Buying a motorcycle in South America
 

A friend of mine is interested in buying a second hand motorcycle in south america, possibly off another traveller.

Whats the deal with registering the bike to him? Does he need an american address to register it to. Or does he register it to a adress in the uk (his final destination).

Also how long does it take to be registered in the new name, as Im sure he will need the paperwork to cross borders etc.

He plans to do the americas and canada then fly the bike out of the country.

Just my 2 cents worth from reading lots of posts on the subject.

Firstly buying legally in South America can be problematic depending on the country. Chile is one of the better countries to buy legally in, Argentina one of the more difficult.
Many travellers sell their bikes to other travellers illegally and the motorcycle stays in South America until it falls apart. There is only a problem if you were to take it into the U.S for example or export to Europe. Its easier for a US citizen for example to buy from another US citizen and transfer the title legally while on the road. I'm not entirely sure this is doable in your friends case. It depends on where the motorcycle was originally registered.

He will pay a premium for any bike he buys in SA over 400 cc. Far more than the equivalent bike in Europe. The shipping costs of returning from Canada to Europe will make it an even more expensive option. I personally don't see the point of buying in SA and shipping home. Some ship their own bike to SA but they are usually doing an around the world and perhaps have a lot invested in the bike and/or sufficient funds to ship it as required.

If I was him I would start in the US. Its relatively easy to register in many states, even as a non resident and he will get far more for his money than buying in SA. Do the trip in reverse and finish in Chile or Argentina and sell it to another traveller (he may even get what he paid for it!) No shipping costs required.
Or buy a small locally made 150 cc bike for under $2000 US which will get him anywhere he wants to go albeit more slowly.
Either way I don't think flying to SA, buying a more expensive machine than he would buy at home and then shipping it back is worth the hassle or the cost.


Lots of threads on this if you do a decent search of the HUBB using google rather than the sites search engine.

Cheers

Contrary to the post above, overlanders often sell their European or North American bikes in South America at seriously discounted prices. I assumed that was what the OP was asking about.

There are some tricks to transferring ownership. The way it's usually done is not totally legal, therefore seldom described in detail. There are also a few potential pitfalls, so the process needs to be thought through in some detail. However, if you do a search and settle in for some reading you'll figure it out easily enough.

Not sure why your friend isn't researching this himself.

Mark

A quick look at what's available on the HUBB currently in SA and the comparative prices in the US and Uk are fairly indicative of what I have seen over the last few years and indicate that there are rarely any bargains to be had worth shipping home to the UK after your trip.

A 2008 KLR 650 28k miles $4,500 US for sale in SA
A quick google and I found a US based 2008 KLR with 6k miles on the clock for $3,300

A 2008 DR 650 37,200K miles for sale in SA $3,500 US
For sale in US a 2008 DR 650 5,600k miles $3,600 US

A 2004 BMW F650 GS 56,250 k miles $3,000 US (has had a crash, electrical problems etc)
In UK same model 2004 F650 GS with 19k miles (also panniers, scott oiler other mod's) for $4,750

So add another 25k miles to the GS and you are shipping home a bike with say 80 k miles, and add another say$2,000 US shipping and there is no benefit to be had other than APITA to arrange if in fact its legal.

If he chooses to go down the illegal route which you mentioned, I doubt many overlanders who photo shop their title in SA would risk customs in Canada and the UK for a high mileage motorcycle with little to gain in terms of obtaining a "bargain".

The reality is bikes in SA over 650 cc are at a premium.
Generally demand exceeds supply so in fact you get far less for your money than you would in the US.(sure factor in $1,000 you save not crossing the gap and you might get free mod's you may have never put on your own bike anyway)
You might get it cheaper than in the UK but factor in the reality you are buying a Motorcycle that has probably already done a lot of miles, taken a fair amount of abuse and may or may not have been maintained very well and then after you buy it ( lets say 30-50k average is fairly common?) add on easily another 25k miles doing SA and NA.

Sure, occasionally you might get a sweet deal if its at the end of the season, they are on a deadline etc and I even remember a guy who gave his bike away.
But remember these bikes have been around the block and your going to give it twice the beating before spending $2,000 US on top to ship it back to the Uk.
If you can find any current "bargains" which would be worth anybody shipping back to the Uk after their trip I would be very surprised.

Would like to know the actual reason he wants to ship it home.

Well, if what you meant to say was that it's not worth buying in South America in order to ship home to the UK, that's a different story from "He will pay a premium for any bike he buys in SA over 400 cc. Far more than the equivalent bike in Europe."
I've seen bikes languish in South and Central America when people try to sell at Euro--or even American--prices. The ones I'm aware of which actually changed hands generally went cheaply. Javier's rule of thumb, which was to sell at the price you could get back home for a given bike minus the cost of shipping and minus the costs of the mods and accessories, has always seemed applicable.

I can't account for what you see reading ads on the HUBB. I see lots of people hoping for far too much money, just as I saw when I was riding around down there. Anyone can ask price they want; what matters is what they actually accept.

Mark

[QUOTE=markharf;418342]Well, if what you meant to say was that it's not worth buying in South America in order to ship home to the UK,

I was fairly clear about what I meant to say. My whole post was based on the premise that the Op's mate was going to ship the bike back to the UK.
I have not heard or read about a single overlander who bought a bike in SA that had inevitably done 2 or more tours of the Americas that then shipped it home to the UK because they thought they were getting a "bargain" compared to local prices. This might happen once in a blue moon. Hardly worth planning a trip on?

that's a different story from
[I]"He will pay a premium for any bike he buys in SA over 400 cc.
Far more than the equivalent bike in Europe."

You seem to have cut and pasted my statement to fit your argument or didnt read my post properly. I said far more than the equivalent bike in the US NOT Europe. I acknowledged that you might get a cheaper deal in SA than Europe. Ill clarify further by saying smaller bikes in SA are ubiquitous and cheap. As soon as you go over 400cc (actually even over 250cc) the prices jump substantially. This is regardless of wether the bike is new or a used overlanders.
My comment was based on the fact that at the end, once shipped home you have a higher mileage bike that is not a bargain.You save on shipping but the bike will invariably have done a lot of miles on worse roads with inevitable wear and tear. BUT its a South American marketplace not a European one and comparatively to Smaller bikes you will pay a premium for bigger bikes.

Im in a similar position coming from Australia. I paid almost 50% more for my triumph Bonneville last year than I would have in the US. But If I flew to the US, bought a bike with 30k miles on it, added another 20k miles or more I would not be getting a bargain once I paid to ship it home.

So going back to the OP's original premise of buying with a view to shipping it home I still say that its highly unlikely there are any bargains to be picked up worth shipping back to the UK after your trip. A waste of money and APITA to arrange on the road depending on where it was registered,who sold the bike to you and wether you can trust them or not.

["I've seen bikes languish in South and Central America when people try to sell at Euro--or even American--prices. The ones I'm aware of which actually changed hands generally went cheaply. Javier's rule of thumb, which was to sell at the price you could get back home for a given bike minus the cost of shipping and minus the costs of the mods and accessories, has always seemed applicable"

You consistently see US bikes, like the examples I gave, selling in SA for well above what the same bike would cost at home so the rule of thumb does not practically seem to apply in a lot of cases. So it was my personal opinion only that If I was planning to do north and South America it makes more sense to buy the low mileage,better maintained and cheaper US bike in the US, tour USA and Canada then go south where you are likely to recoup a lot of your investment from a fellow overlander.

bought bike legally
 

Hi

I just bought a bike at the Brazil mini meeting off another traveler.
the whole process took about 3hr.
Rod at the hostel, albergue, hotel para motociclistas
was great and helped in the whole process.
I bought bike from a Englishmen and bike (German)Uk rego.
I'm from Australia and having previously lived and worked in the UK
had no issue with address and the like
the brazil customs was no problem and i can leave the country
just on the Notary and there docs.
On the Rd now and will recieve my new DVLA docs in a few weeks

jeiger

Ok, I'm curious.

It's a UK registered bike. YOu have re-registered it with the DVLA using a UK address ?

The temp import has been transferred to your name ?

Details are needed for other travelers who may wish to do the same.

Yes given the problem a lot of Aussies have had getting this done in the UK it would be interesting to know if this is doable on the road.

Didn't know there were any problems for the aussies

Hey Bruce you just answered it

Based on my many years of experience as a permanent foreign resident of Argentina and the experience of several others who were foreign tourists who have benefitted from legally purchasing and selling bikes in one or another South American counties... you might want to consider flying to South America - let's say to Chile or Argentina where as a foreign tourist you can easily buy a second hand locally registered bike... and register it locally in your name ... perhaps an NX400 Honda Falcon, ride it until you are done in that country.... then legally sell it and pocket the money - with a little fix up - racks etc, you may even be able to sell it for more than you bought it for....

Travel to the next country, legally buy another locally registered second hand bike, fix it up for touring, tour and then legally sell it in that country. Pocket the money. - Go home with the money in your pocket or repeat the process... and always sell the bike legally before leaving the country where you purchased it, or park it and have it waiting for you when you return to that country.

Just a thought that might , just might be right for you. - never pay shipping or port fees etc, just purchase locally and park the bike for your next visit, or sell it locally.

xfiltrate eat, drink and be careful

Buying a bike from a foreigner
 

Selling the bike to another foreigner has been a real dilemma, but I believe I've found the solution for this question, at least when we're talking about countries that are part of the MERCOSUL.

I've done this procedure already for Cadjuka and Kito, both HU users, it demands some burocratic works that would not be feasible for a foreigner doing it, but as I'm quite used with Customs issues due to my work here in Iguazu, I spoke with the right people and found a legal way for people being able to enter, ride and leave Brazil using a bike registered in someone else's name.

After producing the right docs, notary, receita federal(aduan), etc, for legal procedures, the buyer will have the TIP under his name, even with the bike docs. under someone else's name and the seller will have the bike cleared out of Brazil with no responsability anymore, so it means it's legal for the customs, police and other institutions, including airport and ports. The person who's buying the bike will be allowed to enter ride and leave Brazil legally, also will be able to ship out the bike to anywhere.

All the procedures are based on the 1969 Viena Convention and MERCOSUL agreements, the principles used are the same for exporting and importing among theses countries.

I'm based in Foz do Iguaçu, Brasil, if anyone need info about this kind of procedures, please PM me or email: rodolfofoz "at" hotmail.com

Cheers

Rod

buying a motorcycle in Colombia
 

Does anyone have first hand experience buying a new motorcycle in Colombia and taking it out of the country? I see different countries are easier/harder Chile seems like an easy option, but would love any info on doing this in Colombia.

thanks

The only flaw/catch I can see with this is that the new owner will not have the V5C (UK reg doc) in his/her name. This (in my experience) would cause problems entering Peru. (unless they get the V5C forwarded)

But otherwise it looks like you have solved a major problem for a lot of people.

The V5 was posted to my home in england . 1 week later my mum recived the V5 and forward it to DVLA . as far as they know it is just like any other bike sale going on on english soil so to speek . only difference is the posting time of the V5 to the UK. With the help of Rod and by posting the V5 home the sale was fully legal. The was no stamping out of one country and the buyer stamping into the next country as most people do . The customs guys removed my temp import I signed it then they issued a new temp import in the buyers name. Any one thinking of going down this route I would fully recomend employing Rods services. well worth the money to know your fully legal

Where hardest part of the whole south America trip seems to decide where and how to buy a bike...

I don't mean to hijack your thread but this is the same topic I was about to post.
So from what I keep hearing chili is the easiest country to buy a bike in, but does f one wants to do all of South America will you run into any problems at borders (seems like you will).
Buying the bike legally seems like the only option in chili due to its low corruption rate.
So is that the best option or is it better to just buy in another country illegally and just bribe when you have to?

I'm from Western canada, i could buy a klr650 here and drive it south but i feel it would be cheaper and a better use of my time to stick to south America with a used bike, being that shipping a bike by air after modifying it would cost a fair amount

Where hardest part of the whole south America trip seems to decide where and how to buy a bike...

I don't mean to hijack your thread but this is the same topic I was about to post.
So from what I keep hearing chili is the easiest country to buy a bike in, but does f one wants to do all of South America will you run into any problems at borders (seems like you will).
Buying the bike legally seems like the only option in chili due to its low corruption rate.
So is that the best option or is it better to just buy in another country illegally and just bribe when you have to?

I'm from Western canada, i could buy a klr650 here and drive it south but i feel it would be cheaper and a better use of my time to stick to south America with a used bike, being that shipping a bike by air after modifying it would cost a fair amount

Does anyone know the law regarding borrowing either a foreign registered bike for use in Argentina and also the law regarding borrowing a locally registered bike in Argentina ?

cheers, Ted

There has been some good advice given in this thread. I have heard that a foreigner can inexpensively buy a Chilean bike in one of their free trade zones.

I still think the Grey Market option is the best one. Kito, already commented about how this method is done. Note: The Hubb does not endorse this method and I am not recommending it. The buyer and seller usually cross a local border together. Before crossing the border, the buyer borrows the sellers original title, registration, and Temporary Import Permit. He photoshops the sellers name, DL# and address and swaps his own in for them. He then makes good color copies of the paperwork. The seller and the buyer usually ride together on the bike and cross the border into the neighboring country. The Buyer uses his set of paperwork and gets an exit stamp for the bike and himself in his passport. Note: if your passport is brand spanking new than you don't want to try this most likely. It would be a better idea to rack up some stamps crossing local borders and make it look like you have been traveling in the area for a bit.

I watched my Australian friend sell his Canadian KLR to a Polish guy in Mendoza, Argentina this way. They crossed the border into Chile together and completed the sale this way.

I think it is important that you make the deal contingent upon the seller successfully crossing into the next country with you. Offer him a ride back but don't give him any money until you have good paperwork.


Another, less grey market option would be for you and the seller to have a Power of Attorney made up by a local lawyer which allows you to use his property for some good reason (he was injured, family illness, serving active duty, etc) but the seller might not be comfortable with the liability involved with a power of attorney. Also, I heard of someone who successfully used a Power of Attorney to cross borders but I think it would be difficult in a few countries and with a few personalities.

Peru would appear to be the hardest to get into as since 2012 they apear to have clamped down on crossing from Chile/Bolivia when the owner is not with the vehicle

I second this question .any updated info in buying a bike in Colombia and travel SA with it?

cheers :thumbup1:

Just a caution that a lot of the advice in this thread is out of date. Procedures in Chile have changed (for the worse?) and Brazil no longer issue TIPs (which might be a good thing)

So whats changed ??

Where is now the best country to buy a used vehicle in South America.

I heard that Ecuador was the easiest.

Easy to forget that the only constant is change.

As far as I know, it is no problem. New V-Strom 650s are only $8000 there.

yes I heard that too from a local tour operator.will take 3/4 days to register .Vstrom is a good rd bike(I have one) although my plan is to get a Tenere' (they also have a lightweight 250cc version there! ) more suitable on/off rd .then make a giant 2 months (?) loop crossing also the amazon. late july/august dry season there :punk: :punk:

here is the idea:

https://www.google.co.th/maps/dir/Gu...7579!3e0?hl=en

The Chilean process now includes the requirement of a Chilean citizen to sign some paperwork on your behalf. (To obtain a RUT Number which you need to buy a vehicle).

Luckily for us Cristian, owner of Hostal Casa Matte in Santiago (Somewhere all overlanders should stay anyway) knows the procedure and is willing to help fellow bikers out.

It is still technically possible to jump through all the hoops and buy a brand new bike in one day (Although give it a couple).

I want a way to buy a cheap second hand bike LEGALLY which will be easy to sell to another gringo or a bike shop in another country after a tour.. Hmm

It is "in another country" requirement that is the problem, especially if "LEGALLY" is also a requirement

Buy and Sell in Argentina
 

It is legal for a foreign tourist who has entered Argentina on a tourist visa to buy and sell new or used Argentine registered motorcycles in Argentina.

Detailed instructions are available at my recently redesigned web site below
just click on "Buy a motorcycle in Argentina"

Once you have purchased an Argentine registered motorcycle you can keep it
in Argentina forever, but a foreign tourist cannot take her or his Argentine registered motorcycle out of the country of Argentina.

Many foreign tourists buy and sell Argentine registered motorcycles and/or vehicles every year.

rosa del desierto

Just in case this thread gets a new lease on life, a few weeks ago Brazil didn't issue TIPs but in line with the "only constant is change" saying, since about a month ago Brazil DOES again issue TIPs. It was a temporary change for the world cup influx but obviously it is not going to continue until after the Olympics.
Reports are that it is the usual 90 days, possibly extendable for a further 90 days

Can it be more legally? Like this:
Is it good option for changing owner in the title (write new owner in the bottom part) of the USA-registered bike behind the borders?
I mean next: you cross the first border with a previous owner when he is a driver. Then you put to the title new owner and cross the next border when driver is you. Does any problem with PIT? I should to have stamps of me and of the bike?

Paperwork option
 

To join in with the discussion
after looking through this and all the other threads I could see on the wonderful HUBB and elsewhere as far as can see for those wanting to buy off another traveler there seem to be 3 options

1/ Fudging the paperwork into your name (see others posts- mixed opinions on whether this is advisable, strong opinions against; some folk seem to have no problems but don't want to openly advocate for obvious reasons)

2/ Crossing border with the seller and sorting paperwork this way (grey market- not generally advisable. seems to share risk between seller/buyer)

3. getting a notary to transfer ownership and keeping original paperwork- some folk state no problems as some borders and some state would not be let into some countries ( e.g peru seems to be strict with this)

This is all based on other opinions and NONE of my first hand experience. As have yet to set off.
Personally it seems using a notary and then potentially some backed up documents in a new name :innocent: in case any problems


Has any one had experiencing using these paperwork to cross borders?

I personally will be trying to go through Ecuador, Peru, Bolivia, Argentina y Brazil. Starting in Colombia. Keen to know if this would work!

Thanks :scooter:

A Change of Heart
 

bier
DR11 As one who has resided in South America and posted here for the last ten years or so, I have always advocated the safest and most secure route for the transfer of title for motorcycles in South America, I applaud you for your due diligence and polite manner.

Grant - our benevolent HU benefactor has granted lee way for the posting of creative title transfer processes in South America - and he is the authority.

Therefore, while not endorsing either one , two or three, of your very perceptive analysis, I would say that if you can find a legally operating notary , with up to date credentials, oh yeah there are many "unofficial" notaries operating throughout South America, who is willing to "transfer ownership" of a foreign registered bike having entered a South American country on a TVIP, you will have a fall back position - in the event of future problems. You can always claim that you sought legal advice and were misled....

I admire your willingness to explore, question and be creative in order to accomplish your title transfer. I also wish you success in your endeavor and look forward to your future posts.

If you are successful, and manage to effect the title transfer legally, you will be setting a long sought after precedent here. Please continue to post here.

Thank you for your efforts and sharing with us. When you arrive Buenos Aires, rosa del desierto and I would like to invite you for a beer and introduce you to Argentine friends. Mucha suerte amigo.

xfiltrate

PS: When dealing verbally with border officials, it is always better to get each opinion in writing with a name and identity attached. I have verbally received more than 5 distinct answers when asking 5 South American border officials one simple question. If you get a variety of answers, and you most likely will, simply choose the most common answer. If it is a tie, keep asking the question. Keep notes with the names and identities and this too will be an invaluable fall back position if you encounter problems in the future.

Accurate information available on another thread
 

D11,
You might want to visit:

http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...tes-zona-84884

Sojourning Mendicant seems to have a workable plan. He will be posting
regarding his success in transferring the seller's TVIP in country soon.

Sojourning Mendicant is very determined, studious and has documented consistent opinions from various authorities.

Way to go Sojourning Mendicant!!!

xfiltrate