Buying motorbike with foreign plates in Zona Franca in Chile
 

Hi guys!

I am considering to buy a KLR 650 on Washington State plates in the Zona Franca in Puntas Arenas in Chile.
Does anybody how that would work in terms of reregistration and exiting Chile?

I am now in Colombia but planning on flying down to Puntas Arenas mid January for a 7 month travel back north again:)

Any help would be much appreciated, Merry Chrtismas!

Rubin

I would say you still have to deal with getting out with a TIP in the previous owners name. Possibly use a poder signed by the current owner, but may still be issues with that poder being recognised at any subsequent borders. Then if you are wanting the deal to end up legal, you have to end up going in to a country with new plates and paperwork in your name and the TIP in your name too. Possible a way of doing it legally within Chile's system, but that might be a long procedure.

Someone on another forum detailed her procedure for changing registration back in Washington state - involving friends back home doing it all with a letter of authorisation and DHLing the new plates and documents down, BUT that was to be done while the vehicle was in Brazil so there was no TIP to be concerned about.

All gets very messy which is why many take the easy, and irresponsible and stupid way out of generating false documents.

What advice is the current owner giving you - other than the usual "don't worry, trust me, my system works" which might be OK if the next sentence is "and I'm so confident, that the deal is $100 down, and the balance payable within 30 days of clearing customs at the border".

Hi. Thanks for the advice.

I'm a bit new to all this. What is a TIP and a poder?


I was indeed planning on reregistering the bike in Washington and having plates/documentation send back to me. As far as I've learned it should be a pretty straight forward procedure.
Like you point out I is not a good idea to falsify documentation, so I would rather like to avoid that:)

The seller brought bike down from the states and registration is in his name, so he does not know for sure either if it's feasible to sell there. We are trying to work it out:)

I bought several bikes from travelers here in Punta Arenas, where I live. The process is very easy but you must have a RUN (Chilean document) which Indont know if can be easily obtained for a foreigner (I guess not that easy). Then you can have the bike on your name and go anywhere.
However, in order to have the bike in your name, you must go through customs clearance which means the bike have to stay at their warehouse while customs check previous papers, this can take from two weeks to three months. Once papers are cleared up you can get all the Chilean documentS for the bike on your name. So, even if you get a "poder" from a third party (a Chilean who get the bike on his name and assume a permit for you to go abroad) you have to consider that time.
Of course, as Tony said above, that permit may not be valid to cross a third border.
Good luck

Nothing fun for free
 

Hi thanks for the advice. From what you explain that might be a pretty lengthy process. Three months in customs.. I hope not:) Do you have any tips on where to start if i want to obtain a RUN document as a foreigner? Maybe you've dealt with a good lawyer down there? I am flying down to Punta Arenas in a week:)

Is there no way I could get the bike registered in the US, get a notarised bill of sale in Zona Franca, and then just exit Chile on old papers and enter Argentina with the new registration?

Well, I have good news for you, a friend of mine who works on Customs. Offices explained me that there are two ways:
1. You can have the customs papers transferred to your name; in order to do so, you can go to customs (aduana) office and have new papers on your name and then get the bike out of the country. If you also have new papers on your name you'll not have any trouble.
2. You can get a provisional RUT (Chilean document) at Servicio de Impuestos Internos (Tax office) and then having the bike officially transferred to you. This is the best way as you will actually own your Chilean bike. Trouble is you may have to wait for Customs' clearance of the papers. This can take several weeks but my friend said they can speed up the process when the bike won't stay in the country.
Hope this work.

In Punta arenas and need some help
 

Hi Shp224.

Thanks for your advice man. We've decided to try to go the way of registering the bike in Chile with Chilean plates. I will today go to the SII with a Chilean friend to get an RUT document. After ive obtained the RUT how do I proceed?

Maybe you could put me in touch with your friend at customs?

Any help will be much appreciated!

Kind regards Rubin

you can not get chilean plates for your bike, who told you you can?

ONLY a person oficially living in the zona franca for at least 5 years can do so.

so you can hand the bike over to a local, he than gets chilean plates, but thats no good to you, the bike can not be sold for 3 years and can only be used be the owner outside of the zona franca and only for 2 months per year.

Please keep us updated! I'd also like to buy a US plated/registered motorcycle through the free zone and ride it around S. America for awhile and then sell it again (I would NOT take it back to the US) and I'm trying to figure out how to do this legally by S. American standards!

Buy and Sell in South America for a profit & Get High!
 

Let's say you have only $3,500 USD to buy a motorcycle, or even less, and you want to ride Chile, Peru, Ecuador, Colombia, Bolivia, Brazil and Argentina and you want to return home with your initial investment of $3,500.00 USD in your pocket - here is one way to do it.

Remember, you will need a minimum of $25-$50 USD for every day you will be riding to cover gas, lodging and food + play money add about $30.00 USD per month for motorcycle insurance, and buy international accident medical policy as medical may not be offered with the motorcycle insurance.

Buy your helmet, GPS, universal soft luggage tank bag, tail bag and saddlebags, tire repair, air pump, first aid + mountain camping gear light tent, pad, bag and stove if you will be camping. The $25-$50 per diem suggests camping every other night.

Fly to any of the previously mentioned countries, go to a reputable Honda or any authorized brand dealer and buy a second hand bike for no more than $3,000.00 USD -and with the $500.00 add a wind screen, and other overland kit "cubremanos" maybe even bash plate and racks... The dealer will handle all paper work to insure you have legal title, local plates and will recommend a reputable insurance company.

Tour that country, slowly and enjoy yourself.... make sure you immediately put a "for sale sign ($4,000.00 USD or local currency) on your kitted out bike" and then legally sell the bike to another reputable dealer, or a private party by using a "gestor' (one who transfers vehicle titles as a business).

Bus to another of the countries you want to tour, with the $4,000.00 in hand, using your same soft luggage/camping gear and find another bike for $3,000.00 and spend $500.00 kitting it out as an overlander and since you are getting better at this game, after you slowly tour your second country with your "for sale" sign sell this bike for $4,500.00.

The allure of a kitted out over land "looking" think Dakar bike is a real treasure to locals and the second hand motorcycle market in South American cities is hot , hot, hot. Don't forget to bring with you or buy any interesting decals and pass these on to the new buyers. This is a nice touch and usually gets a big smile. There is a lot of show and little go among those who actually have a job enabling them to buy, but you can play that to your advantage.

Just repeat this process - remember, always trade up and sell for more each time, but never invest more than $3,500 USD for bike and extras.

Carry your camping gear in your soft luggage and use it with each bike you buy... and when you are ready to fly home you can sell your camping gear and soft luggage for a profit.

It is legal for a foreign tourist entering each of the countries I mentioned on a tourist visa to legally buy and sell locally titled motorcycles. The dealers will handle all the paperwork. You may not be legal to leave the country with the motorcycle, but you can park it/store it in the country where you bought it forever.

I know one person who actually doubled his original investment of $3,000.00 USD - thus having $6,000.00 USD in his pocket when he flew home. The profit of $3,000.00 paid for 60 days on the road at $50.00 USD per day and he still had the original investment of $3,000.00 USD in pocket.

If you plan a circular tour, you can take advantage of round trip air fare or check Onetravel.com for multiple city fares.

Let me know how it works out for you. We are now in Mexico, will be in Arizona, Spain and back to Buenos Aires by November 2016.

I more than doubled my investment by legally buying an old Harley Davidson in Buenos Aires, fixed it up a little and legally sold it in Buenos Aires. Always hire a reputable "gestor" to do the title transfer for you. Saves a lot of time and it will be done legally.

xfiltrate

But xfiltrate, what has this got to do with the Zona Franca in Chile?

The original question was "Does anybody how that would work in terms of reregistration and exiting Chile?"

Groschi, you for one has seriously suggested it can't be done so the thread is at a dead end. However Xfiltrate has kindly spent a fair bit of time typing out a suggestion that converts the dead end into a possible route through the whole of the americas,

Buying in Chile
 

Groschi,

The "Buying motorbike with foreign plates..." indicates that the Rubin86 for whatever reason wants to buy a motorcycle in Chile. To me, the foreign plates, the Zona Franco seem to be just dressing. If Rubin wants to buy a motorcycle in Chile, as a foreign tourist there is a legal way to do so, without all the intrigue and if Rubin86 wants to sell the motorcycle he bought in Chile, after all, he is writing from Colombia and speaks of flying down, this would be logical. Anyone who has actually studied Mercosur law will agree that buying a foreign registered motorcycle in Chile if the motorcyle entered Chile on a TVIP is illegal.

The Zona Franco angle was addressed by Groshci - and he, "you" are correct. Since not being able to register the foreign registered bike in Chile,and not beign able to sell the bike for years etc and having to deal with the fact that the bike might have been imported via the Zona Franco thus complicating the xfiltration of the bike out of Chile, I thought that providing a legal alternative - legally buying a second hand bike registered in Chile, and then selling it for a profit in Chile, using the money to buy a second hand bike registered in Peru, and selling it, doing the same with a second hand bike registered in Ecuador and selling that bike and then entering back into Colombia having had the opportunity to tour Chile and Peru and possibly Bolivia and other countries and returning to Colombia with a profit that would enable him to buy another bike legally in Colombia.

Since Rubin86 has no "home" country listed, all I have had to go on was the fact that he stated he was in Colombia and would fly down to Chile. Had I thought of it earlier, he could save the plane fare by buying and selling , as explained above and in my original post this thread - in a reverse manner. Thus, he would buy in legally in Colombia and sell legally, Buy legally in Peru and sell legally, buy legally in Chile and sell legally and then do the process as originally described.

Now, if Rubin86 - who I can only guess is Colombian - based perhaps incorrectly on his semantics, and he has no connection to the Washington registered bike located in the Zona Franco Chile other than responding to an ad, and he does not know if the bike has been confiscated by customs for auction, stolen, has photoshop paperwork etc, then the question might well be what does buying a Washington registered bike a Zona Franco Chile have to do with my post becomes a mute issue. What I have suggested is a viable legal alternative.

xfiltrate

Definitely doable
 

Sorry it's taken so long to get back to you guys, I've been hiking in the Patagonian mountains. There seems to be a lot of different information going around, so let me tell you what I learned.

Firstly. I am a Norwegian, and was traveling in Colombia before I chose to fly down to Punta Arenas to purchase bike. The motorbike has Washington license plates and I was debating whether to reregister title in Washington or try to get a Chilean license plate. BOTH OPTIONS, I have learned, are ABSOLUTELY DOABLE!

To get Chilean plates on bike follow these steps.

1. Get a notarized bill of sale at local notatio in Punta Arenas (you will need seller and buyer to be present with IDs and have original title with you).

2. Go to the aduana office in Zona Franca (this is a different office from the one located in downtown Punta Arenas) to request a change of name on the T IP. Buyer and seller both need to be present for this too.

3. Get a RUT-number. This is like a social-security number in chile that gives you the right to buy and sell stuff there (amongst other things). This can be obtained pretty easily at the Tax office in downtown Punta Arenas. This took me about an hour of filling out forms and the like. You Will need an address in Chile, but I just used my hostels address. They will then issue you a RUT-number straight away and mail you your RUT card in 2-3 months to the address provided.
When reasearching this I found a lot of people meant you have to have a Chilean "sponsor" to vouch for you in order to obtain a RUT, but I did not need to do so. I will however reccomend you bring someone to help you if you are not fluent in Spanish.

4. After you have obtained the RUT you can now legally purchase and regregister a vehicle in Chile. To make the process easier I contacted a private customs agent to help with reregistration. His name is Alejandro Etcheverry Arentsen and his office is located near the Aduana building in Punta Arenas.
He quoted me these tentative prices as a courtesy (note that this is just a rough estimate. I just have this handwritten note in Spanish so bear with me):

Use of storage Zona Franca 60 USD
Sales tax Zona Franca 1.85% 9 USD
Something Cobro admin fees .53% 3 USD
Almerensje? (Don't know what that is) 45 USD
Aja aduana 150 USD

Roughly 300 USD in total, but bear in mind that our sale price was low (500 USD). So actual fees might be quite a bit higher if you have higher sale price.

One thing to take into consideration is that bike will be held up in customs for at least 7-10 work days while the Aduana check that the bike is legal etc. So you will be without your bike for quite some time.
Also. Since you are registering bike in Zona Franca you will not be able to use the bike in other parts of Chile for more than 60 days. I was, however, planning on driving bike back to Colombia so this was of little concern to me.
Thirdly, you will have a problem if you are in another country and wish to change the name on the title when you sell bike, as this can only be done in Chile as far as I know.

Definitely doable part two
 

I know this is possible because I actually did all the things described above. I have also met several people who have sucsessfully transferred the title from a foreign bike to a Chilean one. Mostly locals buying foreign bikes or cars and then getting local plates for them, but as long as long as you have a RUT you can do the same. If you have any problems you can try to ask for Aldo at the Aduana office, he was of great help trying to sort things out.

In the end however, I chose to change the title in Wahington instead. Main reasons for this were: 1. I can change title legally if and when I chose to sell bike. 2. Bike will not be held up in customs. 3. It was a bit cheaper.

All went well and I am now waiting for new title and license plate to arrive by mail.

Hope this clears up things a bit.

and that is the main criteria for success. Trouble is in a lot of countries/states/provinces that can't be done.
Still can leave the problem of a new 'owner' getting the vehicle out of the current country when the TIP is still in the previous owners name and a poder might still be needed. Might not be a problem in Chile but other countries aren't always so flexible.

Hi Tony. Well here in chile it will work, that I know for sure. I've met people who've done it.
Other than that I guess yes you're right, there are places it could be difficult, but I guess one just has to plan ahead a bit. One option is to accompany the buyer between borders. Sell the bike after you signed out of one country and have buyer take bike with new title in hand to new country. Point is, people are selling and buying bikes all the time so it can be done!
I've already bought mine and I'll post here if I run into any difficulties:)

Questions for definitely doable
 

Dear rubin86 aka: definitely doable,

Have you happened to check how to transfer a title of a vehicle registered in
the State of Washington?

WA State Licensing (DOL) Official Site: Transfer ownership of a vehicle when buying from a private party

A couple questions - what address did you use in the State of Washington? are you not a resident of Norway officially?

If the address you have provided the Washington State Department of Licensing was in one of the following counties:
Clark County
King County
Pierce County
Snohomish County
Spokane County

You will need to have authorized emissions testing done before the title will be transferred.

How are you dealing with getting a new Washington license plate once the title is transferred into your name? This is a separate process.

What notary did you use as required by Washinton State to obtain:

"Vehicle Certificate of Ownership (Title) Application – Sign it in front of a:
notary public, or
licensing agent at an office."

Did you find a notary authorized by Washington State in Chile?

Remember, to include details as others might try to actually do what you claim is definitely doable and find out differently...

Please note that if any part of a title transfer operation is not legal - this creates a possible loop hole, so as not to be held accountable, for an insurance company in the event of an accident with substantial personal injury and or property damage to others.

Your insurance company will look for any loop hole to abandon their coverage rather than pay court costs, liability etc. , including bailing you out of jail after the accident.

Please be more specific regarding your Washington State title transfer for others -

As you have expressed you plan on not changing the title until you sell the bike? How do you protect the seller from potential liability if the title remains in his/her name? And, you while riding the bike incur liability?

Accidents due occur and even if not your fault will become your fault if your riding a bike with an illegally transferred title.

Could you be more specific - remember the title transfer laws for motorcycles registered in the Untied States differ from State to State.

Those reading here who are considering purchasing a motorcyle registered in the United States should carefully research the title transfer requirements of the State where the motorcycle is registered. (available online)

And one more question - about the TVIP.... each South American country borders the next country - there is no official "no man's land" except in a few cases where the border is officially disputed. You are either in one country or another
and are definitely in the jurisdiction of one country or another. If questioned - your no man's land title transfer was done in one country or the other. You might fool the border officials, but try fooling a real attorney regarding the providence of a title and that my friend is a different story.

xfiltrate

Dear Mr xfiltrate aka healthy scheptisim expressed in many words.

I don't really know where to start or what to reply other than that I have completed transfer of title in Washington, and am as we speak awaiting title and plate in the mail to Chile. It is confirmed. No speculation. I am not trying to mislead anyone.

I am aware that rules and regulations differ greatly from state to state, you can however change name on title without being a resident in Washington state. They require you to write a statement where you declare where you are a resident, and a copy of your drivers license.

The application was submitted to Clark County.

You will need to fill out a bill of sale (form found on the webpage you so kindly linked too).

Then you will also have to print and fill out a application of new title from the same. This application is the only document that needs to be notarized. I had mine notarized at a local notarization office in Punta Arenas. I cannot speak as to the legality of this, but it certainly was enough for the change of title to go through.

There is also a part of the old title that needs to follow this application, which absolves the seller of any further responsibilities. This is on the backside of the original title, it's green. A reading of the mileage will be on there too, and the document needs to be signed of seller and buyer respectively.

So o put all these documents together and mailed them along with postage stamps (3 usd) and a personal check (180 usd) that covered the fees. 50 of the 180 usd were for an rapid issuance of lisence plate. The following day title and lisence plate were mailed to my family in the US. They were then forwarded to me and I am now awaiting those documents to reach me here in Punta Arenas.

I can and will not entertain any hypothetical questions about the TVIP and the legality of this. I am not a lawyer. I am just a dude trying to work out the kinks in the road (pun intended) as I go along.

Rubin86, thanks for providing clear, accurate, detailed information. It's nice to see posts which differentiate what is known from idle speculation, and which allow readers to confirm or disconfirm at their leisure.

I live in Washington State. I've posted here in the past to point out that non-residents can legally transfer ownership here. It ain't rocket science.

xfiltrate, your research skills are no match for the certainty with which you sometimes post. For example, motorcycles are exempt from emissions testing in this state--as clearly indicated on the website you reference. Humility is a virtue.

I'll look forward to hearing more from Rubin86. Safe journeys!

Mark

thank you
 

Thank you Rubin86 for the clear and concise explanation regarding State of Washington title transfer and how you managed it.

And Markharf, thanks for providing the accurate information regarding emissions testing of motorcycles - not required for State of Washington title transfer.

I have noted that the State of Washington does allow a vehicle title transfer to a non resident - via a special request.

FYI, this is not common among the other 49 States.

I maintain anyone considering transferring a title for a motorcycle registered in one of the United States should check the title transfer requirements for that particular State for themselves.

xfiltrate

Yes, absolutely. It's definitely unwise to rely on unsupported and often-ill-informed statements scattered around internet forums.

On the other hand, this is not true. Anyone interested will find upwards of a half-dozen other states which make this easy to do--including our most populous. Just do a simple search, here or elsewhere.

Mark

nice job confirming the details
 

Rubin86, great job getting this all figured out and doing the research while in a different country. It feels daunting to me trying to navigate websites to find out if an unfamiliar and complicated process will work.

On the forms you filled out and notarized in Chile, did you use a Punta Arenas address or one from the U.S. where your relatives live.

You had Washington state D.O.L. send new title and plates to your relatives. Do they live in Washington state? Were they sent there because WA state would not send directly to you in P.A. South America?

Was this transaction only possible due to the duty free zone status of Punta Arenas or could this transaction, with a WA state licensed bike, be done anywhere in Chile or South America?

Glad to hear this worked out so far.

Mark, i tried doing a google search to find out what states in the US, a non-resident could get a title transfer but I did not get any results. Can you tell me what you searched that brought up 6+ states similar to WA?

Thanks.
Tim

That small number of states might shrink even further if the question put is 'can someone not currently in that state and not a legal resident of that state get legal ownership of a vehicle not currently in that state and with expired or cancelled registration and owned by a person also not in that state and not legally resident in that state."

One or two left perhaps.

Add in "and not a US citizen" and it becomes even more problematic.

Tim, the biggest problem we face is that what might have worked for one person - and that can't always be assured just because you get across one border because some people come to grief years later - can never be guaranteed to work for the next person. Too many variables. Too many cases of friends in similar vehicles getting to a border the same day to have quite different experiences to think there are any consistent rules. In this case for instance, if it occurred in Argentina and some time in the future an alert customs official did some cross-referencing he would easily prove that the sale didn't take place in Washington at all but legally took place in Argentina and any drawing up of a poder was therefore done to cover up an illegal act. Next step is confiscation of the vehicle. That has happened.

Unless I have missed the border crossing, Rubin hasn't made good his escape quite yet, and even if he does, he will be hoping that the previous owners of his new vehicle didn't run afoul of officials in any other country because that also can and has caused problems for others.
Not saying that problems are insurmountable, but those intent on buying a vehicle under conditions they wouldn't entertain back home need to deal with their head rather than their heart.

I did a Google search as follows: site:horizons unlimited.com states. That was all. It took the standard quarter of a second, and the following thread was on the first page of results: http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...nals-can-58648.

Coincidentally, that very thread appears on my list of recently updated threads this evening, ten or twenty lines down from this one. Who'd've thunk it.

Just for fun I skimmed through. There were reports of successful purchases and registrations by foreign nationals in about 12 states. There were also several reports of states in which no success was had--including a few from the former list. The standard ones described as easy include, notably, California, Florida and Texas--the three most populous states of our 50. Others: Washington, Tennessee, Wyoming, New Mexico, Arizona, etc. Then I looked up populations, and you may imagine my surprise at finding that states in which this is possible contain almost half the population of the USA.

I get tired of countering the same old tired, unsubstantiated claims from (sometimes) the same people. What's our problem here? Why bother posting all that stuff?

My state, Washington, goes to a lot of trouble to make this possible for non-residents, including foreigners. It's a matter of pride. Other states with large non-legal immigrant populations do the same (c.f., Texas, California, Florida). Why do you suppose that is?

Safe journeys!

Mark

Tim. On the forms I filled out I used my family's address in New York. Plate and registration was also sent to them. Although as far as I understand from the DMV an address in Chile would be fine too. My contact there was willing to send plate and registration directly to Chile, but because I had to enclose paper stamps for postage it seemed like better option to have it sent within the US and forwarded to me by courier.
It is my understanding that it is only possible to do transfers of foreign vehicles in the Zona Franca, but please don't quote me on that. In regards to buying and selling foreign bikes in other countries in South America you will have to do some research yourself. I know that it is illegal in both Argentina and Colombia. Good luck, feel free to pm me if you have any questions!

Mark I salute you;)

So are we back to 5 or 6 certainties then,

By my rules of logic, a single failure in a particular state may/does mean that success is not guaranteed so that state should not appear in a list of certainties. Sometimes rules are tightened - or of course may be relaxed - so a report that is not current may give false hope to those coming along years later. Also these reports will always be individual-specific and rarely address any other permutation of circumstances.
The only reliable way to know if a particular state allows a particular procedure is to find where it is written into law and then get written confirmation that it will apply to your specific circumstances.

Like it or not the question posed is very relevant because it attempts to make the process universal by covering situations commonly encountered in the real world both sides of the border, so surely much more relevant than relying on old, incomplete reports of one person's success in very constrained circumstances.

Zona Franco and TVIPs Chile
 

Anyone considering importing a foreign registered vehicle into Chile via a Zona Franco for the purpose of selling the vehicle should read this article.

Zona Franca - Chile Wiki

Chile does not permit the import of foreign registered used vehicles - other than certain ambulances, fire trucks etc ....except via Temporary Vehicle Import Permits issued for 3 months (the time limits are subject to change) and it is illegal to sell (transfer title) any foreign registered vehicle entered into Chile on a TVIP in Chile. What can be more simple than this?

I too question why there is so much continued discussion on this thread regarding the buying or selling of foreign registered vehicles in Chile?

xfiltrate

The stories about the duty-free zones have been around for a long time albeit, slowly changing in the detail.
The renewed interest in buying and selling foreign cars to foreigners has perhaps surfaced due to recent changes in how to legally buy a Chilean vehicle in Chile although even despite the large amount on information on that part of the deal, there is almost no solid info on the other end of the transaction - being selling it at the end of the trip somewhere other than Chile. Pretty common for legitimate procedures to be broadened bit by bit to include illegitimate procedures.

trying to understand it all...just my opinion
 

The wiki article on Zona Franca in Punta Arenas is informative but seems to be targeted at transactions involving permanent residents and expats coming back to the area. It does not specifically address a foreign registered bike and transfer of ownership or sale of bike from the foreign owner to a new foreigner owner. I interpret the intent of these laws and regulations are to collect taxes on the Permanent vehicle import into Punta Arenas. I am also assuming here that a vehicle with Temporary Vehicle Import status is not of concern to the government until it overstays it’s time limit. Although the exchange of money for motorcycle happens in Punta Arenas, the change of ownership and title happens administratively back in Washington state at the motor vehicle department, in this example with Rubin. It appears that the legal administrative work done in Punta Arenas is that of changing the name on the temporary vehicle import permit (TVIP) with a local notary as the first step and finalizing this by having it confirmed by an Import office (aduana). It seems like the government is not really concerned about the owner in a TVIP situation. They are only concerned about the bike and that it leaves the country before the TVIP expires. I did not read anything in that article that regulates or prohibits changing of the name on a TVIP and in my opinion, that is the real question.

If my assumptions above are correct then you just need to make sure that the state in the U.S.A. where the bike is titled will do a title transfer through the mail. States mentioned where there has been success doing this are, Washington, Arizona, California, Texas, Florida and a few others but you need to do up-to-date research on your own to confirm the current rules. And the rules about transferring the name on a TVIP in Punta Arenas could change at any time also.

The used motorcycle you are purchasing has an unknown history by you and possibly a storied history by the governments of the countries it has come through. Your adventure may intensify with each new border crossing as the vehicle identification number is entered into the system.

For me personally, I’m not willing to take the risk in time and expense (if the bike gets confiscated due to it’s previous history) and (unknown physical/internal condition of the motorcycle) but for others, this risk/reward balance might make sense to them. Everyone needs to make their own decision based on their knowledge and comfort level with the seller and the bike.

I am happy for Rubin and applaud his efforts in making this work so far and I hope his travels north are uncomplicated. I’m sure he will let us know if he runs into problems related to this transaction.

And, Why the continued discussion? - Well thats easy, there are lots of people who would like to buy/sell their bike at the bottom of the world. It can be a win/win for those who can't afford or don't want to pay shipping back to their home country. And it's a great opportunity for those who have time to start a trip at this time of year in Tierra Del Fuego, to find an appropriate bike at a discount to head north on. Until there is a document out there that specifically addresses the concerns, rules, regulations, fees, pros and cons of doing this type of transaction, the questions and new posts and arguments and discussions will continue.

As always, others might have different experiences.

Buying an RV in the USA | Drive the Americas

I'll give them a link to here so markharf can sort it out for them

On a sidenote....
 

I am waiting for title and registration to be forwarded to me from the US by my uncle. Because i was not clear enough they got shipped by regular mail. I got tired of waiting and decided to cross border to Argentina with a (crappy) copy of old title in sellers name and a notarized bill of sale done in Punta Arenas. I have now been back and fourth across the Argentine/Chilean border three times.
I am not necicarlily recommending this but it sure as hell worked for me. Nececity is the mother of invention.

I didn't read all of Rubens "explanation", all I can say to whoever is thinking about doing this:

DON'T DO IT.
even if you manage to get the bike registered in your name in Punta Arenas.
There is NO WAY you travel out of the Zona Franca up north.
As I said before:
If you are not a resident of the Zona Franca for at least 5 years you can not use a Zona Franca vehicle in the rest of Chile.
Aduana will take it from you once you enter "non Zona Franca Chile".

Otherwise, what would be the point in having a Zona Franca if everybody from Santiago could go there and buy a half price car and use it back home all year???????

Groschi

How so sure?
 

You are outright wrong groshi. You can take chillean "zona franca" vehicle of of zona franca, but only for 90 days out of the year. A customs agent at the Zona Franca told me this himself. Regardless. Most foreigner who buy a bike there will be taking it out the country anyways, so this is of less importance. I find it interesting how some people are so sure of themselves here, although I have been given information straight from the source. I am in Punta Arenas!

Anyways. I am not asking anybody to take my advice, I am just dispensing the knowledge I have been given by the aduana office upon inquiring.
A friend of mine is about to sell his bike to another foreigner, they will proceed to try to change the title Into a Chilean one. I will ask them to post here after they are done with the process to tell how it went.

Again. If you actually know something, please share. If you are just speculating, at least state you are speculating. I was almost about to cancel my trip down here because almost everyone was saying it was impossible to reregister. I am happy I didn't, because I now have new Washington title and lisence plate in hand, in my name.

very good news
 

Rubin86 -

I have been looking for several days now on how to sell my Washington licensed KLR to a foreigner in Santiago, Chile. Your last post was very, very good news for me to read. Just to double check here, the previous owner of the Washington licensed bike (I assume the person is a US citizen?) simply went with you to a Chilean notary and had a bill of sale completed? what else was required from the seller? Did the seller need to get a RUT as well?

Casey

Good luck;)
 

Hi casey. I reccomend you read the part where i explain how to sell a bike in the zona franca. Note that it might be a different process(or not possible) since Santiago is not a tax free zone. I really don't know.
Previous owner was not Us citizen, but had bought and registered bike in the state of Washinton and driven it down. Yes you will need notarized bill of sale, no you do not need a RUT to sell a foreign bike, neither do you need one to buy a foreign bike in the Zona Franca.

Good luck. I'll be in Santiago in a few days, could definitely give you some advice! Do you maybe know of a good KLR mechanic there?

serious bummer
 

Hey Rubin86,

I may have got myself in a bind here, if I can't find a way to process the sale of this bike I will have to return a deposit to the Frenchman buyer (who is in Argentina) and figure out how to get rid of the bike down here...

I'm actually in Valparaiso and will be in Santiago this weekend. perhaps we can get a beer and share some tips. I'll PM you my contact info

All is well that ends well!
 

I wouldn't start worrying quite yet. I'm just don't wanna tell you all is good to go because I simply don't know. But I THINK you should be fine. The regregistratio. In Washington is the same, no problems. The only problem might occur when the buyer exits the country with new papers. Drop me s line, I'll be in Santiago this weekend and maybe we can meet up

Thanks Rubin. You mentioned in a previous post that the previous owner was not a US citizen, do you know how he managed to get the bike registered in washington without having a drivers license or home address?

I'll be in Santiago tomorrow, you want to get a beer?

..
 

You will need a US address to register a bike in Washington, but a foreign drivers license is fine. I know this because I don not have a US lisence. Would be cool to meet up, but I gave some stuff I need to sort out with the bike before I head north so I'll have to see how much time I have:)

Washington title change confirmation
 

I just got off the phone with the WA DOL and got it confirmed that I can change the title to the frenchman via mail, now the challenge will be the TVIP. I've read a few places that both the seller and owner need to go to the border and leave country under the seller's name and reenter under the buyer's name. Have you had any experience with this or heard anything from other travelers?

I just bought a motorcycle in Punta Arenas from another American. He had the original Alaskan title with him, while I am a Pennsylvania resident. We had to do the following steps:

1. Go to a notary (the one with all the plants on the first and second floor near the central square is the best one, as some others did not have the correct paperwork) and get a notarized bill of sale. This required the title, both of our passports, and his TIP. A few signatures, some thumbprints, and 5,000 CLP later, we were out the door.

2. Go to the aduana in the Zona Franca (it's actually ACROSS from the main shopping area, so to your right at the big roundabout by the port as you're leaving the city towards the airport) with the notarized bill of sale, TIP, title, and passports. I filled out the back of the title as the buyer and they canceled the seller's TIP and stamped his immigration papers so that he can leave the country and printed out a new TIP in my name. They also provided another document showing that I am indeed the owner of the motorcycle. I am now cleared to be in Chile for up to 90 days and enter other South American countries.

Note that I have NOT yet gotten a new, Pennsylvania title. This will not matter for S. America, but I obviously couldn't cross into the USA with the old plates and title. I wanted to get a PA title and plate before I flew down to meet the seller, but they required a rubbing of the VIN. I will fly back to PA from Lima in a couple months and take a rubbing at that point and get a new PA title and plate and fly back to continue my trip... so at that point, everything will be in my name and I can legally cross back into the US.

From what we were told at the special aduana, this is probably NOT something you can do outside of the Zona Franca. I'm also unsure of the process for non-US passports. Just like Rubin86, I'm not here to argue or debate about the legality of this process, specifically from the point of view of the American DMV. But we were told by the aduana officers that this is fine for South America for all border crossings, etc. Tomorrow I will cross the Argentinean border after purchasing insurance in Punta Arenas and I'll update you when I've changed countries.

Need on the ground advice....
 

Bravo Sojourning Mendicant

Make sure the vin rubbing can be legally done by you....
and an authorized Pennsylvania DOL "vin rubber" is not required....
We ran into this barrier in Bolivia and had to ride 300 K to find someone authorized to do a vin rubbing....

Were all or any of the following documents, in addition to the title, required to be presented by the seller to the notary prior to receiving notarized transfer of title document?

*Inscription - (ownership document, previously stated as provided)
*Permiso de circulation - (road tax)
*Certificado de emisiones contaminantes (emmisions certificate)
*Technica Class B - (roadworthy certificate)
*Certificado seguro obligatorio accidentes personales (third party insurance)

My PMs are backing up with requests for my opinion on this matter, please respond. thanks
xfiltrate

As long as I physically present a VIN rubbing to the PA DMV, it doesn't actually matter who did it originally. But this was the reason I couldn't get a title/plate before I left; they actually DO accept a digital photo of the VIN, but only by a US dealership or police officer, or a foreign police officer with the correct form. The PA DMV actually told me, "Oh yes, in Chile, the police offices should all have a VIN form for the PA DMV, so your friend can do it remotely that way." Yeah right.

All that we provided to the notary were the title, VIP, and both of our passports. I'm not sure what you mean by inscription.. is that the same thing as a title? We definitely had none of the rest of the mentioned documents. The seller did have to buy insurance for Argentina, but never had insurance (or needed to provide proof of insurance) for Chile. I would assume that the documents you mention are possibly/probably required for a Chilean-plated vehicle, but that's purely speculation.

Again, not guaranteeing that it will go so smoothly for everyone else, especially if you have non-US passports, I would assume.. but it was incredibly easy for both of us and the notaries and aduana officers were all extremely warm and helpful. The aduana officer had us sit behind him at the computer to double and triple check all the info for the new VIP and ensured us that we are both able to legally leave the country (the seller without a motorcycle, and me with the motorcycle). As noted before, one notary did not have the 'bill of sale' form and the local aduana by our hostel directed us to the aduana in the Zona Franca (and was kind enough to call ahead and give us the name of the person to talk to, so he knew our situation as soon as we arrived).. so the specific notary and aduana that I mentioned in Punta Arenas are definitely the ones to visit and the folks who have done this process before.

Vin Rubbing Explained
 

Sojourning Mendicant,

It is with great pleasure I report that... yes, you can legally rub your own vin in Pennsylvania, and even take
a photo, but please remember don't try rubbing your own vin in Bolivia.

Pennsylvania says:

"3. All vehicles previously titled in another state.
 A tracing is obtained by placing tracing paper against the VIN plate and applying pressure with a lead pencil, stroking left to right across the entire surface of the VIN plate so as to produce on the paper an image of all information which has been embossed on the plate. If you are unable to locate your vehicle’s VIN plate or you are unable to secure a legible tracing of the plate, contact a certified inspection mechanic or notary public employed by a motor vehicle dealer or issuing agent. These individuals are authorized to inspect and visually verify the VIN when a tracing of the plate is not possible. The certified inspection mechanic or authorized notary public is required to list their name, DIN or mechanic number and signature in Section A. (NOTE: A photograph of the vehicle’s VIN plate is acceptable if the photo is signed and dated by a certified inspection mechanic.) The certified inspection mechanic’s signature indicates that he/she visually inspected the VIN on the vehicle and that the VIN numbers match the proof of ownership. If the vehicle is physically located outside of Pennsylvania, the vehicle identification number must be visually verified by a police officer, a mechanic employed by a motor vehicle dealer or an Armed Forces installation provost marshal or motor transportation officer using Form MV-41, “Application for Correction of Vehicle Record or Verification of Vehicle Identification Number.” "

xfiltrate

TIP transfer question
 

Thanks for sharing, Sojourning Medicant. I spent a long time on the phone with the Washington State DOL today and confirmed that the title change can be completed via mail regardless of the fact that the buyer does not have a US drivers license. The DOL cannot provide state-registration for the bike without a driver's license, but that actually helps out in this situation. The bike title will be transfered without a need to pay WA licensing fees (typically 10-15% of the value of the bike). Given the buyer will not be riding in the US, the lack of registration will not be an issue in SA (similar your situation, it sounds like). We'll have the title changed via mail and the buyer will have the new title in hand when we actually exchange the bike. The question for me is how to get the TIP transfered to his name. We're in Santiago and going to Zona Franca is not an option. I've read a number of accounts of buyers and sellers riding together to a border, exiting one country under the sellers name, and entering the next country under the buyers name. I'd rather do this in an Aduana office without having to ride to a border. I wonder, can the TIP transfer only be done at the border or in Zona Franca, or can this be proccessed in any Aduana office?

Rubbing your own vin... CORRECTION
 

rosa del desierto, who occasionally reads my HUBB posts and less often listens to me when I am speaking, has advised me that it was not in Bolivia that it is illegal to rub your own vin, but in Colombia.

As posted elsewhere on the HUBB...She injured her foot, on a muddy mountain pass in southern Colombia, and, we had to exit Colombia without our motorcycles for her medical treatment that would obligate us to be out of Colombia beyond the time allowed on our TVIPs.

As part of the application process for an extension of our TVIPs, we had to find a certified vin rubber as we were not permitted to rub our own vins in Colombia. Vin rubbing - explained here by the Pennsylvania Department of Transportation where it is legal to rub your own..... "applying pressure with a lead pencil, stroking left to right across the entire surface of the VIN plate so as to produce on the paper an image of all information which has been embossed on the plate."
My only defense is that it is "Devils week" here in this beach town on the west coast of Mexico and it is all youth and beauty celebrating life and I have become distracted more than once.

The Sonora produced bacanora/aqua dente - better know as mescal that I have imbibed today might also have played a role in my confusing Bolivia with Colombia.

Yes, it is legal to rub your own vin in Pennsylvania and you might be able to legally rub your own vin in Bolivia, but rubbing your own vin in Colombia is definitely illegal. Thanks to rosa del desierto I have not only corrected my mistake, but as she has ordered have explained why I needed to be rubbing my own vin in Colombia. FYI

xfiltrate Eat , and Drink bacanora!

possible to change TVIP in Santiago, Valparaiso
 

Rubin86, Sojourning Medicant, and Xfiltrate ...

I just went to the Aduana office in Valparaiso and they confirmed that with the new US ownership documents the buyer and I can cancel the existing TVIP and create a new one in the buyer's name. Fernando is the guy who works at the office, he spoke just enough English to work through it with me. He said the buyer and I can do this either in the Valparaiso office in Plaza Sotomayor or in Santiago at the Aduana office near the airport.

I have now crossed the Chilean/Argentinean border several times with no issues at all. And note that I didn't even get a new title.. I have the seller's Alaskan title with both of our info written/signed on the back. As well as the notarized bill of sale with both of our thumbprints, etc. Haven't been asked at all about having the title in my own name.. they are only confused because the license plate number is NOT on the front of an Alaskan title. So far, aduana/border officials have been nothing but friendly.. not even inspected my luggage for food or other items, just wanted to know where I'm traveling, etc.!

So how would this be:

An european person buys a new bike in Colombia in his own name and rides it down south to Patagonia and then wants to sell it. And another european wants to buy it there. Theres no reason trying to get a chilean rego on it I suppose? Just a clean sale and transfer of ownership, will this be possible?

What steps to take? Go to a Notario and then Aduana or do it inbetween borders?

Snakeboy, if the transaction is (1) between non-residents of Chile, and (2) involves a foreign-plated bike, then the owner and the buyer will go to a Notaría. It is not necessary to go to Aduanas.

It is not necessary to register a foreign vehicle in the Chilean system and anyway it is usually (usually!) impossible to import and register a used foreign vehicle in Chile, except for legal residents of Zona Franca areas or returning Chilean nationals who have lived outside of Chile.

Note: A notaría is the office where the notario, who is a person, works; a notaría is essentially "owned" by the notario who has the licence to act in that capacity.

At the notaría there is usually a take-a-number device and then you wait for your number to be called. Owner and seller will request a compraventa for a foreign vehicle transfer. Both owner and seller present their passports and usually the ownership documents for the vehicle. The staff at notarías rarely speak languages other than Spanish. If you do not speak Spanish then you may wish to have someone help with this. Be extremely careful to be sure that the licence number and VIN for the vehicle are correctly recorded on the compraventa.

You will receive one original of the signed and "legalised" compraventa document. I strongly recommend that you pay for at least two more legalised copies of that compraventa and keep them in separate, safe places. In Chile, a "copia simple" which is a photocopy that is not certified or "legalizado" has very little value.

It has been my experience with foreign registered/ foreign-plate vehicles that even when the foreign registration is expired, this is usually of no consequence to Chilean authorities. I have seen bikes that are years out of registration that circulate freely with no problems.

Remember that a foreign vehicle is always required to have a valid temporary-import TITV (Título de Importación Temporal de Vehículos). A vehicle without a valid TITV can be seized and the operator can be jailed and/or fined.

Thanks for your comprahensive explanation Finnskii, great stuff!

So will this Compraventa document be recognised at all borders in SA?
And how would it be done to change the name on the TITV?

One question more :)
 

Hi Snakeboy

I brought a Polish registered bike in Ecuador using the same process, a notary it cost a total of 100usd. I left Ecuador and entered Peru no problems i now plan on riding through Bolivia and selling the motorbike in Argentina to another traveller as my names not on the original documents could this be problem or is it just the same procedure using a notary.

Many Thanks

Well the question is to do this in Punta Arenas - Chile, not Equador, Mongolia or Rwanda....

Well - the european seller of the bike has now been to different Notarias i Punta Arenas but none of them would make such a document as you described here. The Notarias sent him to Aduana. And Aduana Punta Arenas has one legal solution for such a transaction wether the buyer is chileno or foreign:

Both seller and buyer would have to go to Aduana. Then a request about the bike have to be sent to Interpol Francia. This will cost 20 000 CHP and an answer would come in 7-30 days. When the request comes back the seller will get chilean papers and chilean regoplates on it and this costs another 80 000 CHP.

And thats the only way to do such an transaction LEGAL in Punta Arenas according to Aduana Punta Arenas.

I am not an expert on laws and enforcing of laws in Chile - but I found this quite strange to put it mildly...

Any thought around this?

Hi all. With apologies for reviving an old thread, and after a search of the site and elsewhere for more recent news, I would be grateful for any enlightenment:

A friend is riding their UK registered moto to Chile now. I want to buy it from them and ride it North.

The transfer of UK registration (title in US parlance) is straightforward.

However buyer and seller will not be in Chile simultaneously (seller leaves in March and I arrive in October).

My understanding is that buyer and seller are required jointly to go to Aduana and make the transfer of the TIP.

Can any of the wise travellers with direct experience of this suggest a work around please?

Thanks in advance

Simon