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Thanks Karin!
Karin's article was well thought out and thank you for mentioning HU. On this thread I have done my best to describe the process and problems of buying a motor vehicle in Argentina as a foreign tourist.
Currently I am in Spain, but when I return to Buenos Aires this June, I will renew my efforts to have additional legislation passed that changes and more clearly describes the laws regarding a foreign tourist leaving Argentina with a motor vehicle legally purchased and registered in Argentina. (please read comments earlier in this thread) Thus far I have a promise from an Argentine politician that if I produce 100 requests for changes and clarification of the laws preventing Argentine registered motor vehicles, legally owned by foreign tourists, from leaving Argentina, he will propose to the congress that the matter be considered. These changes might stimulate motor vehicle/motorcycle sales to foreign tourists in Argentina. A few potential foreign tourist motorcycle buyers have contacted me, but I need more names (screen names are OK) and requests for a change in any law that might prohibit foreign tourists from leaving Argentina with their legally purchased and registered Argentine motor vehicle. PLEASE POST YOUR REQUESTS FOR CHANGE AND CLARIFICATION OF THE LAWS ON THIS THREAD. I WILL DO MY PART. Thank you to everyone who has contributed to this thread and thanks as always to the Johnsons, who have brought us together, let us use our unity to make things better. RIDE FREE xfiltrate |
Useful language tools for Motorcycle Adventurers
While skimming the HUBB the other day I found a very useful tool, thanks to Verteran HUBBer DAKOTA who posted in the section: Travelers questions that don't fit anywhere else... English-Spanish-English Dictionary of Motorcycling
It is FREE. the thread is: Dictionary of motorcycling English-Spanish-Inglés-Castellano VETERAN HUBBer XANDER also found similar tools in French, Spanish and German. Hope these valuable communication tools help. Thank you DAKOTA and XANDER! Meanwhile, Elisa and I are leaving Spain and returning home to Buenos Aires in about 2 weeks. Please see my post directly above and if you plan to purchase a new or used motorcycle or vehicle in Argentina as a foreign tourist please post on this thread. AFTER having collected the screen names of 100 potential foreign tourists, I will leverage the list into a review (by politicos in Buenos Aires,) of the confusing regulations "prohibiting or not" the export of a legally registered in Argentina motorcycle or vehicle by its' foreign tourist owner. I cannot do much more alone, I need your help. Remember, a large group of international motorcyclists were able to change the law regarding "Carnets" in Ecuador years ago. Some of the bike manufacturers also got involved and I believe the law was changed by Presidential decree. My goal is to clarify the law in a way that allows foreign tourists to buy new or used in Argentina and then legally exit Argentina with their motorcycle or vehicle. Any HUBBers riding through or around La Coruña (Galicia) north coast of Spain are welcome. We are in a small village, living across the street from one of Spain's most beautiful beaches. 3 cafes below us, and yes, topless is very much in vogue here. Thank you for your help. xfiltrate |
THANKS, we now have 12 potential buyers of bikes/vehicles
If we work together we can effect change! We now have 12, only 88 to go. Well done.
Thank you to everyone who has communicated their interest in purchasing a new or used motorcycle or vehicle in Argentina. Once I have collected 100 screen names, I will present the list to the Government of Argentina with the goal of obtaining a revision/clarification of the law/laws regulating the export of a legally Argentine registered motorcycle/vehicle from Argentina by a foreign tourist. Below is an example of my private com with one of you who have indicated a desire to buy in Argentina. "Thank you for reading my thread on HU, Elisa and I will be pleased to assist you in legally purchasing a camioneta in Argentina. It is done frequently and is not as complicated as most people think. Here is an overview. Secure a "domocillio" certificate issued by your LOCAL police, you must go to the police station assigned to protect your neighborhood in Argentina. 1. The domocillio costs about 10 pesos and is obtained by providing the police your ID (passport) or DNI and address. The next day, a police officer will hand deliver the stamped document to your residence, where you are staying in Argentina, pension, with a friend etc. 2. Take your passport. domocillio to your assigned AFIP office, you will have to find out which office pertains to your residence address, and get a CDI which is a tax number for foreigners , not working in Argentina. This will take about 2 hours, faster if you go early. Cost approximately 10 argentine peso. 3. Investigate auto insurance, so after you purchase and your "gestor" does the paperwork you can give the Vehicle ID and plate # to the insurance agency and you will be immediate covered, so you can drive your camioneta home. DO NOT DRIVE WITHOUT INSURANCE! 4. Call PATRICIA, she is a "gestor," ( who legally transfers titles as a business) she has assisted many foreigners I have sent her with no complaints... Mention that xfiltrate sent you. *please call her at ____________ (office) or cell _________ (Please private message xfiltrate for Patricia's phone numbers) Elisa and I will return to Buenos Aires in a couple weeks. My cell phone is in BA... is (contact xfiltrate by private message) We will be in Spain for two more weeks. My home phone in Spain is ________________ please e-mail or call with any questions. IMPORTANT NOTE: Please do not allow the seller to register your vehicle for you... this could be a scam, use Patricia..., or another qualified gestor. *Once you identify a camioneta you want to buy, have Patricia go with you to inspect the paperwork/documentation provided by the owner. Do not pay any money, not even a deposit without having Patricia inspect the *paperwork and give you the OK. Hope this helps, *A list of documents necessary for the the transfer of a vehicle title is presented earlier in this thread. xfiltrate |
Selling a foreign registered bike in Argentina
Under Travel Bikes for Sale/Wanted .........Few Tips for selling your bike in Buenos Aires thread I have posted the following after asking some questions to the person who started the thread. Please see the thread... xfiltrate
NEW DATA: In very recent com with an Argentine despachante (customs broker), I learned that a foreign registered bike can be legally titled in Argentina, only by the owner listed on the foreign title, and this must be done in person. IMPORTANT At this point in time, it is unclear to me and the despachante (customs broker), if a foreigner entering Argentina on a 3 month tourist visa can legally title his/her foreign registered bike in Argentina. Anyone who has done this, please post here. A legal foreign resident of Argentina, with DNI, can legally register his/her foreign registered bike in Argentina. The process is as follows, an appropriate official of the aduana (customs) assigns a value to the bike and then determines the % of that value to be paid as import duty by the legal foreign owner of the foreign registered bike, not by a buyer or potential buyer. The I.V.A. (tax) is determined and paid, I do not know the I.V.A. % is for 2009, but will endeavor to find out (at least 20%). There are other smaller fees, but I have no verification of what these are, or what percentage of the bike's value is used to determined these fees. The owner must submit the bike to an official safety inspection, prior to registering the bike in Argentina. With the foreign title, registration and plate in hand the owner of the foreign registered bike then proceeds to Argentine motor vehicles, this is not done at the aduana, and exchanges his foreign bike documents for an Argentine title, plate and green card. Remember, insurance must be issued before the bike is legal on the streets. Once the bike is legally registered in Argentina, it can then be legally sold to an Argentine, a resident of Argentina or a foreign tourist. A caution, appointments must be made with aduana (customs) officials, who might or might not, travel to see the bike, for a fee. The down time on this process is indeterminable, my despachante (customs broker) says, once the bike is evaluated by the aduana (customs) prepare for a "substantial" wait for the official written results and other paper work, verification of the original foreign title etc. An *Apostille attached to the title, (*document from State/Country certifying the foreign title is valid, in the USA APOSTILLES are issued by the Department of State of the State in which the bike was titled) may be helpful, this is best secured before leaving the State/Country where the bike is titled. I do not know which government agency issues appostilles for Britain or any other country. xfiltrate |
Good news and a caution...
Thanks to the HUBB we now have 13 motorcycle adventurers,(foreign tourists) who have successfully purchased and legally registered motorcycles in Argentina. The last of the band of 13, #14 has contacted me and several of my contacts are currently actively helping him with the selection of a bike and the transfer of title process. I am still in Spain.
We have a great start. We need only 86 more purchases or written intention of future purchases of motorcycles/vehicles in Argentina by foreign tourists, and an interested member of the Argentine legislature will request a "clarification" of the laws regulating foreign tourists and their legally registered Argentine motorcycles or vehicles. We are well on our way to making it possible for a foreign tourist to exit Argentina with his or her Argentine registered motorcycle or vehicle. If you have any intention of purchasing a motorcycle or vehicle in Argentina please post here. Your screen name and intention to purchase is all that is necessary. Now a caution, for all, and especially those riding through Mexico and Central America. Please carefully review my recent thread entitled: "Need update for Puerto Limón, Costa Rica" Travellers' Advisories, Safety and Security on the Road Ride Free, Eat, Drink and Be Careful and buy insurance damit. xfiltrate |
Good News Update
During the last 3 days, I revisited all my past HUBB related e-mails and have discovered 22 more requests for information regarding the purchase of a motorcycle or vehicle in Argentina by foreign tourists.
We now have 14 + 22 for a total of: 36 foreign tourists expressing interest or who have purchased a motorcycle or vehicle in Argentina. We need only 64 more screen names of foreign tourists expressing interest in purchasing or who have already purchased a motorcycle or vehicle in Argentina. Then, I, with the able assistance of an Argentine lawmaker, will be able to convince the Argentine legislature to clarify the laws regarding a foreign tourist existing Argentina on his or her Argentine registered motorcycle or vehicle. If you are a foreign tourist planning to visit Argentina and have any interest in purchasing a new our used Argentine registered motorcycle or vehicle, please post that interest here. Thanks Life is good, but, not so good in Honduras. please read my Puerto Limón, Costa Rica and Honduras threads in Travellers' Advisories, Safety and Security on the Road Ride Free, Eat, Drink, and Be Careful xfiltrate |
I'm interested!
Hi xfiltrate!
I'm heading out that way and am interested in purchasing a bike, a small honda, xl or xr 125/200/250. I'm just looking into prices and things, however, i'd be looking to ride to the UK and park in a garage (ie off the road) afterwards, not sure how viable this is, just begining my research now, also depends how easy it is to sell a british bike in South africa?! Will keep posted! Kind regards, Nick |
Thank you Klous-1
Hi Klous-1 and a big thank you for posting your interest in purchasing a bike in Argentina. Elisa and I just returned to Buenos Aires after several months in Spain.
I am going to assume that you are heading to Argentina to purchase a motorcycle. You are #37 and now we need only 63 more foreign tourists expressing interest in purchasing a bike or a vehicle in Argentina, so we can attempt to get the exit laws changed that would enable you and every other foreign tourist who has purchased a bike in Argentina to legally exit the country. When you do get to Buenos Aires, please contact us. Yes, if you want to park in Buenos Aires we have parking available. xfiltrate |
Insights into buying or selling in Argentina and a request.
Foreign tourists considering buying or selling in Argentina or Chile, should also read the another thread. This is an ongoing discussion of the complications and risks of selling foreign registered vehicles.
Selling US registered bike in Argentina/Chile? ( 1 2) South and Central America and Mexico The above thread might be very interesting to foreign tourists considering selling or buying a foreign registered bike in Argentina or Chile. Meanwhile, We are still collecting screen names and approximate date of purchase of foreign tourists might be interested in buying an Argentine registered vehicle or motorcycle. We now have 39 such foreign tourists listed (2 new ones from Spain this morning!) and need only 61 more to approach the Argentine legislature regarding a clarification of the law and regulations regarding the export of Argentine registered vehicles or motorcycles, by foreign tourists, for the purpose touring South America and then returning to Argentina and selling or storing the vehicle or motorcycle. To all, the clarification of regulations making it possible for a foreign tourist to temporarily export an Argentine purchased and registered motorcycle for the purpose of touring other south American countries is an achievable goal. We need your help. Eat, Drink, and Be Careful xfiltrate |
hmmm
seems way too complicated
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Applying us american lobbying technics to argentine reality imho have very few chances to work. Like most latin countries, nepotism gets you anything while legal processes get lost into bureacratic mazes.
Your best chance is to know somebody who knows somebody who knows the one temporarely in charge of ruling that area. Or you can block the Libertador Avenue for one month in hope of a governement reaction, but your 100 virtual signatures wont help much in that matter.:eek3: |
Right On!
Vorteks and all, the 100 screen names are for the benefit of those will will benefit from a review and change of the export regulations. Aside from foreign tourists who want to buy new or used in Buenos Aires and tour other South American countries, a review and "clarification" of the export regulations smells very good to several local motorcycle dealers I have approached.
The 100 screen names, a fraction of the increase in potential new/used sales in the future, are the carrot I am using to gain grass roots business support. I agree that the 100 screen names alone, without the support of local businesses, might not have much effect on an unvested politician. And, I take you point of "knowing someone who knows someone etc.", I do know someone who knows thousands of people, and I will enlist his aid very shortly. Stay tuned. Regarding the extension of the Temporary Vehicle Import Permit from 8 months to ONE YEAR, I am very happy to report that several high powered despachantes (read: hard balling with the big boys) "import brokers" here in Buenos Aires are connected to the highest level of Argentine government and my most recent report is that this change is already, or soon will be, in the works, and it might/will probably be that foreign registered motorcycles will be allowed ONE year temporary import to Argentina, and the 8 months for vehicles will remain the same. Oh, the wonders of government, God Bless the red tape, it sometimes serves the cause of freedom. The National Geographic documentary "The Ride," (played locally on TV) Che's "Motorcycle Diaries," (Che is a national hero of Argentina) Ewen and Charley adventures (humorous) and Grant and Susan's "The Achievable Dream" (BUY A COPY NOW on HU Home Page) have all been cards I have played locally. And, last but not least, there is the beloved "DAKAR"..... earlier this year, and next.... (rivaling the gaucho in popularity) Thanks for your input. We are about to launch these 2 ideas big time, please do stay tuned and keep the ideas coming. Eat , Drink and Be Careful xfiltrate |
Quote:
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Monitors, I realize this is off topic, but it is important for anyone who visits Cent
Diasdeplay, amigo, yeah but he rode a Norton...... and somehow claiming that Che is a "Provincial Hero" rather than "National Hero" seemed to dramatically under mind the truth of the matter.
2008 - Rosario, the city in Argentina where Guevara was born, recognises its most famous son on 14 June, the 80th anniversary of Guevara's birthday, with the unveiling of a 3.6 metre bronze statue of the dead revolutionary. 2000 - 'Time' magazine names Guevara as one of the 100 most influential people of the 20th Century. "Though communism may have lost its fire, he remains the potent symbol of rebellion and the alluring zeal of revolution," the magazine states. As a National Hero of Argentina, Che is regarded as a revolutionary, not particularly a Communist. His participation in revolutionary activities pale when compared with the multitude of coups and revolutions planned and funded by intelligence agencies of the United States at the command of US and multinational corporations. Amigo, you write from Chile.. How can you possibly believe that Capitalistic causes are not forwarded by terrorists too? Oh yeah, Amigo, I forgot to mention the permanent and well funded museum in Alta Gracia, Argentina dedicated to Che Guevara, his ideals and his life. You might want to visit this museum to understand what Che Guevara represents to the Argentine people, and why and who hunted him down and murdered him in cold blood, in Bolivia. Speaking of Democracy, Honduras, and... Dear Friends, In writing my new book Hoodwinked (Random House, November 2009 publication date), I recently visited Central America. Everyone I talked with there was convinced that the military coup that had overthrown the democratically-elected president of Honduras, Manuel Zelaya, had been engineered by two US companies, with CIA support. And that the US and its new president were not standing up for democracy. Earlier in the year Chiquita Brands International Inc. (formerly United Fruit) and Dole Food Co had severely criticized Zelaya for advocating an increase of 60% in Honduras’s minimum wage, claiming that the policy would cut into corporate profits. They were joined by a coalition of textile manufacturers and exporters, companies that rely on cheap labor to work in their sweatshops. Memories are short in the US, but not in Central America. I kept hearing people who claimed that it was a matter of record that Chiquita (United Fruit) and the CIA had toppled Guatemala’s democratically-elected president Jacobo Arbenz in 1954 and that International Telephone & Telegraph (ITT), Henry Kissinger, and the CIA had brought down Chile’s Salvador Allende in 1973. These people were certain that Haiti’s president Jean-Bertrand Aristide had been ousted by the CIA in 2004 because he proposed a minimum wage increase, like Zelaya’s. I was told by a Panamanian bank vice president, “Every multinational knows that if Honduras raises its hourly rate, the rest of Latin America and the Caribbean will have to follow. Haiti and Honduras have always set the bottom line for minimum wages. The big companies are determined to stop what they call a ‘leftist revolt’ in this hemisphere. In throwing out Zelaya, they are sending frightening messages to all the other presidents who are trying to raise the living standards of their people.” It did not take much imagination to envision the turmoil sweeping through every Latin American capital. There had been a collective sign of relief at Barack Obama’s election in the U.S., a sense of hope that the empire in the North would finally exhibit compassion toward its southern neighbors, that the unfair trade agreements, privatizations, draconian IMF Structural Adjustment Programs, and threats of military intervention would slow down and perhaps even fade away. Now, that optimism was turning sour. The cozy relationship between Honduras’s military coup leaders and the corporatocracy were confirmed a couple of days after my arrival in Panama. England’s The Guardian ran an article announcing that “two of the Honduran coup government's top advisers have close ties to the US secretary of state. One is Lanny Davis, an influential lobbyist who was a personal lawyer for President Bill Clinton and also campaigned for Hillary. . . The other hired gun for the coup government that has deep Clinton ties is (lobbyist) Bennett Ratcliff.” (1) DemocracyNow! broke the news that Chiquita was represented by a powerful Washington law firm, Covington & Burling LLP, and its consultant, McLarty Associates (2). President Obama’s Attorney General Eric Holder had been a Covington partner and a defender of Chiquita when the company was accused of hiring “assassination squads” in Colombia (Chiquita was found guilty, admitting that it had paid organizations listed by the US government as terrorist groups “for protection” and agreeing in 2004 to a $25 million fine). (3) George W. Bush’s UN Ambassador, John Bolton, a former Covington lawyer, had fiercely opposed Latin American leaders who fought for their peoples’ rights to larger shares of the profits derived from their resources; after leaving the government in 2006, Bolton became involved with the Project for the New American Century, the Council for National Policy, and a number of other programs that promote corporate hegemony in Honduras and elsewhere. McLarty Vice Chairman John Negroponte was U.S. Ambassador to Honduras from 1981-1985, former Deputy Secretary of State, Director of National Intelligence, and U.S. Representative to the United Nations; he played a major role in the U.S.-backed Contra’s secret war against Nicaragua’s Sandinista government and has consistently opposed the policies of the democratically-elected pro-reform Latin American presidents. (4) These three men symbolize the insidious power of the corporatocracy, its bipartisan composition, and the fact that the Obama Administration has been sucked in. The Los Angeles Times went to the heart of this matter when it concluded: What happened in Honduras is a classic Latin American coup in another sense: Gen. Romeo Vasquez, who led it, is an alumnus of the United States' School of the Americas (renamed the Western Hemisphere Institute for Security Cooperation). The school is best known for producing Latin American officers who have committed major human rights abuses, including military coups. (5) All of this leads us once again to the inevitable conclusion: you and I must change the system. The president – whether Democrat or Republican – needs us to speak out. Chiquita, Dole and all your representatives need to hear from you. Zelaya must be reinstated. John Footnotes (1) “Who's in charge of US foreign policy? The coup in Honduras has exposed divisions between Barack Obama and his secretary of state, Hillary Clinton” by Mark Weisbrot Eat, Drink and Be Careful xfiltrate |
No national hero here Eduard
I would like no political comments here Ed,a friend once told me many years,the best way to keep a friendship is to avoid talking of politics and soccer! hahahahaha
Ernesto Guevara is no hero in Argentina,is just a celebrity or fashionable icon for T-shirts and stickers. He is of course a hughe hero and icon in cuban culture. I am not moderator or so i am just letting know my point of view here.Ideologies......you know are fuel for long and never ending debates. Karl:thumbup1: |
May we no longer be strangers...
Karl, my commentary and the letter was not intended as political ramblings, but rather in the spirit of the artist, Mr Zeneri, who sculpted a 4 meter high, 3.5 ton bronze statue of Che, without weapons, from doorknobs, fire pokers, plaques, and an estimated 75,000 door keys donated from 14,000 people around Argentina and the world. People who considered Che a hero... and decided upon Rosario, Argentina as the appropriate city for the statue.
Many of the donated keys belonged to the victims of Argentina's military dictatorship of the late 1970s and early 1980s. Las Madres de la Plaza de Mayo participated in the statue's inauguration. And, as one who has visited Che's museum in Alta Gracia, Argentina, my commentary was an attempt to encourage fellow travelers to do the same. Ideologies aside, Che has influenced hundreds of millions of people worldwide and more than a few Argentines. Karl, my point is contemporary and possibly futuristic. Che was reduced to a pop culture icon once the economy of Argentina began to recover from the dictators, and indeed many Argentines blamed Argentine youth emulating Che as the trigger that allowed the dictators to crack down. But, as the economic recovery of Argentina slows, and the politics of democratically elected leaders of other South American countries changes, many Argentines are once again looking beyond Che's berets, bumper stickers and millions of T-shirts in an attempt to discover their own identity and beliefs. Karl please know that I do understand that heros and terrorists are created from the point of view of a particular ideology. This was my point to Diasdeplaya. Here is my ideology and hopefully we can agree, without a never ending argument. It is OK with me if you do not agree. A hero is someone who helps others (humanity) survive without the use of violence. There are many brave soldiers, but as I am learning, from writers like *John Perkins (Hoodwinked) and (Confessions of an Economic Hit Man) heros are few. Eat Drink and Be Careful xfiltrate *read letter in previous post.... www.Xfiltrate.com - Professional Motorcycle Parking - Professional Motorcycle Parking Buenos Aires, Argentina |
Xfiltrate, if you wanted to render the original stated purpose of this thread valueless, you could not accomplish this more effectively than by diverting it into a debate over Che, capitalism, revolution, terrorism.....
If, on the other hand, you wished to pursue your avowed aim of effecting legislative change by enlisting support here on the Hubb, you'd probably resist the temptation to drag Che (or any of the rest) into the discussion. Valued at: precisely $0.02. Mark |
Good Point!
Mark, it is not as if I mentioned Kraft Foods or anything Argentine decision makers don't already know, discussed and have wondered about.
And, I am not going to change anything other than increase the awareness of key people in the legislature here regarding a potential increase in tourism and motorcycle sales. My role is to be in good communication with those who might change legislation here by providing accurate data that might influence their decision. The key players know who I am, what I stand for and who I represent. The last thing my Argentine political contacts want or need is another dumbed down self serving lackey. No, I represent myself to them, as I am, just as I will continue to do here. Thanks for your thoughts on the matter. And, by the way you know anyone who might want to buy new or used in Argentina? Or perhaps anyone who might want to be able to get an Argentine temporary vehicle import permit for one year instead of the current 8 months? Eat, Drink and Be Careful xfiltrate www.Xfiltrate.com - Professional Motorcycle Parking - Professional Motorcycle Parking Buenos Aires, Argentina |
Have to hand it to you Ed, youre one switched on DUde :thumbup1:
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[quote=xfiltrate;260335] And, by the way you know anyone who might want to buy new or used in Argentina?
Not unless my KLR goes belly-up somewhere between here (central Chihuahua) and yon (Patagonia)......which seemed a stronger possibility last week than it does currently. FWIW, authenticity doesn't necessarily conflict with efficiency, productivity, effectiveness or anything else worth being. But that's just my perspective. Mark |
Hello Man!! thank you so much for the help!!!
ill be landing in Santiago chile in may and i will go straight to Argentina were i want to start my journey and i want to buy a motorbike!!! I'm sooo interested!!! :)!!! |
Welcome
gusonopa looking forward to meeting you. you are now on the list of many who have expressed interest in buying a motorcycle in Argentina.
We of the Buenos Aires HUBB community will help all we can. stand by for a big update regarding my attempt to persuade the Argentine legislature to review the law that currently prohibits foreign tourists from legally exiting Argentina on their legally purchased and Argentine registered motorcycle. A woman is flying in from Hong Kong very soon and is in the process pf purchasing a new Honda here. You will not be alone. Eat, Drink and Be Careful xfiltrate |
Hello,
I’m Derek from Warsaw. Poland. Myself and my American-Polish friend from N.Y.C. are planning on a trip in South America starting from Buenos Aires on the beginning of 2010. Thus, we would like to purchase bikes over there if possible. …now I’m going to read this thread from its beginning… ;-) Thanks. "Mucha" |
Thanks for the interest
Derek, good plan, a woman is flying in next week, from Hong Kong to buy a new Honda, she will tour Argentina for about 6 weeks and the dealer will buy back her Honda if it is still under Honda warranty 12,000 K.
More adventurers are buying new here in February.... You can do the same, the bigger new bikes here require some advance notice, to be sure the bike is available when you arrive. Plan minimum 2 days to get your "domocilio" police verified residence, and another day to get your CDI (tax number) the dealer will handle getting you a green card, title and plates for the bike - 5 days or less. And I look forward to meeting you, Elisa and I met because of a man from Poland who was staying at my ranch in the States. Eat, Drink and Be Careful xfiltrate |
An idea worth considering...
Christine, a beautiful blond woman originally from Wales, but currently residing in Hong Kong, has arrived in Buenos Aires. She had pre ordered a new Honda from a trusted authorized Honda dealer in Buenos Aires.
Monday: Christine arrives Buenos Aires, checks into her residence, and locates the nearest police station where, with her passport and exact address of her residence applies for a "domocillio," one of the 2 documents required of foreign tourists to purchase a new or used motorcycle in Argentina. Then she rested. Tuesday: Tuesday was a holiday in Argentina, and Christine toured the city. Wednesday: Christine's "domocillio" was hand delivered, by police to her residence. She immediately went to the local AFIP office presented her passport and "domocillio," applied for and received a CDI, tax number, the other of the 2 documents required for foreign tourists to purchase an Argentine registered motorcycle. With "domocillio" "CDI" and passport in hand Christine visited the Honda dealer, inspected her new Honda, that was out of the crate and assembled, paid the dealer and completed all paperwork necessary for an Argentine title, registration, plates and green card. A Gestor, (one who transfers vehiicle titles as a business) employed by the Honda dealer will do all the leg work necessary for the documentation of Christine's motorcycle. Thurday: Christine has a play day in Buenos Aires Friday: Christine has another play day and shops for some touring gear. Saturday: Christine receives a phone call from the Gestor, who advises her that one more signature is needed and he invites her to his office. Christine provides the needed signature and has another play day and night in Buenos Aires. Sunday: Christine dropped by our apartment and Elisa and I assisted her with route planning and tips for touring Argentina. *Jeff Condon, Globebuster's guide recently arrived Buenos Aires leading a group of 20 BMWs from Alaska also dropped by and helped orient Christine for her upcoming motorcycle tour of Argentina. * 2 years ago we assisted Jeff Condon in purchasing a used Argentine registered bright yellow Citroen 3cv. His story can be read at the beginning of this thread. Wednesday: Christine will have all paperwork in hand, insure her new Honda and ride it over to a trusted mechanic, who that same day will custom build racks for her gear. Thursday: Christine will saddle up and begin her tour of Argentina. As Buenos Aires HUBB Community members, Elisa and I have enjoyed meeting and helping Christine buy new in Buenos Aires. We look forward to many more of you making the decision to buy new or used in Buenos Aires and then touring Argentina. Eat, Drink and Be Careful xfiltrate |
It would be interesting to find out costs to compare with shipping your own bike, which is the most common solution. Your report only shows the 10 days time frame.
I d like to get the address of the mechanic who builds custom racks too, i have some work for him. |
To Ship or To Buy? That is the Question!
Vorteks, before answering your question, I commend YOU, CRUZ, mailking, panhandle1300, Bjorn, and Mafra for the wealth of well researched, accurate and interesting information you have provided on CRUZ's thread:
Buenos Aires destination charges ( 1 2 3) South and central America and Mexico The thread has been awarded a "sticky" by Grant and Susan founders of HU! The quality and informative nature of that post is what makes the HUBB very valuable to adventure motorcyclists considering shipping into Buenos Aires. Thank You. And, thank you for your past contributions to this thread and your current excellent question. I will do my best to help you with an analysis of the a cost difference between shipping your own bike into Buenos Aires or legally buying a new or used Argentine registered motorcycle in Buenos Aires. Horizonsunlimited.com, and rightly so, restricts unapproved advertising, so I will provide a simple, but accurate example of costs for buying anyone of 3 different Argentine registered Honda motorcycles new in Buenos Aires. Specific comment should be addressed to Elisa or I through our web site: www.Xfiltrate.com - Professional Motorcycle Parking. (also listed below), for which I have been authorized by HU to publish on this and other HUBB threads. Honda NXR 125cc BROS $3,100.00 USD + $200.00 USD title, plates, taxes, etc. Honda XR 250cc TORNADO $4,800.00 USD + $300.00 USD title, plates, taxes, etc. Honda NX 400cc FALCON $7,000.00 USD + $500.00 USD title, plates, taxes, etc. All three motorcycles are dual purpose and suitable for touring Argentina. Estimated cost for title, plates, taxes, etc. might be less, but not more! The trusted Honda dealer has offered a buy back deal if the motorcycle has less than 12,000 K and the buy back occurs within one year of purchase. The dealer will consider the buy back of all new Honda purchases with more than 12,000 K and beyond the one year warranty. EXAMPLE ONE: Buy a new Honda NX400 FALCON in Buenos Aires, tour Argentina for 3 months and the dealer will buy back the motorcycle for approximately 80% of the purchase price. You pocket approximately $5,600.00 USD of your $7,000.00 cost. Your cost of a new Honda NX 400 FALCON for a 3 month tour of Argentina is approximately $1,400.00 USD. EXample TWO: if you purchase a new Honda NXR 125 BROS for $3,100.00 USD the dealer will buy it back for approximately $2,500.00 USD and the cost of your new Honda NXR 125 for a 3 month tour of Argentina is only $600.00 USD. The Honda TRANSALP is no longer manufactured in Spain. It might soon be manufactured in Brazil like the Hondas listed above, and it too will have the advantage of the MERCOSUR trade agreement and be offered in Buenos Aires at a substantially lower price. Honda parts are readily available throughout Argentina and the cost of repair and parts is substantially lower than it would be for "imported" EU motorcycles. All new Hondas are sold with a 12,000 K / one year comprehensive warranty, authorized at any Honda dealer. If you decide to keep your new motorcycle, your Argentine registered motorcycle may be parked/stored in Argentina forever, without any special permit or time limits. You are authorized to leave Argentina without your Argentine registered motorcycle and may legally sell it to an Argentine or to foreign tourists. Post Script: If it had not been for the Argentine holiday all documentation of Christine's new Honda would have been accomplished within 9 (nine) days, including the weekend! Please private message me for the name and address of my trusted rack man. Eat, Drink, and Be Careful xfiltrate |
Ok, to make it concise, if we take the example of the honda 400 compared to shipping a motorcycle :
Buying local and reselling : 10 days and around 2000 USD for less than 12K km. Travelling limited to Argentina. Bringing your own : 5 days, forth and back around 2000 USD depending on the country of origin. Border crossing illimited. No mileage limit. You might be able to sell your vehicule to reduce cost, but illegal in most countries. Reasons to buy local : less hassle with transport. More confort. Reasons to import : More choice of motorcycles. Will to explore the whole continent. Am i mistaken? |
They will ride, one way or another...
Vortexts, I understand your point of view.
My purpose is to attract an ever increasing number of foreign tourists who purchase a motorcycle/vehicle in Argentina for the purpose of touring Argentina and all of South America. Today, a foreign tourist can legally purchase a new or used Argentine registered motorcycle and the legally sell to an Argentine, a permanent resident of Argentina or to another foreign tourist. The process of buying new is simple and requires about 10 days. In Example One, the Honda NX 400 Falcon, I have noticed that to arrive at your figure of $2,000.00, you added the cost of title, plates, taxes etc to the cost $1,400.00 USD cost of the NX 400. In fairness, an imported foreign bike must be registered somewhere, so the cost of title, plates, taxes etc. is a wash and should not be considered in this particular cost analysis. There is no "milage limit" restriction for a foreign tourist to sell her/his Argentine registered motorcycle. In the examples above the dealer will make an offer, but not promise the buy back of a bike purchased new with more than 12,000 K or one year. The foreign tourist also has the option of selling the bike on the very hot Buenos Aires market for used bikes with legal documentation, no matter how many K or age of the bike. It is possible to sell a used bike in good condition for 90% or more of the price the foreign tourist paid to buy it used. Without paying very heavy import taxes, and registering the imported bike in the country of sale, it is not legal for a foreign tourist to sell a foreign registered bike, (USA, EU, Australia, Germany etc) in South America, this by international agreement. Doing so voids all insurance coverage for seller and buyer and is risking criminal prosecution for a number of crimes. BMWs, and the majority of motorcycles available in Europe or in the United States are available new in Buenos Aires, it is a matter, as always, of money. As previously explained in this thread. Current Argentine law/regulations prohibit a foreign tourist from exporting (cross an Argentine border) with her/his legally purchased Argentine registered motorcycle unless an Argentine or permanent resident of Argentina is named on the title as co-owner of the motorcycle. The Argentine or permanent resident of Argentina can legally export an Argentine registered motorcycle (cross a border). Once the co-owner crosses the motorcycle out of Argentina the foreign tourist can legally be named on the Temporary Vehicle Import Permit of the adjoining country and continue her/his tour of all other South American countries and then legally return the motorcycle to Argentina. Also described in this thread are my efforts to have the legislature of Argentina re-interpret and change current law/regulations. Tomorrow, it may well be possible for a foreign tourist to apply for an Argentine Temporary Vehicle Export Permit and tour all of South America without the need for an Argentine or permanent resident of Argentina co-owner. Toward this goal I have documented a large number of foreign tourists who would purchase locally if they could exit Argentina with their Argentine registered motorcycle. I have the endorsement of several motorcycle dealers in Buenos Aires, a couple of legislators and I will keep trying to present the idea to President "Christina" Kirchner. If explained properly, to the government of Argentina, it is logical that these restrictions will be lifted. Meanwhile, those who plan to explore Argentina by motorcycle during a number of separate vacation visits, can have their Argentine registered motorcycle waiting for them stored/parked in Buenos Aires and hit the road the same day their plane lands or their ship docks. Over and over and over again, forever. In conclusion, some adventure motorcyclists will ship their bikes, others will buy in country, You and I and others of the HUBB are helping. Thanks Eat, Drink and Be Careful xfiltrate |
Eduard
I still have my concerns about the "co-ownership" with an argie.This will bound the argie also as "co-responsable" in case of accident or any kind of legal trouble.I think its not an superficial act to "find! or "hooking" someone here for such enterprise. I have to many "what ifs" on this particular subject. Also remember that by buying a bike taxes are bounded to a bike too.So storing for ever means having someone with money paying those taxes for you as long the bike is being parked(also extra cost in the end from parking it)...... Maybe Vorteks is having a logical sense here. Importing,riding out and travelling with your trustie bike, going home and show it to friends:scooter:. I personaly like more the "old fashioned" traveller who brings his bike with and RTW with it ,instead of the ocationaly tourist who decided to drop by. Its my personal view,nothing against bike "tourists".... Karl:thumbup1: |
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I m not saying that Argentines are dishonest by nature, but this is a harsh environment (3rd world salaries, 1rst world costs in B.As). Necessity sometimes forces people into betrayal. I have no preference between shipping and a buy back deal. Both have similar costs and risks. You can also leave your bike in a friends place and it might "vanish" too. I m just trying to sum up both solutions advantages and drawbacks. When i toured Australia, i used Kurt Weider s rental service. I could rent a fully prepared Yamaha XTE for 2000 AUD for up to 6 month, which was 10 AUD/day. I regret rental costs in South America are so high and that nobody ever thought about making a decent offer for mid term travellers. |
Ship in or Buy in country?
Vorteks, I am sorry to learn of your friend's loss. Please advise him that Argentine law prohibits his legal Argentine co owner (the gardener) from legally selling the boat without your friend also presenting identification and signing transfer documents.
Unlike many States of the United States and other countries, there is no "or" feature on Argentine vehicle/vessel titles, only "and." So the boat still legally belongs to your friend and his gardener. Your friend can report the boat stolen. If the boat is recovered by police,your friend is still a legal owner of the boat. Hope this helps. BCK_973, Argentine law has changed, it is now possible to pay Argentine registered motorcycle taxes on a yearly, not only quarterly basis. I do agree that the foreign tourist owner should learn about Pago Facil and make arrangements for the payment of the motorcycle taxes when they become due. I am not yet sure where I stand on the ship in or buy in country question. I do know that the presentation of different points of view by those who have on the ground experience is helpful to many who read here. Thanks Eat, Drink and Be Careful xfiltrate |
Update on Christine and her new Honda
Good news about Christine, the woman who arrived Buenos Aires from Hong Kong, Monday, 07dec09 2 short weeks ago.
Early Saturday morning 19dec09, she departed Buenos Aires on her brand new Argentine registered Honda. Jeff, an Alaska - Argentina motorcycle guide, escorted her 50 K out of the city and with a "ride hard, ride free" over lander goodbye watched her ride toward the horizon. She picked up her new Honda with plates and documents Wednesday exactly 10 days after her arrival. She laid over Thursday and Friday while a world class rack man built custom racks for her soft panniers, wet bag etc. Elisa and I, Buenos Aires HUBB community members and RTW Jeff, enjoyed Christine's company and dinner as her guest at an Armenian restaurant in Buenos Aires. She is delightful. Christine has posted a message in the Woman's Topics forum "Woman buys new Honda in Buenos Aires" thread regarding her purchase of a new Argentine registered Honda in Buenos Aires. Eat, Drink and Be Careful |
Welcome gusonopa
Bienvenitos gusonopa, sounds like you did make it to Buenos Aires.
Yes, custom panniers are available in Buenos Aires. Due to the HUBBs logical marketing restrictions I will not say more. You will have to private message me. Did you buy a bike yet? We of the HUBB Buenos Aires community stand ready to help you, if needed, we are only an e-mail away. Anything Argentine, including panniers is welcome on this thread. No worries mate. Eat, Drink and Be Careful xfiltrate |
Hi All!
I'm a little unclear on something. I know that as a foreigner I can't leave with a legally purchased used Argentine bike. However, an uncle of mine (born and bread in the Argentine) can be a co-owner with me. My question is that when I want to leave, does he have to be there at the border crossing? Also, if driving down south where crossing back and forth would be probable, would that be a problem? Ed we've been in email contact but I thought I'd drop this note on the forum because I saw you online. I'm sure I'll give you a call soonish though as I'm currently in Venado Tuerto but will be in BA in not too long. Thanks in advance for any help! Kelv |
You have an Argentine uncle que suerte!
Kelvination, I was just in Venado Tuerto trailing the Dakar. We might have been there the same time.
My understanding is that if your Argentine uncle is legally added as a co owner on the title of your legal Argentine registered motorcycle, that he has the right to secure a Temporary Export Permit for the motorcycle at any border of Argentina. Yes, he must do this in person. After I became a permanent foreign resident of Argentina, I was permitted to export Elisa's legally registered Argentine motorcycle to Uruguay, because I am on the title as co owner. Elisa had not received her permanent foreign residence status. I noticed that Buque Bus does not bother with the formality of a Temporary Export Permit for Argentine registered bikes, but other borders might. Your uncle might be asked when he is returning the motorcycle to Argentina, and he might not, this is difficult to predict because some borders are more observant of this formality than others. Once you leave Argentina, your Argentine title and your green card "tarjeta verde" plus your Mercosur or other insurance, should meet the standards for Temporary Vehicle Import Permits for all other South American countries. Remember you will be required to return your Argentine registered motorcycle before the expiration date on the Temporary Export permit, this document may or may not be requested at the borders of other South American countries. As you may have noticed, I am trying to keep all who read HUBB posts updated on this particular topic. I will add here, that I am advising you to the best of my ability, but I am not an official of Argentina. On other threads I have posted the actual laws and regulations pertinent to a wide range of topics, but this is not the case here. So, I do suggest you check with the aduana/customs/border officials to verify all that I suggest here. Laws and regulations are subject to periodic change. And, please if you find out anything different, post that information on this thread. Looking forward to seeing you in Buenos Aires Eat, Drink and Be Careful xfiltrate |
Just brought bike in argentina and need some help getting paperwork
Hi
i am a new Zealander i have been in argentina for 2 months now living in San Antonio De Areco and have brought myself a honda XR250 tornado off a local bike dealer. the bike already has plates and i have been issued with a green card through a local lawyer. I dont speek spanish and am not sure what papers they have given me. What i really want to do is ride it around south america but since learnt that it could be a problem getting out of argentina. do you have any advice on these problems? Thanks nick |
Hi Nick
Maybe you should has ask before doing paper transfers..... Its logical to think that the former argie owner was looking to do the transfer ASAP.Its a responsabilty problem.Because he could have done with notary an authorization to you for exiting Argentina.Very easy. But now its late. I pointed this issue before here but was not propperly understood. Don´t know how you can solve this matter now. Have you been afected bu the floodings there?Terrible thing what? Karl |
[quote=Vorteks;268402]Risks do exist, for both co owners. The american owner of the house where i m staying in Buenos Aires wanted to buy a boat for weekend exploring. For whatever legal reason, he couldnt buy one directly. He offered his gardener co ownership. The gardener prefered to sell and cash the boat than to keep a long term friendly relationship with his employer.
I m not saying that Argentines are dishonest by nature, but this is a harsh environment (3rd world salaries, 1rst world costs in B.As). Necessity sometimes forces people into betrayal. I have no preference between shipping and a buy back deal. Both have similar costs and risks. You can also leave your bike in a friends place and it might "vanish" too. I m just trying to sum up both solutions advantages and drawbacks. Hi Phillipe Not only the comercial issues as you told, i pointed before the legal nigthmare of an accident or crime. Imagine you are involved in serious accident,killing someone on the street.By law both parties are responsable(argie coowner and rider).You could/will drag the argie coowner into a legal problem. I would say that asking that favor to an allmost unkown person is to high. I think that the most used way of importing your own bike and exiting it is still the best choice. I would dare to rate it to 95% of the cases.Rest is rental and buying here and touring as suggested on the tred title. Karl |
Exiting Argentina
nickberkett, BCK_973 gives good advice, if the bike you recently purchased has Argentine plates, and if you bought it from a local dealer and were given a "green card" for the bike, it is Argentine registered, and you as a foreign tourist probably will not be permitted to ride the bike out of Argentina.
As mentioned, with an Argentine co owner - also issued a green card, the Argentine co owner could exit the bike from Argentina. Then, you would be legal to continue into the adjoining country and be issued a Temporary Vehicle Import Permit. Returning the bike to Argentina should not be a problem, legally. Although, BCK_973 (Karl) is right again regarding the shared liability.... if you had a serious accident with personal injury, death or substantial property damage, your co owner could also be held responsible in a court of law. *There might be a way to petition the aduana (customs) if you have a "domocillio" or residence certified by local police (2 day easy process) in Argentina to issue you a Temporary Vehicle Export Permit. I was issued a Temporary Vehicle Export Permit at Paso de Hama - Andes crossing into Chile while still legally a foreign tourist in Argentina and while riding my legally owned Argentine registered bike. It could have been the border official was just being very kind to us, as Paso de Hama was very cold, and a long way from Buenos Aires. I have not heard of any other foreign tourist being issued such a permit, but maybe no one asked??? If anyone knows more about Temporary Vehicle Export Permits issued to foreign tourists in Argentina, for the purpose of temporary export of their legally owned Argentine registered motorcycle, PLEASE POST HERE. There was a time limit on the Temporary Vehicle Export Permit which indicated when I was required by law, to return the bike to Argentina. It might be worth a try? Hope this helps. One other idea is to get a cell phone, advertise your bike, start taking offers, but explain that the bike will not be for sale until you finish your tour of Argentina, sell your bike in Argentina, then enter Chile, buy a bike there, tour Chile, sell the bike in Chile, go to the next country etc. etc. etc. If you are cleaver you might end up your tour of South America with more money than you spent on the bike you bought in Argentina. Eat, Drink, and Be Careful xfiltrate |
2 new Hondas beign purchased in Buenos Aires..by a foreign couple
An update, we are still touring. currently in Cafayate, Agentina.
Good news a foreign couple are buying 2 Hondas (new) in Buenos Aires.... I always like to report those who are buying Argentine registered bikes in Argentina. Buenas Rutas... Eat, Drink and Be Careful |
Leaving Argentina, details?
I have my US bike here in Argentina and I plan have my brother ride it back up to the states. I plan to change the title over to his name so that when he crosses into Chile he can have start anew. Question: what exactly does one have to do when leaving Argentina? In other countries I merely handed the customs official my paperwork and that was it. I figure my brother could do the same and once in chile he will check in w his title on the bike. Am I missing something? Is it NOT that simple?
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You will need to get your TVIP cancelled with your name on it, then he will need to be with the bike to get into the next border crossing and he will need a Title in his name, then he gets issued with a TVIP in his name, all pretty easy
Cheers TS |
cost
of course the other thing that no one has mentioned is the 75% tax on vehicles over 200cc....alternatively, one could buy my US registered Harley and ride where you like, with no passengers!
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Tax Question
harleydan, not sure what bike purchase in Argentina... has a 75% tax?
Bikes, like the Hondas manufactured in Brazil, and purchased by foreign tourists in Argentina have very minimal tax, registration fees etc, not even close to 75% of cost of bike. The tax is between 5% and 10%, if the bike is purchased new or as described here with Zero Kilometers. If you are referring to importing a foreign registered bike and registering it in Argentina your 75% import tariff sounds about right.* *Each Argentine and Permanent Foreign Resident of Argentina, with DNI, is permitted to import one foreign registered vehicle. As far as I know, foreign tourists are not permitted to register their foreign registered bikes in Argentina, even if they are willing to pay the import tariff. If anyone knows more about this topic please post. I am returned from my ride to Cafayate, Salta. Great trip. I learned much about the Argentina aduana during my trip. I had the very good fortune to meet a retired official of the aduana. He explained that, while I might be surprised that much of what the aduana does or does not do is, in fact, negotiable, there is good reason and tradition behind this fact. In the early days, when the Spanish were collecting tariffs on all goods coming into or going out of Argentina, Buenos Aries was like a pueblo, until the port was established and ships began unloading and loading cargo in Buenos Aires to avoid the ports controlled by the Spaniards. In the early days...there was little or no industry in Buenos Aires at this time and little agriculture when compared to the colonized and developed north of Argentina. So Buenos Aires was financed by the tariffs collected on the contraband goods that were imported and exported via the port. I call the goods, as did the aduana official, "contraband" simply because they were goods that would be taxed by the Spanish if they were imported or exported through Spanish controlled ports. So, now I understand. The aduana has the great distinction and wonderful tradition of financing, what has become, one of the greatest cities in the world, the Capital Federal. Without the aduana, Buenos Aires would not be the world class city it is today. I finally got it! Now when I speak with Argentines, I full well understand their point of view regarding the aduana. Eat, Drink and Be Careful xfiltrate |
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Anyway must pay import taxes (75% or more) and prove that quit to the foreign residence and the vehicle belong to him for a certain time. All others, normal resident natives or foreigners have forbidden to import any vehicle and register it, only formal importers legally registered in Customs and Tax offices can import ONLY brand new vehicles. Permanent import of any USED vehicle is completely prohibited. Completely different matter is as a normal Traveller brings their own vehicle as a temporary import and signs a compromise to take it out of the country. Apologize if I’m not copy exactly the words of the law. I know this for my wife experience working with customs every day. That’s why so many people (included myself) says this thread is useless and complicate, is full of misunderstandings and completely wrong information… |
Sometimes differences of opinion are good.
Hi javkap, hope you enjoyed the Dakar. The Irish team finished, and I am in Spain now and will soon visit the Irish team in Ireland. We will lift a few pints, I suppose.
I understand and respect your position regarding my last post. But perhaps a review of the actual law might help you understand what I have posted on this thread. While I welcome your comments I do not agree that my last post "is completely wrong." Here are two different descriptions (in English) of the importation laws for Argentine citizens, who have resided abroad... I was writing of "returning Argentine citizens", not all Argentine citizens, sorry , i omitted the word returning.... I should have clarified that.... and I was writing of foreigners with permanent foreign resident status, regarding the importation and nationalization of vehicles and motorcycles. I have verified what is written below with a reputable Argentine despachante very recently. Yes, a returning Argentine, within certain time limits, can import one used foreign registered vehicle or motorcyle and so can each foreigner with permanent foreign resident status. Thanks for your comments. .. Cars and Motorcycles: Returning Argentine citizens: The importation of vehicles for Argentine citizens will be allowed if customer has been living overseas/abroad for more than 1 year and they have not returned to Argentina for more than 60 days within that period. (Customer will pay import taxes and duties). Foreign citizens: The importation of vehicles for foreign citizens, will be allowed if customer has obtained his «permanent resident visa». (Customer will pay import taxes and duties). Documents required for the definitive importation: . Original certificate of residence issued by the Argentine Consulate. (Argentine returning citizens) . Original title deed or certificate of vehicle from country or state of residence. . Original invoice. Foreigners with temporary visa: If temporary visa is obtained, the vehicle may be imported temporarily. No duties or taxes would be paid on such temporary import. The period under current regulations may be extended for an additional period. If a permanent visa is granted, the vehicle may be nationalized, converting the temporary import into a final importation. In such case it will pay import taxes and duties. Documents required for the temporary importation: . Original title deed or certificate of vehicle from country or state of residence . Original invoice. IMPORTANT: Only 1 (one) automobile or motorcycle can be imported by persons over 21 years old persons. Original title deed or certificate and original invoice, must be at the name of consignee. ARGENTINE CUSTOMS REGULATIONS FOR IMPORTATION OF VEHICLES DIPLOMATS are able to import used or new cars with a Diplomatic Franchise issued by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. RETURNING ARGENTINE CITIZENS may import used vehicles only, under the same rules that apply to Argentine citizens returning. PERSONS WITH PERMANENT RESIDENT STATUS may import used vehicles only, under the same rules that apply to Argentine citizens returning. PERSONS WITH TEMPORARY VISA may import used cars under temporary admission. The car is only allowed temporary admission for the same period the client has the Visa and can be renewed if the client renews the Visa. Before the visa expires, the vehicle must be removed from Argentina. VEHICLE MUST KEEP THE ORIGINAL PLATES. General Requirements: Car must enter Argentina within (6) six months after shipper/owner arrival. Vehicle and its documentation must be under shipper's name. Importation of new cars is subject to Ministry of Commerce regulations and is limited to certain types of vehicles. New vehicles can not be imported as part of the move Documentation Required for Argentine Citizens and Foreign Citizens with Permanent Residence: 1) Owner’s original passport. 2) 2 Original B/L’s. 3) Complete car documentation including the property title under the name of the shipper. Original purchase invoice. Certificate of Residence issued by the Argentine Consulate at origin country ( for Argentine citizens returning only) Note: All documents that are not issued in Spanish must be translated by an official Translator and certified by the Argentine College of Translators. Duties / Taxes: Approximately 80% of car CIF value for normal cars , 100% for diesel cars and 65% for motorcycles. Argentine citizens returning can use this franchise (always paying taxes and duties) only once per lifetime and Customs will authorize just one for each adult member of the family. Eat, Drink and Be Careful xfiltrate |
Note this thread will be watched. "Reasonableness" will be a required criteria!
If you get it, you know - if you're wondering "what the heck is he talking about" then no worries, it's all sorted! :) |
I understand the problem - at the same time, there is a lot of good info and people do want to know. The thread has had a LOT of readers!
Perhaps you could do a post that encapulates the basics that ARE known and confirmed? And I could always delete the posts that are misleading / wrong / irrelevant. If you and xfiltrate give me a list I'll look at it. And I know you two will disagree, so will keep that well in mind! |
I have to say here, that when I wanted to sell my bike, this was the first thread I came to, but found it the most confusing peice of writing I have ever read. What a normal traveller wants to know is how to buy and sell a bike down there in SA. NOT all of them care to buy a new bike, but most of them wish to ride that bike beyond that countries border.
All they want to know is the process in buying a used bike that someone else wants to sell. In fact, a buyer and seller normally find eachother quite easy via this website. This has nothing to do with the import export laws of new bikes. All they need to know is the precise process involved in 'doing' the paperwork that is needed for the bike to enter the country in one bikers name, and leave with another bikers name. If I had followed the information supplied by the OP, then I would never have been able to sell my bike down there, because all my questions were answered with more involved hard to read answere, which was really hard to understand when you have limited internet access. So, I guess what this forum needs is a thread that outlines the EXACT processes needed for the deal to go through, even though there are some grey areas involved. But, is that allowed on this site, or will there be legal issues if the method is mentioned here? Cheers TravellingStrom |
Buying and Selling in Argentina
In the past, this thread and several other other threads, have reflected the confusion discovered regarding the "laws" of buying and selling foreign registered vehicles/motorcycles in Argentina. I accept full responsibility for my comments and apologize for any confusion.
Waterfox, himself, an Agentine registered "despachate" (importer) stated in his recent post: "I am, funily enough, a registered importer with the Argie Aduana and have NO idea of the law....." Because the actual laws are so confusing, I will no longer respond to questions regarding buying and selling foreign registered vehicles/motorcycles in Argentina. IMPORTANT NOTE: This is a moral and legal interpretation on my part, and should not be interpreted as anything but my own personal decision. I will continue to assist anyone, foreign tourists, permanent foreign residents or Argentines interested in buying and selling Argentine registered vehicles/motorcycles in Argentina. I will continue my work with the Argentine legislature and the President's office regarding the passing of clear legislation that will permit foreign tourists to purchase new or used Argentine vehicles/motorcycles and then be legally able to secure a Temporary Vehicle Export Permit for the purpose of touring other South American countries and returning to Argentina to park or sell their Argentine registered vehicle/motorcycle. TravellingStrom, hundreds, if not thousands of readers have benefited from this thread. Many foreign tourists have flown into Buenos Aires, legally purchased new or used Argentine registered motorcycles or vehicles and have had fantastic overland experiences. And then, legally sold their Argentine registered motorcycle or vehicle in Argentina or just legally parked in Argentina until their next tour. Grant has asked me to simplify my comments. I pray this clarification of the new direction of this thread helps. xfiltrate |
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This Is exactly what I need to know, but apparently nobody Knows! |
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Im confused as well.
I have responded to a couple of people planning to sell their bikes in B.A after their trips. When I asked how this would occur they either did not know exactly or just knew somebody who had done it.
If there is specific info on the Hubb about the exact process which occurs in this "grey" area transaction I cannot find it. I doubt it would be illegal to post the step by step process.There is so much information on the Net, a lot of it involving "Grey" area topics. If it is just a moral decision concerning this site which I certainly respect perhaps somebody who has completed the process can post a step by step instruction on the do's and dont's of foreigners selling to each other in Argentina and post it off site? Just a thought. |
Buying and Selling in Argentina
Emauriz, if you buy new or used Argentine registered motorcycles (any brand)in Argentina... manufactured in Brazil or any other *MERCOSUR country, you will avoid expensive import tariffs.
*(MERCOSUR is composed of 4 sovereign member states: Argentina, Brazil, Paraguay, and Uruguay, at this writing, I am not sure of the status of Chile) Examples of new motorcycle costs available today in Buenos Aires... NEW Honda NX400 Falcon approx: $7,000.00 USD NEW Honda XR250 Tornado approx: $5000.00 USD NEW Honda NXR125 Bros approx: $3,000.00 The second hand motorcycle market is booming in Buenos Aires. Many used Argentine registered MERCOSUR country manufactured motorcycles are currently available. Some reputable dealers in Buenos Aires will offer written buy back deals. A foreign tourist can legally purchase an Argentine registered motorcycle new or used in Argentina and then legally sell that motorcycle in Argentina or park/store in Argentina until their next tour. The paperwork for a new bike takes about 10 days. Paperwork for buying a used bike is dependent upon the seller's documentation and may shorten or lengthen the stated time required. If buying new, I would advise ordering your bike from an authorized dealer in advance, to be sure it will be available when you arrive. Elisa and I both tour on Honda NX400 Falcons (made in Brazil) We bought them new in Buenos Aires. Elisa also purchased a new Honda XR250 Tornado in Buenos Aires that she traded in toward the NX400. After more than 65,000 K for the 3 bikes combined, of heavy on and off road touring we have had no mechanical issues other than routine maintenance and routine part replacement! Honda parts for MERCOSUR manufactured Hondas are readily available throughout Argentina. We did fall several times in the Central Andes - little real damage, broken wind screens, mirrors etc as expected. Racks can be built locally for each of the bikes listed above. xfiltrate Note to Grant, Elisa finally arrived from Europe. We will be in contact very soon. |
I still wonder what s the point in going thru the argentine difficult, stressing and expensive administrative mess when you can buy a vehicule in another Mercosur country like Paraguay without any hassle (just a local address). Everything is easier here, no queues at the Airport, tropical weather, somewhat more attentive clerks...It s just like Tango, the art of complicating what could be simple for the sole pleasure of watchers. I m not a follower of Sacher Masoch.
I m puzzled.... :stupid: |
Buying in Argentina
Vorteks, thank you for your comments.
In my opinion, the process for a foreign tourist to buy a new Argentine registered motorcycle in Argentina is not "difficult, stressing nor expensive," and does not require standing in line at the airport??? The responsibilities of the foreign tourist buyer are simple. ONE: The foreign tourist secures a place to live in Argentina, a hostel or hotel will do, then visits the police district station responsible for that neighborhood (barrio) and requests a "domocilio." All that is needed is a passport with a valid tourist visa. The next working day a police officer will visit the foreign tourist at "home" and hand over a document certifying your residence. This cost 10 or 15 pesos, less than $4.00 USD. TWO: The foreign tourist takes the "domocilio" and passport to the local AfIP office responsible for the neighborhood (barrio) of residence. The foreign tourist requests a CDI (tax number). There might be a short wait, but generally less than an hour. The CDI, is also inexpensive, less than $10.00 USD. THREE: When buying new, a Gestor, (one who transfers titles as a business) who works for the dealer will complete the process. This costs about $300.00 pesos, less than $100.00 USD. There may also be fees required by Motor Vehicle Dept. but these are also inexpensive. (The actual documents required from the seller when buying used, are listed earlier in this thread) Four: Once the foreign tourist is given Title and Green Card for the motorcycle the foreign tourist takes these documents and passport to an insurance agency and buys insurance. This is also very inexpensive, about $30.00 USD per month. FIVE: The foreign tourist than mounts up and rides away. Oh yeah, a helmet is now required in Buenos Aires. An independent Gestor, can also be employed when buying a used Argentine registered motorcycle in Argentina. Note, even if your Spanish is limited, Argentines will be able to give directions to the foreign tourist's local police station and local AFIP office. I would like to know more about the actual process for a foreign tourist to buy new and used buy in the other MERCOSUR countries listed previously. Yes, I co-wrote a tango. My tango was presented as a "spectacular" at the world famous Cafe Tortoni in Buenos Aires. It is "Tango Wind" and the spectacular was named after my tango. There are also several YouTube videos of Tango Wind -the spectacular. The music video was filmed in London and Buenos Aires. Here it is: YouTube - Tango Wind My name appears in the credits after the music. Thanks for bringing up your preference in tangos. xfiltrate www.Xfiltrate.com - Professional Motorcycle Parking - Professional Motorcycle Parking |
Joint ownership in Argentina
I will respond to any answer questions on this very complex issue.
The following might be useful to Argentines or foreign tourists involved in the joint ownership of an Argentine registered motorcycle or vehicle. Earlier in this thread the process of buying a new or used Argentine registered motorcycle or vehicle has been established. The number of days needed for the purchase and several problems have been defined. The employment of a certified "gestor" (one who transfers titles as a business) has been recommended and the estimated cost of this service described. It has been suggested that when buying in Argentina, a foreign tourist may legally ride out of Argentina for a tour of other South American countries and then legally return. This is true if an Argentine or "permanent" foreign resident is listed on the title as co-owner and actually crosses the border with the motorcycle or vehicle. In Argentina legal ownership and LIABILITIES are shared equally between co-owners. An Argentine or permanent foreign resident of Argentina can legally exit an Argentine registered motorcycle or vehicle. Aside from the obvious liability issue, I have discovered another problem. If the foreign tourist is legally married, Argentine property law requires the "personal appearance with identification " signature of the spouse before the foreign tourist or Argentine can sell or remove his/her name from the title. This can be problematic if the spouse is unable to appear in person. Other than this new discovery, the process of removing ones' name from a jointly owned Argentine registered motorcycle or vehicle in Argentina and leaving the other owner as sole owner, is a 2 to 3 day process and costs about $130.00 USD. It is done at the Argentine motor vehicle district indicated by the residence of record when purchasing the motorcycle or vehicle. In the event of a sale occurring in an Argentine city other than the city of purchase, the Argentine motor vehicle office responsible for the residence district of the buyer is authorized. Of course both joint owners and any spouse will also be required to sign in person. I suppose there will be additional delays while the motorcycle/vehicle records are located and transferred to the new district. Joint ownership does present problems, please be advised. Eat, Drink and Be Careful xfiltrate |
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At some point the buying price is relevant.If you buy a cheap chinese crapy bike(you will not end your trip) prices are ok. Now talking of a mid range bike(500-750)prices start at 5.000 us and end up to 10/14000 US!!!!!!Of course no panniers and racks included. On top of all you are talking of bikes produced in the mid 90´.Hondas and Yamahas. Also reselling the bike after the trip is not done that fast.You will need to give it to someone or a shop of trust to get the fair price back. In all Grant my experience tells me:bring your equiped (known)bike with,pay the shipping price and roll on.Most do only entry or going out shipping from BA.Not a hughe ammount in the end. For shure is less the paying our domestic prices(a GS 1200 is on the 25000 US) Karl |
Hi!
I really need your help than i have a lot of questions for buying a bike in argentina! Can you write me a PersonalMessage? I can not write you because i don't have 3 Posts. Thank you Thanks a lot for Help |
This is a very old threas, but I don't think anything has changed and probably xfiltrate will come along and repeat his advice that a foreigner CAN buy a vehicle in Argentina, BUT cannot take it out of the country for a couple of years.
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Here is help -
fantasy23
If you are looking for detailed instructions regarding buying a new or used motorcycle in Argentina please go to our web site: www.Xfiltrate.com - Professional Motorcycle Parking All information is free! Please click on Buy a Motorcycle in Argentina. everything is there in great detail. you can ask specific questions here and I will answer. Now, as a foreign tourist if you want to ride that Argentine registered motorcycle out of Argentina, you might be able to do so if an Argentine is co-owner of the the motorcycle - he/she will have to cross the motorcycle out of Argentina for you. Then you can ride South America - You will most likely not have any difficulty returning the motorcycle to Argentina. As for Argentine law today - and others please correct me if I am wrong, - a foreign tourist cannot ride out of Argentina on an Argentine registered motorcycle that the foreign tourist legally purchased in Argentina unless as above the motorcycle is co owned by an Argentine, and the Argentine crosses the motorcycle out of Argentina for the foreign tourist. xfiltrate |
Expired TIP because of COVID
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You seem pretty knowledgeable so I will run this by you. My TIP expired over two years ago. I was forced to leave it in BA and fly home because of Covid. I tried to deal with the legalities back in California, but the Argentina government agencies were not answering their phones - like many agencies, shut down because of Covid. I did get ahold of Dakarmotos in BA. They said don’t worry about it, the border agents will let it slide because of Covid. So now I finally return to ride the bike only to be informed by Dakarmotos that I took too long and the authorities will most likely confiscate my bike, unless I pay thousands of dollars. They suggested maybe making a run for the border and explaining Covid. Ant suggestions? |
Attempt to Cross Alone
I was recommended this thread in a Facebook expat group. I noticed you mentioned this:
"2 out of 3 custom officials (AT THE MINISTRY OF EXTERNAL AFFAIRS) said that it is OK for a foreign tourist to take an Argentine registered bike out of Argentina, as long as the foreign tourist has the "green card" for the bike." If I were to attempt crossing into Chile with my car as a tourist by myself, and for whatever reason they said I couldn't go, what's the worst that can happen, do you know? Would they just turn me around? Also, seeing as how this thread is quite old, I'd assume you've encountered people that have attempted to cross alone. Are they mostly successful or unsuccessful? Thanks for the writeup and willingness to help others. It's refreshing to see. |
I’m a US citizen and legal owner of a Mexican motorcycle. The bike currently sits in Ecuador. I’m looking for ways to get rid of the bike at the moment. Is Argentinian option for me?
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In 2008, I was quite prolific with my unwashed commentary and advice and for good reason I was sanctioned by HU. Today, I lean conservatively toward rules and regulations. The regulation is that as a tourist visiting Argentina on a 3 or 8 month tourist visa , the tourist can legally purchase and sell in Argentina a vehicle or motorcycle. The regulation prohibits tourists from exiting their legally purchased Argentine registered vehicle or motorcycle from Argentina. Experience dictates that today the vast majority of official Argentina border posts are equipped with computers and well trained officials that know how to determine, by passport or VIN examination the status of the "tourist" and the registration information of Argentine registered vehicles and motorcycles. Argentine registered Vehicles and motorcycles purchased by tourists will be stopped and prohibited from leaving Argentina. Argentine registered motorcycles are permitted to be in Argentina indefinitely, so I suspect the tourist might be permitted to leave Argentina, but the legally owned vehicle or motorcycle will remain in Argentina. When Elisa and I surveyed customs officials in 2008, we did find that most custom officials lacked the training to know the regulations regarding this issue. As a tourist, I would not attempt to exit my legally purchased vehicle or motorcycle from Argentina. I am now a permanent foreign resident of Argentina and have legally exited my NX400 Honda from Argentina many times. There exists a local Honda agency that sells new Hondas to tourists and will buy back the Honda anytime during the three year warranty period. I hope this has not only been my mea culpa but provided useful information to tourists wishing to buy and sell a motorcycle in Argentina. *Please, as a tourist, do not attempt to leave Argentina with your Argentine registered vehicle or motorcycle. |
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No options in your case AD: Hey there is a free Mexican plated motorcycle in Ecuador, the helmet is what I'm selling worth 2000 bucks, bike included |
It would be illegal with consequences (a big mistake) to sell or attempt to sell a Mexican registered or any foreign plated motorcycle in Argentina. As a tourist from the USA you would have to enter the Mexican registered motorcycle into Argentina on a Temporary Vehicle Import Permit (TVIP) and by doing so you agree not to sell the motorcycle in Argentina.
You also agree to exit the Mexican registered motorcycle before the TVIP expires. TVIPs are issued at the border for 3 months and at some borders for 8 months. If the bike is in the country after the TVIP expires it will be confiscated by the authorities. It is important to note that all insurance is null and void once the TVIP expires. Insurance companies are off the hook if the foreign registered motorcycle is in country with an expired, non existent or photoshopped TVIP. |
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