Careful in Peru!
 

It might be nothing new for most of you but I want to stress again that the traffic in Peru is chaotic (like in many other countries) but in a dangerous way. They are more aggressive, less caring for anyone or anything. In the corners, many (especially bus drivers!!) seem to think they own the whole road. In general they like to use both lanes. I have the feeling that they pull to the left when they notice that you want to pass.
I have never used the horn that often, especially on narrow dirt roads! Could safe lifes!
Safe rides everyone!

A Peruvian friend described his countrymen as "P!ss poor driving w@nkers".:clap:

I thought they were no worse than, for example, New Yorkers, all Africans ("Life is cheap"), all Indians ("There's only 1 road rule: Might is right") or the locals of Manningham, (in Bradford, West Yorkshire, England... many of whom wear burkhas..., where I have the misfortune of driving through every day Monday to Friday).

IMHO, lots of places in world have sh!te driving, not just Peru.

doh

Sure, there are bad drivers everywhere! But there is a difference between forgetting the turning signal or to check if the road is clear and to not knowing that this would be an option, too.
Then, they do not even care if you meet them on the opposite lane, even though they see you coming, they START to pass a long truck or whatever, even though they are in a slow and long vehicle themselves! Worst of all, a semi-truck starting to pass another in front of a 90 degree bend without the slightest clue if it is clear or not! In these moments I want a big gun...
Then there are trucks passing trucks who are passing a truck, nice!
I do not want to compare with others or put Peruvians in a bad light, I just want to make people more aware and maybe help to get through without damage to life and material.

Thanks for the heads up.

I thought Peruvian drivers noticeably worse than in neighboring countries. On the other hand, I didn't ride any differently, and I don't think I was actually in more danger. Like lots of places, trucks and buses claim their right to whatever bit of roadway they please, and smaller vehicles must make way or suffer the consequences.

This is taken for granted--hence the buses which pull out to pass knowing full well that you're already occupying the space they're moving into, and the trucks which pass on blind corners. They know you'll do whatever it takes to get out of their way, and you'd better know it too if you plan to return home in one piece. Watch the local drivers of small cars and little wee motorbikes: they don't get offended, they just pay attention and get out of the way of anything bigger. If possessed of some sort of odd belief about a different set of rules, best stay clear. But anyone who's made it as far as Peru shouldn't have to make much of an adjustment.

Like others here, I tend to get assertive about claiming my own space--it's useful to let the other drivers know that you're not behaving in the manner they're used to. Even those oncoming trucks and buses don't actually WANT to hurt you, despite any observable evidence to the contrary. If they see you weaving back and forth down the center line toward them with your headlight blazing, they'll give you more room and respect than they would if you cower timidly along the highway verge with the other two wheeled traffic. Just be prepared to take evasive action when you meet the ones who really ARE trying to kill you.

Mark

Peru is no worse than many others, each country has its "dance" and you are just part of it. The fact you can become a curiosity only adds their distractions.

The horn is over rated, having ridden from New Orleans without one I was well versed in sounding my position when needed (I can be loud), or my wife would "honk" from behind on my behalf.

Peru was just good practice for Bolivia, where a horn is used to signify right of way at junctions (he who beeps 1st , a bit like a USA 4 way stop but with sound). My verbal shouts of BEEEEEPPPPP caused much amusement.

Good to know the 'honk' is needed and useful in South America, as I feel I mastered the art of honking while overlanding in India :) ... Perhaps the best thing about learning to ride in India was that everywhere else seems like Switzerland by comparison.

Weaving between those TATA trucks and having them hurtling towards you at 80mph like Elephants fired out of a giant canon directly in your lane while they overtake a chain of slow moving army trucks really is a unique feeling.


Good advice, 1+

all good but it does not help to be assertive if you come around a corner and a bus is stearing right towards you. You have less than a second to chose between a frontal crash and the ditch. What if there is no ditch but a free fall of maybe hundreds of meters!
My lesson is: NO music while riding in these conditions, stay on the right side before corners, be even more alert and use the horn if you cannot see.
Other than that it makes perfect sense to show them that you are there and tend to use your lane yourself.

As the driver of a BigRig, one dangerous mistake from some bikers is thinking they can round a corner with their wheels on their side of the centre line and their head two feet on my side of the line.

Sure! But this another thing that I am not talking about.

That is normal in Colombia, on *every* bend. But whenever the truck had the name "Dodge" emblazoned across the grill I always giggled :-)

Please recap what you are talking about and write a draft of a reply that you would like to receive. That way I can copy and paste it into my reply and this will hopefully satisfy you.

Much of the world drives like tossers. If you don't like it, don't ride/drive there (probably something else you're not talking about...)

That is a bit harsh Chris.

It is not that he does not like it here he just not like being left with a big repair bill from a "professional driver", I would feel the same.

Tobius put a polite thread after suffering reasonably sever damage to his bike bike and almost person from an arsehole driver who then denied EVERYTHING.

I have seen the damage personally and tried to help get it sorted.

Personally I would not have sugar coated it and called the bus driver what he really deserved and given the chance a right hand kiwi cuddle.

Suggest YOU reword YOUR post NOT knowing the entire background to a friendly warning for other riders post.

Tobius, post up the bus company etc and let the news out, no sugar coatings.

And To Back This Up First Hand
 

A youtube vid of a guy who should NOT be driving, see the space on the left hand side, you can fit a car through there no worries, this guy should be shot!!

http://youtu.be/1Y4Eh6Xj-lw

Sure, it's a bit harsh. Thanks for shedding light on the background.

You're the first person on this thread that explains there was some sort of collision between the OP and a bus. So far the OP has told us Peruvian drivers drive by the rule of "Might is Right" = On a m/c you're at the bottom of the food chain. Some people knew this already, for others it's new news. Fine.

This is a very useful thread to be reminded that all 4 wheeled road users all over the world, particularly Peruvian bus drivers, are potential killers and that we should adjust our riding accordingly.

Then, every contribution from another poster leads to the reply "Sure, but..." by the OP. What are wrong with these contribution? They're on topic and relevant to the topic of riding/driving in Peru and South America/the world in general, as well as offering insight as to what it's like to drive 4 wheels and have erratic ("assertive"?) 2-wheelers coming towards them. I struggled to understand the extra points the OP was trying to make in his responses to the replies. Hence the harshness.

I wish the OP all the very best with fixing his bike and himself after his collision.

The Peruvian experience will allow the OP to be well prepared for riding anywhere on the Indian Subcontinent and Africa (as well as NYNY and Manningham, West Yorkshire :blushing: doh)

can you be so kind and tell me where I posted a question here so that I can tell you what to answer?If you do not like my well-meant information I will not change it for you only to sound like a cool rough adventurer. I would like to change many things in the world indeed and I am very well aware of the danger we live with. That you even have to be careful what to say to the ones sitting in the same boat, scares me more than the Peruvian drivers. (but this is certainly nothing you wanted to hear either)
PS where the f...is Gods own country?!

I always tell my South American friends that Lima had the worst driving I've ever seen. Brazilian folks are always kind of offended.

India in 2004 Stories

Scroll down to the bit about "Srinagar deserves not to be visited"

County, not country

https://www.google.co.uk/#q=god%27s+own+county

I say harsh cos he was being polite which was nice, I wouldn't have been quite so tactful.

Thanks for you wishes to his getting fixed, we are after all on the same team.

we wrote at the same time...
which points did I make that you do not understand? where I come from, we ask in that case and do not go to attack.
when I answered with sure I wanted to confirm that problem that I am very well aware of. My post is not a general " how to ride a motorcycle safely" info but an attempt to help every traveller to come home in one piece and without wasting time in police stations, with doctors or bike shops...
I wish I had a copy of saturdays local paper with two reports about accidents we talk about,where 3 peruvians lost their lifes ( 2 of them cops on mc).they obviously have not learned what the vibes are like here .
Thanks for the wishes, if they are not ironic.

Mate, can I suggest you go for a long walk to get some fresh air: NO, the wishes were NOT ironic.

that is what I did...
ok then, thanks for the update on where God is to be found : )

If you ever want to fly somewhere, rather than ride a bike or take a bus, can I suggest trying this airline: Yorkshire Airlines - YouTube :helpsmilie:

.... no I am here bro :thumbup1:

Peru Drivers
 

Yeah I found drivers in Peru can be pretty aggressive,

I had a good friend who had a major accident and knew of another who sadly lost his life due to aggressive truck drivers in Peru.

Through Latin America (minus the east coast of South America)
I put my top 3 most dangerous drivers as #1 Honduras #2 Peru #3 Colombia

Due to the aggressive selfish drivers who would drive like total maniacs to force you off the road, either oncoming towards you on or from behind. In Peru I had drivers (particularly truck drivers) force me off the road daily, not just on corners but on open straight roads!

I found flicking my high beam headlight frantically and waving my left arm wildly , sometimes made them back off - as they saw maybe the bike was moving faster than they thought

Anyways, take care riders going through Peru

Thanks alot for the info Norschweger. We are heading up to Peru in about 2 months. Any info about Paraguay and Bolivia traffic ?
We are in Argentina at the moment, and the traffic is ok.

Now.... I am scared :rolleyes2:

Lima
 

I love downtown Lima, Peru but as one travels from downtown to the outskirts, there are hundreds of vans or mini buses, with side doors open, literally scooping up passengers along appointed routes - the scooping process sometimes includes dramatic lane changes. This not so unique form of private transport, poses little problem, when the vans and mini buses troll curb side, but always be prepared for unannounced lane changes in the event you have said described vehicle to the lee of you and potential "scoopees" starbord.

My best advice is to remain calm, ride defensively, and integrate yourself into the flow as best you can. And, at the risk of being censored for being boring, the best damage control, aside from defensive riding and avoiding Lima's peak traffic hours, is to have legal documents for yourself and your motorcycle and buy motorcycle and medical insurance from reputable insurance agencies.

If you do have an accident - and you are prepared with proper documents and insurances, it will only represent a delay, and hopefully, not a trip stopper. No need to be afraid, by the time you arrive Lima, you will be an experienced over lander.

Eat, Drink and Be Careful

xfiltrate

Now that is bollox.... everyone knows Derbyshire is much better :innocent:

All I can say is that if you think drivers in Peru, or anywhere else in the world are bad, just wait until you get to China!:scooter:

We have been to China a few times to visit family and friends, seriously the drivers in Peru are as bad or worst and aggressively worse for pushing you out and not giving a shit.

I must admit Peruvian driving is the worst in South America in my opinion, had several near death experiences there and yes never used my horn as much! :(

Our Crash Yesterday
 

Head on into another moto here in Peru.

Dude was totally in our lane around a blind corner just as well we were not a bus or truck he would be dead.

http://i1263.photobucket.com/albums/...ul/file-41.jpg

http://i1263.photobucket.com/albums/...ul/file-42.jpg

...does make you wonder :nono:

hope your alright
 

Glad you made out of that! I have a photo of ambulance driving in the oncoming lane, I'll try and post? I wish I had one a police car I've been run off the road by them, so if they do it everyone will. I had to get off the road and stop for a truck today and looked over and he was laughing. What a jerkwad! These drivers/riders are dumb! Just f*#king DUMB!!!
In still in Peru myself and will be glad to be in Chile soon where they drive more civil!

Show me a country where an ambulance does not drive in the other lane ? Or police car ? Or fire engine?

You are in their country, study the way they drive and drive to their roads. Peru does *not* have the worst drivers. It is all relative. I've been reversed into in the USA and knocked off, does that make them the worst drivers ?

Grow up, grow some balls and stop whining.

Looking at the pics, was it a fairly narrow road with a drop on the other side ? If so, then he was safest on the mountain side. Vehicles tend to hug that so that they are not forced off the edge.

Looks like every one was ok though. Did you swap insurance ? :-)

What the f...! This is so mal-positioned! especially considering that the op (me) and fellow riders TMK share their bad experience in order to help others! Maybe you should think again and grow up!

...
 

...

You are welcome! Bolivia next..

Lima was the wildest drive for us yet. I was glad we were in a truck, no one tried to push us out of the way, but we saw it happen - a lot. My hat is off to you bikers, not an easy ride.

Ecuador and Colombia are safe and polite in comparison.

Merv.

Yes, Peru was more awkward than Colombia and Ecuador, but I still can't remember anything so bad that it hadn't happened just as often in other places. Maybe there are a limited number of true psychopaths driving trucks and buses, and I just happened not to run into any?

I'd heard Lima was going to be intolerable, and had no desire to actually stop there anyway, so with vast trepidation I made plans to spend a half-day riding right through from north to south. An hour later I was out the other side and back on the desert, feeling somewhat hyper-alert but lacking the heart-pounding and gut-wrenching I've felt elsewhere.

If I measured national driving habits by whether people came around blind corners in my lane or tried to force me into the ditches, I'd be pretty glum about the workings of the world, and I'd definitely not have enjoyed coastal Italy or the rides through the Moroccan Atlas. And then there's my own hometown….

Mark

This thread is not about helping others, it is a general moan and whine session. I am trying to inject some realism into things.

If you bother to see/note the comment I have responded to you will see it in context. I see nothing wrong in emergency vehicles driving on the wrong side of the road, it happens in ALL countries.

We have all had scares and issues, some countries are seen as worse than others, but that is due to personal experience and should not be generalised.

I have been reversed into and knocked off in the USA, does that make it the most dangerous country ?

I don't agree this thread is here to help people, it is ore about scaring them and making them feel uneasy.

No, it does not make it OK. I am just pointing out an unwritten rule that people should be aware of, and utilise them selves.

Oh, and you need to calm down with the locals, smile and carry on.

Heya Bruce, think you might be a little harsh there.

Yes emergency vehicles drive in the other lane but usually more in an emergency rather than just because at least that is my take.

Insurances .. you shitting me he couldn't even spell it, we have said first things first take a photo to show position just in case but he seemed to know he was in the wrong and wanted out of there, had damage been worse I would have locked his bike on the spot for the Police but not worth the shit and drama for the scuffs we got.

The road was actually two lane and although our side was rock the other side actually had a reasonable run out, there was no crash and die over a cliff stuff here which makes you wonder even more why he was trying to commit suicide on our side ???? .. and yes the other guy was his passenger.

So just yesterday a truck came around an open view corner saw us and swerved at us and back and laughed sending us off our line and wobbling .. .now why the fnck would he do that :nono: :nono:

We have a tin with stones in for dogs, yesterday one stone was used on a car that saw us, flashed his lights then pulled out head on onto us, there was no one else behind for miles ... why couldn't he wait 3 -4 more seconds but he insisted on running us off the road.

He will be looking for a new headlight now.

Tin reloaded!!!! :thumbup1:

Damn. Are you planning to survive your trip, or die before ever seeing home again? In local terms, flashing his lights before you flashed yours means he's got the right of way. Doesn't matter how weird, nonsensical or downright evil you think this is. You don't make the rules.

More to the point, sooner or later you're going to toss a stone at the wrong local, and things are not going to go well for you (or Ellen). Setting aside the question of right vs. wrong (yeah, of course he's a jackass), it's really a matter of survival--and I mean yours, not his. If you are routinely getting run off the road as it appears--in Peru or elsewhere--you need to decide whether you'd rather expend your energy feeling righteously indignant while continuing to do what you've been doing, or whether you'd rather re-dedicate yourself to staying alive. It's really your choice.

All IMHO, as usual. But there's another aspect to this: that guy whose headlight you potted: what do you suppose he's going to do next time he sees an overloaded tourist on a giant, lumbering bike? You think he's going to meekly pull over to his side of the road, cowering? Uh huh. He (or the next, or the next) is going to aim right for that bike, no messing around about it. And who do you think is going to pay the price? What you ought to be thinking right now is that you really don't want to encounter any truck drivers who just passed a stone-throwing tourist on an overland bike.

Mark

Based on all the bad luck I've had in Peru with my motorcycle repairs, I'll be the guy coming along next......

Yeah..

We have been hit, steered off the road deliberately and laughed at and then the car ... stress levels exceeded safe levels, he wore it.

Yeah they make they rules .... I call BS cos when my bike is laying on top of another cos the ****wit can't stay on his side on a BLIND corner and me asking he if he was ok (maybe I should have smacked him?) and me not knowing what damage we may have suffered.

Easier to write from your armchair at home Mark with your beer from the safety of you own fridge as you have said before than sitting on the road after rolling off your moto into the dirt due to someone else.

What will the car driver do next time, **** knows ... probably the same uneducated shit but he may also think "well last time it cost me a headlight"

I will survive my way which is treating everyone here like they wonna run us over which is a shameful way to have to travel and try and enjoy.

I have to say I love the Peruvian people until they get a steering wheel in front then all logic is transferred to their arse and that takes a real shine off the place.

Been there enough, including right where you're at now and all the places you're riding. Been run off my line quite a bit, and off the road a few times as well. So what's your point? That I don't know, but you do? That's just silly. Best save it for the Lonely Planet forums.

My point is that at the rate you're going you might not make it home. Riding two up, you're also responsible for another life. You get to alter the probabilities….or not, as you choose. Getting pissed off at what people keep doing to you won't keep either of you safe, if that's a goal. Neither will tossing rocks at people who, from their perspective, are just doing what they normally do. They're not thinking "Oh my, I guess I'd better give that rider more room." They're thinking "I'm going to get even with this one for what the last one did to me."

Mark

My point is my point, your can say as you wish no problem there.

But what you are missing is being there or in this case here, 35 - 40 degrees, tired, and dealing with one after another after hitting another moto head on, if I was pissed that moto rider would had been thrown for a sixer.

I don't care what they think or say and you have no idea either what they think which could be either way.

I care about me, Maya and Ellen and if that means other methods so be it, the guy in the car simply would not do it if we were a truck end of story so driving like an arsehole gets the same respect from me and leaving us nowhere to go but gravel they better be prepared too.

" They're thinking "I'm going to get even with this one for what the last one did to me."

..... maybe this is my logic so I guess we are on an even playing field with the locals, thump or be thumped, I have found now riding in the left hand wheel track of the right hand lane (at least when we pan amed it) and owning our space helps a lot but there are still a few per example who are still superhuman ....nuh.

I will continue riding defensively which is why we are still alive and well as I always do and if a stone accidentally gets flicked up off our bike at the appropriate moment ....:thumbup1:

Wishing safe journeys for you both. I'll buy the first round somewhere down the road.

Mark

A rock could be considered mild. I meet a rider last month from the Netherlands that got cut off in heavy traffic while riding though Central America then reached over to tap the guys window to let him know his displeasure. Unexpectly, the entire window shattered leaving the driver shocked! Great story

I'm not weighing in on throwing rocks vs. not throwing rocks either way and I personally have been upset enough a few times to point my middle finger after being a victim of South American drivers. But if your driving through Texas and throw a rock at someone, your probably going to die from the
gunfire that's coming back your way.

Are you coming back down Mark?, when and where if so?

I haven't dropped any rock priors but after the head on and the other BS we encountered ... yeah.

Love the story of the window, I did thump a mirror which just clicked back to its flat position after a guy deliberately knocked us on the case tooting his horn etc at red lights (nowhere to go and on a red :thumbdown:) and I pointed at him holding a glare .... the look on his face was outstanding.

From there on he stayed back a good couple of meters all the way, sometimes you have to let them know it is not cool to be pushed and knocked.

yes, I was kidding about the insurance, that thing that is needed in Peru but next to impossible to get ;-)

And I suppose I was a bit harsh, bit I hate it when people moan blindly on and expect every one to agree with them (ala Facebook with its "likes" etc). I prefer to get on with stuff and laugh about it later.

Maybe my wife and I had different experiences to others, but the traffic you describe sounds more like Colombia to me. Traffic is traffic in any country, and they are all out to get you any way :-)

The truck drivers behaviour sounds strange, but maybe he really thinks that he was playing a game ? Or, maybe some bikers have pissed him off at some time and he now treats them all the same ?

And the car, he did flash his lights to warn you :-)

Heya Bruce, Colombia was a walk in the park and pleasant, here is a whole different ball game.

The incidents of accidents etc is way more for all bikers than we have experienced and on the 71000 km on this trip thus far these are the worst x 10

Yes drivers all over the world need moto awareness education but it is way worse here than anywhere else (including China) that we have experienced (again what we have experienced).

Re the flashed lights, the car did flash, but many many others flash then pull out once we have gone passed, no prob there.

If he had waited a 2 -3 seconds at the most he would have had the entire road behind us in our mirrors totally empty and too himself thus no need to railroad us off into the sand.

Yeah the trucky was unexpected and he thought it was fun but he is playing with our lives which I don't see the funny side of, I have my HT license and have driven many different big units and well understand what truckies need to do, we have given way plenty of times when we have come around the corner to find two coming head on and to be fair the trucky started his maneuver before we were their, again no prob there.

The unfortunate part is we have seen first hand carnage (note Tobius) and us with the moto head on plus many more needless events, just too many to make civilized sense at least to me

Interesting, that YOU know what MY intentions were with this thread.Nuff said
about this!
Safe travels to everyone. I do NOT want to scare anyone. It is upon you if you take my advise or refuse it. It is also more dangerous to jump off a cliff if there is no water underneath than if there is plenty of it, but still it can be very dangerous. If you do not know how deep the water is, it might be nice if someone else tells you...