Chile border crossing
 

My friend is headed down to Chile from Alberta Canada. When his trip is complete he will leave the bike in Punta Arenas, Chile. He will then fly back to Alberta and sell me the bike. I am then planning to fly down to Punta Arenas with the change in title under my name and start to make my way back to Canada. I am wondering whether or not anyone knows if I will have trouble crossing the border from Chile due to the title and licence plate change (Alberta licence plates are non-transferable). Unfortunately, due to work commitments we cannot meet down in Chile to do the exchange in person. Should my friend visit a registries/notary office in Chile prior to returning to Alberta and make some sort of an official declaration?

Any advice would be appreciated.

Chile border
 

What kind of exchange could you do even if you were both in Chile?
And what kind of notary statement would be of any value?


I wish i could give you definitive info about what you need to do, but i cant.

But i will tell you a story to give you an idea of how things work down here.

A few months ago i was riding from Santiago to Argentina via Libertadores pass.
At the top, where the border control is, i wasnt paying attention and stayed on the truckers road and so missed the border crossing, as they do their paperwork elsewhere. The signage is very easy to miss and the usual border control guy must have been taking a pee. I was 65 km into Argentina when i became totally aware of my mistake. I turned around but this time was directed into the border control area by an officer.

But my papers were all wrong as they showed i was still in Chile but i was coming in from the Arg side. What to do? Well, i just rode past the cars in the line, pretended i owned the place, and rode through and out the other side without stopping. No one made a move. They noticed me but didnt care. I was a little worried they might shoot me.

I rode back a ways into Chile and waited 10 minutes to go back and cross through properly this time.

No one mentioned what had happened, not sure if they had really noticed, or cared.

This has no bearing on your case, just trying to say sometimes you dont want to overthink these things.

One thing I would check is whether your friend would be allowed to leave Chile without a bike, having entered it with a bike. If it's a normal part of Chile, he won't be able to (Chile Aduana were very clear they would not let me do so) - to do so he needs to transfer the TVIP to someone for the duration he's out of Chile.

Now, Punta Arenas is a Free Trade Zone, and so the above may not apply. However, I'd double check it - try ringing the Punta Arenas aduana office.

If it's a problem, a possible solution is to park the bike in Argentina - there's no such issue there.

The rest I can't comment on.

What you want to do is theoretically legal. Punta Arenas is a Chilean free trade zone and as such is one of the places where a North American can sell a bike. To be sure one of you should visit a Chilean Counsel before you go through with it.

Free trade Zones info
 

I need some enlightenment here. After a review of regulations governing free trades zones (Chile), I was unable to find documentation authorizing/ the sale of a foreign registered vehicle/motorcycle that was entered into Chile on a Temporary Vehicle Import Permit in a free trade zone.

Info in English here:

ZonAustral: FAQ

And, what does the nationality of the buyer or seller have to do with the transfer of title? I don't get it??? It seems to me where the bike is registered in more important than the nationality of the owner.

If anyone does contact aduana or Counsel of Chile - please post clarification here, meanwhile I would not bet on the transfer of title for a TVIP imported foreign registered motorcycle being legal in a "free trade zone." But, I welcome any documentation to the contrary.

thanks

xfiltrate

A friend of mine did the following to sell his UK registered bike to a Dutchman in Chile:

- Sell the bike and complete the re-registration in UK, so the new owner has the correct paperwork for the bike with his name on it.

- Meet in Chile, and ride the bike together to the border.

- Cross the border with the original owner as the rider, handing in the TIP and thus legally leaving Chile. (Aduana don't usually want to see the Vehicle Doc when leaving).

- Switch drivers, drive into Arg and then return to Chile - with the new owner receiving the TIP.

BUT.... As s445203 correctly stated, Chile won't let you leave without your bike - you must sign the bike over to someone else remaining in Chile before you leave.

So.....

Perhaps your friend can sign the bike over to a friendly bike dealer, who then signs it back to you as the new owner. Just a guess - you (or your friend) need to check with Aduana. (I lost my TIP in Chile and visited the Aduana in Osorno, who were super helpful.)

Or, perhaps your mate can sell the bike (Gringos can sell their bikes in the Zona Francas of Chile) and then you buy it back.

Might be worth emailing Alejandro Lago, who has a garage in Punta A and supports Motoadventura on their South America tours. He is a good bloke, has his own garage and speaks good English:

Alejandro Lago
Street Ona 0471
Punta Arenas
mobile +56-96401233
phone +56-61212737
email: alelago@123.cl

My last bright idea is to email Sandra at Dakar Motos in Buenos Aires and ask her if she knows a solution from within Arg, leaving your bike in Ushuaia. I am 99% sure that your mate can depart Arg without his bike, so there may be an option there. In fact, it may be as simple as doing that and then you simply arrive with the new docs and ride out of Arg and into Chile. Like I said, more often than not, the out-going Aduana just take you TIP when you leave the country without looking at it or your passport.

Good luck!!

Questions
 

If we could have accurate answers to couple of questions, this thread may be even more helpful.

Question #6 I have my doubts that "Gringos can sell their bikes in the Zona Francas of Chile" I have found no confirmation/anything to support this. Could you please post documentation. Remember we are taking about a foreign registered bike that entered Chile on a TIP - and then entered the Zona Franca. Documentation would be very helpful here. I found none.

Xfiltrate eat, drink and be careful

Well, I'll pitch in on the bits that I know and keep shtum about the bits that I don't.

No. To transfer bike ownership in the UK all you do is post a form to the UK registration body saying the ownership has changed. They mail the new ownership form to the address you specify in the UK. Nothing happens to the bike plates.

Must the bike be insured in the U K before registration?
No. In fact you cannot insure a bike in the UK unless it is registered in your name. So UK insurance (which I can't see how is relevant to this) must happen after registration.

Is there any inspection or verification of vin # etc? Plate #'s are checked at borders...

Nope.

No, it does not. The only time you need to be a little careful is at border crossings where both Chile and Argentina aduana are in the same office other (e.g. the one on the road from Punta Arenas to Rio Gallegos). But even there I think the "switch owners between borders" trick is legal, just needs a bit of balls.

I'd suggest the old owner makes a colour photocopy of the ownership paperwork before sending it in. This allows him to ride semi-legally while the paperwork is running through. The new owner purchases legal insurance just like anywhere with his new ownership form.

He means transfer the Chilean TIP to someone else while you're out of Chile. To do this you find a friendly Chilean, who is friendly enough to go with you to Aduana and have his passport stamped with your vehicle details and gets a TIP issued in his name and logged in the Aduana computer. I personally struggle to see this part as the friendly Chilean will be personally liable if the bike overstays the TIP, so he needs to be real friendly. And I also don't think this gets you out of having to personally be there when you do the whole deal with the new owner.

So I know that you can transfer a Chilean TIP to someone local - that's how Aduana told me to get around problem of leaving bike in Chile. However, I'm pretty sure you'll struggle to get the bike released to the new owner this way, although I have not asked.

But I have heard of several people using the "switch owners between borders" trick and it seems to work provided both the owners are there in person.

Yeah - there are countless fairy tale stories about the Chilean Free Trade Zones on HUBB. I spent a bit of time trying (and failing) to dispose of my ride in the North Chilean FTZ. My understanding of the law is as follows. First, what is Chilean legal position in normal part of Chile. My understanding is that Chilean CUSTOMS law:
1. Prohibits the importation of second hand vehicles, which means the only way for a second hand bike to be legally in Chile is on a temporary import permit (i.e. not imported).
2. Prohibits the sale of a vehicle which is not legal in Chile between two individuals

What changes inside the Free Trade Zone? Well, basically, I think customs law largely does not apply INSIDE the free trade zone, however, it still applies when you try to enter Chile. i.e. as far as customs law is concerned, there is no difference between the Free Trade Zone and the no-man's land between the borders of two countries.

So yes, theoretically, a foreigner can sell his bike to another foreigner inside the FTZ legally, but I honestly can't see why you'd bother to dig out a Chilean lawyer to help you with this when you can do it easier via other channels.

And people get confused by this bit - I think it's legal for a foreigner to sell his bike to a Chilean inside the FTZ given the above. HOWEVER, it is not then legal for the Chilean to bring the bike into Chile proper unless he's doing so with a TIP, which is not that much use to a local.

The only bit which makes me doubt this is the huge number of imported second hand cars I saw inside the Iquique FTZ - perhaps there is a grey way for them to be imported into Chile, or else they're there for parts which seems a bit strange.


Hope this helps....

And on the last bit of El Forko:

You can definitely leave bike in Argentina, exit without it and then re-enter without any probs - I've done it in early 2013. I am 99% sure that you cannot transfer ownership this way - the Argentina customs computer has the bike logged against your passport. When you present the bike at the border with a different passport (when the new owner tries to exit AR), you will have problems for sure. I honestly can't see much other way of doing it apart from switch between borders with both owners present.

I agree....
 

Thanks for the clarification from Sandra. I agree.

And, I found an interesting conversation going on in the North America region

Thread named: Storing and using a UK registered bike in America for 2+ years


http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...red-bike-67906

Here one might find a few very interesting regulations regarding not only North America, but the Americas in general - including South America, and UK registered bikes and riding permits for U K riders....

xfiltrate

While Sandra is indeed wonderful, it is not her writing this :oops2: :D

Thanks
 

Thank you s445203 for answering my open questions. I am sure it will provide good guidance for those considering transfer of title of a foreign registered bike in Chile.

I am hopeful more posts will be as well researched as yours.

Yep, it was your time and energy and I thank you

xfiltrate

Hi, I would like to to thank for all the information and thoughts.

My friend left the bike in Punta Arenas and left Chile. On the TIP is only date of entry, and information about the bike. Brand, mode, VIN number and license plate. There is no mention of his name. He did not have anything about arriving into the country on motorcycle in his passport so he could leave without a glitch.
My plan is to go in Punta Arenas to the regional custom office, where I will explain my situation and ask them to change the TIP to my name and my new license plate. I will back up my request with my new (Alberta) bike title and bill of sale which would both be translated by certified translator and notarized.
All these document are already done and in my pocket.
I believe in "normal" common sense and I would be able to do it this way.
My plan is to ride to Ushuaia but I do not know which is the nicest way.Which border crossing has a big space between the Chilean and Argentinian offices ? Do Chilean Customs have all border crossings computer interconnected ? I am just asking if I would have to do it some "other" way.

What do you guys thing ????

I will arrive in Punta Arenas on Sept. 12 and and I will start "the process" right away. I will let you know how it went.

Just got back on line after a bit of time on the road. Thank goodness for s445203 for helping me out after such a slack post!!! It's not always possible to do lots of detailed research when you are on the road - but thought a
few ideas might help.

Sometimes we can make things too complicated. For example, once I accidentally bust the Argentine border without checking out. I sweet talked the Chileans to let me in (they couldn't care less about the lack of Arg exit stamp), went to get some fuel, and then returned to a different border crossing the next day to sort it out. The Arg border guard was more interested in my bike than my passport and was super helpful. Half the Arg border posts don't even have a computer, nevermind one networked to all the others...

Good luck, franta. If the Chileans won't go along with your plan, go to the border, the take a deep breath, stay cool, cheerfully hand the old TIP in at the Chile Aduana, drive to Arg and get a new TIP with your plates, name etc. Like I said, in my experience they just throw the TIP into the in tray and say "ciao!" And without a name on the TIP, it won't be obvious that you're a new owner. If it all goes wrong, play the dumb gringo. You've bought your ticket now, so you're gonna have to sort it out one way or another!!

That's what adventure riding is all about - adventure!! There is always a solution - it just depands on ho much risk you want to take. :thumbup1:

Oh, and regarding border crossings, Franta, the one east of Torres Del Paine national park (lost my Chilean map and can't remember the name) was a pretty sleepy affair with several KM of dirt road between the border posts.

Maybe see you on the road. I'm back in Santiago for a couple of months before returning north in November - you might pass me on the 40 somewhere between Mendoza and Salta!!!!

Paso Laurita, I believe. Much more tranquilo than Paso Dorotea (also near Pto Natales)

However, that's not exactly heading towards Ushuaia (but not far out of the way). Depending on the river, crossing on TDF at Paso Bellavista instead of Paso San Sebastian (along Ruta 3) gives you another option for a calm crossing - without a computer system (as of early 2013) - and a nice dirt track.

Looks like The border crossing at Rio Bella Vista isn't open until 1 Nov.....

.::Gendarmeria Nacional Argentina::.

Like what has been said before, you can not import a bike into Chile, you'll get 3 months each entry and that's it. (I've asked the Aduana every way as I'm now living there, trying to get it in as offorad only but no joy)

Just transfer of papers to your name in Canada, then they ride to remote border and don't stop on the Chile side, ride into Argentina and pick up a TIP and never return to Chile with the bike. Nothing is impossible.

I've haven't crossed the land border in Chile yet, how does this TIP work? Reading other posts it contains Make, Model, licence plate and VIN, anything else? It must be computerised to show a foreign bike leaving? I assume it different TIPs for Chile and Argentina, not linked? Is there any paperwork for the bike to show on the Arg side that relates to it leaving Chile or vice versa?

I'm hatching a plan that relates to this post. Also anybody know what crossing don't have the Aduans directly on the route through, ones which involve drivers making the effort rather than check point crossings? Read about the Libertadores pass on this tread...ride with a purpose works, nice one!

hola

he leido tu idea y todos los post que han escrito, yo vivo en rio grande tierra del fuego paso varias veces al año la frontera chilena.argentina y quisiera decirte un par de cosas.
la posibilidad de pasar con papeles fuera de orden son muy remotas el agente de aduana es de revisar todo por lo general.por otro lado con respecto a punta arenas es libre comercio pero para empresas radicadas alli en forma oficial . lo que tiene de ventaja chile con respecto a argentina es que puedes ingresar vehiculos usados ya sean autos o motos y eso puede ser favorable para lo que intentas hacer. si tu quieres me puedo dirigir al consulado chileno en rio grande y consultar bien tu inqietud.y responderte que dicen.
saludos
ivan

Any chance of writing in English so that the other 99.9% can understand what you're saying? Sadly, the overwhelming majority of non Spanish speaking hubb users won't bother to put your words into a translation program to see if your comment is relevant.

I just tried (I'm at work) and Google Translate is blocked by our firewall!

Per Google translator:

I read your idea and every post they have written, I live in rio grande tierra del fuego step several times a year and would like the border chilena.argentina tell you a few things.
the possibility of going through papers out of order are very remote customs agent is to check everything I general.por other side with respect to free trade is punta arenas but for companies located there officially. it has an advantage over Argentina chili is that you can enter used vehicles whether cars or bikes and that may be favorable to what you're doing. if you want me I can direct the Chilean consulate in Rio Grande and consult your inqietud.y good answer they say.
regards

It is very hard to leave the country without being checked. Chilean officers pay a lot of attention to papers, the Free Zone in Chile is only "free" for resident companies. If you want I can try to find out more in the Chilean Consulate, just let me know exactly what you plan to do and what documents you have.
(Ivan can´t write in English, I am his wife)

I would not change plate and title only come with.power of authority or at least bring copys of the old documents as well: Ａｄｖｅｎｔ&# xff55;ｒｅ motorbike trip around Latin America - Chile and Argentina

Many thanks for that.

Bit rude Chris. Bloke tries to help and you give him a roasting for not writing in English. Contrary to your arrogant assertions, I'd bet everyone else reading this thread DID put it through Google Translate.

May not be perfect but good enough

"Bit grosero Chris. Bloke intenta ayudarle y darle un tostado por no escribir en Inglés. Contrariamente a sus afirmaciones arrogantes, apostaría todo el mundo la lectura de este hilo lo puso a través de Google Translate."

Roasting? Wot? Not rude nor arrogant at all, neither in terms of how I said it nor what I said.

Franta,

Itching to know the outcome of your plate-swap. Have you made it into Argentina yet? (Hoping for a good 'border busting' story!!!)

:mchappy:

Hi everybody,
First, I would like to apologize for late response and reply to my questions.
In Punta Arenas I went to the regional aduana office with my request to change TIP to my name and my new licence plate. Like I wrote at the beginning of this thread, I had an Alberta bill of sale, new title and registration papers with a new licence plate translated and notarized in Alberta.
At the Punta Arenas aduana headquarters, I met a young officer who spoke excellent English (my luck) so I was able to explain in detail what I needed. He talked to his "senior colleagues" about my request for approximately 10 minutes and I was told that they had never done anything like that before. However, they did say that all my papers were legit and they made a phone call to the office in the port where I went to get a new TIP. I took a taxi and in the port they printed out a new TIP with my name and licence plate.
I do not know if I just lucked out because they (all Chilean custom officials) just won a strike with substantial pay rise and everybody was very happy. In that case, my timing was perfect :o))))
At the beginning of this thread, there was discussion about small "remote" border crossings not being computerized. I crossed many times between Chile and Argentina and I was in the system every time. The same was in rest of South America.
Thank you all for your help and I hope that my "TIP" experience might help somebody in the future.

Merry Christmas
Franta

And there was me, hoping for an epic tale of busting borders in the dead of night, disguised as an 800cc Llama......