Originally Posted by TravellingStrom (Post 309537)

I have to say here, that when I wanted to sell my bike, this was the first thread I came to, but found it the most confusing peice of writing I have ever read. What a normal traveller wants to know is how to buy and sell a bike down there in SA. NOT all of them care to buy a new bike, but most of them wish to ride that bike beyond that countries border.

All they want to know is the process in buying a used bike that someone else wants to sell. In fact, a buyer and seller normally find eachother quite easy via this website.

This has nothing to do with the import export laws of new bikes. All they need to know is the precise process involved in 'doing' the paperwork that is needed for the bike to enter the country in one bikers name, and leave with another bikers name.

If I had followed the information supplied by the OP, then I would never have been able to sell my bike down there, because all my questions were answered with more involved hard to read answere, which was really hard to understand when you have limited internet access.

So, I guess what this forum needs is a thread that outlines the EXACT processes needed for the deal to go through, even though there are some grey areas involved.

But, is that allowed on this site, or will there be legal issues if the method is mentioned here?

Cheers
TravellingStrom

Originally Posted by xfiltrate (Post 309540)

In the past, this thread and several other other threads, have reflected the confusion discovered regarding the "laws" of buying and selling foreign registered vehicles/motorcycles in Argentina. I accept full responsibility for my comments and apologize for any confusion.

Waterfox, himself, an Agentine registered "despachate" (importer) stated in his recent post: "I am, funily enough, a registered importer with the Argie Aduana and have NO idea of the law....."

Because the actual laws are so confusing, I will no longer respond to questions regarding buying and selling foreign registered vehicles/motorcycles in Argentina.

IMPORTANT NOTE: This is a moral and legal interpretation on my part, and should not be interpreted as anything but my own personal decision.

I will continue to assist anyone, foreign tourists, permanent foreign residents or Argentines interested in buying and selling Argentine registered vehicles/motorcycles in Argentina.

I will continue my work with the Argentine legislature and the President's office regarding the passing of clear legislation that will permit foreign tourists to purchase new or used Argentine vehicles/motorcycles and then be legally able to secure a Temporary Vehicle Export Permit for the purpose of touring other South American countries and returning to Argentina to park or sell their Argentine registered vehicle/motorcycle.

TravellingStrom, hundreds, if not thousands of readers have benefited from this thread. Many foreign tourists have flown into Buenos Aires, legally purchased new or used Argentine registered motorcycles or vehicles and have had fantastic overland experiences. And then, legally sold their Argentine registered motorcycle or vehicle in Argentina or just legally parked in Argentina until their next tour.

Grant has asked me to simplify my comments. I pray this clarification of the new direction of this thread helps.

xfiltrate

Originally Posted by emauriz (Post 310889)

In my opinion what you are suggesting could be a solution most probably, but the Argentinian bikes (due to high import taxes) are much more expensive and only few models are available compared to wide selections of models available in Europe and USA

Originally Posted by xfiltrate (Post 311033)

Vorteks, thank you for your comments.

In my opinion, the process for a foreign tourist to buy a new Argentine registered motorcycle in Argentina is not "difficult, stressing nor expensive," and does not require standing in line at the airport???

The responsibilities of the foreign tourist buyer are simple.

ONE: The foreign tourist secures a place to live in Argentina, a hostel or hotel will do, then visits the police district station responsible for that neighborhood (barrio) and requests a "domocilio." All that is needed is a passport with a valid tourist visa. The next working day a police officer will visit the foreign tourist at "home" and hand over a document certifying your residence. This cost 10 or 15 pesos, less than $4.00 USD.

TWO: The foreign tourist takes the "domocilio" and passport to the local AfIP office responsible for the neighborhood (barrio) of residence. The foreign tourist requests a CDI (tax number). There might be a short wait, but generally less than an hour. The CDI, is also inexpensive, less than $10.00 USD.

THREE: When buying new, a Gestor, (one who transfers titles as a business) who works for the dealer will complete the process. This costs about $300.00 pesos, less than $100.00 USD. There may also be fees required by Motor Vehicle Dept. but these are also inexpensive. (The actual documents required from the seller when buying used, are listed earlier in this thread)

Four: Once the foreign tourist is given Title and Green Card for the motorcycle the foreign tourist takes these documents and passport to an insurance agency and buys insurance. This is also very inexpensive, about $30.00 USD per month.

FIVE: The foreign tourist than mounts up and rides away. Oh yeah, a helmet is now required in Buenos Aires.

An independent Gestor, can also be employed when buying a used Argentine registered motorcycle in Argentina.

Note, even if your Spanish is limited, Argentines will be able to give directions to the foreign tourist's local police station and local AFIP office.

I would like to know more about the actual process for a foreign tourist to buy new and used buy in the other MERCOSUR countries listed previously.

Yes, I co-wrote a tango. My tango was presented as a "spectacular" at the world famous Cafe Tortoni in Buenos Aires. It is "Tango Wind" and the spectacular was named after my tango. There are also several YouTube videos of Tango Wind -the spectacular. The music video was filmed in London and Buenos Aires.

Here it is: YouTube - Tango Wind

My name appears in the credits after the music. Thanks for bringing up your preference in tangos.

xfiltrate

www.Xfiltrate.com - Professional Motorcycle Parking - Professional Motorcycle Parking

Originally Posted by Grant Johnson (Post 310895)

True - but remember if you want to bring your own bike, you'll pay a lot for shipping it in and out. That can more than cover the difference in price. If you're not "married" to your bike, it's often better/cheaper to arrive, buy anything that rolls, travel and then sell when you leave. And most importantly, you'll sell in the same market you bought - therefore the price is irrelevant, because the only loss is the wear and tear.

Originally Posted by xfiltrate (Post 166343)

Yes, actually an excellent question...Mario, there is a reason and a law for not allowing foreign tourists to by a new or used bike in Argentina and then ride the bike out of Argentina.

There is no reason or Argentine law preventing a foreign tourist from buying a new or used bike in Argentina, as long as he/she has established a "domocillio" and takes the "certificado de Domocilio" to an AFIP office, and requests a CDI (tax number) for foreigners. This, plus a passport, is all that is legally required for a foreign tourist to purchase a new or used bike in Argentina, and with the title of the bike, the bike can then be registered and 2 "green cards" can be legally issued one in the Argentine or Argentine resident's name and the other in the name and "Domocilio" of the foreign tourist.

It is the part about the foreign tourist taking the bike out of Argenina that is prohibited by Argentine law. I have a copy of this law, and even with this law in my hand, 2 out of 3 custom officials (AT THE MINISTRY OF EXTERNAL AFFAIRS) said that it is OK for a foreign tourist to take an Argentine registered bike out of Argentina, as long as the foreign tourist has the "green card" for the bike.

Be that as it may, 2 out of 3 ain't bad, but there does exist this law, and I believe I know why the law was passed. This law was passed as a reciprocal agreement with limitrofos (neighboring countries) to protect the Argentine motorcycle market by preventing less expensive bikes from entering Argentina or the reverse and being sold, and untaxed Argentine bikes from leaving Argentina and being sold in neighboring countries.

My research indicates that Chile does permit (not 100%) and depending on border... foreign tourists in with Argentine purchased bikes and therefore, Argentine border officials allow foreign tourists out of Argentina riding their Argentine purchased bikes at certain border crossings into chile. On the other hand, Bolivia does not allow foreign tourists riding their Argentine bikes into Bolivia. Uruguay had no such restrictions until about 2 years ago and Paraguay is sort of a "no man's land" where anything might happen. Brazil is difficult, especially for North Americans...border officials might and then again they might not permit foreign tourists riding argentine purchased bikes.

But, and this is the key.....Once across the Argentine border into another country, a foreign tourist riding a bike purchased and registered in Argentina has no problems crossing any other border. This of course is dependent upon him/her having the Argentine "green card" for the bike.

The plan described at the beginning of this thread, assures the Argentine authorities, that the bike will return to Argentina for resale, because it is half owned by an Argentine or established Argentine resident. Although, certified paperwork can be legally and simply arranged right after registration of the bike that would permit the foreign tourist to sell the bike, the idea is not to defeat any Argentine law, but to help the economy of Argentina by increasing the sales and re sale of motorcycles in Argentina through the in flow of foreign capital provided by over landers wanting to buy in Argentina, tour South America, and then return to Argentina to sell their bike. this is a good plan because many fly in and out of Buenos Aires.

Of course, and I believe this will become a favored option, the foreign tourist may store/park his/her bike in Argentina forever, because it is a bike registered in Argentina. the advantage here is that the foreign tourist has his/her bike waiting in Argentina for the next tour of South America. Or the foreign tourist may sell the bike to another foreign tourist and that foreign tourist can half own with an Argentine or established resident of Argentina, willing to escort the bike to Uruguay or any other border of Argentina, and then the second foreign tourist may also legally tour all of South America.

I am hereby calling this the "In & Out Border Crossing" plan. If any other potential In and Outers have questions please post here and know I will answer to the best of my ability. Thanks Mario. xfiltrate