Honda or BMW in South America?
 

Hey guys,
I need help. What you buy?

Honda Transalp (2008) 37000km 650ccm

BMW f650 dakar (2007) 47000km

Have someone experience for witch brand it is more easy to find pars and cheaper parts.
Normally I would say Honda but I am in the moment in Santiago and 50% of the bikes are BMW. How is it in other parts of South America?
Tom

The Dakar is the lightweight model choice out of those two..

Mostly because it sheds weight as it falls apart... doh

Definitely go with the Honda. Sure there are BMW's in Santiago, BsAs, Sao Paulo. But there are certainly little to no BMWs anywhere else. Kawasaki KLR 650 should be your first choice, then a Yamaha, then a Honda, then a Suzuki.

You will be repairing your bike for sure, at least get one that:
1) can get parts in most any decent sized town
2) does not require specialized tools to work on
3) does not require a specialized mechanic
4) when you do find parts, they are not more expensive than a new bike
All four of those eliminate BMW.

Honda
 

out of this two models: get the Honda

first choice for SA (as gunt86 put it correctly) is the KLR650 or the DR650.

saludos desde Bolivia
mika

Dread,
Are you Chilean? I'm surprised to hear that "half the bikes in Chile are BMW".
I did not realize there were so many rich folks! :helpsmilie:
I see many small Chinese, Indian or Japanese import bikes. About 80% small bikes 400cc or less. Only BMW's I ever saw in Chile were ridden by RTW travelers. Has something changed?

My guess is that in Chile you will pay a premium price for either BMW or Honda. I'm guessing you may be able to buy a NEW Chinese 250 for price of the Dakar or Transalp?

I would try to buy a used bike from a foreign traveler, make it legally yours and do your ride. As mentioned, many many KLR's and DR650's end up there for sale.

By the way ... what is your ride plan? The type of ride you want to do really dictates what bike you should buy, no?

The Transalp in general is a very good bike. But Used ones in Chile are usually beaten down into junk. Use you best judgement. No bike lasts forever. bier

my experience
 

All bikes need service on a long trip. In my opinion, buy the best engineered motorcycle that you can afford and you may reduce the number of visits for service. I am happy with my choice and was spared the need for major work at any point. Not sure if you can find an impartial source of mechanical failure rates for these motorcycles.

I rode Central and South America with a relatively new F800GS. Left New Jersey with 3200 miles on the odometer, came home 32,500 miles later. Around the 20,0000 mile mark the front chain sprocket sprocket chipped a tooth (replaced both sprockets in Sao Paulo, with a new chain.) The oil heat exchange box caught a rock and needed to be replaced due to slow drip (replaced in Buenos Aires.) In southern Bolivia the chain separated, perhaps due to poor attention on my part (fixed with the most basic tools imaginable.) A Honda dealer in Cusco, Peru, replaced the rear wheel bearings with a generic set.

I purchased a lamp bulb, sprockets, chain and oil heat exchange at BMW, and yes they were expensive in South America. If I was more experienced I could have purchased and gotten the sprocket work done anywhere. The oil heat exchange box was replaced by a private mechanic. Any imported parts get hit with high import duties, and I bought them in perhaps the two countries with the highest tariffs. I'll carry my own replacements sprockets and chain on future adventures. Think about buying a sprocket set, chain (plus a chain tool) and extra inter tubes. I took several oil filters with me and was resupplied several times, and bought one in Bra$il. Generic brake pads and two rear tires were not purchased from BMW.

A guy I rode with in Venezuela had a hard time getting a replacement vender for his Kawasaki as we went from shop to shop in Caracas. Another guy I know needed to had parts flown in from Japan to Cusco for his Suzuki. I think you will see more Honda dealers. Does the Trans Alp automatically adjust for high altitude? The two rider I mentioned had ls of issues with their carburetor needles...something I didn't have to worry about.

There are one or more BMW dealer in every country in South America, except the Guyanas. That said, the dealer in Caracas didn't have the oil filter I needed, but there are a lot of problems with inventory in Venezuela...and a lot of other countries in South America (I'm talking about more than just moto parts.)

You might want to look at this comparison: BMW F 650 GS vs. Honda Transalp vs. Kawasaki Versys vs. Suzuki V-Strom DL 650 It looks like the BMW gets significantly better mileage, is more powerful, has higher clearance...and takes slightly longer to stop.

There are many more Honda dealers in South America than any other major brand. I would look hard at the Honda 400 Falcon, made in Brazil so relatively cheap and parts and service available everywhere.

Of the two you list, I would still go with the Honda, because as a former BMW owner, I have not found them to be any more reliable than a Japanese bike, and much more expensive to buy and maintain.

And the most important things on that service are;

Change the oil!
Check the valves
Clean/change the air filter.

If you do those 3 things you can put off the full service. Even put it off to the next next (yes 2) full service.

I'm not including the frequent service items - oil and adjust chain! Nor the ware items of tyres, brake pads, globes etc.

You can save a good deal of time by doing things yourself. beer

Ted, you hit it right where it hurts!

As an owner of two Honda XR650Ls and two KLR650s, living in and riding them in South America....

I have had MANY BMW riders stopping by our place in central Peru, and even with new bikes, it is amazing the problems they have had. We tried to find a spark plug and a rear tire for an F800GS in a large city with 80,000 motorcycles.. Not a chance. The owner had to travel a day and back to Lima just to pay $21 for a simple NGK plug!

Honda XR650L or a DR650 are your best choices. The Transalp may be a Honda but it is almost unheard of in SA. Get yourself one of the above with 18" and 21" wheels and parts that are interchangeable with smaller models that are common throughout SA and is repairable on the side of the road with a screwdriver and a hammer!

The XRL is a gas hog, but it will run on the same jet from sea level to more than 14,000 ft. Don't think the DR can do that!

As always... Simplicity is key.

A motorcycle trip should be fun. Not stressful. There's enough stress already without wondering if you can keep going with the bike you're on.


You mention the XRL being a gas hog ???? Are you running standard jetting ??

I've not experimented with MPG on mine yet but I heard reports of it getting 50 mpg + with sensible riding..

Ted

Well..... "Sensible" is a hard thing to nail down!

I run #152 with snorkel still in, but an open DG glass pack . Good for 0 to 12,000 but will do higher without much complaining.

Wow great,
so much good posts in so short time
thanks, you helped me a lot.

Go Yap!!
 

It's a non-question. Choose a Honda.

There is indeed a fetish for BMWs amongst the rich crew in Santiago (notice how none of them are scratched, dented or even dirty) and also amongst many of the moto tour operators in Chile / Arg. But I've heard (and read here) so many stories over the last year of broken and subsequently stranded Beemers.

IMHO the success of Beemer adventure bikes is down to good marketing, not good engineering!! Go Jap, all the way!!

The above kind of says it all. :thumbup1:

The XR-L is a pretty tough bike in cool weather, not so great in super hot conditions. BTW, the DR650 uses a 17" rear, not 18". Sources tell me that it's now easier to locate a 120/17 than an 18 tire in most of Cent. & S. America. Dunno.

A stock DR650 with air box cover off and a fuel screw ... CAN go high. Fiddled ones have more trouble and need to be re-jetted. (like mine)
A Fuel screw (pilot screw) would help the XR-L as well I would think at high altitude.

Honda in South America and BMW in Europe
 

I have both: a Honda Falcon NX 400 in Buenos Aires, and a BMW G650 GS in Spain. I have done about 40,000km in South America with the Honda and it has been great for me!

Contrary to my own advice, I bought a 2010 G650GS today. It was just too cheap to not buy it. Time will tell if it was a wise move, but at less than the price that a KLR of the same year goes for, I'll give BMW another chance.

Get a KLR...
 

I'm currently stranded in Lima awaiting parts for my R1150GS when the transmission input shafts bearing failed while I was several hundred miles from any BMW shop. I had considered doing the work myself with the help of a local shop in Ahycucho but wisely decided to ship it to lima instead. What a job it is to get to the transmission and clutch! Three weeks later and over $2,500 I'm still here waiting waiting on the parts to be shipped in from Germany.

Tires have also been a huge pain and not available anywhere except at a BMW shop which are weeks apart.... The next trip won't be on a GS

Honda v BMW for South America
 

Mr Steam Turbine, I am in Buenos Aires...let me know if I can help in any way.

Having assisted the Globebusters.com with the problem of procuring BMW parts needed as they toured South America, I am well aware of the cost and the unavailability of many BMW parts in South America, and the exorbitant South American import taxes levied on BMW parts.

We have two BMW G650GS in Spain, have toured to Turkey and back and have been more than pleased with performance and service. We availed ourselves of 3 "free" nights in Istanbul while starter and head gasket problems were resolved at no cost to us. BMW is a great bike for Europe, into Asia and maybe Africa - check with Chris Scott for all things African. And, the BMW warranty is impossible to beat.

Honda has manufactured the Honda TransAlp for crossing the Alps and manufactured the Honda Falcon NX400 for crossing the Andies. No ABS needed on South American ripio, trocha, etc., but no free hotels.

Today, there is a new Honda XRE300 marketed for overland and local travel in South America. After more than 50,000 K each on our 2 Honda Falcons NX400 rosa del desierto and I are seriously considering "downgrading" to the new Honda XRE300s - an amazing motorcycle for South America and it is very, very inexpensive when compared to a BMW.

Why? Why not?

xfiltrate

Sorry to hear of the bad luck, sadly you're not the first BMW rider to be in this situation.

I support your "Get a KLR" idea. Travel bikes (for me) need to be somewhat expendable, not too serious an investment and something one can walk away from and not be broken, trip ruined.

For $2500 I can buy a decent, nice running used KLR or DR650, add $1000 more, maybe something fairly pristine or a DrZ400 or XR400. NO where is cheaper for bikes (new and used) than California (maybe Japan?)

Yet we constantly see guys ship their $10K to $20k bikes from continent to continent. They must be truly attached! I wish I had that sort of money. And when it breaks down (as your case demonstrates) you'll also need LOTS OF TIME as well. Hope you find somone who can actually rebuild a GS trans. Not all reports from Lima in this regard are positive. Best of luck!

Thanks Xfiliate
 

Thanks Xfiliate. Right now I'm not reall pleased with my BMW but when I look back beyond the past three weeks it's actually been a reliable bike. I have cursed the oddball back tire size and the excessive weight of the bike since the start of my trip but the size and power has also been helpful at times.

The service at the Lima dealership has been good and they had the bike apart within 48 hours of arriving. I also had good service at the BMW shop in Rosario, Argentina but both shops simply didn't have parts and had to order then from Germany.

The Lima dealership told me BMW is opening a regional parts warehouse in Brazil next year to ease the problem but if a BMW fails in South America be prepare to go through a whole lot of trouble getting it fixed, including arrangement to have it shipped hundreds if not a thousand miles to the nearest shop, then waiting weeks to get back on the road.

I took advantage of the situation and flew to Iquitos for a week at an Amazon lodge.....

A whole three weeks ????

Yeah, I'm a less-is-more kind of guy. Rather than spend thousands flying a favorite bike around, I think it would make more sense to put the money towards buying whatever is a common, easy-to-service motorcycle in your destination country.... but that's me.

Three weeks
 

Right about now that three weeks is feeling like three months. The shop has the bike mostly assembled and discovered the hydraulic clutch master cylinder is bad and they don't have the parts to rebuild it. We're hoping to find a generic cup seal from a hydraulic supplier in Lima but if not it's another three weeks....jeiger

Always trade up!
 

I agree with brclarke that buying a locally registered moto and selling locally is the way for a ¨foreigner¨to tour South America.

Time may be a consideration, if you have ¨a lot¨of time , Woody Allen´s favorite number, than it would be possible to bring along enough money to buy one motorcycle and additional funds for however long you plan to tour that country, then sell the bike and walk with the money. Don´t forget to bring soft luggage, tank and tail bag, GPS, kit you will need, tent, jacket, gloves , helmet etc...

A sample of used bikes available in Argentina can be found here...

[url=http://www.de-venta.com.ar/agencias-de-motos-0km-financiadas-y-motos-usadas-particulares.php]..:DeVenta:..

Frick'in BMW
 

I made it exactly three stop longs before my hydraulic master cylinder failed. We're trying to get another seal from a hydraulic supplier and hopefully that fixes the problem.

Turns out, the original hydraulic clutch master cylinder is not sold in individual parts so you have to by the entire master cylinder rather than a simple rebuild kit. Price: $650! and two weeks to get it shipped in from Germany,

Yea, I'm just loving this German technology......... jeigerbeerjeigerbeerjeiger

Jeeez ... bummer! Maybe someone can "improvise" something?

If you've got two weeks ... maybe another side trip is in order?
Book a Galapagos tour out of Ecuador. Great way to spend a week or so.

Best of luck ... hang in there ... and tell those mechanics to stop looking for problems. (in the USA, BMW dealers take seminars on how to "find" things that need to be done ... and then "sell" the idea to the owner. (this is TRUE)

Sounds about right...... There should be a warning alarm on every BMW which tells you that you're more than 50km away from a BMW workshop.

And another alarm for when your bank account drops below £3000. Because that's what you need in reserve for 'on the road' repairs.

One thing that is good about BMW's though....

While you're broken down waiting a month for your £3000 worth of parts (Don't forget the import tax) , you get to know a random part of the world that you would of normally ridden straight though.. These are the places that you will remember..

However, sods law dictates that it's normally the arse end of Terd town with winter closing in behind you...

Excuse my sarcasm. It's Christmas and I'm rewarding myself with a good old fashioned BMW bashing :clap:

Yep!
 

That's my philosophy. Buy local, tour, sell local, well, in the same continent. Besides the obvious avoidances (like the cost of shipping), planning is half the fun to research and arrange purchases in advance. Plus, one gets the chance to try different bikes, suited to the terrain.

My first was an F800GS, then a KLR650 and now I've sourced a good DL650.

I haven't done the cost/benefit, but can say that each time I've sold for around $1,500 less than I purchased. To me it's worked out cheaper than renting, a title in my name to permit cross-border movement, no concerns with onward shipping, no waiting, no administrative hassle, etc, etc. Most importantly, I've never had to wait days/weeks to sell.

10 weeks to get the parts to fix my BMW!
 

It took three weeks to fix my BMW transmission in Lima, Peru only to discover the clutch matercylinder was bad and it was going to take another three weeks to get the parts, seven weeks after arriving at the Lima BMW shop and the day I was supposed be be back on the road they discovered the rear para lever bearing is bad and it's going to be another three weeks to get the part! Thats a ten week stay in Lima waiting on the BMW dealership to get my bike back on the road because they can't get parts and take forever to work on the bike.

Total cost to date: seven weeks in a hotel $2000, Parts and Labor in Lima $1600, airline flight to California to get the parts the shop couldn't $1000. Price of a brand new KLR $6000. Enough said?

Skip the BMW and enjoy your vacation!

beer

Sorry to crash the thread but someone mentioned to:

"Check the valves"

How does one do this? What am I looking for?

:eek3:

Good luck mate!

I've ridden with BMW buddies for years. None keep their BMW past the warranty period. Most buy extended warranty, so they get 3 or 4 years additional on top of the factory 3 year warranty. Plus, for international travel ... they carry travel insurance. :mchappy:

Some BMW devotees around here are able to do work themselves and carry various parts half way round the world in their panniers to prove a point ... you never know when something will let go! doh But they have the skills, parts and tools to do the work themselves. Most of us don't have those skills.

In defence of BMW ... I think most Japanese bikes (including KLR's) would also have to wait on parts in the case of major engine or trans component failure. Unless the model you ride is sold/serviced at local dealers, then you won't find parts for it even at a Kawasaki dealer.

But I'm thinking parts may be located closer than Germany?:innocent:
Example: The Suzuki DR650 is now assembled in Colombia and sold in several S. American countries including Colombia, Ecuador and perhaps Peru'. I'm assuming parts are available at stocking dealers but cannot confirm this. :confused1: Also, they build the Vstrom 650 there too.

Honda or BMW?
 

Hi all,

this has become a very interesting thread and I had to laugh out loud a couple of times reading it.

here are some of my comments

@charapashanperu

yes, the DR650 can do this, I have done it.

@Mr Steam Turbine

OMG!!! If you come to Bolivia, I will buy you more than one beer. I am in Samaipata, and the next BMW dealer is only 120kms away ...


@ridetheworld

You call yourself ridetheworld and you dont know how to check the valves? Wau, you still have a lot to learn (as we all have to do) ... start tomorrow morning and buy a manual for your bike, then read it five times and then ask a friend to show you ... good luck on your journey.


So, I think the question Honda or BMW is answered by everyone contributing to this thread.

Saludos
mika

Long waits for BMW parts is not something just afflicted on those out of western Europe.

I currently have four 1200GS's in pieces. Waiting WEEKS for parts which one would think would be instantly available.


If I need an obscure part for my 20 year old Honda ... I can have it within a week.

Well Mika, you'll no doubt be astonished to find out that I choose the name 'Ridetheworld' as an alias for a forum that is especially for overland 'round the world' trips, namely on two-wheeled motorcycles. On a well-known Indian travel forum I called myself 'Goldenchapati' but you might be surprised to learn that, in fact, in real life I am not actually "golden" nor am I "a chapati". I am deeply sorry if I missed the part where we're all supposed to create alias that have some bearing on 'real' life, and can only promise that next time I invent an alias on an internet forum I will endeavour that it will have some reasonable connection to my otherwise mundane, day to day, existence.

:D

Oops, I missed that bit too, I'd better grow another head, and fast.... :-D

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

:))
 

All right, I'm actually smiling and laughing again.:thumbup1:

I don't think Mika intended any offense by his comments ... but as a NOOB, I'd grow a bit thicker skin ... it's all in good fun ... BUT ... Mika does make an excellent point.

IMHO, it is not wise for any Motoquero to attempt a cross continent or RTW motorcycle ride without substantial background knowledge of the basic mechanics and day to day maintenance of their bike.

Wouldn't you agree? ?c?

Without this knowledge you may fall victim to incompetent or unscrupulous
"mechanics" (or BOTH!!) out on the road. So take a course, get the service manual or hang out with skilled friends ... but do make an effort to learn the basics ... it will pay dividends X 1000 out on the road. :D

Once you buy a bike ... jump in and learn as much as you can about the ins and outs of that model. It's just not that hard ... and so much expert knowledge and experience here and on other model specific forums.
All the best! bier

I don't think you need to know a dam thing about anything before you go travelling on a bike..

I agree, you SHOULD, but if you don't if doesn't mean you don't belong...

I'm not going to learn how to make a birch bark canoe with a swiss army knife in case mine springs a leak.. You just improvise, adapt and keep going.

The learning curve will be steep, adventures will be had, stories will be told and the circle of life continues.


This forum is great for advice and real experience. And yes, you need a thick skin at times.

And that's definitely the most important thing to have if you plan on a big, long trip...

:thumbup1:

Mollydog,

My response was merely an attempt of humour albeit sarcastic, hence the tactile smiley face at the end. This was also done "all in good fun", I can assure you of that :)

As for not knowing a thing about motorcycles and being a 'n00b' well I think your logic is fundamentally flawed. We all have to start somewhere and while some people learn better in the library I learn better by experience, and sometimes by asking questions on internet forums.

In India I just bought a motorcycle without any previous experience, and absolutely no knowledge of anything about them whatsoever. The next day I took on Kardung-la, one of the highest motorable roads in the world.

Yes it was stupid and a little dangerous, but reaching the top was one of the best moments of my life (short-lived as on the way into Nubra my outlet rod punched a hole the size of a penny coin the head gasket!!!).

In the short time I've been on the HUBB I've learnt many interesting things, for example what a GPS does and why I should buy a free-standing tent - to the technicalities of motorcycle ownership in Chile, and why you should always buy a Honda over a BMW in South America ;)

This has all been invaluable and I will do my best to respond to the other queries of 'n00bs', preferably without making trite and condescending remarks. But anyway let's not high-jack an otherwise perfectly interesting thread!

:palm:

Hello again,

read my post again and the answers. I did not want to offend anybody. sorry if I did.

@ ridetheworld. It is your journey, you have to enjoy and live with it. Of course there is no need to know anything about bikes before setting off.

But as you know, it makes travelling easier if you use a map, if you carry a puncture repair kit and know how to use it, if you have the right visas to cross the next border ................ but you will get where you want without a map, you can wait for somebody to fix your puncture and one day somebody will come and fix it, maybe you will even cross the next border without the right visas ......... it is your journey.


@ Mr Steam Turbine. I did not want to offend you with my comment about the next BMW dealer being only 120kms away from where I live. If you come thru Samaipata, please contact me and I will look after you and your bike (if needed) .... thank you very much for posting your experience here on the HUBB, not everybody is that honest.

bier

saludos
mika

Thanks for the advice and you're definitely correcto about the tyres -- I'm definitely going to learn how to fix a tyre before I set off.

bier

BMW and a sense of humor
 

No offense taken on my part Mika, I still have a sense of humor even after seven weeks dealing with this frick'in bike in Lima...

Just for an update, we found a bearing for the rear panalever in Lima but then found the master cylinder for the clutch has failed again. I'm thinking the system was not bleed properly since the master cylinder has all new parts and the manual says it should be done using a vacuum pump. Even after showing the mechanic photos of the procedure the dealership is nearly refusing to bleed the hydraulic system using a vacuum pump because they don't have one.

In regards to knowing the mechanics of your bike, you simply don't have the tools and facilites to do anything other than minor maintenance to a R1150GS alongside the road not to mention the parts you need. Your forced to depend on a dealship for something's and not all dealerships are equal....

If those that know your bikes mechanics so well can tell me if it's important to bleed the hydraulic clutch system with a vacuum pump it would be greatly appreciated.

Hi. You don't NEED a vacuum pump. It just makes it a lot easier and more reliable. You can bleed it by hand. You just have to be sure when you do. You can use a large syringe too.

And they should using Clutch fluid too. Not Dot 4. The clutch fluid is Vitam LS or Vitamol 10.

I am a BMW Technician at a major dealer. PM me if you need any specific info and I'll try and help you if I can.