Problem with TS185
 

Hello all,

I am a new member but have been reading your posts on this site about TS185s and they have been extremely helpful. I recently obtained a TS185 for $450AU and it runs a little rough so i'm trying to fix it up. I dont know a great deal about bikes so bare with me but i have been doing a lot of reading and have found out that these bikes are pretty tough!

Anyways, the bike runs OK after it starts however this takes a little bit of work. I thought it may have been the carby so i pulled that apart over the weekend and gave it a good clean with some carb cleaner but that didn't seem to make any difference. It seems to be a problem with the spark plug. I replaced it with a new one and it kicked over fine and i rode around on it for half the day but when i went to kick it over again the next day it wouldn't kick. After pulling the spark plug out it was black and covered in what looked like oil? I tried cleaning it but it didn't help. So i chucked a brand new spark plug in and it kicked over perfectly again? Does anyone have any suggestions of what it may be?

Also the bike is really really loud. It seems there is an exhaust leak at the front of the bike (i can feel air coming out of the motor when i place my hand near the front tyre). Is there some type of seal that connects the exhaust to the motor that i have to replace?

Any help you could give me would be greatly appreciated...

Thanks
Travis

Ts185
 

Great bikes, I worked on a ton of them but they are no longer sold in the USA. Check one of the online parts books and see if you are missing any seals where the exhaust goes into the cylinder. The US bikes had a tricky little seal and as the bike wears it will blow out and make lots of noise. If you can find any of the bits put them in with a layer of high temp silicone and see if that helps. The bike will use plugs occasionaly but while you have the carb apart see what number is on the main jet and idle jet. They are the two removeable jets you see when you take the carb float bowl off. Check with local shops to see what is a proper size. Clean and oil your air filter to see if it is clogged. Also check your transmission oil level to see if you have the propper amount. Sometimes a oil seal will go out and you can suck trans oil into the engine causing plug fouling. Run a good grade of injector 2 stroke oil in the injector tank and go have fun.

Hi Trasta,
I don't know about your TS and you certainly should get the right manual, but you might like to take a look at this thread:-
http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...al-stuff-27640

'cos you say that you don't know much about bikes generally - I found it very useful for general advice; I wish I had had some of that advice before I started some jobs!!

:welcome: BTW.

Cheers,

Thanks heaps for your replies.

I have managed to dig up some new seals that are located in between the exhaust and the motor so ill put them in over the weekend and see if it makes any difference. I'm assuming it should give me some more power as well...

Ive already put the carby back together but it was pretty easy to pull apart so i may check the jets to see what number they are over the weekend as well. Does anyone know off hand what they should be?

Thanks again for your help!

Travis

Good progress then! Go careful with the studs for the exhaust - you would not be the first to strip a thread or snap off one or more studs (more posts in here about how to deal with it when it happens!).

I suggest you do a search in here for workshop manuals - there may be one available electronically for your bike; even if there isn't one here, you may find one on the WWW.

Hi I live in Mexico where the TS185 is still available new. I bought one last year and have been happy with it. The main jet on the carb should be a 195. This only controls the mixture at full throttle though. Between the one quarter and three quarters open positions on the throttle the mixture is controlled by the needle jet. You can adjust this by removing it (just take the top of the carb off and pull out the barrel) and moving the clip on the top of the needle up (weaker mixture) or down (richer). At idle (closed throttle) the mixture is controlled by the air screw on the right hand side of the carb. Anticlockwise (weaker) clockwise (richer), but don't take it out more than three full turns . Here I live at an altitude of 500m the bike was running a bit rich at 4000 rpm so I moved the clip on the needle jet up one notch and now it is much better. I have big problems with this bike when I go up in the mountains here. Anything above 1000 mts (some are 2000 ) and it runs really rich and lacks power. Pretty nasty if you are off road on a steep incline I can tell you. I think it really needs a slightly smaller jet even at this altitude as I think it is running rich at full throttle. Haynes produce a workshop manual for this bike which is very detailed and parts are still produced. Good luck

TS185 problems
 

Hi Travsta,

I have 4 TS/TF185 and I'm learning something new about them all the time. My latest machine blowes lots of blue smoke and fouls plugs. I removed the barrel and found transmission oil on the crank. This means the R/H crank seal has failed due to hardening/damage. I'd suggest yours may have the same problem. TS185 only blow small traces of blue smoke when they are running well.

First check your carb/oil pump alignment, gain access to the oil pump (behind the spront sprocket) by removing the left magneto side cover (4 screws) and then the oil pump cover (2 screws). Remove the small screw half way up the slide body of the carby on the left side. Turn your throttle (bike not running) and watch the slide move up. You will notice a notch in the slide. When the notch is visible through the screw hole, check the oil pump and see if the oil pump plate aligns with the line on the right hand side of the pump. If not adjust your oil pump cable adjuster just where the cable enters the crankcase.

Another possible cause of your bike chewing up plugs could be a bad exciter coil in the magneto assembly. If some of the turns of wire have shorted together due to insulation breakdown, the ignition will not deliver the correct voltage to the primary side of the coil, therefore the bike always runs best with a clean plug. A plug with carbon adds resistance which means a poor spark.

Well I replaced the seals on the exhaust last weekend and now its a lot quieter and seems to run a bit smoother but its hard to tell. However, the plug fouling continued. I had to replace the plug twice over the weekend so something is def wrong.

I wont get back up to the bike for another couple of weeks (it stays in the country) but when i do ill check what you said alfy. Hopefully that is the problem. I might even try and bring the bike back home until i sort out the plug fouling. Is it difficult to change the crank seal?

Thanks a lot for your advice everyone. Much appreciated.

I will keep you informed on progress.

Trav

It's a big job
 

Hi Travsta,

I have pulled a couple of TS185 engines apart to swap cranks and it was the sought of job that you definately need a manual. The Clymers manual suggest that you have to split the crankcase so head, barrel, clutch cover have to be removed. I'm not so sure because under the right hand clutch cover is the crankshaft and its drive gear. Take the gear off and you get access to a cover plate. Under the cover plate is the right crank bearing. Under the bearing is the seal. I'm not sure if it's possible to manufacture some sought of lever assy to remove the right hand crank bearing (this would be the difficult part because the crank is in place). If it is possible, you could easily remove the right hand seal and replace it with a new one. I can conclude that the only reason Suzuki put a cover plate over the bearing and seal was for ease of maintenance. Of course I haven't tested this theory. I'm going to try it in the next couple of days so I will let you know.

Maybe someone like Bill could give us some advice. Either way I'll let you know how I get on.

That cover is a bearing keeper to stop the mainbearing walking out along the shaft. There is no easy way that I know of to replace the seal other than pulling the cases apart. A service guide is a very good idea.
I'm still not convinced completely that it's a seal problem. What does the plug l;ook like when you pull it out? Is it sooty black, or tar oil black? What grade of plug are you using? I have seen a faulty coil, lead or cap do the same thing. Maybe the carb float is too high? And as someone said, the generation coils at the flywheel may be partially shorting, lowering the spark voltage. An auto electrician should be able to test the spark voltage.

Regards

Nigel in NZ

Nigel has got it right.
 

Hi Travsta. As Nigel has said on the previous reply, you have to split the case. It is a big job for someone with no mechanical experience but if you have played with bikes before, it maybe within your grasp. Get a manual and rule out all other possible causes as Nigel suggested. Also keep an eye out on ebay for another complete bike. It may come in handy for spares and some can be picked up for as little as $200 in resonable condition. Goodluck.

Unfortunately i have almost no mechanical experience when it come to bikes. I have worked on plenty of cars but this is the first bike i have owned. Therefore i may have to leave the crank seal to someone who has more experience, assuming that is the problem.

Nigel, the plug looks wet with black oil all over it. Even when i wipe the plug dry and clean it up it still doesn't start unless i replace it with a brand new plug. I have tried two different plugs and it happens on both. I have tried the NGK BP7ES and the BP8ES. Is there any other plug that i could use?

Its confusing cause the bike runs well and kicks over first time when you replace it with a new plug but after a few days of riding it just seems to die out of the blue and then will not start again...

Thanks
Trav

You should be able to tell if the oil is coming from the transmission due to main bearing seal wear by keeping a close eye on the transmission oil level. If it is dropping mysteriously then yes it is probably the main bearing seal that needs replacing. Correct me if I'm wrong, but couldn't another posibility be worn rings and or cylinder barrel maybe the oil is leaking past the rings.

Forgot to mention you could also try a BP6ES plug in my Spanish manual that came with the bike recommends this plug "if the normal one is wet". The BP7ES is the normal one.
Regards

Well ill be going up to the bike next weekend so ill have a bit more of a play around with it and try out some of the stuff that you guys have mentioned. I will try the BP6ES plug as well just to see if that makes any difference. Ill let you know how things turn out.

Thanks engmex
Travis

Just replaced crank seals
 

Just finished fitting engine to my TS185 last night and it's a different bike. The excessive blue smoke is gone and it goes well. I got my crankcase seals from Janet's on ebay (UK) for about $23 delivered. I got a complete gasket set for $19 delivered from a fellow in Brunei. Made good use of the manual whilst pulling down the engine. My crankcase gasket was in perfect condition which only leaves the R/H crank seal as the culprit.

Travsta, my TF185 is a smoker and has been for 18 months. Even though it is smokey, it still runs and starts well. I know its using crankcase oil and the seals are shot. Just thinking that you may have an exciter coil problem because of the above. It depends on how much oil your bike is using. My TF produces a large cloud of smoke when I take off but eases off when I'm at a constant speed. I have a spare stator assy if you would like me to send you one. Just send me a private message with your details. I can also include some tech data on how to do the job.

Apologies to everyone for the lack of updates lately. I haven't been able to get up to my property in a while however i managed to get up there over new years and was able to bring the bike home with me so i can get some serious work done on it.

Unfortunately the bike is not running well at all. I kicked it over last week and it ran horribly. The bike really bogged down in second gear and than i sat there with it idling and all of a sudden it died and i could no longer start it again. It even back fired when i tried to kick it over again so im not sure what that was about? Maybe that was due to spraying some "start ya bastard" in it?

How much are stator assy worth? I dont really know much about the coils in these bikes so i may have to do some research on that. I will also have to look around for a manual for the bike as well.

Thanks
Travis

Sorry to hear about your problems, did you try the other plug? There are three coils on the stator plate I damaged one the ignition one a few months back a new one cost me about $35 (US) here in Mexico. Actually I had a very strange experience with my own bike about a month ago when I was recalibrating the oil pump I couldn't get the marks toline up by adjusting the cable to the pump alone I had to adjust the throttle cable too. This is not the way
to do it but the carb also has throttle stop screw so
I reasoned I could use that to make minor adjustments
after. Well when I started the bike the idle speed
was way too fast at about 5000rpm and I couldn't slow
it down not even with the carb stop screw. I was
messing around with it and as the bike got warmer and
I took the choke off the revs got higher and higher
until eventually they went right up into the the red
line at 10,000 rpm off course I immediately turned off
the ignition, guess what it didn't stop just carried
on at 10,000rpm so I hit the Engine cut out button, no
effect the engine carried on at 10,000+rpm, turned off
the fuel no effect understandable due to fuel in the
pipe then I pulled the HT lead off the plug AND IT
STILL CARRIED ON AT 10,000 rpm Can you believe that, I
was there with a motorcycle and I couldn't shut off
the engine even with no bloody spark. Finally I put
the choke on and luckily it flooded and cut out. The
only explanation I can come up with for this behavior
is that the there was so much fuel/air going into the
combustion chamber that is was igniting due to
compression like a diesel. Still it's weird as with a
diesel the fuel air mixture is injected at the precise
time. Has anybody else every experienced something like this.

Yeah i did try the other plug engmex but did not have any success... :(

That does sound like a weird problem you had. I must say i have experienced a similar problem to this however it was due to the choke. The bike revved extremely high with the choke on and u could not kill it with the kill switch. But as soon as the choke was turned off the bike lowered its revs.

Well i have begun the process of elimination with my bike. Over the weekend i checked the compression and got 130psi so that is fine. I also checked the oil/fuel calibration and that was perfect. The lines matched up perfectly with the notch in the carb. So from what you guys have said i believe it must be a coil problem or the crank seal problem (or both). Alfy do you still have the spare stator assy?

Thanks
Travis

Hi Travsta. One thing to check, especially if you have had a back-fire, is the woodruff key that goes in the slot in the end of the crankshaft. It locks the fly-wheel and crank together. If this shears off, then the timing will be completely to hell and will change if the flywheel starts to spin freely. It's happened to me a couple of times. Are you getting any spark? If a crank seal has gone, often the motor will run better with some fiddling of the choke. The buggered crank seal will let enough air in to make the mixture too low, but the choke will make up for it. Another easy test is to take the top off the motor (barrel etc) and fill up the crankcase with petrol (gas). If there is a leaking seal, usually the fuel level will drop slowly (taking into account evaporation) and may even drip out from the left side of the motor. If the right side seal is gone, it will tend to suck heaps of oil out of the gearbox and smoke like a bastard. 130psi is very good for a two-smoke so that's not your problem. After that, it will be a case of swapping electrical components until it comes right. I have never had a coil or a CDI unit fail on any of my TS/TFs but I'm sure it can happen. I would go for the engine coils first.

engmex, I have seen exactly what you describe happen several times. It's usually described as "Going Diesel" but it's not actually really that, as you suggested. With a two-stroke, if the throttle stays open enough, AND the revs get high enough, then the flame and heat from the previous combustion can ignite the next intake charge. My guess it you may have had the throttle cable outer sitting on the edge of the adjuster on the top of the carb, instead of actually inside. This will hold the throttle slide about half open. It's very easy to do, if you are playing around with the cables. Both times I have seen it happen, the motor was stopped by dropping the bike into gear (not a pretty sound, hearing the gears mesh at those engine revs!!) and being stalled, but your idea of choking it to death is a much better one. I'm surprised that you could not get the calibration marks to line up. There is usually lots of lee-way to get that right. If you had the throttle cable incorrectly seated, that may have been the cause? Also, I assume you know about the hole in the side of the carb body that the index mark on the slide lines up with? Some Suzuki models, the oil pump marks line up at full throttle, but not the TS185.

I hope some of this helps. If you want, PM me for more information.

Kind regards

Nigel in NZ

Hi Nigel, Ill have to check the woodruff key over the weekend. I just got a couple of new spark plugs for the bike yesterday so ill test for a good spark over the weekend as well.

Thanks heaps for your help!
Travis

High speed suzuki
 

Thanks for the discussion on two stroke suzuki's. Brings back memories of working in a Suzuki shop when TS185's were the machine to have. Also the X6 250 suzuki road bike. I have had several rev uncontrollably while up on a work bench with the key and kill switch turned off. I stopped one by pulling loose the carb intake boot and stuffing a rag in the intake. The best one was a RM125 dirt bike that had a missing kickstarter so I was push starting it in the crowded parking lot. The throttle was stuck wide open and there wasn't any kill switch. luckily I held onto one hand grip as the bike wheelied away and it fell on it's side and spun in cirlcles at 10,000+ rpm till it ran out of gas. Every two stroke that I have owned will smoke on startup and then not be too noticeable after a few miles run down the road. The GT 750 suzuki's I have owned will fog the whole road when opened up after putting around town. There is a reason extra plug holders were a popular option on these bikes.

Hello all,

Well I'm in the process of taking the bike apart and checking all the things that you have mentioned. I haven't been able to get the flywheel off yet. It seems to be stuck really well. I have removed the main bolt and have tried using a flywheel puller but i keep shearing the center bolt that should push it out. Does anyone have any hints on removing a stuck flywheel? I can see the woodruff key after removing the flywheel bolt and it still looks good.

I managed to track down a repair manual for the ts185 and it had some figures in there about the stator coils. I was able to measure the coils without removing the flywheel. The exciter coil (black/red wire)measures 240 ohms and the pulser coil measures 200 ohms. The manual states that the exciter coil should be approx 220 ohms and the pulser coil (red/white wire) should be approx 75 ohms. So does that mean i need a new pulser coil? I was under the impression that if a coil breaks down there would be either 0 or infinite resistance?

Sorry for asking so many questions but I'm determined to get this bike working well and I'm learning a lot along the way.

Thanks
Travis

Hi Travis. Good to see you are sticking with the old girl.
Stuck fly-wheels are a problem but I have never let one beat me yet. I use the combined hammer-and-puller technique! Wind up the puller bolt until it's quite firm, and then give the top of that bolt a sharp rap with a hammer. Give it another half turn and hit it again. Keep repeating that. This will usually crack the joint between the shaft and wheel.

Coils are odd beasts, and yes, you are right about the open circuit-closed circuit fault measurements. For a meter to measure resistance, it has to put a small amount of current through the circuit. In a coil, this will produce a magnetic field introducing reluctance and affecting the reading over a fairly short period of time. That's why the reading will change, especially if there are lots of turns in the coil winding. Probe, read and get out quick. I can't tell you for sure if 200ohms on the pulser coil is enough to be out of spec, but my gut tells me no.

Don't feel sorry about asking questions. For me, learning all this stuff over the years is only really worth while, if you can pass it on.

Kind regards

Nigel in NZ

Thanks for your reply! Well ill give the flywheel another try today and hopefully it comes off. Then again if your gut feeling says that the pulser coil is ok then i may not need to remove it at all.

But now im really confused. I thought the pulser coil might be the problem as the bike is running really rough (coughing and sputtering) but if its not that im not sure what could be the problem? I have measured the ignition coil to compare with the specs in the manual and that seems fine. I guess it may be the crank seals letting air in which is causing it to run so rough?

Also is there any trick in removing the rear axle? I have taken off both the bolts and removed the brake lever and pole which stops the brake from spinning with the wheel but i still can seem to pull the axle through? The frame will not let me slide the wheel off the back as it is enclosed in so the only way i can see to remove the wheel is to take the axle out. I must be missing something cause its just not budging.

Thanks
Travis

More thoughts...
 

If it's a crank seal, and the motor will still run at all, like yours, then ride it until it's warm and then tweak the choke. That will put more fuel into the motor to compensate for the extra air leaking into the crankcase.

With the setup on the TS, the choke is of the "all on or all off" type. With a small leak, the choke open will quickly load up the motor with too much fuel and the improvement will be for but a short while. With a big leak, the motor will pick up and run better for longer until the motor again gets loaded with fuel. If it's a really big leak, the motor will ONLY run with the choke on, or not at all.

If it's not a leak, then opening the choke on a warm engine will make it run worse.

If you can't get the flywheel off easily, then that's a pretty good sign that it's not the woodruff key. If the flywheel was loose and spinning in the crank, then it would pull off without much effort.

Remember that the electrics on the TS185ER are the same as on the TF185 Mudbug, which every second farmer in NZ used to ride. I'm sure there are about a zillion of them in Aussie, so include that info in your search for electrical parts, if it gets to that.

Stick with it mate, they are a fun bike, and usually very very reliable. They will take more abuse than almost anything else out there.

Kind regards

Nigel in NZ

Well i have put the bike all back together and kicked her over. She started first kick which i wasn't expecting. :) She actually runs pretty good so maybe a clean of all the contacts in the electrics is what it needed. However it still blows a lot of smoke. When i play with the choke it tends to stuff things up. The bike runs well with the choke off (lever in the down position) but when i start to pull it up the bike tends to run rougher so im guessing i do not have an air leak. I changed the transmission oil and went for a bit of a ride around the back yard.

Soon i will begin the task of changing the crank seal which hopefully should get rid of the excess smoke however i will wait until i get a Haynes manual before doing this.

Thanks everyone for their help. Ill keep you all informed when i begin the crank seal change.

Cheers
Travis

Hi Travis. Lever down is choke on. Sounds like a seal to me.

Regards

Nigel

Is it really...? :oops2:

Sorry i probably should have checked that out first. I just assumed lever down was choke off. Well it sounds like both seals are gone then.

Thanks
Travis

Yeah, lever down, pivots and lifts the plunger at the other end to open the enrichment circuit. Check that is case you have a non-standard carb.

Cheers.

Nigel in NZ

No no its a standard carb. You are correct! Just shows my lack of motorbike knowledge... hehe

Well im a bit busy over the next few weekends but ill hopefully make a start on replacing the seals after that.

Cheers
Travis

First post to this forum, so be gentle!

Been reading the threads on the TS185's. I have a 77 I picked up a couple years ago and really just now getting around to going thru it. It has been fouling plugs and won't tack out properly, bogs up to higher rev's. Been through carb a couple times.
Last summer, it had the run-away engine syndrome, the throttle cable was not out of place. When I tried hitting the kill switch, I got a big shock. Found that problem the other day while checking out the ignition coils in the magneto. Both the electric & charging coils lead wires were rubbing on the crank shaft and had worn through. It was a result of a very bad repair job somewhere along the way.
Anyway, my pulser coil is bad and I tried to reapir it, but destroyed it in the process. Totally unwound it. Found some coated magnet/coil wire at Radio Shack today and will attempt to rewind it myself. Will let you guys know how it comes out.
I removed the clutch plates yesterday (clutch was slipping) and found the friction (driven) plates way below service limit, need to order replacements. Figured I'll order & replace the crank seals while I'm at it since those seem to be a problem with this bike.
Hope all this repair get the bike running right, would love to ride it!
Later,
Rickthefix