start your trip somewhere else, SE Asia has become one of the more difficult places to travel with your own bike. As to buying in each country it is very easy to rent in most of them, even crossing borders with local bikes is not always easy so buying might not help. Myanmar has actually got easier than a few years ago when no travel with your own vehicle was allowed, China was also out of bounds to all but backpackers until travel with a guide was allowed. |
The first question thats comes to mind is WHY do you want to start your trip in the country that has been the most difficult country towards overlanders the last year? The most discussed countries on forums as well as facebookgroups?
Do yourself a favour - start somewhere else. Why not start where you come from? I wouldnt ship my own bike to Thailand - even if I got paid to do it, which is costly enough just to be honored by having to pay for guides, permits, paperwork an mass which also is very expensive and then be very restricted to your guide. And neighbouring countries can also be hard to go through as well. Myanmar - guides and permits needed, Laos not too bad but a bit restrictive to let in foreign vehicles through certain bordercrossings, Cambodia - well seem to demand Carnets although not a Carnet country and in most other cases also permits from central authorities in Phnom Penh, Vietnam - has been as good as impossible to get into but maybe it has become a tad easier nowadays - officially you need an expensive permit, some guys have been able to enter without, but I wouldnt count on either of this options to be honest, China - permits and guides needed and very expensive, Malaysia - Carnet needed difficult to get mandatory insurance and kind of an dead end cause you need shipping to take you further. To sum it up - to start in the most inconveniant country in the most inconvenaint part of the world seems TOTALLY UNLOGIC to me. But of course others could have another opinion. To buy a bike in Thailand as a foreigner is possible but not easy. You need an official adress (recidency sertificate) which is not always easy to obtain, especially on a tourist visa or a visa excempt which I presume you will be entering the country with. But if you are lucky enough to be able to buy a thai plated bike on ylur own name you should be able to take that thai plated bike into Malaysia, Laos and Cambodia. Other countries would be difficult. Mind you - Laos normally dont let in smaller bikes of 125 cc and less (since Thailand dont let in Lao plated bikes 125 cc and less) so you will need a bike of lets say 200 cc at least. If youre thinking about taking a thai plated bike for long distance travel Im not sure how that would work out. For example - where to get a Carnet for a thai plated bike? I think thats impossible my friend - but prove me wrong if possible. A Vietnam plated bike should be possible to take into Laos and Cambodia but not Thailand. Although in these parts of the world you never know. Into Thailand is normally not allowed. Some "smart" backpackers have paid locals to take their vietnamplated bikes across the borders to Thailand and then continued themselves - unneccesary to say this is very illegal and will only make it harder for lawobeying travellers in the future. Thailand is lead by a military junta that does exactly what it wants, China is a one party communist state and Myanmar are still run by a military government that still supress political activity especially amongst etnical minorities - so what can one expect from those countries.....? |
wow thank you thats a lot to take in and brings up more questions...
i.e. if i do get a Thai plated bike can I bring it to Vietnam? China? What about a Vietnamese plated moto into China? How about purchasing/renting situation in China? What is also the situation with importing my moto to Russia, the easter part of it? (Siberia) The reason I want to start in Thailand is because I want to explore that region of the world as I have been there before backpacking...and have truly enjoyed it. But now I want to do a more complete tour of the land on a motorcycle. I have already gone down to SA on moto and altough its great I did not find it equally fulfilling. I have a dream of visiting Tibet, Mongolia and the going West wprking my way toward Europe. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk |
A thai plated bike into Vietnam I would belive is very very difficult, I havent heard about anyone that has been able to do that other than a very expensive organised tour with guides etc. As I mentioned above - a thai plated bike should go if luck and faith works together into Malaysia, Laos and Cambodia. And Myanmar with a guide and permits of course.
Vietnamese plated bikes into China - well I dont know about that but as far as I know ALL foreign plated vehicles that wants to get into China needs guides and permits etc. And that is very very expensive. You will need to sell a kidney and a lung to be able to afford that if doing that alone. There was quite recently a man who posted his story about buying a bike in China and riding it around there for some weeks. 100 % legal - absolutely no, easy - definetively not, possible - yes. Worth it - well that depends. For example - it is difficult to find accomodation in China because most hotels, hostels, guesthouses are not allowed to house foreigners as they dont have the license to do that. The expensive ones often have - the ones from 70-80 $ a night, the cheaper ones doesnt have license to house you. Also remember many internetsites are blocked in China such as facebook, Google (me thinks?) etc. Can you read chinese? Roadsigns etc? Im not sure about asian plated bikes into Russia, I really dont know. Maybe some others can answer about that. I think russian visas are harder to obtain - depending of nationality of course than maybe vehicle temporary imports. |
RTW start in SEA
You can buy a motorcycle freely in Malaysia, reg fees just pennies as is the ins.
Being an ASEAN country will help in getting in, but with the current maybe ? It was reported in the last few days a couple got into Thailand without the headache, so all is not set in stone yet, donot know the particulars. In Malaysia money and any address will get you a title in your name. |
Malasian bikes are easier to go through all the other south east asian countries? When I went to a HU meet in North Carolina late summer 2013 there was a guy there who said he rode through all the South East Asian countries before tackling the rest of the globe... perhaps because of this?
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I have thoughts in the same direction .
Buying a Thai registered mc. I would ride through Myanmar, India, Pakistan, Iran, Turkey, to Europe. Send mc sea freight, to K. L. Malaisia. Ride back to thailand. This requires carnetter. It is possible to get the carnet in Malaisia, for a Thai registered mc? |
Hi
To say you can't stay in many hotels in China is totally wrong? And normally this information has come from internet post or from a friend of a friend. You will find more hotel that does except western tourist then don't? 4 of the big chain hotels that operate in China DO take western tourist and prices start at $15? IMO Rent in Thailand very cheap too which then you will be able to ride most of the countries around Thailand with not too much problems. Then Buy a bike in China full legal and insured with it in your name (need the correct visa and an address in China) or in the shop's name with a letter of authority to allow you to exit china on the bike. Also, ATA are available in China and your option to get to the EU are greatly improved without great expense. How do I know all these facts........ live in China now for last 8 years have 4 bikes all in my name and have travelled from China on a Chinese plated bike to the UK and back visiting 26 countries. No problems... Also, travel from China on a Chinese plated bike NOT in my name to Thailand before the Ban many times. No information from a friend of a friend just pure facts. For the rest of the world, i can't see a Chinese plated bike haveing no more restriction than any other country? Before someone points out BUT you need a Chinese DL to ride in China? I question that? to be total legal yes but in real terms, you will be in more of a bigger problems if the bike is not insured or legally plated. BUT if you have no Chinese DL then the insurance is void ???? No, the bike is insured regardless who is riding the bike? There are 14 countries that border China these are Russia, India, Kazakhstan, Mongolia, Pakistan, Myanmar, Afghanistan, Vietnam, Laos, Kyrgyzstan, Nepal, Tajikistan, North Korea and Bhutan. Not including Hong Kong or Macau. No other countries come close to the amount of border China has? All are the option to get out from China some easy some very hard? 6 very easy 4 not so easy 3 very hard 1 why would you go? Quote:
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But let's take 2 for now China ???? don't need your money and the Chinese Government are anti motorbikes full stop. Thailand ????? blame the Chinses for this restriction. ( can't drive and don't know there left hand from there right ) Can't find a better-recognized Russia square then this... http://i1360.photobucket.com/albums/...psqusfxlhs.jpg http://i1360.photobucket.com/albums/...psf9fyoayy.jpg links .... http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...na-i-did-82852 http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...frontier-90255 |
So where do you expect one to find information such as about possibilities to stay in chinese hotels other than from friends who have been riding through China, from tripreports here on the forum etc? Is that information worthless? My friend Mika who is a member here have been riding through China , and he was the first, or at least one of the first guy riding through China without guides etc. He have also posted his stories and ride reports here and I have also heard them directly from him. He had problems finding accomodation. Cheap accomodation was in general non accsessible for foreigners and he was even thrown out of places were he at first was allowed to stay after the police made a visit to the hotel/gh. The same is reported from the guy who just recently posted his adventures in China here. I cannot finds his postings here for the moment and doesnt remember his name/nick but he had a paralyzed arm and he was buying a bike in China and riding it around there for a good bit of time. He had also problems finding accomodation and he was slso thrown out of places he had been allowed to check into - if I remember his stories right.
But of course we shouldnt belive in such statementd as they come from the internet and from friends and thus of course are all lies. Well I can of course - tell my own experiences from riding through China if that would matter. But then again it will just be another story on the internet wouldnt it? And thus not reliable. Well I rode through China in 2014, 30 days and around 6000 kms, entering from Kyrgizstan and exiting to Laos. It was an organised group. And the whole itinerary and accomodation was booked long time in advance. But then again 2-3 times it happend that we had to deviate from our original route and had to improvise and find accomodation "out of the book". And for those poor guides of our who had to do it they had a really hard time to find a place that could actually house us. Local police, regional police, higher authorities had to be called and had to approve that foreigners could stay in a hotel without license to do so. I remember especially one remote little town somewhere in Yunnan where there were only one little guesthouse and because of a landslide we couldnt get further so we had to spend a night there. And this little guesthouse had of course not permition to house foreigners and thus it took our guides several hours to get recognition and approval so that we could stay there. So accomodation isnt easy for foreigners in China - thats sure! Well - dont belive me as this is just another internetstory.....doh Thaiplated bikes or other foreign bikes into Vietnam - as I mentioned in my other post - yes some come through without any permits or in organised tours, with expensive organised tours you will come in and with a hefty permit one seem to come in nowadays. But just rocking up at the border will hardly be very succesful. There are dozens of reports of peoplewho have been denied at the vietnamese border. But then again - some people dont belive in tripreports on the internet. I find a bit strange that someone that mistrusts stories written on the internet such as here on the Horizons even bother to write here themselves, as netstories isnt reliable at all. But youre definetively right - one shouldnt belive all one reads on the internet. |
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How are the prices on bikes in Malaysia compared to for example Thailand? |
His name was Tom (The 1 armed guy you are talking about)
I had the pledge to meet him in Chaing rai the other month. The point I am making that good reliable up to date information up about China is hard to come by. ( But Toms post is nearly spot on and I did say so in a reply post?) Yes, hotel in very small towns you could experience difficult finding a hotel that will except a western person. But you are never too far away from a larger town that does (100km max). Also, the police are generally very helpful and if you are stuck the police will always help out and get you signed into an out off way town hotel. It all come down it knowing the rules in China. I seen town which holds over 1.000.000 being built over the last year or so things change very fast with regards to china so internet posting from 2 years or longer IMO is just out of date. By the way, i read the SUN newspaper |
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http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...frontier-90255 |
Just had a read of Tom thread about HOTEL IN CHINA
Here are the importance bits ??? The importance bits I have put in BOLD 21 HOTELS AND HOSTELS: - ALL HOSTELS HAD COMPUTERS FOR PUBLIC USE, HOTELS SOMETIMES HAD COMPUTERS IN THE ROOMS. - I always started to look at least one hour before dark, you'll see why when you read further! - the only time you may have trouble finding accommodation at popular hotels or hostels is during the NATIONAL HOLIDAYS. one is in the 1st week of October and the other is April 5th to 8th, and June 1st and end of September's "moon festival", end of April and first few days of may. check guide books! FOR ME, I never had trouble anywhere, finding a room during holidays. especially if you don't stay at the most popular places. in either small towns or big cities.! HOSTELS: - china has its own chain of international youth hostels in every place or city with big tourist sights, or famous parks etc. online (booking.com and hostelworld.com) they are usually designated "international youth hostel" in the title. these are usually having the same standards as other international hostelling association type hostels. - the Chinese international hostels, have a guide book for free, that has a list of all hostels throughout china, about 150 all together. with phone and addresses. and almost all of these accept foreigners. they also have dormitories, private rooms, restaurants and bar in many cases. dormitories= $5 u.s. to $7.00..... privates starting at about $16 u.s. ...... but I always could find hotels for less money ( $10 to $12.oo u.s.) that were far better, bigger with private bath and t.v. and parking. that were often a few blocks from hostels. then I would go eat dinner or have drinks at these hostels so as to meet other travellers, to get my fix of speaking with someone after long spells of only communicating with Chinese, etc. - either way, there are also thousands of private hostels all over china in all major cities. HOTELS: - NOTE: after you read the hotels section of your travel guide, you will know, that in a few provinces some hotels will not accept foreigners. but don't panic! each time you enter a hotel go in smiling and be positive, just like with the police, and be very patient. I know, its at the end of a long day.! but it's better than going in worried that you might not get the room. as I have learned this after about 160 hotels experience. after being rejected by a hotel in a town, I would go in hotels asking " do you accept foreigners" as my first question!. and this was always a problem. cause they would then start phoning the manager or the police to be sure. and that's after you try to get them to understand your question, that can take 10 minutes. I've learned to always check the price first, then look at the room 2nd. and the less police around the better I always felt. often it may be simply because they don't want the extra hassle than their usual customers. - THE REASON FOR BEING TURNED AWAY FROM HOTELS......... I never knew 100 % why, corruption, government safety, bla bla bla. no matter, its about learning to recognise when you have to leave town!! most often if a hotel denies you with a friendly smile, you must try to ask which hotel will accept foreigners. and get them to point out exactly where it is on a map and how to pronounce its name. if they cant do that, it just means they could be just lying to you! this happened to me a couple of times! try again at the second hotel the second hotel that denies you, then just leave town, otherwise, you could waste a few hours, because they will continue to smile kindly and send you away to 10 different hotels, anywhere to get rid of you. now if you do get proper directions then you will always find, the hotel will be usually about 200 yuan $30.00 u.s. but often this will include a Chinese style breakfast, buffet style? if 200 is over your budget then get out of town. usually, the next town will have no such bullshit... about 4 times in total I decided to stay at the expensive hotel, because I was too tired to drive further. the provinces this happened to me was, most often in Hebei , the province that surrounds Beijing and Tianjin cities. least often were Gansu province and Geermu city in Qinghai province - I NEVER EVER RESERVED A HOTEL, anywhere in china! most towns above 10,000 people had a hotel. I never reserved because there are many variables in china. like, while biking, road problems/delays or getting tired earlier than planned. and never did I end up without a hotel.! i always started looking for hotels at least an hour before dark. and if a whole town denies you a hotel, I then would always drive to next town and find something. the smaller the town the more likely they will not care about who or where your from, and won't even ask for your passport. - ONLY TWICE WAS I ASKED TO LEAVE A HOTEL AFTER CHICKING IN.. usually this is by order of the police, when the hotel tried to register you. or by the owner or manager. but no worries, calmly pack up and just go to the next small town or city. for me, I was never more than 20 minutes from the next town. So i think from Tom report Hotels for westerners are not that hard to find? 2 out off 160 hotels he was asked to leave ??? not bad odds IMO :oops2: |
Well after spending several thousands of nights in hotels/hostels/ghs around the world I have NEVER been asked to leave after checking in - so two times are imho two times too much. And all the other troubles he had finding a place that accepted him in the first place are what I would define as problems finding accomodation. Directions, language barriers etc etc - it all adds up. Easy - no way!!!
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I may have misunderstood so please correct me, but if this is true then there is hope in that plan. I understand that it can be difficult to find accomodation in China at times as there are many regulations and nuances in the country. I appreciate the help and perspectives from both of you guys! A trip around the world is expected to be challenging... just hopefully not so much you cant go through with it lol. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk |
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Well - although HUBB-member Mika did rode through China without guides etc and you can also find his tripreport somewhere here. But to have the patience, courage and nerves to do it like him is not for everybody.... |
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Read the above link... I see no reason why you can't do as I said but please remember because the bike will not be in your name you must get a letter of consent to allow you to take the bike out of the country and you will need a copy of his Chinese ID card. That said is where it could be a problem as the shop might not want to do that? So check with the shop first before you purchase. If you are not coming back to China on the bike you could get away without a Chinese ATA. Can't advise you on this matter as my trip was to return to China so I needed an ATA not for as what is meant for. ( to allow the bike into other countries) but to allow the back into China? TIC This Is China. And make sure you have an IDP. Good luck with your trip. |
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:oops2: http://i1360.photobucket.com/albums/...psrwogy9gr.jpg Looks like a Chinese ATA to me? You can't believe everything you read on the internet |
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Sorry about that. |
I know was you was thinking but once again you are wrong? :rofl:
China Peoples Republic of | USCIB Just read? http://www.atacarnet.com/carnet-countries Not needed if you are on arranged tour but the tour company still has to leave for each bike a deposit of nearly $3000 for a motorbike and $7300 for a car |
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I have been riding through China on a foreign plated vehicle and a Carnet was not needed. And a chinese ATA is not somerhing thats not relevant for anything else than chinese vehicles - and thus not relevant for other than chinese citizens. Whats the point caviling around on forums - do you think you will gain a prize or something? Spreading non relevant info will certainly not... |
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So very relevant to the thread. Not here to gain prizes just trying to help and pass on information which may or may not be useful. My final word on this matter no doubt you will have the last say? Troll normally do. |
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Then when he had come to mention buying a bike in China he stated that China is a Carnet country - which it not is. Have a read here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carn...ages_en_Douane I needed a Carnet for my norwegian registrated bike to take it through certain countries - the Carnet requireing countries in the list above. So I got a Carnet from a norwegian automobil organisation. It doesnt make Norway a Carnet country - does it? The same for China - you will need a Carnet to take a chinese plated vehicle through certain countries - but that doesnt make China itself a Carnet country either. I have always thought that the general and normative meaning, usage and understanding of the term a "carnet country" is a country that requires a carnet from the person that take a foreign vehicle across the countrys borders - a carnet requiring country. If Im wrong here I have surely misunderstood hugely and thus ask for a an appology. However - if anybody disagree with me it could be intereting to here how others understand the term "carnet country"? |
Guys I really appreciate the feedback and the information I recieved from posting is a goldmine. I will be reffering to this post for more. I see theres a debate going on here but I think that theres a lot of miscommunication happening about certain details, but it seems there are two different carnet systems to me. In the end you guys are here to help and I thank you for that. And we are all here to have fun doing one of the most amazing things in our lives... moto travel.
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Someone mentioned throwing some to get a Malay bike registerd, not too much, just like $20 and a passport is sufficient, you can get a Carnet in Malaysia. I have seen a lot of pictures of Malay scooters in China on fb and instagram, at the moment, its riding season here - I don't know if they are guided or what but they seem to have found a way if not. I don't know .. really, there is no answer, if you pick up a malay bike, you are limited to 30 days x2 in Thailand (i think thats what its stands up at the moment, my head hurts trying to keep up) you get 30 days in Laos in one hit (?), unlimited in Cambodia, but your not legal, VN is expensive, Myanmar is expensive. I really think, the best way to do it, get some Moskomoto reckless panniers and just rent or buy some old bike, ride it and return / dump it and move on, SE Asia isn't the place to be messing about at the moment and all i hear is people wanting to travel "on their own bike" cheaply, easily or quickly (or all)- forget it. |
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Anyhow - I agree that it might be the best solution just to rent a bike pr country in SEAsia for the moment. Its too much of a hazzle to cross borders nowadays. There was just a story that two foreigners had bought a 125 cc scooter each and then crossed over to Thailand, unfortunately they didnt get their paperwork right and risk problems and fines when leaving the country. They were also denied acsess to Laos as they were on small bikes (less than 250 cc) and no way around this. |
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They don't have the Honda CRF250, which to my mind, is the ideal solution for a short term purchaser SE Asia, its light, usable straight out of the box, theres always a couple available on Kaidee.com at around 99,000THB for a 2 year old bike, they tend to hold their value. They will roll along at 120-130 on the tarmac. I wish i had one !! The only Malay option is the KLX250 - D-Tracker, or whatever its called, compared to a Thai CRF, its about 50% more expensive, from what i can see. Yeah, recent reinforcement of the 250cc rule means that scooters can't cross in Chiang Khong, but I also read reports from Malay guys in the past week who were gaining access with 110cc scoots at Chong Mek. Recent stories ? You are taking about Caroline, right? Her riding partner lost her temp import form, shouldn't be an issue, the details are logged on the computer. If Cambodian customs take your temp import papers in an effort for you to force you to return to that border, then its not an issue to claim to have lost them when reentering through another border. Its a popular dodge. |
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I saw it on facebook somewhere. Anyhow - bordercrossings are very often a hazzle in these parts of the world - thats bust how it is. Its non-consistent and often a try and see what happens thing.... |
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Just try and see, be patient, speak to people rather than get the rule book out or right off suggestions. Did you read the final chapter on that? They rode to Wang Prachan, handed in one paper, tried to explain the issue - the guy was trying to eat his lunch and he put the paper under a book for safekeeping and he waved them off. lol. Always consider breakfast or lunchtimes when coming through borders :D |
great trip
Hi Stirletz,
I don't have much experience in travelling in southern Asia, but I must say that your trip looks amazing. But don't you think that you can add India in this list? |
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