|
getting around the temporary permit in Argentina ?
Hello all, I'm new here and I am having trouble finding any info on getting around the temporary import permit in Argentina. I want to bring my bike down there (from Canada) and leave it there because I return every year. how is this possible ? would it be the same as selling a bike down there because either way when I leave the country I won't have my bike with me. Thanks for any help
|
OK to leave bike in Argentina for 8 months with Temp Import Permit
FlashG, if you request 8 months stay on your temporary vehicle import permit at border or with aduana at port or airport, you will be able to legally exit Argentina without your bike. There are excellent safe parking options available in Buenos Aires through this web site.
I am currently working with the Argentine legislature to extend the 8 month stay for a foreign registered bike to ONE YEAR. Please see my posts this region under: Buy new or used in Argentina and legally tour all of South America ( 1 2 3 ... Last Page) Good luck private message me for aditional info. Xfiltrate eat, Drink and Be Careful |
I think you just might be asking too much there flashG. To permanently keep a vehicle in a country other than the one it is registered in is never easy, and rarely wise.
If you were to be stopped for any reason, and paperwork checked, the cops and customs would throw the book at you. Argentina has a pretty well developed legal infrastructure. You can only push your luck so far. Why not buy in Argentina? Simon |
I agree with Simon Kennedy
flashG, if you do overstay your 8 month Temporary Vehicle Import Permit, and your documents are checked at one of the random check points throughout Buenos Aires or less frequently throughout the provinces of Argentina your bike will be impounded by police and it might take you months and a lot of money to sort it out.
Buying in Argentina gives you the right to leave your bike in Argentina forever. Eat, Drink and Be Careful xfiltrate |
Just leave your bike in Paraguay for the time you need to go and cross back to Argentina again. On that border, Paraguay doesnt emit or ask any import documents.
|
thanks for the info. That paraguay idea doesnt sound bad. I think I will continue with the plan of sending a bike down as opposed to buying there. To me it seems crossing the border every 8 months for the temp. permit is less hassle than possibly not being able to cross borders with an argentina registered bike. I'm mostly in mendoza and it is not far to chile.
|
Visas needed for Paraguay
Considerations on entering Paraguay as a US citizen:
My most troubling "official encounter" in South America, was obtaining a visa to enter Paraguay as a citizen of the United States. I was informed that I needed to go to the Consul of Paraguay in Buenos Aires, and that visas would not be issued to US citizens at the border. I do not know if this is true or not, but the information came from the Consul of Paraguay in Buenos Aires. When I arrived at the Consul, I was ready to pay for a visa, one price was quoted, I remember it to be $100.00 USD for a multiple visa good for 90 days only. I said OK, and the official said you will have to leave your passport with us overnight. I did not like the idea of leaving my passport, but I do know this is common practice for former eastern block countries, even today, but not in South America.... So, I left my passport, returned the next day and was told to return in a couple days because my visa had not yet been approved. I was unsettled and went back the next morning and the next and then finally after 3 days wait, my passport was shown to me along with a bill for $150.00 USD. I complained that I was told the 90 day multiple entry visa would cost only $100.00 USD and the official got real upset and aggressive and said the cost is $150.00 USD and we will not return your passport until you pay. I paid and noted that my old style US passport had been razor cut so that my photo could have been removed, and some other person's photo could have replaced mine. For whatever reason I do not know! Perhaps for copying purposes or actually used for a transaction??? I reported the whole affair to the US Embassy in Buenos Aires and was told that what happened to me was just business as usual at the consul of Paraguay. They could not have cared less, and thought I got off lucky. Not a pleasant affair. Be careful.....there might be a limit on foreign Vehicle/moto Temporary Import Permits in Paraguay..., the Consul of Paraguay advised me I would be issued a Temporary Vehicle Import Permit for my motorcycle at the border. He stated very clearly "Temporary" Import Permit, leading me to believe there is a time restriction on foreign vehicles/motorcycles permitted to be in Paraguay. I cannot believe there is no official control of foreign vehicles operating in Paraguay. Perhaps in reality this is true, but due to lack of enforcement not laws and regulations. The continued hassle of obtaining Visas for a citizen of the US to enter Paraguay must be taken into account when thinking about leaving a motorcycle in Paraguay. Also, from time to time yellow fever shot documentation is required at the border, and entry refused if you have not had a current yellow fever shot. I had to show my yellow fever documentation to the Consul. Enforcement of this regulation is probably very lax, from what I understand, and if: Vorteks would post here the regullations for Paraguay Temporary Vehicle Import Permits it would be much appreciate. This is all that I found: ENTRY/EXIT REQUIREMENTS: A passport and visa are required. U.S. citizens traveling to Paraguay must submit completed visa applications in person or by secure messenger to the Paraguayan Embassy or one of the consulates and pay a fee. Paraguay issues visas for one-entry or multiple entries up to the validity of the U.S. passport. Applicants under 18 years of age traveling alone must appear with both of their parents or a legal guardian. In case of a guardian, an original and one copy of proof of legal guardianship are required. A document of authorization from parents/guardian will be accepted only if it is notarized and certified by the county clerk. Travelers entering or departing Paraguay with regular U.S. passports will be fingerprinted. Some airlines include the Paraguayan airport departure tax in the price of the airline ticket. It is recommended that you check with the airline in order to determine whether or not the departure tax has been included. If the tax is not included in the airline ticket then payment would be required upon departure in either U.S. or local currency (no credit cards or checks accepted). Visit the Embassy of Paraguay web site at .:: Embajada de la República del Paraguay en los Estados Unidos de América ::. for the most current visa information. EAT, DRINK AND BE CAREFUL XFILTRATE |
Xfiltrate,
I can only talk about my experiences. Passing the main border between Formosa and Asucion several times, i was never given any import document, but... Passing the same border, a bit western, on the boat crossing the river, i was given each time a document and was confirmed that it was necessary. In other words, it all depends on the border you are crossing. Not only laws inforcement are very lax, but laws themselves are understood differently from one officer to another. Coming back from Asucion on the shortest way (river crossing), one of the police officers told me that i had to pay a fine because "i didnt stay the minimum of 3 days" in the country. I talked with the custom officers when i came back to find out that this law didnt exist. That day was special because the border was closed due to a very important football match in Argentina. They let me cross on a small boat and i guess this was the price for that favor. Paraguay is probably the most corrupted country in South America. Which means that even if you violate the laws, you are most likely to end up paying a very affordable bribe. As of the visas, since i m a European Citizen, i never had to face that problem. In Argentina i passed the time limit by one month and a half and went to the border to fix the problem. I was fined 18 pesos (1% of the maximum fine) |
Visas for Paraguay
vorteks, Thanks for the clarification regarding your experiences with visas for Paraguay. I do understand that EU (European) residents might not be required to obtain a visa to enter Paraguay from an Embassy or Consul of Paraguay AND NOT AT THE BORDER, but US citizens do. When suggesting US citizens leave their bikes in Paraguay, you might consider warning them of the visa requirements.
If you paid only 18 pesos at an Argentina border for a violation of one and a half months of your Argentine Temporary Vehicle Import Permit, you are a very fast taker or just plain lucky. Let me assure you that if you had been stopped at a police check point in "La ciudad de Buenos Aires" or possibly anywhere in the Province of Buenos Aires your bike would have been impounded and, from 3 current reports, you would have had to go through the police/aduana (customs) (3 months in one case) and pay as much as $600.00 USD fine before your bike was returned. In one case, all touring gear had been stripped from a bike during the impound process. This, because the Foreign Tourist expressed his frustration in a very insulting fashion. In Argentina, if Federal Police are involved, or any police, never, never offer a bribe (coima) you might be charged with a crime. Again, please consider that your words here might influence fellow travelers. It is very misleading to forward the belief that violated Argentine Temporary Import Permits can be fixed at borders for 18 pesos. Generally, this is not true. thanks xfiltrate Eat, Drink and Be Careful |
Xfiltrate,
The fining system in Argentina is not fix, it is at the appreciation of the person who is in charge to fine you, is graduated in percentage of the value of the vehicule, which can go from 1% to 100%. In my case, i was given the minimum percentage because : - I never showed myself aggressive and volontarily went to the aduana to solve the problem. - Could prove that the 3 month given by the custom officer the last time i crossed the border, was arbitrary, since other borders gave me 8 month. - Could prove that i was travelling throughout the country with my border stamps in my passport, and not staying in a same place as a non official resident. Anywhere in the world, being agressive with somebody who has the power to harm you is not an evidence of intelligence. In latin countries even more, since the culture is so emotional. Luck has nothing to do with this. I m sharing my live experiences as a motorcycle traveller around south america, i dont see how this can be interpreted as a twisted intention. In that specific case, indeed, this would be more complicated to enter the country for a US citizen, not for the vehicule itself but for the traveller. As a part time resident in South America, you should know that all problems find their solution in that part of the world, not necessarily the expensive way. As long as you can prove that you are not trying to get a profit from your situation, good faith is always a valid argument. |
Good information
Vorteks, thanks for explaining your position. We are in total agreement that it is best to be polite and obey the law when one is a guest in a foreign country.
What I meant by fast talker is that you are/were able to assimilate facts quickly and that the rhythm of inflow and out flow of your communication, in that particular incident, was at a rate acceptable to the customs official to such an extent that he/she identified with you and perhaps even liked you. That is what I meant. Probably, no luck was necessary or involved due to your great skill as a communicator. I am still in doubt regarding the question if Paraguay does or does not issue a Temporary Vehicle Import Permit to "Foreign Tourists" not Mercosur residents, at the border??? Could you also explain the process/reference that the aduana (customs officer) uses to determine the value of a motorcycle for the purpose of assigning the "percentage of the value of the vehicle, which can go from 1% to 100%" when determining the fine for violating an Argentine Temporary Vehicle Import Permit? This process, if it exists legally, has always been a mystery to me, various answers have been given by custom officials here. I have not been able to find the actual process in any written law or regulation. This would be of great value to Foreign Tourists who, for whatever reason overstay their Argentine TVIP. Thanks. Your insight into these issues is welcome and much appreciated Thank You! Eat, Drink and Be Careful xfiltrate |
As specified before, legally, like any other country, an import permit is necessary to drive a non mercosur vehicule in Paraguay. Depending on which border you will cross, that permit will or will not be delivered, even if you ask for it.
Ie : The road border north of Clorinda will not give you any import paper even if sollicited. The river border will give you a paper automaticly. Why? Just a question of time. The road is very busy while the river gets a boat every hour. The difference with "first world" countries, or countries that decided to fight corruption, like Uruguay, Brazil and Chile, is in the application of the law. This is at the total appreciation of the officer. You can be fined for breaking a law that doesnt exist and on the other hand, you can break the law obviously with no consequences (see the people without helmets in Buenos Aires). Regarding the appreciation of the value of the vehicule, the AFIP in Clorinda had to ask Buenos Aires for a quote of the vehicule. This took one day, so i had to come back the day after. My 1993 Yamaha XTE with 60,000 km was then valued 900 USD (2800 pesos), which is not the market value. So i guess the value is stripped off import taxes, since this is a foreign vehicule. http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...-customs-31697 |
Quote:
Can a person tour Argentina, cross into Uruguay (for example) then re-enter Argentina, obtaining a new 8 month temporary vehicle import permit? Is there a waiting period between exiting and re-entering? |
8 month Temporary Vehicle Import Permit for Argentina
BackroadExplorer, what you offer is a very good, workable plan. Thanks for your great web site. What a pleasure!
I have noted that you are posting from Canada, and assume you will be riding a bike registered in Canada with Canadian Title and Plates. As a Foreign Tourist riding a foreign registered motorcycle (Canada, USA, EU, Britain etc) you can request and be issued a Argentine Temporary Vehicle Import Permit for 8 months. This may or may not be automatic, sometimes customs officials give a 3 month TVIP to Foreign Tourists, you might have to ask specifically for an 8 month TVIP. Yes, a Foreign Tourist riding a Canadian registered bike can cross from Argentina into Uruguay, and return to Argentina the same day, or whenever. And, upon each entry an Argentine 8 month Temporary Vehicle Import Permit can be requested and issued. You must also obtain another 3 month tourist visa for youself as well as an another Argentiine Temporary Vehicle Import Permit for your bike. Explain that you are continuing your tour of Argentina, if asked. The only problems reported have been by Ex Pats who traverse the same border year after year, for their 3 month visa, while actually living permanently in Argentina. Doing "in and outs" of Argentina with your foreign registered bike is allowed by Argentine law and is done every day by foreigners with their motos/vehicles. You are also permitted, by Argentine law to exit Argentina and leave your bike in Argentina, as long as the bike has a valid Argentine Temporary Vehicle Import Permit. I hope this answers your questions. Welcome to Argentina Looking forward to meeting you, and providing professional motorcycle parking/storage, if needed. Ed and Elisa Eat, Drink, and Be Careful xfiltrate |
Quote:
One more point of clarification. I should be able to get an 8 month TVIP but only a 3 month maximum tourist visa. Is that correct? Could I apply for an extension with-in the country or would I need to do an "In & Out" if I want to stay in Argentina more than 3 months at a time? |
3 month tourist stamp/visa for Argentina
BackroadExplorer, you are correct the tourist visa is issued for 3 months, but the Temporary Vehicle Import Permit is for as long as 8 months, if requested at border.
I can only speak for the City of Buenos Aires, regarding the renewal of the 3 month tourist visa while in country. At Immigrations here, last year, it was possible for a foreign tourist to renew their tourist visa without leaving Argentina. I do not have up to date information. The process is to find out the current hours for Immigration because sometimes people are turned away after 1PM. When you arrive at Immigrations, ask the information desk person, where to go to renew your tourist visa. Immigrations is a crowded, uncomfortable place, and you may have to wait , so bring your own water and snacks. I remember someone telling me it costs about $50.00 USD, but I am not certain if this information is correct. Also, be aware that several agencies like the Registro Civil have been closed at times... due to the N1H1 flu scare. So, do not leave your renewal until the last day. I do not know if foreign tourist visas can be renewed in other cities of Argentina. Sorry, I do not have up to date info on the renewal of a 3 month tourist visa. Perhaps, someone with more up to date info will post here. Looking forward to meet you. Ed and Elisa Eat, Drink and Be Careful xfiltrate |
I exited Uruguay from Colonia via the ferry to Buenos Aires with a vehicle in May 2010. I was not asked by any Uruguay officials for my UY TVIP. I ran around the Colonia ferry terminal trying to give my UY TVIP to an official who would take it, but no one would even look at it. They all said not to worry about it. So clearly there is no tracking mechanism to determine if my vehicle had left UY on time or not (UY gives 12 month TVIPs). I was given a ARG TVIP upon arrival in Buenos Aires at the ferry terminal there. ARG had a computer program into which they inputted the information about my vehicle. The program had some kind of unexpected problem with it as it was unable to print the TVIP, so the official hand wrote the TVIP after multiple attempts to print the document. I have no idea if the information was saved into a computer database in ARG or if the program was just a template for attempting to print the TVIP. I would really like to know if that is the case. What is stopping someone from creating their own TVIPs?
|
| All times are GMT +1. The time now is 05:21. |