|
Buy new or used in Argentina and legally tour all of South America
Anyone wanting to buy a new or used bike in Argentina might be interested to know that it is possible for a foreign tourist to buy new or used in Argentina and then tour other countries. Keep reading for a 100% workable plan.
I have just completed additional research regarding foreign tourists purchasing a bike in Argentina and crossing into another country. Alone, it is possible to cross into Chile, with luck and not 100% every time, Bolivia is impossible to enter as a foreign tourist riding a bike purchased in Argentina, BouqueBus (the ferry), to Uruguay has really tightened up on allowing a foreign tourist on a bike purchased in Argentina to board for Uruguay. Brazil and Paraguay are very difficult also. Meanwhile, once out of Argentina, crossing other borders is no problem, if the foreign tourist has the "green card" for the bike with an Argentine address listed on it. A WORKABLE PLAN I have discovered a way. and this works 100% of the time, but is hard work, or not. If a guy or gal wants to buy in Argentina, he/she finds an Argentine "friend," an amigovia will do, willing to have the bike also put in his/her name as 50% owner and then request two "green cards," one for the Argentine "friend" the other for the foreign tourist. Then, the "friend" must ride to the border, even to Bolivia, Brazil, or Paraguay and cross the bike with the foreign tourist. Once across the border, the "friend" may return to Argentina, leaving the foreign tourist with his/her green card in hand and easy border crossings throughout South America. There will be no problem crossing the bike back into Argentina, as it will be legally registered in Argentina, although border officials may look a bit surprised when they discover the foreign tourist is not a resident of Argentina with DNI. This plan has been proven to work. After entering Chile and Uruguay with our Argentine bikes with no problems, Elisa and I recently crossed again into Uruguay on BouqueBus (the ferry), we have two bikes, both purchased new in Argentina and each has two "green cards" one in Elisa's name and the other in my name. I am a US foreign resident of Argentina, Elisa is Spanish and still in the process of becoming a foreign resident. The Customs official, a very determined woman, tried to stop Elisa from boarding with her bike, although BouqueBus (the ferry) had already sold us tickets for both bikes. I presented the "green card" indicating that I, a foreign resident of Argentina also owned Elisa's bike. The customs woman called her boss on her little radio, and after a short wait, he examined the "green card" for Elisa's bike in my name and my residency papers and sort of admonished the customs woman, smiled and allowed us to board. Anyone with questions is welcome to contact me via private message Happy New Year & Buenas Rutas, Edouardo George |
reason..?
have you ever thought that maybe there's a reason for not letting foreing citizens buy a vehicle...?
|
Good Question!
Yes, actually an excellent question...Mario, there is a reason and a law for not allowing foreign tourists to by a new or used bike in Argentina and then ride the bike out of Argentina.
There is no reason or Argentine law preventing a foreign tourist from buying a new or used bike in Argentina, as long as he/she has established a "domocillio" and takes the "certificado de Domocilio" to an AFIP office, and requests a CDI (tax number) for foreigners. This, plus a passport, is all that is legally required for a foreign tourist to purchase a new or used bike in Argentina, and with the title of the bike, the bike can then be registered and 2 "green cards" can be legally issued one in the Argentine or Argentine resident's name and the other in the name and "Domocilio" of the foreign tourist. It is the part about the foreign tourist taking the bike out of Argenina that is prohibited by Argentine law. I have a copy of this law, and even with this law in my hand, 2 out of 3 custom officials (AT THE MINISTRY OF EXTERNAL AFFAIRS) said that it is OK for a foreign tourist to take an Argentine registered bike out of Argentina, as long as the foreign tourist has the "green card" for the bike. Be that as it may, 2 out of 3 ain't bad, but there does exist this law, and I believe I know why the law was passed. This law was passed as a reciprocal agreement with limitrofos (neighboring countries) to protect the Argentine motorcycle market by preventing less expensive bikes from entering Argentina or the reverse and being sold, and untaxed Argentine bikes from leaving Argentina and being sold in neighboring countries. My research indicates that Chile does permit (not 100%) and depending on border... foreign tourists in with Argentine purchased bikes and therefore, Argentine border officials allow foreign tourists out of Argentina riding their Argentine purchased bikes at certain border crossings into chile. On the other hand, Bolivia does not allow foreign tourists riding their Argentine bikes into Bolivia. Uruguay had no such restrictions until about 2 years ago and Paraguay is sort of a "no man's land" where anything might happen. Brazil is difficult, especially for North Americans...border officials might and then again they might not permit foreign tourists riding argentine purchased bikes. But, and this is the key.....Once across the Argentine border into another country, a foreign tourist riding a bike purchased and registered in Argentina has no problems crossing any other border. This of course is dependent upon him/her having the Argentine "green card" for the bike. The plan described at the beginning of this thread, assures the Argentine authorities, that the bike will return to Argentina for resale, because it is half owned by an Argentine or established Argentine resident. Although, certified paperwork can be legally and simply arranged right after registration of the bike that would permit the foreign tourist to sell the bike, the idea is not to defeat any Argentine law, but to help the economy of Argentina by increasing the sales and re sale of motorcycles in Argentina through the in flow of foreign capital provided by over landers wanting to buy in Argentina, tour South America, and then return to Argentina to sell their bike. this is a good plan because many fly in and out of Buenos Aires. Of course, and I believe this will become a favored option, the foreign tourist may store/park his/her bike in Argentina forever, because it is a bike registered in Argentina. the advantage here is that the foreign tourist has his/her bike waiting in Argentina for the next tour of South America. Or the foreign tourist may sell the bike to another foreign tourist and that foreign tourist can half own with an Argentine or established resident of Argentina, willing to escort the bike to Uruguay or any other border of Argentina, and then the second foreign tourist may also legally tour all of South America. I am hereby calling this the "In & Out Border Crossing" plan. If any other potential In and Outers have questions please post here and know I will answer to the best of my ability. Thanks Mario. xfiltrate |
An after thought that might clarify things a bit.
Not wanting to be misleading, a foreign tourist can legally purchase a bike in Argentina, without the help of an Argentine or Argentine resident, tour Argentina and then legally sell the bike in Argentina.
But, there is a need to have an Argentine or Argentine resident accompany the foreign tourist, or at least take the bike out of Argentina, and to do so, the Argentine or Argentine resident must also have a "green card" for the bike. Those foreign tourists want to buy new or used in Argentina can, have and are now legally purchasing and registering the bikes in Argentina, touring Argentina and then legally selling or storing/parking the bikes in Argentina for as long as they want, without the assistance of any Argentine or resident of Argentina. Hope this is easier to understand, it took me two years. xfiltrate |
Bike and Auto documents needed to transfer title in Argentina
In our continuing effort to bring the very latest and most accurate information to you regarding a foreign tourist buying and then selling a motorcycle/auto in Argentina and legally crossing the Argentine border for the purpose of touring other south American countries, we owe a great debt to Mariano of Motocare.com. (please see my other posts on this thread) Mariano sells and rents new and used motorcycles from his showroom/shop at LIBERTADOR 6588, BUENOS AIRES. Motocare
IN A FEW MINUTES, Elisa, Jeff of Globebusters, and I are off to look at a used car and TO VERIFY THE OWNER HAS THE DOCUMENTS needed to go to the "REGISTRO" in the morning and legally transfer the car's title to Jeff and my name. Here is the list of documents we will be requesting from the owner of the used car. 1. Título de propiedad original. Title 2. Cédula verde original. Green card (registration) 3. Formulario 08 o Contrato de Transferencia, firmado por el vendedor y, si es que el titular figura como casado en el titulo, entonces tambien por el cónyuge. Esta/s firmas certificadas por el Registro de Motovehiculos (aquel donde esta el legajo de la moto) o escribano publico. No traslation for this but he will know...it is a form to be signed. 4. Verificacion Policial. Police check up for possible theft charges. 5. Informe de Dominio, To check that the seller can sell.... 6. Estado de Deuda de Patentes, o libre deuda de Patentes. Taxes up to date. 8. Libre deuda de Infracciones del Tránsito. . No tickets We will not leave a deposit "reserva" for the car unless we have a physical copy of each of these documents in hand , or are absolutely convinced missing documents will be provided by the "Registro" in the morning. We will have the owner sign an agreement to legally sell the car to Jeff within the next week or return his deposit. The deposit will be no more than $20.00 US dollars. As I have indicated on other threads, a foreign tourist can legally buy and sell a new or used moto or auto in Argentina, but can be very risky. We are doing our best to eliminate any risk involved. Our goal is to mark the path for those foreign tourists who want to fly to Buenos Aires, buy a new or used moto or auto, register it legally, buy appropriate insurance, tour other South America countries and then return to Argentina to sell or store the moto or auto. And, to do this as legally and as economically as possible. We are testing the system today and tomorrow or the next day you will have a follow up report. Please post questions, comments and personal experiences on this thread. your ace reporters in Buenos Aires...... Xfiltrate, Desert Rose, and Jeff |
Trailblazing to New Horizons, buy/sell in Argentina
Thank you for tuning in once again. We are indeed Trailblazing to the New Horizon of buying and selling new or used motor vehicles in Argentina by foreign tourists, and presenting a 100% legal and workable plan to leave Argentina with the motor vehicle, tour south America, and then return to Argentina to sell or store it.
Elisa, Jeff and I inspected a 1968 2cv citroen for the pupose of buying it. The citroen had been in storage for 20 years, exterior exceptionally good, and after a test drive, a manifold leak was the only apparent mechanical flaw. Jeff is an experienced mechanic and was ready to do bearings, breaks and to remove the top end of the motor for a rebuild (no problem). Parts are available for this model throughout Argentina. The little 2cv citroen has a 440 cc engine with only two cylinders...oh and the carb needed some attention too. And it has a wall to wall sun roof, removable doors (all four) plus removable back window, and the back and passenger seats are removable.... WOW it is very cool and Jeff said he saw more than one crossing the Sahara Desert. Two men can easily lift the front end, and another two the rear. Problem One: the title was not in the name of X (the person selling the citroen) but in the name of Y (his cousin). Problem Two: In 1990 all Argentine license plates were to have been exchanged for new license plates. The 1968 citroen still had the (old style) prior to 1990 license plate. Problem Three: the citroen had no insurance, we barefooted it for the test drive (around the block). Problem Four: The citroen did not have the proper inspection papers issued by the police indicating that the vehicle identification numbers, motor and chassis, were the same as those listed on the title and green card that were presented to us by the seller. This is required to transfer a title...We did not bother to check, feeling confident they were the same and if not the police would confiscate the car immediately, while still "belonging" to the seller. Considering the complications of buying a citroen with the older style license plates, and although the seller indicated that he has a "permission to sell" document from his cousin and that all other documents would be provided by the Registro (the official government office controlling the transfer of title of motor vehicles) we decided to advise the seller we were going to employ the services of a GESTOR, (one who does title transfers of motor vehicles as a business). Good thing we did. Immediately upon explaining the circumstances of the citroen to a GESTOR recommended by my ESCRIBANO, (one who does land title transfers as a business), we discovered that contrary to what the seller had told us regarding "antiques" like the Citroen, a police verification of vehicle identification numbers was required. We set up a meet at the registro for this Thrusday. The seller was to bring the Citroen and we were to bring the money and our GESTOR to do the paperwork with the Registro before we paid the seller for the Citroen. Meanwhile I called around and discovered that most insurance agencies in Argentina do not insure motor vehicles older than 1980. A few do, but the insurance is expensive and hard to find, especially insurance that would insurance the vehicle in the "limitrofos" neighboring countries. This is not to say buying isurance for an Argentine registered vehicle manufacturer prior to 1980 is not possible, just possibly more expensive than insuring a vehicle manufactured after 1980. We are talking civil liability insurance only (that required by Argentine law), not comprehesive, nor theft insurance. And, we decided to visit my buddies at ACA, Argentine Motor Club to check out the rumor that the old license would have to be turned in and the new ones not issued for 3 to 5 working days. On the other hand, if the vehicle had the newer style license plates, those would be left in place and simply transferred to the name of the new owner, and a permission to drive would have been issued by the Registro for a period of 5 days, while the title was in the process of being transferred. So what does this mean, well we would have shown up with our GESTOR, who would have legally done all the title transfer paperwork and we would have paid the money to the seller, only to be left with a citroen with no license plates for 3- 5 "working days" weekends excluded. And, due to the fact that the older plates of the citroen had to be turned in, no permission to drive note issued by the Registro. If we tried to drive the citroen from the province into the capital, we would have had to go three three police districts and the car would have been stopped, and immediately confiscated for not having license plates, title or green card, and no insurance unless we had managed to convince the insurance company to sell us insurance before the vehicle was transferred into our names. (Doubtful) My ACA contacts informed me that once a vehicle is confiscated a minimum of 6 weeks wait for processing, after the proper paperwork is produced and presented to the police, and a fine of 1000.00 pesos or more would be the penalty. We came up with the bright idea to ask the seller drive the car to my parking garage, prior to initiating the title transfer, thinking Jeff could work on the citroen until the title transfer was processed. When we had our GESTOR call the seller and float this idea, he asked her to ask us if we thought he was crazy and to tell us there is no way he was going to drive a vehicle with expired license plates through the 3 police districts between his house and my parking garage. He expected us to do it, but he wouldn't. He must have thought we were dumb. We are not dumb, and matter of fact we let him know that we have called off the deal unless he was willing to deposit the vehicle in my garage until the new license plate could be issued. After all, it was his fault, or his cousin's fault, that the plate was not exchanged as mandated by law in 1990. So, I picked up today's Clarin (local daily newspaper) and we are looking for another citroen 2cv or something comparable, but with a license plate issued after 1990 for starters. THE GESTOR IS EXCELLENT, WRITE FOR DETAILS IF YOU WANT TO USE HER SERVICES. Please stay tuned for our next adventure and Jeff is fine, he really enjoyed the permanent antique car exhibit at the Argentine Motor Club, we even found a couple of 1976 Gilera motorcycles, (or something close to that) We are having fun Trailblazing to New Horizons who knows what we will experience around the next bend .... xfiltrate, Elisa and Jeff |
Trailblazing to New Horizons: Buy/Sell in Argentina
Life is good. I am pleased to report Jeff found another citroen, this time it was listed on the web. We called immediately and to our surprise, the Argentine owner spoke perfect English. Jeff and his girlfriend, correction, one of his girlfriends, just returned from a test ride with the owner.
Interestingly enough the Argentine owner also para glides, like Jeff. I think this has something to do with jumping off cliffs attached to some kind of wings or a kite, or something. This is really good because Jeff was able to find out the best cliffs to jump off of. I don't get it, but Jeff was happy. It is a yellow 74 3cv Citroen, looking a lot like the older model described in detail last post, minus any mechanical problems. And, this one has the post 1990 license plates, insurance and all the prerequisites for selling. (see previous post this thread) Jeff hand shook a deal and gave the owner the number of our GESTOR. (one who transfers vehicle titles as a business) Whenever the GESTOR, the owner, Jeff and I can arrange to meet at the proper REGISTRO, the title transfer will take place, Jeff will pay the knocked down asking price. Meanwhile, while the citroen is still properly licensed and insured by the owner,this would be prior to going to the REGISTRO for title transfer, the owner will drive the citroen to my garage and park it. This will enable Jeff and I a day or two to find and buy insurance, and avoid risking a drive from the REGISTRO to the garage without insurance. It is much more difficult in Argentina to buy your way out of a confiscation for not having insurance than it is in Colombia, especially in Buenos Aires. One might end up with an additional criminal charge of attempting to corrupt a police officer or something just as oxymoronic. We are well on our way to achieving the buy part of our buy in Argentina, tour South America and sell in Argentina adventure. stay tuned. Hey anyone reading this? Anyone find this helpful, learn anything new or have a question? No, I won't even go there about what Jeff's girlfriend looks like. But just between you and me, hot, hot , hot, xfiltrate, Elisa and Jeff |
Trailblazing to New Horizons: Buy/Sell in Argentina
Another good day. We called the GESTOR (see previous posts this thread) and she called the owner, of the soon to be Jeff's citroen 3cv. She arranged a meet at the REGISTRO for title transfer tomorrow morning. The owner will deposit the citroen in my garage, giving Jeff and I enough time to scout up proper insurance without having to stealth city streets with an uninsured vehicle, between the REGISTRO and garage.
This is all going very well. It has been only 72 hours between Jeff's first look and test ride in the citroen and the planned legal transfer of the citroen's title from an Argentine to foreign tourist (New Zealand) Jeff. That is if all goes well in the the morning, but if it doesn't, no worries mate, this has been a lot of fun. And, both the owner and Jeff like to jump off cliffs strapped to some kind of wings or kite or something, or did I already mention that already. Don't know much about the Argentine owner, but if I was able to attract the quality and quantity of women that Jeff's attracts, I wouldn't even think about jumping off a cliff. Stay turned for the continuing saga of Trailblazing to New Horizons: Buy/Sell in Argentina. xfiltrate, Elisa and Jeff |
Trailblazing to New Horizons: Buy/Sell in Argentina
IT IS A DONE DEAL. Yesterday dawned bright and sunny in Buenos Aires. Jeff and I arrived REGISTRO 42 (vehicle title transfers are done at the particular REGISTRO where the vehicle is registered). Our GESTOR (one who transfers vehicle titles) joined us before we could enter the building. It was exactly 10:30 AM, and our scheduled meet with the owner was at 11:00.
Our GESTOR, was all business, she went right up to the REGISTO on the second floor, caught the eye of the senior administrator and presented copies of the Citroen's paperwork. Once we had identified the citroen as a potential buy, we provided had the Gestor with the phone number of the owner and he had faxed her copies of all needed documents. We sat down and looked hopeful. Promptly at 11:00 AM the owner strolled in. He was very cool, speaking English to us and Spanish to our GESTOR. The GESTOR brought him up to the counter where he produced the originals of the copies our GESTOR had already presented to the REGISTO. After a half hour of verifying the originals and preparing the transfer papers for signature, we were summoned to the counter and Jeff and I both signed six different documents. We will be co-owners of the citroen but will have individual "tarjetas verdes" green cards. More about the reason for this later. After everyone signed whatever needed to be signed, and the RESGISTO handed us the temporary transfer papers, Jeff paid the agreed upon price to the owner and then paid the GESTOR about $65.00 US (200 pesos). We invited our GESTOR and the former owner of the citroen to coffee. After coffee we said goodbye to our GESTOR, who had performed admirably. This was Friday and Jeff and I return Tuesday to pick up the new title and the two green cards, meanwhile we are legal to drive the citroen pending transfer of insurance. The owner had parked the citroen in a nearby parking garage, and offered to walk with us to his nearby insurance company, to help transfer the insurance to Jeff and I. This was done efficiently, although we double checked that the motor and chassis numbers on the transfer papers were the same as those listed for the *new insurance policy. This had gone very well and on schedule, and Jeff invited the owner and I to an asado (beef) and potato lunch. Between 10:30 AM and 3:00 PM yesterday (Friday) a foreign tourist, Jeff, legally purchased and insuranced an Argentine registered vehicle from an Argentine and had a coffee and lunch in the process. WOW After lunch Jeff and I walked to parking garage, cranked up "Cristina" Jeff's name for the citroen, I call it "the banana", because it is yellow, and drove to my garage. Where, Jeff has been "tidying Cristina up" for a road trip that will cover the beaches to the south, northern Argentina, Chile, Peru and Bolivia, maybe. It has been less than five days from first seeing the citroen to transferring title and insurance into our names. This is good. *In Argentina, the vehicle is insured, so anyone driving it, with a valid license is covered. We bought the policy with coverage in the MERCOSUR "neighboring countries including coverage for Peru and Bolivia. Jeff and I return on Monday to pick up the expedited insurance papers, mailing them to us would have taken two weeks. And, Jeff is more than ready to get on the road with his "new" 1976 citroen. This title transfer was very easy, very smooth and because Jeff and I both had our passports and CDIs (tax numbers) and the previous owner had all required documents, without any delay. The BUY part of BUY/TOUR/SELL in Argentina is a done deal. Stay tuned for the TOUR part. And if you see a bright yellow 3cv citroen whis past at about 60K an hour, that be Jeff and Cristina also known as the banana. -----NOTE: Our GESTOR would be more than pleased to legally transfer vehicle or motorcycle titles for any foreign tourist wanting to buy or sell in Argentina. Her name is Patricia and she is a winner. Anyone reading this and wanting her services will be charged a discounted rate. Just let me know and I will arrange a meet. xfiltrate, Elisa and Jeff |
Trail Blazing to New Horizons: Buy/Tour SA/&Sell Argentina
IT IS ALL OFFICIAL.
Yesterday, Jeff and I returned to the PARANA insurance agency and to our delight there waiting for us (well, practically) were our insurance cards and formal policies. We needed two different policies, one for Argentina and the other for MERCOSUL/MERCOSUR that covers all the "limitrofos" neighboring countries and Bolivia (a non MERCOSUR country) and Peru. Today, we returned to REGISTRO 42 and picked up our "trajeta verdes" green cards that are the (Celdula de Identificcion del Automotor) "registration and the Title for the citroen 3cv. THE CITROEN IS NOW LEGALLY TRANSFERRED TO JEFF AND MY NAMES. Meanwhile, Jeff and yet another beautiful girlfriend, who is our neighbor, speaks fluent English and is a student from Colombia, sourced and bought spare parts, new tires and a mechanics kit. The conclusion of the BUY in Argentina part of this trilogy is now complete, except for producing a compact, step by step guide with helpful information on How to Buy a New or Used motor vehicle in Argentina. If you can save (better) or use credit card to get cash (not a good idea, unless you can pay it off within 30 days) you can find and buy a motorcycle or automobile here in Argentina after entering on a 3 month tourist stamp in your passport. Check Argentine web pages for availability and costs. remember, you can offer less than the asking price and if it is a reasonable offer you might get it. Or, Jeff might be wanting to sell his citroyen 3cv after a couple months of touring South America. Next part is the tour part and if you have been reading this thread, you already know we have come up with a 100% legal and workable plan to exit Argentina with your Argentine registered motor vehicle for the purpose of touring South America, ride/drive back to Argentina and legally sell or store your motor vehicle. xfiltrate, Elisa and Jeff |
So far, so good
Nice going Edouardo,
Yes, there are hundreds who have read your thread - I, for one, am looking forward to a completely successful conclusion to your experiment. Are you offering to be "the friend in Argentina" for anyone from this website who turns up in South America? (Just to put you on the spot!! :rolleyes2:). Maybe Patricia would do it also, as a sideline to her main job??! Cheers, |
Trail Blazing to New Horizons, Cowgirl Up or whatever?
Walkabout, thanks you for the encouragement and questions. I will not speak for Patricia regarding her willingness to do more than transfer vehicle titles.
Interestingly, she dropped by to give Jeff the paid receipt for her services this afternoon and mentioned that she found also found a citroen 3cv for sale at a great price. I had mentioned that there might be a new market for inexpensive easy to work on, used citroens or other economical touring vehicles. She was quick to add that her brother worked for a motorcycle dealer named CYCLES who are official Beta, Zanella and Gilera representatives. CYCLES sells new (0 Kilometer) and used bikes. I have no experience with this dealership, you are on your own. I can recommend a great Honda dealer in Buenos Aires, if anyone is interested. Elisa is in the process, and I have my DNI (Official foreign resident status) in Argentina and we can offer you a reasonably priced private room with bath and long or short term safe and secure motorcycle parking right now. We have purchased several "cocheras" in the very upscale parking garage next to our apartment in Recoleta. The experiment is just that, an experiment, and to offer anything other than accurate information regarding the new horizon of buying/touring/selling would be very irresponsible. By nature, I am a trail blazer. I will be off to a newer horizon when this trail is blazed for others. But, I could certainly make appropriate introductions that might result in friendships. And, if you don't know him, a gentleman named Javier operates Dakar Motos in Vincente Lopez and perhaps one might find him a friend. He comes to mind because he has helped many foreign motorcylists over many years with a wide variety of problems. As recommended earlier in this thread, I would go the "amigovia" route. In Arizona we would say, "Cowgirl Up!" or for you ladies, "Cowboy Up" and then again it might be Cowgirl Up for Cowgirls and Cowboy up for Cowboys and now you know why I am investigating UFO sightings and cattle mutilations on the Argentine Pampas by suspected aliens. Oh forget it, don't try to figure it all out, I can't. More on this in the touring South America part of the trilogy, up next. thanks for the encouragement, xfiltrate |
pump it up
I would like to publicly thank Ed and Elisa for having me stay with them these past weeks and for their huge efforts in making the purchase of a vehicle possible.
There were many times throughout this process that it all just seemed way to hard, but together we always found a way and were mostly able to maintain our focus. I feel we have truly achieved something of significance which will be of benefit to many others wanting to buy locally here in Buenos Aires. Thankyou so much!! My weeks here in BA have been a pleasure, it will be sad to leave, there is a great support network here for travellers. Specifically Mariano at Motocare, Xavier at Dakar motors, the boys at ACA (Argentine Auto club) everyone has been really helpful and encouraging. What a great city! Also a big thanks to Alicia, Alejandra, Mariana, Xchelle, Pauliney, Maria Paola, Maria Jose, Miriam and Laura for their companionship and encouragement while I have been in town. Now I just need to encourage the old heap out of town and on to the open road, looking for moose. That should be a bit of a laugh. Jeff |
Trail Blazing to New Horizons: Buy/Tour S.A./Sell Argentina
Jeff, thanks for "pumping it up."
For those who have not seen "The Ride" a National Geographic documentary about a 23,000 mile ride by 11 novice BMWs riders and 7 staff, from Alaska to Patagonia, (it rivals the "Long Way Around,") the "looking for moose" reference in Jeff's post, was a line Jeff used in the movie. see various web pages: The Ride - Alaska to Patagonia - Produced by Cambridge Film & Television Productions or see clips on YouTube: YouTube - The Ride Alaska to Patagonia (5) or read the film crews write up about Jeff: The Ride - Alaska to Patagonia - Produced by Cambridge Film & Television Productions Jeff was featured throughout "The Ride" in his capacity as guide for GlobeBusters, the British concern that organized the trip. Jeff will be climbing back "into bed with mother nature" when he streaks out of Buenos Aires in *"Cristina" his yellow 1973 citroen 3cv, purchased in Buenos Aires, for the purpose of touring South America. Meanwhile, well let's just say, he is saying goodbye to close friends. Yeah, you got it. Jeff is a friend to everyone he meets and finds something to like about everyone. A machinist, welder and explorer by trade, he is honest, capable, intelligent and an absolute joy to be around. Elisa and I will miss him. Depending on his tour and film schedules, he might return to Argentina in March to accompany us on a return expedition to the Pampas of Argentina to continue our investigations into UFO sightings, unusual cattle mutilations and reports of strange beings. We will be hosting several internationally known experts in ufology and strangeness. xfiltrate *another Cristina was recently elected President of Argentina. |
Trail Blazing to New Horizons: Buy/Tour/Sell in Argentina
Today marks a milestone along our trail. Jeff Condon of "The Ride" and "Rambling Man" fame also known as Kiwiryder launched his 1973 Citroen 3cv known as "Cristina" toward the beaches of Argentina. He has been renewing Cristina for the last week or so with the sometimes able assistance of the mechanics of what used to be a Citroen dealership in Buenos Aires. Spare parts are readily available here for the little 600cc engine that gets better gas milage than most bikes.
E-mails and phone calls are pouring in from others who would like to legally buy, new or used in Buenos Aires, tour Argentina and then legally sell in Buenos Aires. Bikes or cars can be legally purchased by foreigners if they obtain a "domocillio" and a CDI. These are both explained in detail in this thread. Jeff, who is a Kiwi, legally bought "Cristina" fixed her up and is now touring for 1000 k or so and then heading back in for an oil change and mechanical check. After that who knows where Cristina will carry the Rambling Man? He is much missed by Elisa and I, he built some trolleys to store bikes on and helped us outfit our upcoming expedition to Las Pampas to search for UFOs and investigate more cattle mutilations. And became a good and trusted friend. He is missed more by the multitute of women who befriended him. So, if you see a bright yellow Citroen 3cv with a black convertible top, that will be Jeff. He took some Spanish lessons while here and learned how to serve up a mean mate, so wave and get him to tell you all about his adventures. You will be glad you did. He might even offer you some BUSH TUCKER (Austrailian for food consumed while bush camping) xfiltrate |
Ahhh, Citroens, Gileras, Zanellas... brings back good memories.
Thank you very much for taking the time to write this post, it has been very helpful for us folks planning on purchasing a bike/car in Arg .... Ride safe y portate bien!!!! |
Trail Blazing to New Horizons Buy/Tour/Sell in Argentina
Just received a text message from "Ramblin Man" Jeff Condon. He and his 1973 Citroen 3cv made it to Mar del Plata (vacation beaches for a whole lot of Argentines JAN-FEB- and into March) it is stormy there and he and Cristina are resting after a flawless drive from Buenos Aires.
Keeping you updated with facts regarding Buy/Tour/Sell in Argentina is what this thread is all about and I learned some new facts today. Elisa and I visited our friend Jorge Nacandakare at GENAMAX Official Honda dealer here in Buenos Aires for more than 30 years, and the first in Argentina.( AV. Juan B Justo 7550) I am promoting GENAMAX only because we know by our own experience that GENAMAX is a reputable, capable (brand new shop) and fair Honda dealership. We invited with us a Frenchman who is a legal foreign resident of Argentina (has his DNI). Our purpose was to check availability and current prices of a new Transalp XL700, NX 400 Falcon and a XR 250 Tornado with the idea in mind to buy new/ tour and sell back to the dealer after touring. 2008 Transalp XL700 with ABS is: $15,800 USD 2008 Transalp XL700 without ABS is: $14,600 USD I just learned from a contact in England that Transalps are less expensive there and that probably is true because Transalps are imported from Japan, not manufactured by Honda in Brazil like the following two bikes: On the other hand we discovered the current price for: 2008 NX400 Falcon $6,900 USD 2008 XR250 tornado $5000 USD Depending on the cost of the bike, registration, plates etc. will cost between $200.USD and $300 USD. A Transalp ordered today 07feb08 will be available around the middle of March. Either the NX400 or XR250 ordered today will be available around the first of March. Insurance is cheap unless you buy theft coverage available from USCB bank here at a little less than $100 USD/month. Required liability insurance is around $100 for six months. Once a foreign tourist obtains his/her Domocilio and CDI (explained in great detail in this thread) - a three day to four day process. He/she can legally purchase a new or used bike in Argentina. The bike can be pre ordered. Jorge Nakandakare offers a buy back plan for the bikes described above at 50% to 75% of purchase price, depending on condition of bike, milage etc. Honda covers the bikes with full warranty for 12,000 k or one year whatever comes first. So, what does this example mean to you? For the wealthy, probably nothing, for the not so wealthy it means with a very reasonable amount of your hard earned money, you can fly to Buenos Aires, buy either an NX400 or XR250, tour Argentina and sell your bike back to the dealer for 1/2 or 3/4 what you paid for it new. Or, arrange to sell it to a buddy etc. So let's say you buy an NX400 (the bike I bought new from Jorge Nakandakare and still ride) for $7,000 USD. You tour Argentina for 1 month on the cheap -camping- bush camping - food - gas - fun etc at $25 -50 USD a day totaling: $1,500 USD at $50 USD a day or $750 USD at $25 USD a day. You ride back to Buenos Aires sell your bike to Jorge Nakandakare for 70% of purchase or approximately $5000 USD. With the only real cost of your one month ride around Argentina, the round trip air fare, sea fare or bus fare plus your expenses of approximately $1,500 for the month and the $2000 USD cost of having a brand new NX400 that you may or may not want to sell back to the dealer for approximately $5000 USD. Not a lot of money considering the alternatives. Or, You might consider safely and economically storing your new bike with us, Elisa and I , in Buenos Aires, and have it ready and waiting for your next Tour. Thanks for the generous comments regarding this thread. I will continue posting as long as I believe my posts are of interest to those who might consider buying/touring/selling in Argentina. Many of you are writing me privately at: pcvolunteers800@hotmail.com Comments or experiences welcome, especially from veteran Hubbers, thanks xfiltrate |
Trail Blazing to New Horizons: Buy/Tour/Sell in Argentina
Time for an update. In another thread Goetz asked for the maximum time given for Temporary Import of Motor Vehicles for all countries of South America.
I am hereby tasking myself and some of you, to find out. First, I have discovered that some South American countries (not Argentina) place a stamp in your passport indicating you have entered as a foreign tourist with a bike/motor vehicle. Argentina does not indicate in the tourist's passport that the foreign tourist has entered Argentina with a bike/motor vehicle. What does this mean to the foreign motor tourists who decide to store their bikes in South American countries? In Argentina, foreign motor tourists are able to leave Argentina and return to Argentina without their bike/motor vehicle. The foreign motor tourist can request, upon entry to Argentina, a temporary motor vehicle import permit for up to 8 months. I have personally seen Argentine temporary motor vehicle permits issued for up to one year. The law states 8 months. At this point, I do not know the laws of other South American countries. Once the bike/motor vehicle info is entered into a foreign motor tourist's passport, whether or not that foreign motor tourist can legally leave other South American countries without the bike/motor vehicle? Please help Goetz and others by accurately answering the following questions: 1. Do you know any South American countries that DO NOT stamp the passport of incoming foreign motor tourists with the fact that the foreign motor tourist entered with a bike/motor vehicle? 2. Do you know any South American countries that DO stamp the passports of incoming foreign motor tourists with the fact that the foreign motor tourist entered with a bike/motor vehicle? 3. Do you know the maximum length of time for a temporary motor vehicle import permit issued to a foreign motor tourist , for any South American country? Please post your information on this thread as it will be helpful to those wanting to Buy/Tour/Sell in Argentina and to others. thankyou Jeff Condon rolled in this morning. His 1974 Citroen 3cv performed admirably for its 1000 K break in run to the beaches of Argentina. He will be off again soon. Keep checking this thread for a new topic: "How a foreign tourist can legally sell a foreign registered bike in Argentina," And, of course, check in for the "How to legally tour all of South America and the Sell in Argentina" info this thread is designed to provide you. President Cristina, just elected, just added 600 new traffic police to the streets of Buenos Aires, after an alarming number of highway deaths and street crimes have been reported for 2007. A young man from France, second in a couple days, stopped by wanting to buy a Norton in Buenos Aires for the purpose of doing Che's ride. Interesting! Any one selling a Norton in Buenos Aires? xfiltrate |
Trail blazing to New Horizons: Buy/Tour/Sell - Argentina
New developments are as follows. The Frenchman returned, met Jeff Condon and they will be driving to La Platta 80K and Rosario 400K to check out two Nortons.
Now prepared with the data provided in this thread, plus the advantage of the real experience of already buying used in Argentina, the Frenchman and Jeff feel confident not only with their substantial abilities to determine the mechanical condition of the Norton, but with their data base regarding documentation and potential transfer of title. The Frenchman quickly applied for and received his "domocillio" from his local police district and next week will obtain his CDI from the appropriate AFIP office. (see info, this thread, for definitions of "Domocillio" and CDI, and the importance for a foreign tourist to secure these documents if purchasing a new or used bike in Argentina) The information below is requested and will be included in the upcoming "TOUR ALL OF SOUTH AMERICA," part of this thread. When this thread is over, and hundreds more foreign tourists are purchasing new or used bikes in Argentina, legally touring all of South America and then selling or parking their bikes in Argentina, how will you answer the this question? DID I HELP? - Now is your chance to help if you can answer any of the following questions. 1. Do you know any South American countries that DO NOT stamp the passport of incoming foreign motor tourists with the fact that the foreign motor tourist entered with a bike/motor vehicle? 2. Do you know any South American countries that DO stamp the passports of incoming foreign motor tourists with the fact that the foreign motor tourist entered with a bike/motor vehicle? 3. Do you know the maximum length of time for a temporary motor vehicle import permit issued to a foreign motor tourist , for any South American country? Please post your information on this thread as it will be helpful to those wanting to Buy/Tour/Sell in Argentina and to others. It will be greatly appreciated. thank you xfiltrate |
Great thread! Thanx for all your effort. Here's my contribution: Mexico does not stamp the bike into your passport, but their computer system is far more advanced than all the other countries in L.America. Don't think you can fool them! I entered Guatemala Jan 13/07. You only get stamped into Guatemala and out of Nicaragua, there are no immigration stamps for El Salvador, Honduras and Nicaragua, BUT, only Honduras stamps the BIKE into your passport. I believe all countries provide a three month permit or less. Costa Rica is not part of the immigration alliance but does not stamp the bike into your passport. Panama is a different story, here i had to purchase two "sticker" stamps for $10 and put them into my passport, then the guy in Aduana placed his stamps on top of these, so my bike was indeed stamped into Panama, but i have heard mixed reviews on this, YMMV. Neither Colombia or Ecuador stamp the bike into your passport. I have flown from both countries while my bike was in the country without any problems.
In review, the countries that stamp your bike into your passport are only Honduras and Panama. The countries that do not stamp the bike into your passport are Mexico, Guatemala, El Salvador, Nicaragua, Costa Rica, Colombia and Ecuador. Sorry, i can't comment on Belize, Venezuela, Brazil, Peru, Bolivia, Chile, Paraguay, Uruguay or Argentina. |
Quote:
As to the girlfriend....a picture says a 1000 words... ;o) |
Dear 412driver
Dear 412driver, You have certainly made your point that a "picture is worth a thousand words" by including a self portrait with your generous post.
Just this morning Jeff once again streaked out of Buenos Aires in his newly restored yellow 1974 Citroen 3cv, named "Cristina" you know the one with the two cylinder 600 cc engine. He is headed for the falls in the triple corners area. If Jeff had a "girlfriend," I might be able to comply with your request for a picture. Unfortunately, starting with the letter A, Jeff has four Alejandras. I have personally observed, (not with quite the same flare of observation, as you exhibit in your 1000 word + self portrait), 2 of the 4 Alejandras. I know only of other 2 Alejandras from hearing sounds in the night. Jeff rented our adjoining private room with private entrance and bath. The 2, I have met are, as I said, hot, hot, hot. It is doubtful that Jeff with his multi-alphabetical callings, would be willing to post a picture of his "girlfriend." Please consider there are four girlfriends with names beginning with the letter A. Not to mention the remaining 26 letters of the alphabet, many of each representing more or less the same number of "girlfriends," I sincerely hope this does not disappoint you, but am relieved that you look so very contented as you are, without the advantage of yet, one more photo of one more beautiful woman. Could you please share the secrete of your very obvious state of serenity with us? Serenity: the state of being of not needing or wanting anything. As is my accepted task of providing needed and wanted information to foreign moto tourists, I will pass on your request to Jeff. Much stranger things have happened, he might comply, he is a giver. Thank you for your kind acknowledgment of this thread. xfiltrate |
In my experience
1- Countries that do not stamp your vehicule in your passport Argentina, Bolivia, Chile, Paraguay, Brazil 2- Countries that do stamp your vehicule in your passport Venezuela : Duration 3 month 3- Maximum duration Argentina 8 month (12 Month at the borders to Tierra del Fuego) In Paraguay, at the border with Argentina coming from Formosa, they refused to give me an customs import paper, but rules there are unclear, due to the high level of corruption. |
Thanks you for sharing your experiences
Thanks Voteks, I will incorporate your valuable data into data base of upcoming simplified edition of this thread.
Now I am feeling a bit more contented and *serene. Your efforts are appreciated. Where are you now? Might I list you as a consultant for this thread? Many have questions, few have been forthcoming with accurate answers like you, but we are changing that thanks to experienced riders like yourself. thanks xfiltrate * please refer to 2 posts immediately preceding your post. |
I m in Santa Elena de Uairen, Gran Savana, at the border between Brazil and Venezuela.
If you have any question about those countries, feel free to send me private messages. I dont need any official recognition for those informations...this is not a work, just leisure time. Helping others is very egotistical since it makes you feel better. I m not an experienced rider, I m a tourist travelling with a convenient means of transportation. Regards Philippe Edited to add a post scriptum : I wonder why anybody willing to travel on a bike in South America should buy a motorcycle in Argentina with all the paper trouble while it s cheaper and way faster to do it in Paraguay...I m confused here... |
To feel good or not to feel good?
Yes, we agree that helping others makes one feel good.
The psychiatrists did their best to destroy that feeling and the concept of helping others, by inventing (absolute academic fabrication) the concept of EGO. In my opinion, there is no such thing as EGO, it is only a fabrication much like the multitude of other psychiatric illnesses like hyper activity, attention deficit disorder, manic depressive, etc. etc etc, each justifying a part of the billion dollar pharmaceutical industry that creates, markets and sell pills that treat symptoms and not causes of mental illnesses. While I respect your point of view, the feeling of goodness I experience when helping others is real for me and since I believe that the concepts of id, ego and super ego, created by a drug addicted psychiatrist named Dr. Freud, whose work, except for his research into sexuality, has been proven not to help in the treatment of mental illness and has been heavily discounted by modern psycho therapists. Matter of fact the state of psycho therapy is in such shambles today that 1/3 of all mental patients get better, 1/3 get worst, and 1/3 stay exactly the same no matter what manner of treatment they receive., including pills, injections and electroshock, all form of psychology, psychiatry . The exact same statistic is true for mental patients if left alone (not treated in any way) and given only friendship, food and shelter. This is a replicable fact proven over and over by many different studies and with extensive peer review panels. Of course, this is not good news for the big pharmaceutical companies, but even the studies funded by pharmaceutical companies yielded the same results. I am speaking here to mental illness only. Dietary changes and the discovery that mental illness can be caused by allergies to certain foods is the only treatment that has been proven to be more sucessful than the above described model. I do believe, if a person is ethical, the natural state is to help others and the act of helping others survive is rewarded with a feeling of goodness. Best high I know. xfiltrate |
Trail Blazing to New Horizons: Buy/Tour/Sell in Argentina
This thread has possibly generated more questions than it has answered. I am being inundated with questions via e-mail and telephone. Don't stop, it is how we grow.
If I am slow in posting an answer to your particular question, it might be because the answer requires research. For example, Jeff, a foreign tourist from New Zealand, bought a 1974 Citroen 3cv legally, in Buenos Aires and is now touring. Each step of the his purchase was carefully monitored and reported here. With the information already provided, any foreign tourist now has the information necessary to buy a new or used bike/motor vehicle in Argentina. Update on Jeff: last significant communication via texted telephone messages stated. "I forgot my cup, I am 250 k out can you bring it to me?" Reply: "NO!" Next Message: No worries mate, I found an old bottle and cut it in half and now i have a cup. You can see by his eloquent style that he is doing well and probably drinking a beer. SELL IN ARGENTINA Next up is the SELL part of this thread. A few questions regarding how a foreign tourist can sell a foreign registered bike in Argentina have come in . I tried to deal with one of those questions in another thread entitled: "Selling moto in Chile/Arg to another traveller - process please?" by TSJourney I caution readers, and as stated in my post that tread, (see other thread for my comments) my idea may or may not work. NOTE: I am currently in the "process" of registering a foreign registered bike in Argentina and will post the exact process over the next couple weeks, or months. At first blush, it appears that the foreign tourist "owner" should register his/her bike in Argentina. This would require the services of a GESTOR (one who transfers motor vehicle titles as a business). The GESTOR must be provided the original clear title and registration of the bike AND, have the bike available for determination of value by ADUANA (customs). The foreign moto tourist will probably pay an "import tax" at 40% of the appraised value of the bike. This percentage might vary depending on the type of bike, year the bike was manufactured and the appraised value itself. Once the import taix is paid, the bike can now be registered in Argentina, I think. This process will be done by my GESTOR and I will post in detail for you. THIS IS MY BEST GUESS AT THIS POINT! Once the bike is registered in Argentina, simply reverse the BUY part of this thread and the bike can then be sold to another foreign tourist or an Argentine. ADDITIONAL NOTE: After a short test ride on my Honda Falcon, and deciding that finding and restoring a NORTON was too timely and expensive, one of the two Frenchmen who visited with us, has identified a used Honda Falcon, NX400 for sale here, and armed with the information in this thread, is attempting to purchase it for the purpose of touring South America. As far as I know he is not planning on having an Argentine *co-owner, but will take his chances crossing into Chile as a foreign tourist riding an Argentine registered bike. As I learn more, I will post. *See earlier posts, this thread, regarding a workable plan for a foreign tourist riding an Argentine bike can tour all of South America. So, another example of buying used in Argentina is in the works and the SELL part of this thread is just starting. YOU CAN HELP! 1. Do you know any South American countries that DO NOT stamp the passport of incoming foreign motor tourists with the fact that the foreign motor tourist entered with a bike/motor vehicle? 2. Do you know any South American countries that DO stamp the passports of incoming foreign motor tourists with the fact that the foreign motor tourist entered with a bike/motor vehicle? 3. Do you know the maximum length of time for a temporary motor vehicle import permit issued to a foreign motor tourist , for any South American country? Please post your information on this thread as it will be helpful to those wanting to Buy/Tour/Sell in Argentina and to others. It will be greatly appreciated. thank you xfiltrate |
Uruguay
Hi Eduard
I was told and had the chance to see the passport of a german friend that entered and left Uruguay with bike that the only mark he got on his passport was an pencil(graphite) marking as "moto". Easy to erase. Maximum time in Uruguay is 12 month. Again i can´t confirm if they stamp,mark on or just do nothing on your passport.This was the only case i asked.Will be opening eyes now. Good luck on your research! Karl |
Thanks BCK_973
Thank you for the information about URUGUAY. If you travel to URUGUAY on Boquebus (the ferry) from Buenos Aires, your bike and you are definitely linked by computer. I have not entered URUGUAY by land or bridge, so any info is indeed welcome.
Now about PARAGUAY! ---At this point in time, any info regarding the "on the ground realities" about PARAGUAY is also wanted and needed. From what I have experienced and what has been related to me by those with first hand experience, PARAGUAY is governed like a frontier western town of the mid to late 19th century in the good ol USA. I could be wrong here, and will revise as others contribute experiences. For some PARAGUAY , just being PARAGUAY is very interesting and an absolute favorite for real adventurers. Please check the experience I had in obtaining a visa for PARAGUAY on a thread by Gotogoto entitled: Does Paraguay still have a $50 tourist visa fee? Thanks again, xfiltrate |
As European, i didnt need to pay anything to enter the country.
First time i crossed the border at Clorinda, i went thru the ferry gate as it shortens the riding distance to Asuncion by 40 km. When i debarked, i was given a small piece of paper with a number and was told to show it at the border while coming back at the same border. I went back to the very same border crossing the rio paraguay by ferry, but the border was closed (it closes on week end) I didnt feel like going back to the down and riding by night back to Argentina, so i asked how i could cross. The police officers told me i could cross with the motorcycle on a small row boat. Then they asked me a 50 pesos fine "for staying less than 3 days with the vehicule" in the country. This law of course doesnt exist, it was just a way to ask a propina for the "service". Once crossed i went to the main road border at Clorinda and did the Argentine entrance, which took some time since they had to check if my story was true. The second time i crossed the border, this time on the main road entrance, I asked for if i needed any special paper, but the clerk just answered no and i entered the country with no problem, with vehicule unknown by the administration. The third time, i took the ferry again. This time i was given an importation paper for 15 days (i said i didnt need more to cross the country). All luggage was checked and my argentine friend got body controlled in the office. They had a record of the motorcycle in the computer from the first time i crossed. When i asked why i wasnt given any document at the main entrance, they couldnt explain and said that like any country you need to declare your vehicule. Looks like officers at the main border just dont want to bother with papers as they mainly get argentine visitors that dont need to declare their vehicule (Mercosur) When i left the country at the northern border (Punta Pora) I left the paper at the aduana. They promissed to process it the day after since it was Xmas. But i could have left without giving it anyways since there is no border control there, the street making a border with the brazilian side of the town. BTW, i need to enquiere more but it seems that it could be bought a new motorcycle at bargain price in Venezuela. Vehicules are imported at the official change ( one dollar = 2 bolivares) but due to the foreign currency exchange control, many venezuelians have accounts overseas and willing to buy hard currencies at the price of bonds ( one dollar = 5 bolivares ). So in theory you could buy a new or used motorcycle at 40% of its price. I didnt do it practically so this has to be investigated |
Thank you Vorteks, your are a real trail blazer!
Any one who can add to Voteks post or share experiences like his is certainly welcome here. Wow, the mystery of Paraguay is staring to unravel. Good.
Vorteks, I have not heard of such a favorable currency exchange in Venezuela, but it sure sounds worthy of investigating. I welcome any comments in regards to buying a bike there. Information has been provided in this thread that enables anyone to buy a new or used bike/motor vehicle in Argentina and legally register it in Argentina. My next task will be to provide all the information necessary for a foreign moto tourist, riding a foreign registered bike, to legally register, store or sell that bike in Argentina. If there is any interest in learning how to do this, or if anyone knows how to register a foreign registered bike in Argentina, please post, if no one posts, I'll probably carry on anyway, just because someone, one day, might travel this path, and might find this information useful. So, first step, call your neighborhood GESTOR (one who transfers vehicle titles as a business). I have a call in now...As soon as I learn more, I will share it with you. We still need data on length of temporary vehicle import permits for all Central and South American countries. Veterans please post. Thanks xfiltrate |
A friend from europe asked me yesterday if he could register his bike overthere(arg).So i called today a friend who makes all that paper work on cars and bikes(Gestores) and this last one told me that they are comming frosty times with forign registered vehicles here.After the corruption affair with diplomatics cars entered as "exceptions" and those where sold as legit imported,tha AFIP will be looking much more closely on foreign vehicles.Hopefully it is just anothe mediatic measure for tv and not a real "improuvement" in marking passports or restricting periods on the borders!
Lets just wait and see. As more data is collect i will post here. Karl |
Diplomatic Shuffle- trail blazing to new horizons...
Karl, you are certainly up on current affairs here, or should I say diplomatic affairs. If you want to know the inside story on the hundreds of luxury SUVs and fancy sports cars brought in by "diplomats" and sold to wealthy locals without paying a substantial import tax, here it is.
What started as a nice little plot to put another nail in the coffin of a diplomatic career had tremendous blow back. The diplomat was targeted by intelligence operatives from another embassy and when the blackmail threat failed, those operatives used locals denounce the diplomat who rolled over on others as a way out. Some of the big boys at the big embassies took note and began cover operations for their own diplomats, operatives and locals, which meant turning over other diplomats, etc.... You probably noticed that the United States Embassy slid through all this, except for the very first of many, many front page reports, in all the local daily newspapers. And that the photo of the Russian Ambassador, the Russians have not been charged in this affair, was perched atop a long list of the 40 or so "other" diplomats that were eventually hit with interviews from Argentine authorities. A special court has been established to handle those who are charged or will be charged, because most involved do hold diplomatic immunity from Argentine law. As one might expect diplomats from Uruguay were hit the hardest, guess they didn't have anyone to roll over on and it is interesting to note that past diplomats are coming out of the woodwork to proclaim they are innocent. This includes past ambassadors. This scandal has really rocked Buenos Aires because the folks here rich enough to buy the Hummers and Italian sports coars offered by the diplomats are well known and, oh my God, even famous soccer and polo players, and even more interesting from a reporters point of view, actors and actresses. The only things better for the press would be if the hundreds of thousands of US dollars being brought into Argentina illegally, (some say from Venezuela) and confiscated at the airport from a politico, or the $800,000.00 US dollars en route to the Central Bank, that went missing between the airline and the airport, could have been alleged to be connected to buying cars from diplomats. This is just business as usual in the most interesting city in the world. What this might mean to those wanting to legally register foreign registered motos in Argentina is anyone's guess. I guess it will mean absolutely nothing, as long as the foreign registration papers are legal, all legal import taxes due are paid and the moto is legally registered in Argentina. But that is what this thread is all about. Taking the mystery out of title transfers and etc, with a little diplomatic intrigue thrown in once and a while just to keep it interesting... Karl, mil gracias, and looking forward to additional posts from you and your friend. Every detail is greatly appreciated. At the close of this thread we will have a simplified step by step guide that might even prove helpful to the Gestores. Thanks for the input, I see you also live in Buenos Aires, "wanna buy a Hummer?" xfiltrate |
Diplomats/Politicos and new info...
Well, 2 days have passed and I finally had my meet with Patricia "GESTOR" extraordinaire!
IMPORTANT NOTE: But first, we wish Daniel a speedy recovery, and anyone with a bike that needs rescue on Ruta 3 please contact Tedmagnum or Javier. Please see thread "Do you need your motorcycle....on Ruta 3" With Tedmagnum and Javier helping out, I am sure Daniel and his bike will be fine. And, it seems Ted is looking for a front disc for his XT600, please see his "Anyone flying into Buenos Aires...., thread. OK , Starting this month there has been a new development regarding the sale of used motor vehicles and motos in Argentina. Now, any sale of a motor vehicle more than $30,000 pesos, about $10,000 USD must be reported to "AFIP." "AFIP" is the agency where foreigners go to get their CDI as described earlier in this thread. Also, any property sales greater than $300,000 pesos about $100,000 USD must now also be reported to AFIP. This info is from CLAIRIN page 13...Lunes 03mar08. Undoubtably Karl , BCK-_973 was right, and this probably is a reaction to the diplomats getting caught selling high end vehicles to rich Argentines, after having entered the vehicles, on diplomatic credentials, and without paying import tax. So, when buying used keep it under $30,000 pesos and no worries. Otherwise, make sure the sale gets reported to AFIP on the proper form. Now, here is what I learned today, not much, but hopefully helpful. Apparently not just any GESTOR can handle the Argentine registration of a foreign registered bike. Most good GESTORS, like ours, Patricia, have brokers that work everyday with the officials of the aduana (customs). Patricia dutifully took copies of forign title and other documents, I will describe later, and in the morning she is off to meet her broker who works everyday with aduana officials. TO GET THE REAL STORY. From what I learned today, an official of the aduana (customs) will visit the bike, as the bike may not be legal to ride on the streets. This official will assign, based on a ""predetermined value guide" of sorts, a value to the bike. Depending on the assigned value of the bike, type, year, etc. (this is guesswork here) a % of that value will be the amount of import tax due to aduana (customs) before the bike can be titled in Argentina. Also, I discovered today that there exists not only "tarjetas verdes " (green cards) owner registration card, but "tarjetas azules" (blue cards), available at registration or thereafter. The blue cards "tarjetas azules" are new to me, but apparently are issued on request of the owner in the name of another person(s), who have the owner's permission to ride the bike. My Gestor told me this would include being able to travel across the Argentine border with the bike. We shall see, we shall see. In my haste to keep you updated, the above data has yet to be actually tested. It certainly will be, so check in frequently. And, we still need any data available regarding length of stay for temporary import permits for all of Central and South America. Also, it would be good to know which countries identify (place stamp in passport or link via computer) the foreign motor tourist with his/her vehicle/bike and which don't. Tomorrow should bring you a "check sheet" for transferring a foreign registered title to an Argentine title for a motor vehicle/ bike. I hope, it may be slow going once the aduana gets involved! If anyone has had experience registering a foreign registered vehicle/bike in Argentina, we welcome your comments. thanks, xfiltrate |
Buying in Peru?
What a mine of information this thread is becoming!
I've been following it closely as it may well help us out with our South America trip, planned for next year, which has hit a problem. The original idea was to buy a bike in North America (cheap, easily registered) and then ride all the way down. Trouble is my partner has a back problem which has recently got worse and she has been told by Medical professionals not to ride any distance on a motorcycle...!! :censored: As you can imagine, this was not well received and normally she'd do what she wants rather than what she's told but she can't even get on the bike at the moment. Her plan is to be well enough to make it to the UK Horizons meeting in July, insh'allah! :mchappy: It could be a problem on an extensive tour of Latin America though, which is where this thread comes in. If we can't do it on a bike, rather than just give up-Never!-why not fly straight to SA and buy a car? I'm not really into cars but I love the idea of a 2cv!! And I think it could be done on our "bike" budget. What I really need to find out is if the same plan will work in Peru, as we have a contact there who may be able to act as the "local" half of the deal. Thanks for all the work thats going into this, I'm sure a lot of people will benefit from it:biggrin3: |
Quote:
|
Viva Francais1
Do I have a story to tell. I am so excited I can't spit.
First, thanks Voteks and Crusty, for your interest and words of encouragement. It helps keep me going. Yeah, I really fell in love with Jeff's 1974 Citroen 3cv. Repairs and parts are dirt cheap here and available. For a thousand dollars you can replace literally everything that is replaceable...We also test drove an older 2cv, removable doors, seats and fold back roof, unbelievable and cheap, cheap cheap! Jeff is still on his way to the Falls, will return Buenos Aires in about 2 weeks. He was waylaid outside Cordoba by 4 beautiful Argentine fashion models, and it took him a while to extract himself. No kidding, while he was having his gearbox replaced, (approx: $100.00 USD) the son, of his Citroen rally racing expert mechanic, rolled in from Buenos Aires. The mechanics son, and this can only happen to Ramblin Man Jeff Condon, is a famous fashion designer who hangs out with the likes of Ralph Lauren etc and of course, in tow, were four the beautiful runway models, who all immediately fell in love with Jeff. I have never met a luckier man in my life! Anyway, as you know by this thread, either a Citroen, any other motor vehicle or a bike is buyable in Buenos Aires by a foreign tourist. Now on to the next purchase. This time it is a 2003 Honda NX400 falcon, a great dual purpose South American tourer, I have one myself. OK, how do I explain Francais? A young Frenchman dropped by, who is an exceptionally smart young man. He is 19 years old. He siglehandedly decided to fly into Buenos Aires, buy a bike and tour South America, then sell the bike and return to school in France. Francais has been keeping me posted and asking advice through out the procedure of obtaining his "domocilio" and then his CDI from AFIP. He was kind enough to provide me a list of the AFIP offices that correspond with the various barrios of Buenos Aires. One must go to the AFIP office corresponding to the address on one's "domocilio." (see detailed eplanation of this earlier in thread) Francais had an unexpected problem. His age! While he is emancipated in France, not so in Argentina, until 21 years old. So he had to go to the French Embassy and get a document stating he had all the rights and privileges of an adult in France. i am sure this had to be in Spanish, and then had to be legalized, at an Argentine government office. More about this process later. Second unexpected problem was transferring $5030.00 to the bank account of the seller of the NX400. $5030.00 is $30.00 dollars over the limit allowed by wire transfer into an Argentines account. The money is in limbo. Meanwhile, I will present here two alternatives, one use a credit card to extract large sums of money at Banco Superville located at Reconquista 330. While ATMs have a #100.00 to $300.00 dollar limit per day, this bank, and it is the only one in Buenos Aires I have found, allows withdrawals on credit cards up to the limit of the card. YOU MUST BRING YOUR PASSPORT AND GO TO A BANK MANAGER WITH YOUR REQUEST. Or two, have money sent to you in Buenos Aires via Western Union. In both instances the cash will be paid you in Argentine pesos, NOT DOLLARS. Elisa, Jeff and I have all withdrawn, on our respective credit cards Banco Superville (at location specified above only) sums in excess of $5,000.00 USD in less than 1 hour time. SECURITY IS IMPORTANT, DO NOT WALK IN THE STREETS OF BUENOS AIRES WITH A LOT OF CASH, ESPECIALLY LEAVING A BANK. YOU CAN RESERVE A ROOM AT THE BANK AND HAND OVER YOUR CASH TO THE SELLER RIGHT AFTER WITHDRAWAL. THAT IS IF THE MOTOR VEHCICLE/BIKE HAS ALREADY HAD TITLE TRANSFERRED TO YOU! OR, TRAVELERS CHECKS ARE AVAILABLE AT THIS BANK, AND THE AMERICAN EXPRESS OFFICE AT PARQUE SAN MARTIN HAS A PRIVATE ROOM TO HAND OVER CASH, SO YOU COULD GET YOUR FUNDS IN TRAVELERS CHECKS, CASH THEM AT THE AMERICAN EXPRESS OFFICE AND HAND OVER CASH TO SELLER THERE. THERE WILL BE FEES INVOLVED, FOR BUYING AND CASHING THE TRAVELERS CHECKS. IN GENERAL ONLY THE LARGER HOTELS ACCEPT TRAVELERS CHECKS HERE, AND NOT ALL DO. FORGET ABOUT USING TRAVELERS CHECKS ON THE STREETS! Francais managed to convince the seller to release the NX400 to him while the bank sorts out accepting the transfer. Francais is having "Pato," amigo and located a couple blocks from Mariano at Motocare, create custom racks and panniers for his tour. He has purchased needed gear, tools and spare parts at AVANT Motos, corner of Pueyredon and Cordoba. This young man knows what he is about. I expect him to be rich and famous one day. Remember, he is only 19 years old! He is tri-lingual French, Spanish and English and a super moto cross champion. He was the man originally looking to buy a Norton and follow the route of Che Guevara. He visited Customs and determined, as reported earlier in this thread it is illegal for a foreign tourist to leave Argentina with a bike registered in Argentina. Also reported, is a workable plan to do this and the fact that many foreign tourists have crossed into Chile with bikes purchased and registered in Argentina. Elisa and I did it at Paso de Hama 2 years ago, before I got my DNI (Argentine residence permit.) Francais will update me as he attempts to cross into Chile, and I will dutifully post here. Meanwhile, still no response to my questions regarding registering a foreign registered bike here in Argentina. My "Gestor" is on it, and I am sort of educating her and the Aduana officials (Customs) about the 1954 and later laws governing motor vehicle title transfers from one country to another for the countries who signed the 1954 agreement. Fortunately, Argentina and USA both signed, but the Argentines don't seem to remember this agreement at all. I'll probably end up putting on a seminar for aduana officials here before this thread is over. Yes, fly to Buenos Aires, buy a 2cv or a bike and tour. Life is good. Let's all give a big thank you to Francais. He truly is an amazing young man. xfiltrate |
2 remarks on your previous message.
I lost/got stolen my credit card in B.As last year. Visa sent me 1000 Euros in DOLLARS thru Western Union. It had to be withdrawn at the central office in B.As (near the Obelisque) since other offices dont hold so much currency. Speaking 3 languages is a standard for a young European, since learning 2 other european languages is compulsary at school and teaching techniques are now very efficient. Just spend a few nights in a Youth Hostel in B.As and you ll find out fairly soon. |
Good and Interesting Info + Updates
Vorteks, I was not aware of cash availability problem of Western Union. Good to know that only the main office can handle large cash transfers. Might be a good place for the foreign buyer to turn over the cash to the local seller of the bike, or have 2 or 3 Western Union money grams sent to avoid being in the streets with all the money.
Yes, many Europeans I have met at hostels are tri- lingual. I thought it a select group of international travelers, I did not know that most young Europeans speak 3 languages. I do know that young Francais does, and does so fluently. Still nothing from Francais, regarding "limit" on transfer of funds nor anything from Ramblin Man Jeff Condon, other than at a Police checkpoint RT. 14, he managed to avoid a $1,000.00 peso fine for driving his Citroen 3cv without shoes. I asked him how he avoided the fine he said " I just looked down and kept shaking my heard NO until they gave up" This took 2 hours....NOTE: Keep your shoes on for Police checkpoints with driving a motor vehicle in Argentina. As far as the Harley now with a title from the USA and on the way to an Argentine title nothing new yet. I get the idea it is not done very often here and officials are scrambling to meet the request....I am on it. xfiltrate |
Xfiltrate
I am now in Buenos Aires. Can we , please, meet up.
Do you have a telephone number or e:mail address ? Great news on the recovery of your friend´s Harley. Gratias |
Let's meet! + Update
Canxcape, can't give my e-mail here as per HUBB protection from "bots," but send me a private message and yes, let's get together.
Yes, finding the Harley was a great HUBB team effort. Attempting to register the Harley in Argentina has become a real chess game, with each player moving the pieces very, very slowly. Right now, I am waiting for my GESTOR tp set up a meet with her "Pochante" or customs broker. He will be able to set up a meet with the customs inspector responsible for placing a value on the bike and determining the amount of import duty payable. This is not happening very fast, but it will happen and I will post here. There are several other "title" issues being resolved concurrently. Martin is also providing technical support, and I am learning a lot. No news from Francais, I am going to "assume" here that his wire transfer, which exceeded the amount permitted by banking law, is still being resolved by the seller and his bank, and that I will hear from him soon. Please everyone reading here, check out post regarding the missing couple in Tunisia, Travellers' Advisories, Safety and Security on the Road. xfiltrate |
Used vehicles imposible except.......
Used non registered in argentina are forbidden to(import) register by law,except you are an native argentinian who has at least lived two full years(with fixed adress) in the exterior.
The vehicle must be used and need an minimum of milage done. Even so you need to pay the AFIP the 52% of the value of the vehicle that the aduana(customs) has in his records.It doesn´t matter if you bring an invoice.They have this magic table with values by model and year.Condition does not matter eather!!! So i think it will be a dificult task to register that Harley propperly here. That is why they give all tourists the benefit of the "max 8 month" tax free time! Is my personal believe not to offer any state agent the idea of doing it by the dark path! Ansious to hear more details on the process. Karl |
Thanks for the info
BCK_973, could you please reference the Argentine laws, of which you speak?
Especially the law that .....PROHIBITS ALL,...... except "native" Argentines, who, have lived a minimum of two years, with a fixed address, in another country, AND want to pay an import fee of 52 % based upon a "magic table," used to determine value of the vehicle. I have researched back to the International Agreements and Accords of 1954,spending tens of hours.... regarding importing foreign registered vehicles, and have discovered no such law. Please reference the law, I do not doubt that some variation of this law exists, I just have not found it yet. I have discovered that foreign residents of Argentina with a DNI have all the rights and privileges of "any" resident of Argentina, and I have not found the term "native" in any law. Have you? I am sure, by now, you know neither my actions nor my advice will lead down the "dark path," if you mean by that, illegal activities. I will not! And I will continue to advise others against the "dark path" as I have in the past, will continue to do so. My friend, that is what this thread is all about doing things in the light! Taking the mystery and covertness out of, and making the Argentine vehicle LAWS available to everyone to understand and to follow. Thanks for your comments, I will continue to post as I learn more. it will be helpful to reference the laws of which you speak. xfiltrate |
This is the firts extract
http://www.bybsa.com.ar/files/13092004/dec_597_99.pdf
This is the modified law.When i was in germany and wanted to import my german registered G/S i started the legal process in Düsseldorf.(at the argentine embassy) They gave me this telefone number(internet in 92 was not so widespread yet) to talk to this aduana agent. He explaint me all the legal matters as being "argentino nativo".At that time was two years.Today the minimum time is less,1 year only.Read on the PDF file. I will be getting the propper tax calculation the next days. The above reply was not sent to your person Eduard.I know and you stated very clear "TO PUT LIGTH" into it. I meant the traveller who maybe is tempted to do the "dark path". Many "gestores" are tempted to do the easy(Dark) way just to get your $$$$$$. As soon i get that second pdf i will be posting it. Karl |
Back in the Saddle, Trail Blazing to New Horizons: Buy?Sell AR.
This investigator of para normal events, like foreign tourists legally purchasing motorcycles in Buenos Aires, touring South America, and then legally selling or storing that motorcycle in Argentina, and investigating UFO sightings and unexplainable cattle transporting and mutilations in the Pampas of Argentina has been very busy "remote viewing" the fate of two road tripping Austrian tourists, abducted in Tunisia.
Just so you know, each remote viewing session takes more than half a day, and follows an exact protocol. It is impossible for me to view events in the context of time, for time is a man made construct. With rigorous effort I can differentiate "change" and, in a manner of speaking assign time based on observed changes. Common belief, and international media, now indicate that data I posted, before news of an abduction broke, on: Travellers' Advisories, Safety and Security on the Road thread, about the "missing couple" appears to be true. I have also posted the following in the HU BAR - a nice place where "anyone worth his salt eventually ends up. "Please note the use of the word game has no positive or negative connotation. As it states in the dictionary, a game is played according to the rules, toward a specific goal. That's it. The point of view of the captors (the ones who took the Austrians) might be that their "brothers" were also taken hostage and being held against their will. I, personally, doubt the "brothers" in question were just doing the tourist thing in far off lands, and more likely were on some kind of a mission, with a goal, much more important to them, than just having a great road trip. I may be wrong, but I believe the "brothers" entered the game, knew the rules and decided to play. On the other hand, the Austrian couple's goal was to have a great road trip, they went to Tunisia, a sort of tourist destination, knew those rules and decided to play. They had little or no interest in playing any other game, beyond having a great road trip. Apparently, on behalf of the "brothers" the captors decided to change the rules in the middle of the game for the Austrian couple. They have been forced into a game they never wanted to play. The world has taken note of this event, the true heart and spirit of the "brothers" will be on the stage of public opinion no matter how this game ends. I know, in my well worn heart, that this game will end soon and the world will rejoice as the Austrians return to their home, with a story to tell the world." RELIEF AT HAND! Courage now! As you see, I am convinced the two Austrian hostages will be safely home soon, via my remote viewing sessions, I have discovered much, much more about this situation than I knew during my initial posts. My problem is, how to share this data in a meaningful way with others, who have no knowledge of the effectiveness of "remote viewing?" BACK TO TRAIL BLAZING OK, I have some great news. I received a private message from a foreign tourist, who purchased a motorcycle in Chile and has successfully ridden across the border into Argentina. She obtained a "PADRON" for the bike in Chile, which apparently permitted her to leave Chile with her new bike. I have invited her to post details here. All you others wanting to do the same, should check back for her report. Jeff Condon is due back in Buenos Aires, Sunday. He made it to the falls and I am sure my next post will be full of his adventures driving a Citroen 3cv legally purchased in Buenos Aires, while a foreign tourist from New Zealand. Francais, a young foreign tourist from France, was due to stop by yesterday for a photo shoot before departing for his ride on his recently purchased NX400 Honda Falcon. He was happy with the rack and panniers custom built by "Pato" and some how has resolved his bank wire transfer glitch. He was scheduled to pick up his "tarjeta verde" for the bike yesterday. He did not show up nor call, so perhaps there was yet another complication. Will keep posting as information comes in. We are about to launch into the Argentine registration of one Harley Davidson 883 Sportster, currently legally registered in the United States. I have amassed volumes of information and have taken note of the "Diplomatic Scandal" that has recently rocked this city regarding "diplomats" who have used their diplomatic credentials to enter foreign registered vehicles and then illegally sold them to Argentines, without paying the proper imortation taxes. We are going to register the Harley legally and report the process here. Everything mentioned above is coming up, stay tuned. Please forgive my absence, I was spending time in the HU BAR seeking comfort for some recent misunderstandings. Elisa, a beautiful and intelligent woman, who has ridden 12,000 K through 5 South American countries on her Honda XR250 Tornado, and who I am so fortunate to be with, says to you: stop running into things and don't fall off your motorcycles, it makes her nervous. Be careful out there. xfiltrate |
Updates: Trail Blazing to New Horizons
While those of us interested in the fate of the Austrian hostages taken in Tunisia wait for them to be released, life goes on.
Update One: Jeff Condon has returned from the falls and the jungles. As usual he has had adventures of epic proportions. For one, his 1974 Citroen 3cv, actually a 2 wheel drive version of the best 4 wheel drive vehicles available today, mudded in on a steep incline of mud rocks and more loose mud. He and an Australian catching a ride with him, walked for a day until they found a logging camp, spent the night with the loggers, and with the help of heavy machinery hoisted the little Citroen over the mud hill, and off they went toward a water fall that is reported to be 3 K wide. Of note here, is the fact that Jeff, bought his Citroen in Buenos Aires, from an Argentine owner, titled it in his name, and with the proper documents, "tarjeta verde," insurance card, driver licenses, New Zealand, and International, been able to drive almost 4000 K through Argentina through numerous check points and provincial border checks, with no "document" problems!!! Update Two: Francais, the young Frenchman is "on the road." Although he called several times before leaving BA, we were not able to meet for a photo opt and goodbyes. He found a 2 year old NX400 Honda Falcon, and bought it, in Buenos Aires. He paid for it and had the title transferred to his name. He obtained his "tarjeta verde" and purchased insurance. In *one month, expending about $6,000.00 USD, including rack and pannier construction and purchase of all gear, Francais, on his own, and he is only 19 years old, found, purchased, and put a touring package on a 2 year old NX400 Honda Falcon and is currently en route for the border with Chile. * at least a week was lost while a local bank sorted out a wire transfer problem. Update Three: Transfer of USA titled Harley Davidson to Argentine title. The title is en route from the States. This process will take off once the USA title in previous owner "or" my name arrives. Plan is to have aduana come out to inspect/value the bike, pay import tax, and register the bike legally in Argentina. This should be interesting, check in later in the week. This process has been slowed considerably waiting for title from the States. Thus far the Argentines have not been responsible for any delay. I have total confidence this process will go smoothly, as the recent "Diplomatic Scandal" caused the downfall of 2 prominent officials here. NO one wants to do anything wrong right now regarding the "import tax issue" and the local press would be on top of any abnormalities in a heartbeat. We will see, We will see. Meanwhile, Jeff on the ground and Marty via e-mail, are stripping and renewing the Harley. La Harley should be up and running perfectly by the end of the week. Please post any info regarding length of temporary import permits all Central and South America, any data regarding foreign tourists buying or selling in Central and South America, and know the Austrians will be safely home soon. xfiltrate. |
3cv capers
Gidday,
it had long since been a dream to travel with one of these incredibly capable and economical little cars. Ever since seeing a doco many years ago as a kid about a couple of guys taking one through Africa. They had painted a map on the bonnet with the frayed end of a matchstick to highlight their route. This memory stuck with me for some reason, anyone else remember this or did I dream it? Anyway you could imagine my excitement when I first came to Argentina in 2005 supporting Globebusters first Trans-Am, these little cars were everywhere! I couldn't believe it. This was the place to make my dreams come true and I haven't been disapointed. If you are considering an alternative and less intrusive way to experience this great region, give one a go. Blasting from Alaska to Ushuaia on a 1200GS was great in 2007, dragging 16 other tourists along with me, not so great but all a little too easy possibly. The 3cv has provided me with a good balance of slow pace, daily driving and maintenance challenges, blending in and at the same time raising enough curiosity from the locals who are quite surprised to see one of these cars going further than to the corner shop. I've had ample opportunities to "get stuck" in various great places while sourcing parts and making repairs (almost daily). These have always been the best memories for me anywhere, forced to stop and having to deal with a problem gives you a chance to really get to know a place and interact with the locals. Perfect. Can't wait for my next breakdown, wonder where it will be? The car which I purchased in Buenos Aires with much help from Ed and Elisa is 35 years old, with a 2 cylinder air cooled engine of 600cc displacement and 32hp. It can drive 20kms on 1 litre of fuel or 100kms for 5 litres. As motorcyclists you'll be pleased to know the soft roof folds all the way back and you can put your helmet on and stand up to simulate being back on a bike. It's off road capabilities are incredible and backed up by high ground clearance and "interesting" suspension it will take you where you won't believe. I tested this quite thoroughly on my drive to Iguazu falls and back, exploring the less tavelled logging tracks in eastern Misiones and a drive into Esteros del Ibera in Corrientes on an aptly named Ruta 40 during a rainstorm (possibly not the Ruta 40 we all love, but similar). I haven't attempted a border crossing yet, no rush, I'm having so much fun in Argy but have plans to drive north again into Uruguay and on to Brasil to continue my research and provide cultural exchanges at some stage soonish. So for me this whole experience has proved highly successful, we have gained knowledge in the dealings of buying and touring with a local vehicle which hopefully others can benefit from. If you are looking for a slightly different challenge, come out here and get into one of these very cool little cars, biking's too easy! Jeff |
Hi,
Do you have a blog or album with photos this ride? |
Blog-less
...eeerr no, no blog but maybe I could work out how to put a photo up on here with some help. Unfortunately I'm technologically retarded, best to stay swinging off spanners and away from the keyboard for me.
sorry |
Break through in Chile Trail Blazing to New Horizons
Soon, foreign tourist jolaglabek will be posting how she legally purchased a used bike in Chile, and discovered the way to obtain a PADRON, and legally leave Chile with her bike.
WOW From what I understand she speaks only basic Spanish and was able to get it right. Please find her posts under other threads, or be sure to check back here, as she has agreed to share her information on this thread. More good news, Marty's 1986 Harley Sportster 883 bored out to 1200 is up and running thanks to FIVE CHAPTERS OF GREAT ADVICE FROM MARTY HIMSELF, the mechanical skills of Ramblin Man Jeff Condon, a new battery and the Harley's disc like points, plus a lot of TLC and general maintenance. I stood around and sweated a lot...until this afternoon when I rode it down the ramps to the entrance of the parking garage and back up. Wow what a thrill. It is an easy rider quite nice, and feels light....This Harley has quite a history. See Marty's thread."Missing moto Argentina" by Martin Alexnder. The paperwork from the States has arrived and Tuesday I have a meet with our GESTOR (one who transfers vehicle titles as a business) and our Dispachante (aduana broker) to determine the process for legally registering the Harley in Argentina. We are full bore into the Easter Holidays here and nothing official is happening until Tuesday, so please excuse this delay. I know some of you are waiting for our results. Meanwhile, the inclusion of jolaglabec's data here makes doable the processes for a foreign tourist to purchase new or used bikes in Chile or Argentina. It would be great to take the mystery out of this process for all other Central and South American countries. I believe buying locally in Argentina or Chile is an inexpensive alternative to shipping bikes in and out of South America. This will enable many more adventurers to make their dream of touring South America a reality be it on a 125 cc Honda or a GS 1200. We are waiting word from "Francais" the 19 year old Frenchman who recently legally purchased a used NX400 Honda Falcon in Buenos Aires, kitted it out and is riding toward the border of Chile as I write. He will report the events at the border as he attempts to cross into Chile. Be sure and follow this intelligent young man's adventures. I bet he makes it into Chile with no problems! I have yet to discover any law stating that a foreign tourist must live in Argentina one year before taking a bike/motor vehicle out of the country. This is not to say the law does not exist, it is just that I have not yet found found that law. I have found numerous laws regarding the importation of vehicles and few laws regarding the export of Argentine registered vehicles/bikes. Help here would be greatly appreciated. Ramblin Man Jeff Condon, and his Citroen 3cv are preparing to lead our expedition to Cordoba to investigate UFO sightings there. I hope to ride the Harley, and Elisa will ride my NX400 Honda and if anyone wants to meet en route let us know. More after the holiday and remember to Eat, Drink and Be Careful, especially during the holidays and buy insurance g damit... xfiltrate |
Ride that Harley!!!!!
Ride that Harley and discover some UFO clues. It would be a great way for my old bike to start its new Latin life!
|
Buying a Motorbike in South America; Dec 2007-Feb 2008
I just went through the hassle of figuring out a way to buy a motorbike in South America and would like to share my experience incase it might help someone. I would just like to suggest flying a bike over from anywhere rather than buying one here.
My boyfriend and I started our trip in Southern Africa on a Africa Twin. We toured around for 5 months and decided we wanted to keep touring, but explore South America. We decided to fly the Africa Twin to Sao Paolo, Brazil, (and if you would like more info on that small trial please see our web page at www.motorcyclegypsy.com) and buy a second bike in the first country that seemed plausable. We do not speak Portugese or much Spanish so the language barrier in Brazil was a problem to begin with. In most countries there are enough English speakers you can get by, but in Brazil there were not many. Secondly, people kept telling us not to buy a bike in Brazil, especially since we wanted to buy a used bike, for one because many bikes are not originals, and others have been severly tampered with. So we looked around a little but decided to try Uruguay, where we were headed next. Uruguay had a few more English speakers which was great, but it had no selection of motorbikes. The only place that had a few was the capital, Montevideo, and they were quite thrashed. So we moved on with our trip to Buenos Aires, Argentina, thinking this has got to be the place. Well we searched and searched for about a week, but not much came of it. We heard, but have not seen this in any legal document, that one must live in Argentina for a year in order to be able to take the bike out of the country, or I think there are ways around it and you could have an Argentinian half own the bike and you both leave Argentina on the bike and then I guess it´s yours once you are out of the country...but we did not want to go that route. We heard that if you can buy a bike with US plates it would be a lot easier. So we found a KLR 650 for $3000 with US plates, from a gentleman who had ridden it from Alaska, and thought this would be the one. But, since I have never ridden a motorbike before, and afer looking at the bike we decided to look for a smaller 250cc. I think if that was the right bike for us we could have bought the bike and ridden out of the country with the current owner and then switched paperwork between boarders which isnt legal but it seems like it would work. We looked a bit more for 250´s but there did not seem to be a huge selection and with all the funny laws we decided to head to Santiago, Chile in our search. Santiago proved to be the place to buy a motorbike. Within one week I had a motorbike and within three weeks I could exit Chile with the bike. I will list the steps below what I did to purchase my bike, but I want to reemphasize that no matter what the Chilean bike sellers tell you, you must have a yellow paper called the Padron, which states the bike is in your name, in order to cross borders with the bike. I had several people, including my seller, tell me that all I need is to go to the notaria and sign the bike over to my name and it should be fine, but no, one must wait one to two weeks for the paperwork to process (through the Registro de Civil) and the Padron to be printed. Also, you need to make sure that before you buy the bike the seller has the bike in his name, as often the bike is in the previous owner´s name. At that point the previos owner must go to the notatira with the current owner and sign it over, before the current owner can sell you the bike. Anyhow, with this Padron I have been able to cross borders between Chile and Argentina endlessly between Ushuaia and Santiago and back. This is the only document they asked of me at the borders. Anyhow, before buying my bike I e-mailed the Santiago Community on Horizons and they were very helpful in telling me what I needed to do to buy a bike in Chile. Here are the steps below:
But what I did because I was not totally aware of the proper way is that I went to the Notaria first and signed the bike over to my name before seeing if there were any loans or fines against the bike, and then to the Registro de Civil, oops, luckily there were no loans or fines. Good luck and if you need any other info please send me a message throgh HU or e-mail me at jolaglabek@hotmail.com |
Trail Blazing to New Horizons.
Very well done jolaglabek and friend. Your time and effort gathering and presenting information on buying a bike in Chile is greatly appreciated here. Hopefully others will follow you and sharing what they know about legally buying and selling bikes in South America.
Too many days have passed since I last posted and here are a few updates and some new info regarding transferring title of a foreign registered bike in Argentina. Our young man Francais did report in. His attempt to leave Argentina en route to Ushuaia via Chile failed. He had purchased a used Honda NX400 Falcon in Buenos Aires legally, had all required documents and insurance, but was not permitted to leave Argentina with the bike. Earlier in this thread, I introduced a remedy for purchasing a bike in Argentina and legally touring other countries and then returning to Argentina that requires an Argentine co-owner of the bike to cross the bike into a neighboring country. As Francais has discovered a foreign tourist is not permitted to ride an his/her Argentine registered bike out of Argentina, at least thus far. Francais is riding to another border crossing to try his luck and you bet I will keep you posted on the results. Another project well underway is to discover if it is legally possible to transfer the title of a foreign registered bike from one foreign tourist to an Argentine or to another foreign tourist. I waded through a lot of misinformation regarding this process. I have discovered that If the seller and buyer are both available to sign documents and provide proper ID, in Argentina, and the bike is legally documented, with a plate, from a foreign state/ country, and certain verifications of the authenticity of the documents is provided, (such as apostille from the State/country where the bike is registered), and an import tax is paid the title transfer can be legally accomplished. I am currently working with a DESPACHANTE (Import broker) who is obtaining the details of the process from his contacts at the aduana (customs) and as I recive more detailed information and independently verify that information I will post it here. Another ongoing project is finding out how to handle an expired temporary import permit for a foreign registered bike. This is also being handled by the despachante and myself independently, and as the process evolves, I will report how it is done and the costs involved. If anyone has any related experiences please post here as good solid data based on first hand experiences is always welcome. On other fronts, Jeff Condon will be on the road again in a day or two in his Argentine Citroen 3cv. This time he is headed toward Cordoba, where, among other equally amazing goals, he wants to para glide off several mountains. This Golbebusters guide is certainly living up to his reputation as adventurer extraordinaire. As for Marty's Harley, it is running great and had it's initial cleaning after repair and maintenance and I will be posting a photo with update in the very near future. Remember Javier and Sandra of Dakar Motos, are available to meet your needs and I encountered Sandra successfully clearing a bike through customs , at the international airport here. I ended up with a very nice collapsable motorcycle crate compliments of Eric, who is on his way south. Since the crate did not have customs documents, Jeff and I had to convince the fork lift driver, and his supervisor to carry it on the fork lift through the customs gate and deposit it in and adjacent parking lot where Jeff and I strapped it to the roof of the 3vc and drove it my parking garage. Life is good, come visit and thanks for all the great information regarding buying/selling/touring in South America. FOR YOUR PROTECTION FROM THE "BOTS," WHO NEVER SLEEP, AND ENDLESSLY SERARCH THE INTERNET FOR E-MAIL ADDRESSES TO SPAM, USE ONLY PRIVATE MESSAGE COMMUNICATIONS. Thanks xfiltrate |
To borrow a motorbike in Argentina
Hi XFILTRATE,
I found very interesting your thread how to buy a motorbike in Argentina. I have a question. :confused1: I have a friend of mine in Argentina that can lend me his motorbike for a trip in South America. Do you think I can go out of Argentina and travel in Chile, Bolivia etc. etc. or I will have problems on the border with custom???? Thank in advance for your kind reply. Ciao Giuseppe |
Great question Fantic...
Fantic, Got some good news for you.
According to my GESTOR (one who transfers titles as a business) there exists in Argentina, a way for a non owner rider to legally ride an Argentine registered bike. The owner will have a green card (tarjeta verde) and the authorized rider can be issued a blue card (tarjeta azul) This can be done one day to the next or two days, at the appropriate motor vehicle office where the bike was registered. Both of you must be present with the DNI of the Argentine owner and the green card in his name for the bike, and you must have your passport and possibly your drivers permits, foreign and international. It would be a good idea to carry the insurance card for the bike with you, in case it is requested. I am not confidant enough to say that you, alone, even with your blue card (tarjeta azul) will be permitted out of Argentina with the bike. Please ask motor vehicles this question. If it is like other regulations I have investigated, you might get several different answers to the same question, and if you do, my advice is to go with the majority opinion, this short of finding the actual law, copying it and carrying it along with you. I do know that if your friend crosses the border on the bike with you, you will be OK probably be OK to enter other countries and return the bike to Argentina. I have not yet asked for a blue card (tarjeta azul) for an Argentine registered vehicle, but my GESTOR says she has gotten them before for authorized drivers of motor vehicles. There will probably be a small fee to pay. I will be testing this blue card (tarjeta azul) process vey soon, so keep reading this thread. Please have your Argentine friend check the possibility of obtaining a blue card, at the appropriate motor vehicle office before making definite plans. And be sure to have him ask about you leaving Argentina with his bike. Please, be sure to post here any information regarding a non owner legally riding an Argentine registered bike. Thanks for the great question and buenas rutas, xfiltrate |
To borrow a motorbike in Argentina
Thank you for your prompt and clear reply.
I'm going to check with my friend in Argentina and I will post the answer. :thumbup1: Ciao Giuseppe |
On the road ...trailblazing again
Hi Fantic, more later about your question, right now touring on my NX 400 Honda, Jeff and a girlfriend just arrived our camp in San Antonio de Areco out of Buenos Aires, there are reports of UFO activity and we are on it. Take care all I will be posting soon, from home or Cordoba, depending on where leads take us.
More on the <harley when I hear back from aduana. Harley is up and running. We are trying to legally fix expired temp permit. This will a real work of art... Eat Drink and Be Careful and buy insurance damit... xfiltrate |
Registering a foreign registered bike in Argentina
Elisa has been busy translating a NY Times best selling author's book for an Argentine publishing company and I am pleased to report have ridden to San Antonio de Areco, spent almost a week and to Tigre, for 4 days. Anyone needing camping/hostal info on these areas please private message me, I have really come to know these parts of Argentina in our quest to buy land.
Not much is happening with the US registered Harley. I received one report from the Despachante, who advised not to even think about trying to register it in Argentina until the expired temporary import permit issue is resolved. It is in the hands of appropriate officials of the aduana and I have been advised to expect a fine of some magnitude or other, but no more details. I apologize for these long delays, but there is just literally nothing to do but wait until the aduana responds officially to my Despachante and he advises me of the next step. I will, of course document all that occurs behind the scenes as best I am able. There is a way to register a foreign bike in Argentina. I am on it and will continue this quest once the expired import permit issue is resolved. Need help here with data from other countries that may help foreigners purchase, sell, register bikes. and, still needing more info on length of time each Central and South American country allows for temporary vehicle import. Please help fill the gaps. Elisa and I are off to join Rambilin Man Jeff Condon in the mountains near Cordoba in our continual quest to tract down UFO sightings and strange encounters, cattle mutilations and now a new report indicates there has been a human mutilation, similar to cattle mutilations here, in the States. Wow. Life is good see my response under " I just had a gun pointed at me" thread. It has to due with Argentine law, motorcycles, fire extinguishers, safety triangles and your freedom. *xfiltrate and, buy insurance damit! I mean it! *Motorcycle Parking still available in Buenos Aires, but our spaces are filling fast. **We met a very interesting British couple, who purchased a bike in Texas and rode it to Buenos Aires -- their web site... The Dangerous Boys |
Vehicle exchange in Uruguay
I have read this thread with great interest as I too had seen all the 'tin snails' in Argetina and having once owned one have a desire to get a change of perspective.
Originally I planned to sell my bike and get a plane to Oz, but while texting a friend on MSN came up with the idea of buying a 3CV and driving it back to Canada on the opposite coast to that on which I motorcycled down. Eventually ending back in Halifax, NS and shipping the car back to Britain. Today I have been to see a dealer in Montevideo and was a bit disappointed at the price he offered. While talking, his son doing the translating, I mentioned the alternative plan but said it was not possible for me to buy a car in Argentina and drive it back as I was a foreign national. His sons face lit up and he exclaimed, 'But I have a 3CV for sale, we could do a swop!' His father has been on the phone to their Gestor, and I await his verdict in the morning. The concerns I have asked him to address are 1/ Can I legally become the owner of the vehicle? 2/ Can I get insurence for it? 3/ Can I take it out of the country? 4/ Can I take it through Central and North America as well as countries in South America? I know there will be a heap of paperwork to do when I get back to Britain, but that is all well covered in the DVLAs website, so no problems there. I will keep you all posted with a blow by blow account, maybe it needs a new thread, but as it is so closely tied up and only a stones throw from the BA situation I think it belongs here at the moment. Maybe that Uruguay is the gateway into America Sur? BTW I have looked in my passport and most of the stamps are unreadable, but Belize does note the bike details in the passport and so does Hondurus. All countries seem to enter them into a computer database, but how joined up it all is I'm not sure. |
Man with a Plan
Stagbeetle, go for it. Anything you can document about buying in Uruguay and leaving the country is greatly appreciated here. Elisa and I are in Brazil - We rode our two Hondas up to Iguasu Falls and are returning to BA via Brazil and Uruguay. We will cross into Uruguay in two or three days. Tomorrow we do the thermals at San Miguel D este...
Our plan is to ride down to Colonia and take the Boquebus (ferry) to Buenos Aires. If you get to BA , be sure to let us know and we can compare notes. For other readers of this thread, sorry for the lack of com. Elisa and I have finally taken our vacation and sthuys far it has been outstanding. The roads throug rural Brazil are incredible...beautiful curves and little or no traffic /animals...We are doing about 200 k a day and enjoying everything. Brazil is great great great. Meanwhile Ramblin van man Jeff Condon will be back in BA from a series of para gliding flights in cordoba area by the end of the month and so will we. Elisa and I saw him take off from Cuchi Corral in LA Cumbre...Capilla de Monte and safely land some 20 minutes later safely 400 meters below.... I strongly reccomend seeing the falls from the Brazilian side...too. Also , nothing new on the Harley sportster. The aduana is still trying to determine what to do about a bike with an expired temp import with a new owner who is a legal resident of Argentina. This might be a first for them. Not that foreign bike s have not ended up with Argentines, but that the person actually reported the transfer to the aduana. Even the aduana advised through our Gestor (one who transfers titles as a business) and our dispachante that we should simply sell the bike for parts. THAT AIN´T GOING TO HAPPEN EVER... Anyway it is wait and see and this might be a break through for those of you wanting to sell your bike in BA. At least I will be able to take the mysteria out of how th import tax is determined on an older bike. Keep the info flowing, even though I am without internet in most places we overnight. We camp, bush camp and do reasonalble hotels every 3rd day or so. Most do not have internet or I am just too lazy to go out and find one that doesn´t take 20 minutes to load Horizons. Also, please remember the two foreign tourists taken hostage in Tunisia...I have an idea they will be home safe soon....within a week of this date 17th May. But this is only my personal belief. Thanks to all of you who are or have parked your motos with us in Buenos Aires... will have web site up soon for those needing safe secure parking in BA long or short term... Eat , Drink and be Careful buenas rutas ,and buy insurance damit. xfiltrate on the road |
New info on foreign tourist leaving Argentina with ?Argentine motorcycle
Wow, I like Brazil so much I forgot to post that Elisa, who bought her XR250 Honda Toprnado in Buenos Aires 3 years ago and is a citizen of Spain, was able to ride from Puerto Iguasu into Brazil by showing her green card (tarjeta verde) Argentine vehicle registration... I could have done the same, but documented myself with my DNI Foreign Residence in Argentina instead of my passport USA.
Anyway, |am not sure how far into Brazil the roads from Foz de Iguasu go, but that is one easy border for foreigners with Argentine purchased bikes. We are still heading south through rural Brazil 2 more nights and we will be in Uruguay and 2 nights to get to Colonia where we board the night ferry for Buenos ?Aires. Will keep you posted and should have our web site up soon. Bueanaz Rutas and buy insurance damit xfiltrate... |
Enjoing caipirinha?
Hi Eduard
Nice would have been to test this exit with a less then a year old bike.Of course she can exit with the 3 years old bike.The law says that.After one year there is no problem at all. I think you posted that the french guy couldn´t exit into chile.And that is logical too.The bike was less then a year on his posetion. Where you checked properly or they just looked over and handed back the stuff? I been told Iguazu or other borders crossings over there are easy and fast.Was that so? Enjoy the trip It is hot here those days(31,5º) Karl |
this thread got my vote - most talking for the least information.:thumbdown:
|
To talk or not to talk...
I have looked and looked and have never found the one year law for ¨residence¨or ownership that would enable a foreigner to exit Argentina with an Argentine registered bike.
Many people have talked about this law. Here is my take. For North Americans and some others , the tourist visa is 3 months and then must be renewed or the tourist simply leaves Argentina and re enters with another 3 month tourist visa. Therefore, at quick glance, I doubt the border officials can assilmilate quickly who has actually been in the country for one year. During our recent exit at Iguasu into Brazil, Elisa simply placed her tarjeta verde inside her Spanish passport and the official glaced at both and waved her through. It is true that the green card ¨tarjeta verde¨has a date, and the border officials could verify the one year, length of ownership, by checking issue date of the green card. But, if anyone has the actual law please post it here. At the aduana itself, Elisa and I interviewed 3 different aduana officals 2 said, yes of course a foreign tourist could leave with an Argentine registered bike, by simply asking for a permit. Both explained these permits are easy to obtain at any border....One official said no way could a foreign tourist take an Argentine vehicle out of Argentina. Those interviews were one afternoon 2 years ago. Today, the concensus is that either the foreign tourist must have a DNI ¨national identity card, sometimes called a ¨foreign residence permit which is basically the same document issued to Argentines, with the differences being the numbers for foreign residents are over 90,000,000, the color is different and the word EXTRANJERO is on the front of the little booklet. the inside also lists the foreigners nationality. One way for a foreign tourist to legally own a bike that may be taken out of Argentina is to co own the bike with an Argentine who has a DNI two green cards can be requested. The Argentine owner would have to cross the bike out of Argentina and then the foreign tourist could enter it into the new country with the assistance of the Argentine co owner. Thus far, this seems to be a legal way for a foreign tourist to buy in Argentina and leave the country with the bike. I am currently working with the aduana in an attempt to get all relavant laws, thus far there has been even more talk and less information forthcoming than quastdog so aptly described some of my posts to this thread. But, talk on we will, and slowly, surely and accurately we will take the mystery out and put in your hands the appropriate laws regarding a foreign tourist exiting Argentina with his-her Argentine registered bike. And, quastdog, thanks for keeping us on track. xfiltrate buy insurance damit. |
One more day to go
Sorry for the delay in updating my last post, but I too have been out on a tour of the 'campo' in Uruguay, so no internet, or connections so poor that they timed out.
Anyway, before I left on the ride two weeks ago I visited the solicitor with my vendor and some other guy and payed US$300 and signed a couple of papers. I have to say here and now that you either have to have faith in the vendor/buyer, or get your own solicitor. I trust my vendow/buyer otherwise would not have gone ahead so blindly. He is a dealer though and this apparently makes it a bit easier. So in the last two weeks while I was away they have been getting my residents card so that tomorrow I can pay another US$100 and they sign over the vehicle, I'm not sure if we then go and get a green card for the insurence or if that will come with the rest of the documents tomorrow. I will let you know, I have been assurred that there will be no trouble leaving the country, but will have to see. At least I have a good contact to return to if it all goes belly up. My intention is to leave Uraguay at Paysando and tour Northern Argentina before heading for Brazil and Venezuala. Have to see what happens before I make plans further ahead than that. I know this all sounds a bit wishy-washy, but you have to be here to get the full feeling that everyone is acting with the best results in mind, and they seem to know what they are doing, this is not the first vehicle they have bought or sold to gringos by the way. Before I recommend his dealer I need to know that it will all work out ok, so the border at Pasando will be the first test. |
A bit more understanding
:funmeteryes:I now have a bit more understanding of what is going on.
Two important points. 1. It is ok for a foreigner to buy a Uraguay registered vehicle in Uruguay once they get their Registration Card. 2. It is illegal for an ordinary Uruguayan to buy (import) a forieign bike in Uruguay or a foreigner to sell one (unless it comes through a proper importer.) For me to purchase a vehicle is therefore all above board and perfectly legal, however as Peter found out, they cannot buy foriegn bikes, except as a series of spare parts flying in formation, as it were. By selling a vehicle to the same people who are selling me the 3CV, the book price of the sale is the difference between my bike and the car. In this case the car stands at $1000 and the bike is at $0 (writen off) but cannot be registered in Uruguay. I was lucky that the dealers have either a use for the spares or a foreign buyer on the books who can register it in his own country. Again, to be fair, they do build custom bikes here at this dealership so it may resurface as a hybrid off road bike. Whatever the circumstances, mine is an unusual case and not likely to crop up again quickly. However I will add one piece of information that I came across to bear in mind. South Americans do not like bikes made in the Phillippines that begin with the letter Kawasaki, and this will affect the resale price if you do get an offer. So if selling at the end of your trip is your aim, bring a BMW, Honda or Suzuki, these are preferred makes. that's what I'm told anyway. All very confusing isn't it |
Important Breakthrough... Expired Temp Import Permit
Thanks for all the replies with the accurate and first hand info.
Elisa and I are at our ranch in Flagstaff, Arizona. We are heavily involved in maintenance and finding a new tenant. Our long time friend and tenant , former special forces/archeologist has moved closer to the VA hospital for surgery. Anyone riding through Flagstaff is welcome. Private message us for tel and GPS or directions. We will return to Argentina and our flat and in August. Our flat is sub leased for 2 months... Motorcycle parking in Buenos Aires is still available by e-mailing me. The manager of our parking garage will accommodate you. Meanwhile, just before leaving Buenos Aires, our despachante (broker) mangered to set up an appointment with the proper officials, regarding the Harley Davidson Sportster. and I am very pleased to report it was issued a new temporary import permit in my name and is now quite legal to ride in Argentina. There were two problems remainting once the Harley was rescued from the police custody in Comodoro Rivadavia . One, was it was legally entered into Argentina in the name of the owner and therefore the temporary import permit was issued in his name. And two, the temporary import permit was expired by several months. More importantly, the original owner had to leave Argentina quickly, to handle an emergency at home, and has no plans to return. The first problem was addressed by adding my name to the South Carolina title, not all states will do this without the co -owner being present, but South Carolina will. And then, with the revised title, the expired temporary import permit and some cash (for fees etc) we went to the Aduana (customs) and requested a new temporary import permit for 8 months in my name....and, after a few hours, it was granted... I know there are several others with similar problems and that this accomplishment may help toward the transfer of title from one foreign moto tourist to another and therefore, I post here what I believe is helpful information. I am continuing my quest to transfer the South Carolina title to an Argentine title and have been assured this is possible, but will take some time. All will be reported as events unfold. Hope this is helpful and I will respond to all comments. xfiltrate |
Can anyone offer any advice?
Hi all, I've been reading the thread and found it full of really useful ideas. I carry a full UK driving licence but have not taken a CBT or full motorcycle test. I live and work in Buenos Aires and am desparate to see more of the country by motorbike. Does anyone know what training is required to ride a touring bike here in Argentina? Can I do the necessary training here and if so who should I contact. My plan would be to get trained and buy a bike to use for long weekend trips as long as I'm here (1-2 years). Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
|
What would be your basic skills?
I think there is no "training" needed.Except to look at every crossing to avoid being run over cars or trucks.You have probably noticed there is allmost no respect to the actual law.So surviving is the word!.
Why don´t you visit our HU bunker here at DAKARMOTOS.I am a regular there so we could talk a bit more. What kind of bike are you looking at? Local imported ones are very expensive.Maybe purchasing from a traveller would be a good idea. Ok CU KH |
Today I've been reading this thread. Very interesting indeed. As two of my French friends bought a small motor in Salta and crossed into Boliva and Brazil with it. I don't know the exact procedures they went trough, but it took them more than a week, as the papers were not in order. They bought a motorcycle for 500 euro's and for 100 euro's more made a small trailer. When they came back in Argentina, sold the bike for 500 euro's. My understanding of French, let alone reading it is very poor, so I don't know if they have described their buying actions in their blog.... Maybe someone will find this useful as well?
I would like to note, that we did not have our car stamped into our passports in: Brazil, Paraguay, Bolivia or Chili, and all have 3 months temporary import documents. We did however extend our 3 months with another 3 months in Brazil, making it upto 6 months total. |
An update and big Thank you for the informative posts
Just an update and comments regarding recent posts.
We are still in Flagstaff, Arizona at our ranch and all are welcome, please private message for GPS and tel numbers. We return to Buenos Aires last week in August. Motorcycle parking is currently available in our parking garage in Recoleta, private message me and I will make arrangements with the manager of the parking garage to admit your bike. Having been in South America for the 14 months prior to our June return to the ranch, I have to say WE MISS SOUTH AMERICA. We have been fixing up the ranch, having an antique sale and interviewing potential renters. Edven2r: Since you live and work in BA, perhaps it would be better to drop in on one of the several Driving Schools there. They are well promoted and from what I understand most, who actually work with proper credentials in Argentina, are required to have an Argentine driving permit. This may well be determined by the nature of your immigration status. If you are operating on a 3 month tourist permit and have a "full" valid UK driving permit, I would "guess" you would be legal to ride Argentina. But, please have a chat with a local driving instructor or administrator at a driving school in BA to verify. Thanks for the topic. I am sure it will be of interest to others. As for buying a bike, DAKARMOTOS will be helpful and please read the opening posts on this thread. I suggest doing your homework before buying to avoid potential transfer of title problems etc. BCK-973 Darkarmotos is the right HU bunker to visit n in BA. Please give our regards to Javier and e-mail if he or anyone needs anything, parts etc. from the States. Mailking: great info, keep us posted on your travels and those of your French friends. thanks Stagbeetle: Great to get the info about Uraguay. Keep posting here. Once it is all sorted out perhaps you could write an overview of the process, with potential problems to be aware of, and post here. thanks for your kind works and words. xfiltrate |
Selling/buying bikes in Argentina
My experience in life has taught me that if you wish to succeed than you should first plan and then execute that plan in a proper manner.
After recently completing my bike trip south, I met an Argentinian who wished to purchase my bike.In our first few minutes of our meeting, he advised me of the possible restrictions placed by the ADUANA ( customs) concerning the sale and transfer of foreign registered bikes within the country. After discussing the posiibilities and probabilities with various other locals, we were not satisfied that we were getting the accurate details on such a transaction. To avoid making a decision on second hand information or interpretations offered from unofficial sources, I suggested to my friend that we make a visit to the head office of the ADUANA located in Plaza de Mayo.After speaking with high officials on several visits of about 30 minutes each, we came up with a proposal which was acceptable to the ADUANA , and was within the law.The result is that my Argentinian friend now owns an impressive bike. I have read Eduardo's blogs , and I will say that for several reasons, I would be most reluctant in going down the route that he suggests.One is that I think it would be stupid to transfer even a portion of the title of your bike in anyone's name. Second, following my discussions with the ADUANA, I am certain that such a maneouvre as Eddy suggests would be outside of the law. The final reason is that Eddy is not an official or offers no credentials in this area , and therefore should not be offering advice on this matter. In one of his blogs, Eddy stses that Mariano of Motorcare located on Avenida Liberator is supportive of his efforts, Actually, Mariano who runs an impressive line of both new and used bikes and servive centre, has serious doubts about any success with Eddy's scheme. My advice to anyone wishing to enter into a transaction is that first you go to the ADUANA in Plaza de Mayo and fully explain your own situation. Do not be discouraged if you do not get the answer that you desire within the first meeting. Think about the information that has been conveyed to you, think about it, and go back again and again.Do not hesitate to offer different scenarios.They are very nice and understanding people, and, also, just as importantly, they are nobody's fool. |
@Intrepid: Maybe you care to tell us what happened. What was your solution, and will this work for anybody? You say, your solution is within the law, so it should work for anybody? Right?
|
Good work Intrepid
It seems like you have found a way to sell a foreign registered bike to an Argentine by discussing the matter with the proper aduana officials, thinking about and following their advice. Good for you. Hope I am understanding what you have done. Am I?
Did you pay the import tax? How was it calulated? Was the bike registered by the new owner in Argentina? Much has been posted here. Intrepid, Not sure what "scheme" you are concerned about. Could you please be more specific and I will respond with my point of view and legal documentation regarding a wide variety of potential situations posted here. Are you questioning selling a foreign registered bike in Argentina, buying an Argentine registered bike as a foreign tourist, or riding an Argentine registered bike out of Argentina as a foreign tourist? All of these situations have been discussed here, and please be advised that I too suggest doing your own homework. Please, keep posting here, what you are learning will be valuable to others. Thank you for your excellent comments and I, like mailking, look forward to your posts explaining exactly what you have learned from the high officials at the aduana. This might be helpful to others. xfiltrate |
I might have reported it when I was in Formosa last year but...even tho Xfiltrate s experience is interesting to follow, Argentina might not be the best place for a foreign traveller to officially buy a motorcyle for touring South America.
In my experience, Paraguay (Asuncion) would be a much better choice : You can find a much wider choice of dual purpose bikes since anything can be imported there. Unfortunatly for Paraguayans, corruption is to be found everywhere, which makes it much more time efficient for people who have actually the means to bribe to get to their goal. I think I posted the address too but dont have it here anymore. There is a brazilian Honda dealership near the airport that has decently priced dual purpose bikes. The guy is very professional. He might be the best option for buying and reselling a bike in South America. Edit : searching through my posts, i found the address of the dealership in Asuncion : Klein Motos transformacion restauracion y reparacion de motos y jetski Av Aviadores del Chaco 3220 Asuncion Fone (021) 660531 kleinmoto@telesurf.com.py |
Let us be Open and Honest, not add to the MYSTERY
Hello, we are very happy to be home in Buenos Aires. Thanks for all the informative posts.
Understanding that individuals posting here might have various agendas, as originator of this thread, I hereby REQUEST that you either post data that helps take the mystery out of the process of a foreign tourist purchasing a motor vehicle in Argeintina or state your actual agenda regarding the reason you want to keep the correct information to yourself or in the hands of a very few.... In this information age, information is power. Earlier in this thread I have explained in great detail the relatively simple processes for a foreign tourist to legally purchase a brand new or used Argentine motor vehicle, and register it, in the foreign tourist name, in Argentina. After reviewing the previous posts, if anyone has a specific question regarding this process, I will respond with documentation and /or expert opinion. Just ask, please don't attack me or the data I have spent two years collecting. Intrepid, I have you on the radar, what is your agenda here? Do you want legal motor vehicle transfer processes in Argentina to remain a mystery, and if so for what purpose??? xfiltrate |
Finally found the info I was looking for....
xFiltrate, I can't thank you enough. I have been planning a SA tour for the summer of 09. The whole procedure of getting a bike in Argentina and taking it across the continent was mind boggling given the amount and variety of information around. Your post clarifies a lot of things.
Quick questions tho': 1. Which bike would you suggest for a SA trip? Something light but sturdy. 2. What bike would you suggest if I had a pillion? 3. What sort of money should I be looking to spend to buy these babies? 4. Can I buy the bike in Argentina and sell it in, say, Costa Rica? Wasn't planning on a circular route. You are great man. |
thanks to the Iceman
Iceman, stay tuned, I have some new data being prepared by Argentine customs officials specifically for this thread. Might take a few weeks, but info directly from Argentine Officials (in writing) and translated into English...has long been needed.
1. Yes, light and sturdy and perhaps easy to find parts for, and blend in with locals ..... Elisa and I have done six South American countries, she rode a new Honda XR250 Tornado, kitted out with soft luggage and a tail rack created by Pato (via Motocare) in Buenos Aires. I rode a new Honda NX400 Falcon. also kitted out by Pato with pannier racks, tail rack and extra battery (for CB radio) compartment and tool box. Both bikes were manufactured at the Honda Plant in Brazil, we purchased the bikes from a Honda dealer in Buenos Aires. Elisa has just traded up to a new NX400. While the XR250 performed very well with no mechanical problems over 20 thousand K she felt a little more power and speed on the long stretches of Argentine highway would be better. If you are considering Ruta 40 or the likes make sure you fashion some kind of bash plate.... You don't have to be British to have a bash plate, although the Brits seem to know all about them and all about panniers, just ask one. Only mechanical problem I had was a worn out clutch. I was fully loaded with gear and I weigh a little less than 200 pounds. The Falcon (at about 130K dry weight) seemed to be geared just right for the soft sand and for those long lonely stretches of asphalt. Neither of us are experts like Chris Scott who wrote "Adventure Motorcycling Handbook" 2005 edition...and I suggest you buy the book and read Choosing a Motorcycle chapter and review the top ten overlanders he suggests. Be sure and read the rest of the book too as it has been amazingly helpful throughout our travels. 2. I would NOT suggest the NX400 for two up on an (extended) more than a weekend ride, with gear...I would want a bigger more powerful bike if I was two up and also carrying gear.... I have never traveled with a pillion and gear on my NX400.... Elisa has her own bike. 3. NX400 Falcon sells new for $7,000.00 dollars US in Buenos Aires and the XR250 tornado is selling new for $5,000.00 dollars US in Buenos Aires. 4. As a foreign tourist you can certainly legally buy and sell an Argentine registered bike new or used in Argentina. See earlier in this thread. Leaving Argentina with an Argentine bike registered in your name might be problematic, see earlier in thread for one way to legally do it.... or stand by for direct commentary from Argentine officials. Hopefully within a week or two, but experience tells me it might be more than a month before a written response comes our way. We can always hope... Thanks for the kind words, you and the others like you make it all worthwhile...xfiltrate buenas rutas |
Afip
I am following this thread since i moved to BsAs in July this year.
Some things were unclear before i found this thread. Thank you for posting. I am of course interested in having bike here with as least possible expenses whatever those might be. Since i am still looking for job i have a lot of time to search web in regard to bikes (import/export, taxes, custom fees, paper work, etc.) I hope this may be somewhat useful: AFIP - ADMINISTRACION FEDERAL DE INGRESOS PUBLICOS |
Radar Scatter
Eddy
There exists considerable scatter on your radar which is obviously affecting your ability as an effective navigator. If the altitude is causing dizzy spells, iIsuggest that you climb down off your high horse. What kind of a cowboy are you , anyway? Your moderate state of paranoia is ,also, affecting your interpretation or intent of my earlier comments. For the benefit of the other readers of this thread, I will re-iterate that bikers with specific circumstances ought to visit the ADAUNA (customs) at Plaza de Mayo in central Buenos Aires. It would be foolish to not seek out their help.My experience was most satisfying. I am not a regular visitor to this site. There is a chance, however, that during a period of idleness and acute curiosity that I may decide to re-vsit. If I find that you have again thrown more of your surly remarks in my direction, I will get mean. Bueno suerte, mi amigoes de la autopista. |
Just the facts
Intrepid, your lack of perception is not my problem. All I am saying to you is:
If you found out anything, at all, regarding any of the topics discussed here, please post the information. I agree the aduana is the best source of information regarding several of these topics, and I , myself have submitted requests in writing to aduana officials. When I receive replies , I post the data here. The basic problem seems to be finding accurate information. I am simply asking you to post any relavant information you may have, many of the readers of this thread are not in Argentina, do not speak Spanish and do not know who to contact in the aduana for the information they need. The purpose of this thread is to provide the most accurate information available regarding topics addressed. Being on radar is a good thing, it means I am simply looking for more info from you, thanks xfiltrate |
Anyone know where Wayne is? info please
Looking for Wayne, he is from Britain and arrived Buenos Aires several months ago via ship, with the V-Strom he is riding.
He has been in good com with me until about ten days ago. Last message was he was leaving Argentina after a good tour, except for one incident with loss of some gear, and heading for Uruguay to renew his temporary vehicle Import permit. I believe he took the ferry to Uruguay, but not sure. He was to arrive back in Buenos Aires about 10 days ago and contact me. He has not contacted me. He mentioned he had to return to Europe for a short visit, so indeed he may be there. He has exceptional survival skills, is well kitted out and an experienced overlander. At this point I am more curious than worried. But, any news will be appreciated . thanks, xfiltrate |
Vehicle Circulation in Mercosur Countries
Wow, Vlades (a hubber) has posted some very helpful information IN ENGLISH from AFIP, the Argentine agency responsible for providing information regarding the following. Out of gratitude I have copied and posted here the data pertaining to this thread.
Or you can go to AFIP - ADMINISTRACION FEDERAL DE INGRESOS PUBLICOS as suggested by Vlades. Well done Vlades. And a question for you. As I understand the Mercosur countries are Argentina, Brazil, Bolivia, Paraguay, Uruguay and Chile. But, in some discussions I have had with 2 local vehicle insurance agencies, Bolivia and Chile are sometimes not considered Mercosur for insurance purposes, do you have any info on the countries AFIP defines as Mercosur? The information directly from AfIP can be copied and carried along ( spanish version might be preferred) and exhibited to border officials and police. Now for my attempt at additional interpretation: 1) note below the regulations are the same for "residents and tourists" 2) as a "tourist" you will need documents a) through f) (listed below) to circulate a motorcycle purchased in Argentina in the other MERCOSUR countries. WHAT EXACTLY IS.... a) Valid identity to run in MERCOSUR countries? I suppose it could be a foreign passport, my reasoning is that c) requires "Document that certifies your tourist status by a migratory authority. " Therefore, unless the tourist card for the country other than country of purchase of the motorcycle is referenced here, this might be interpreted to mean a "tourist" with passport would satisfy document requirements a) and c). This is exactly the question I posed to government officials here and have yet to receive a response. 3) as for the confusing requirement to "inscribe" title numbers on the windows of the vehicle, since motorcycles do not have windows, it is my opinion that the inscription of title numbers is not necessary for motorcycles. If anyone can help interpret the following with actual experience regarding this issue, please post here. thanks xfiltrate Vehicles circulation VEHICLES REGIME - General Resolution No. 1419/03 Mr./ Mrs. Resident / Tourist, If you plan to travel to countries belonging to the MERCOSUR, you must follow the current regulations (General Resolution No. 1419/03) to avoid delays or inconveniences. When vehicles duly registered in the MERCOSUR, whether cars, motorcycles, trailers, motor homes and boats circulate in a Country Party different from the one of the vehicle’s registration, the driver shall have the following documents: a) Valid Identity Card to run in the MERCOSUR. b) Driving license. c) Document that certifies your tourist status by a migratory authority. d) Authorization through a public instrument to drive the vehicle, in case its owner is not driving. In the case of vehicles for private use, they can be driven in each party country by the spouse or relatives of the owner, up to second degree of consanguinity, without the need of explicit authorization as long as they are tourists and the bond is evidenced with the pertinent documents. e) Title or other official document evidencing the vehicle’s proprietorship. f) Valid insurance voucher within the MERCOSUR; before making any trip you should contact the Insurance Company. WARNING: “If it is a rented vehicle, the documents mentioned in items d), e) and f) shall be replaced by the Authorization to run in the MERCOSUR (ACM), granted by the leasing company." The vehicles from the Argentine Republic registered before the Dirección Nacional de los Registros Nacionales de la Propiedad del Automotor y de Créditos Prendarios, shall have the title numbers recorded, at least, in the front and rear windshield, and, in those vehicles that have SIX (6) or more panes, in the biggest side panes . When the number of panes is fewer than SIX (6) the recording of numbers shall be made in all of them. For further information: Center of Telephonic Information: 0810-999-AFIP (2347) Monday through Friday from 8 a.m. to 8 p.m. Customs counters located in the pre-boarding area. Argentine diplomatic offices abroad. AFIP - ADMINISTRACION FEDERAL DE INGRESOS PUBLICOS Cell phones Regarding the entry of mobile phones in the accompanied luggage, even when taxes must be paid or not, such entry must be made completing all fields under the forms OM-2087/G1 (Route by air or sea), and OM-2087/G2 (Route waterway or by land), which must be dully audited by the customs service. |
Mercosur quick and easy done!
Full members now include Argentina, Brazil, Paraguay, Uruguay, and (contigent on ratification by the other members) Venezuela; Bolivia, Chile, Colombia, Ecuador, and Peru are associate members.
More here Mercosur – FREE Mercosur Information | Encyclopedia.com: Facts, Pictures, Information! Ed That is why insurances are not easy to do for Bolivia,Chile and Peru. ATM does this at extra cost. Now to Vladas last post(reposted on Javier´s tread from 2004) does not add any new information.When first read is even more confusing! Karl |
Quick, but not so easy.
Karl, AFIP might have a definition of MERCOSUR different from that described
at : Mercosur – FREE Mercosur Information | Encyclopedia.com: Facts, Pictures, Information! My question was not for the official list of the official status of MERCOSUR countries. My question is what countries does AFIP consider MERCOSUR in terms of AFIPs General Resolution No. 1419/03? And yes Karl I agree with you that the recent post of AFIPs regulation is confusing. My goal is to stop all the confusion and agency double talk for the purpose of providing the readers of this thread accurate and easy to understand information. To this end I have made written request for an interpretation of the all Argentine regulations regarding riding into, taking the ferry, or flying to another country by a "tourist" with his privately owned Argentine registered motorcycle. To date my questions to the aduana (customs at the border) have gone unanswered. I am now going to make an appointment with AFIP at the highest level and take the confusion out of AFIPs General Resolution No. 1419/03 regarding the circulation of Argentine vehicles. These questions have gone unanswered for too many years...There must be some stop on releasing the actual regulations in an easily understood manner. I will find out what the stop is and I will bring a conclusion to the confusion. I have noted, through personal experience and observation, that some have taken advantage of this confusing regulation for personal gain. This includes a small number of officials at a few borders. but I also believe the regulation is just as confusing to some border officials. I have always applauded the very significant contributions made by Javier in the past and continuing toward the resolution of this problem and for all the help he has extended to motorcyclists riding South America. As an afterthought, I welcome here any ideas that might help clean up the corruption on Ruta 14. (See "Corrupt Police in Argentina. Ruta 14 Kilometer No. 341" Thread) I believe we need a well organized effort with a workable strategy so that bribes are no longer demanded by officials or those "pretending" to be officials at certain kilometers along Ruta 14. Ideas welcome. xfiltrate |
Breakthrough Maybe...
Hi folks, this might be of interest. There has been established "temporary export " papers for vehicles/motorcycles purchased and registered in Argentina.
These forms are supposed to be available at all border crossings and are issued to Argentine citizens and legal foreign (temporary or permanent) residents of Argentina. But, what about foreign motor tourists who have legally purchased a vehicle or motorcycle in Argentina? Some, mostly those who have secured a "domocilio" in Argentina (see earlier in this thread) have been issued temporary export permits, others have not and some, on the power of their own words, have been issued a temporary export permit. This , mostly upon exiting Argentina's border with Chile. Forget Bolivia. The temporary export permit is a signed promise that the vehicle/motorcycle will return to Argentina within a specified number of months, and not sold internationally. In order to facilitate this process, a survey needs to be done to discover the potential number of foreign tourists who want and can afford to purchase motorcycles or vehicles in Argentina if the motorcycle /vehicle would be issued a temporary export permit. If the survey indicates that more than 100 foreign tourists,( First and Last name/Nationality/motorcycle/vehicle description and estimated month and year of purchase) would purchase a motorcycle or vehicle in Argentina if issued a Temporary Export Permit, I have a "politico" who is willing to present legislation that would augment current "confusing" legislation, and would "clarify," beyond doubt the fact that a foreign motor tourist, having purchased and registered a motorcycle/vehicle in Argentina will be issued a Temporary Export Permit. Seems it is up to us now, after all we are those will will benefit form this clarification. Please post your screen name here/give your web site, and if needed, I will send a private message to you requesting your real name. This might be fun! I might even testify before the Argentine Congress, on your behalf, and so might several representatives of the motor industry and Automobile and Touring clubs here. Tell your friends and to to make all this real, a new (0 kilometers) 2009 Honda Falcon NX 400 duel purpose motorcycle, one year or 12,000 K warrantee (designed by Honda for touring South America, parts and service readily available) can be purchased in Buenos Aires for less than $7,000.00 US dollars. After your South American tour, you can legally park your motorcycle in Argentina indefinitely, or legally sell it on the very brisk and very over priced used motorcycle market in Argentina. Peso is currently about $3.40 to one US dollar. Thanks xfiltrate |
xfiltrate: Thanks for taking the time to chronicle the ownership problems for the tourist.
|
Foreign Title transfers and Temporary Vehicle Import Permits
Thanks to you Mikenlapaz, I try to look at this thread as a very challenging game, with barriers between me and my goals of providing accurate and up to date data for international over landers,
I just received a private message from Peer. Perhaps my answer to his questions will be helpful to others. Hi Peer, Where did you purchase the bike and where is the bike currently registered? Is it now registered in the same country the buyer will register it in? You mentioned "imported bike" so I assume yours is, but If you purchased the bike in Argentina, be sure to read this thread regarding foreign tourists crossing out of Argentina with an Argentine registered bike. On the other hand, if the bike is registered in another country and you had the Temporary Vehicle Import Permit issued to you upon arrival, only you and whoever else is on the foreign title can exit Argentina with the bike. And , more importantly the bike cannot have overstayed the number of months granted by the Temporary Vehicle Import Permit. Someone will pay big bucks as a fine if the bike has overstayed its' permit. When the buyer registers your bike in his name it will be with a different title number and different plate, I assume, each of these might cause problems for him if trying to exit Argentina. The title # is not so important, but the bike must the same exact license plate for which the Temporary Vehicle Import Title was issued, otherwise, the bike might be impounded. The buyer will not be able to exit, with the bike, unless he, himself, is listed with you (the primary person named on the Temporary vehicle Import permit) on the title. Rather then transfer title, I would keep the same title and have his name added as co - owner of the bike. I am not absolutely certain this will work, but I do know that even if he is listed as "additional rider" on the TVIP, only the owner of the bike and the person named on the TVIP can exit the country with the bike. OF COURSE, LEGALLY YOU MIGHT STILL BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR DAMAGES RESULTING FROM AN ACCIDENT, I WOULD INSIST THAT THE BUYER SECURES PROPER INSURANCE TO COVER YOU BOTH. THIS MIGHT REQUIRE HIM HAVING COPIES OF YOUR PASSPORT AND DRIVING PERMITS. Since you might be in (Germany?) I assume you and the buyer could go together to motor vehicles Dept and have his name included on your title. careful that a new plate is not issued, keep a copy of the old title in case the question of title # comes up at the border. With his name being on the title and him being listed as additonal rider on the TVIP, he has a good chance of being allowed exit from Argentina with the bike. Please send more details regarding where the bike is registered and if there exists the possibility to simply include the buyers name, with your name, on the title? |
Temporary Vehicle Import Permits Argentina
Hello over landers, anyone who would like to be able to legally exit Argentina with a new or used Argentine registered motorcycle, that they purchased in Argentina, please answer my brief survey: thanks
In order to facilitate this process, a survey needs to be done to discover the potential number of foreign tourists who want and can afford to purchase motorcycles or vehicles in Argentina if the motorcycle /vehicle would be issued a temporary EXPORT permit. If the survey indicates that more than 100 FOREIGN TOURISTS... ( SCREEN NAME/Nationality/motorcycle/vehicle description and estimated month and year of purchase) ......would purchase a motorcycle or vehicle in Argentina if issued a Temporary Export Permit, I have a "politico" who is willing to present legislation that would augment current "confusing" legislation, and would "clarify," beyond doubt the fact that a foreign motor tourist, having purchased and registered a motorcycle/vehicle in Argentina will be issued a Temporary EXPORT Permit. Seems it is up to us now, after all we are those will will benefit form this clarification. Please post your screen name here/give your web site, and if needed, I will send a private message to you requesting your real name. __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _______________ Here are the answers to e-mail inquiries I have received recently: Hi, i will answer your questions regarding Temporary Vehicle Import Permits issued to foreign tourists. Yes, generally speaking, you are correct, officials here limit the stay of your motorcycle to 8 months, of course if you enter and then exit the country and enter again, you will be issued another TVIP for the following 8 months. If you make arrangements with a despachante (import broker) he/she can renew your TVIP in Buenos Aires, if done before the expiration of the original 8 months. This may require having an official inspect the vin number on the bike. It can be done only with advance preparations, and might be subject to changes in the law or the whims of the officials. I will double check on this and fine out current fees charged by the officials and current fee for the despanchante, if you desire. In one case, I was able to have renewed an "expired" TVIP, but it cost cost to $600.00 dollars US in fines and $100.00 to the despachante, and it was a struggle. If you have 2 bikes and both bikes are foreign registered, and both of you return to Argentina before the expiration date... you can get an extension (in person) at the port in Buenos Aires... for very little or no cost, and with no problems.... Or, you can simply exit to Uruguay and then re-enter Argentina and have another 8 month TVIP issued. If both foreign registered bikes are in both names only one has to return to get the extension for both bikes. I have heard varying reports regarding the length of time TVIP are issued for Uruguay. Therefore, I cannot advise here. I do not understand what you mean by "someone to take accountability to get on a plane?" If you are asking if you can legally leave the country (Argentina) without your foreign registered bikes/bike the answer is YES. Many foreign tourists leave their foreign registered vehicles/bikes here, and as long as the vehicle/bike does not out stay the 8 month TVIP limit, you will have no problem. If you buy new or used in Argentina, register the bike in your name (foreign tourist), the bike can legally stay in Argentina forever. :thumbup1: I do not know if Uruguay allows a foreign tourist who entered Uruguay with a vehicle/bike allows the foreign tourist to exit Uruguay without the vehicle/bike or not. Hope this helps, please keep me posted when you discover accurate info on Uruguay. thanks Ed |
More on Foreign Title Transfers and Temp Vehicle Import Permits
The following info may be helpful to anyone wanting to buy a foreign registered motorcycle in Argentina..., a question has been raised regarding the purchase of a foreign registered motorcycle (Canada) by a foreign tourist in Argentina.
NOTICE: Anyone wanting to purchase a new or used motorcycle in Argentina, private message me with your screen name, description of bike, including estimated purchase price, potential date of purchase, and a statement that you wish to be able to legally exit and re-enter Argentina, for a tour of other South American countries with your Argentine registered motorcycle with a TEMPORARY VEHICLE EXPORT PERMIT. If and when I have 100 people, I will present the data to a local politician, willing to create legislation clarifying existing laws. The end result might well be to enable a foreign tourist purchasing a new or used Argentine registered motorcycle, to be able to legally exit and return to Argentina with a TEMPORARY VEHICLE EXPORT PERMIT. A big Thank You to those who have already responded. xfiltrate Now on to the topic..... 1. What country will transfer the title of the bike from the seller's name to your name? At first blush, obtaining a Canadian title in your name , would be the way to go, but if a new Canadian license plate is issued and the new title ID # does not match the information on the Temporary Vehicle Import Permit obtained by the seller when he entered the country (ARGENTINA), and your documents are checked by a routine police stop or if you attempt to exit Argentina, you will run the very real risk of having the bike impounded. Some countries will do vehicle title transfers without seller and buyer and the bike appearing physically, for the transfer, others will not. I do not know if Canada will transfer a motor vehicle title from the seller's name to your name without both of you appearing and/or the bike in Canada at the Motor Vehicle agency there. Anyone know about this? Please post. *The law here is to prevent foreigners from entering with a foreign registered motor vehicle and selling it in Argentina. The reason for this law is to protect the motorcycle industry here from having to complete with imported bikes for which import taxes have not been collected, but a Temporary Vehicle Import Permit, with a very specific date before which the registered owner of the bike must (himself) with the bike must exit argentina. 2. Did the seller enter the bike into Argentina on a Temporary Vehicle Import Permit? What is the expiration date on that permit? If the seller's TVIP is expired, the bike might be impounded if this fact comes to the attention of the police. To extend the TVIP, the seller must present himself at Motor Vehicles here, pay and pay a fee, if the TVIP is expired, the seller must pay a huge fine, about $500.00 US dollars (depending on factors unknown to me) ) to obtain an extension. 3. Are you planning to have the bike titled in *Argentina? If so, Please see (*) directly above. Therefore, if you were able to do a Title transfer from the seller, with Canadian title, to you on an Argentine title, you would have to pay import tax and I am not absolutely sure, but it has been reported to me that the import tax could be the amount determined as the value of the bike by customs here, or some multiple thereof.... Also, this process might take one to three months, during which time the bike would not be legal on the streets. Considering the above, I would purchase a used bike here that is registered here. This is a relatively simply process as you know by reading my posts, read about Jeff Condon (GlobeBuster's guide) as he purchased an Argentine registered Citroen 3cv as a foreign tourist and had the Argentine title transferred to his name. Hope this helps, please give me the data I need and I will further advise. thanks and good luck. xfiltrate |
Dakar Christmas
The motorcycle in Buenos Aires is much more than a mode of transportation. Huge numbers of Argentine's know the Darkar is coming, they revel in its' many international flavors. The Argentines are very visual and just as the outside of a horse makes the inside of a man feel good, the sights and sounds of hundreds of international motorcycles rumbling down 9 de Julio, will make Argentina feel good. And, it ain't bad for business either...
The DAKAR, itself, has brought new respect to the thousands of motorcycle messengers that day and night weave in and out of traffic here, much like frantic Santa Clauses delivering toys to the children of the world. On weekends, hundreds of Harley's hit the street, many belonging to members of a first rate Harley Davidson club here, and then there are the national and international motorcycle adventurists. All of these and most of the population of Buenos Aires welcome the DAKAR. Here at the HUBB, we share our joys, our sorrows, our loses and the tidbits of information we have gained from our own motorcycle adventures with each other. We are a tough lot, we come from everywhere and accomplished much... we have united here to help each other and to share our stories. In the spirit of the "DAKAR Christmas" in Buenos Aires, Elisa and I wish each of you a sincere Merry Christmas and know that you have our hopes and our prayers that 09 will be a prosperous and peaceful year for each of you. Thank you, Susan and Grant for establishing these well used and informative lines of communication for us, your hubbers, and thank you to the hubbers, from whom we have learned much. Ed and Elisa |
What if you don't plan on selling the bike in Argentina?
I am a U.S. national flying into Buenos Aires. I want to buy a bike in Argentina and ride back to the U.S.. It sounds like you're the expert and I was hoping you could answer a couple questions for me.
1. The plan you have described says once you have the green card it's no problem to travel throughout S. America, but what about through Central America and back into the USA? 2. Is it possible to buy a U.S. registered bike in Argentina and avoid a lot of the trouble associated with buying a bike registered in Argentina? Thank you for the Help! John Falkner |
2 e-mails sent this night
Hi John, thanks for the post. I have also received your e-mail and have responded. Be sure to see 2nd e-mail as I made 2 minor corrections to the first. Post here for any further questions or share any data you might think relevant to this thread.
Yes, once you legally exit Argentina with a "green card" for an Argentine registered bike you "should" be ok all the way to the States. I have personally entered Chile, Peru, Bolivia Uruguay and Brazil before obtaining my "DNI" Foreign Residence in Argentina. For exit complications see e-mails. I have ridden Central America and Mexico , but not with an Argentine registered bike, so anyone having done this might be a better resource than me. Be sure to read e-mails I just sent you and thanks for your post and posting anything that might help others. xfiltrate |
What would I do?
Bingo, John just asked me the right question via e-mail, so right I am sharing it with whoever reads this well worn thread:
After much discussion regarding pros and cons of buying locally and touring South America, John asked me what I would do if I were in his boots. My answer: slightly amplified from original..... "That is easy. Fly to Buenos Aires, buy a legally Argentine registered new or used motorcycle, have it legally transferred to your name, buy insurance (about $30 dollars US a month) , tour only Argentina, have FUN meet women, make good friends, learn about Argentine culture and learn Spanish, see the sights, RELAX, CAMP or stay in inexpensive hostels, bring your collapsable fishing pole.......(everything you could want is here) then either store the bike in Buenos Aires for your next trip to Argentina or sell the bike in the very hot used bike market here, for just about what you paid for it..... all legal, all easy all fun no problem!!! Remember, You can leave your Argentine registered bike here legally, as long as you want.... xfiltrate" |
Quote:
A trip to Argentina, purchase a bike, ride around for a while, sell bike and fly back home is now close to the top of my "bucket list". |
Nata
Hi, Nata, if I can call you Nata? We are touring, now in cordoba province, but I wanted to say thanks for your post, I think. What is a bucket list? Anyway, it is very easy for a foreigner to buy a new or used bike in Buenos Aires. Get a domacilio 2 days, a CDI from AFIP, 2 hours and find a bike with proper papers , from a dealer or individual, a Gestor, (one who transfers motor vehicle titles) can help with this and let you know if the bike is legal in a matters of minutes upon reviewing the bikes documents.
We have a list of people now hwo have purchased bikes and cars as foreigners in Buenos Aires. The only problem is the confusion about a foreigner leaving Argentina with the Argentine registered bike/car. I am working on this, a clarification of the law from the legislature here. Keep reading this thread and posting thanks xfiltrate. see my post at HU bar for a good laugh at a true story xfiltrate |
Cost of new bikes
I been kicking tyres in BA and was shocked to see the price of bikes here.
The ticket price on a new Honda Transalp 700 is an eye watering US $12250. There are a large number of older Transalps here in Argentina in very good condition. I am off to put the U lock on mine right now. Steve |
KLR for sale in B.A.
Great bike!!! I rode my 2000 KLR 650 down from Arkansas. 5 months on the road. Time to go back to work. I would love to sell my bike here in Argentina. It´s in great shape and comes with everything you need. Just fly down, turn the key and your on your way to an adventure of a life time.
Cheers, Rugger |
08 Klr 650 on its way to BA
Hi , I am on my way down from Brasil right now wondering what to do with my bike like many others .. my bike is for sale or i can just store it ... haven´t decided yet . I will be in BA in about a week . If anyone is interested it is U.S. registered with 20,000 miles on it , good shape runs great ! All racks and cases included . Cheers
|
Just wanted to let you all know, that Karin is getting some things online on Overland Traveling. She is mentioning the HUBB as well, and I thought bringing it here, not so sure where to put it.
See you on the road [now Cordoba province, soon heading north] |
| All times are GMT +1. The time now is 23:39. |