RFID In Tyres
 

I have just read an article about Michelin putting RFID* chips into tyres. I know it won't adversely affect the performance but Michelin reckon it could give them a big commercial advantage going forward if it gets picked up by car makers. I just wonder how long it will be before the bike makers pick up on it and start to make use of the technology.

https://www.fleetpoint.org/technology-news/radio-frequency-identification-rfid/michelin-to-incorporate-rfid-to-all-its-car-tyres-by-2023/

I was also wondering what benefits we could see as riders compared to non-RFID chipped tyres.

* - RFID - radio frequency identification chips are passive devices that are energised by the reading unit and give off a unique identification signal

These are not the same chips they're using in the Covid vaccine are they? :rofl::rofl::rofl:

Stock control and manufacturing process tracking now but drive by roadside tyre checking a few years down the road. Or is that another paranoia conspiracy theory to add to the list? :(

Lets see what happens.
 

I looked at this and it appears to have been used in lorry in the US for a few years. Looks interesting.
I have no idea how bike makers will react. I personally think it appears to be a good thing for lorrys, and hope it will be of use to cars and maybe bikes.

The potential problem is legislation.

Step 1 the Europrats make TPMS mandatory and part of road worthiness inspections. Not a problem in itself and probably a step forward if we stop a few trucks and cars having blowouts next to us. Will they mandate it on bikes? Probably yes because one exception drives yeah-but arguments.

Step 2.

Dunaplop have made a deal to give Honda a million nasty Brazilian tyres every year, each wrapped in a fiver. Why? Because they need to shift this **** to make it worthwhile keeping the factory open, the factory that makes 50000 better tyres they sell in the aftermarket at 500% margin.

Now here's a wheeze, fit them with RFID tags and make the TPMS refuse to accept anything else. The Europrats know its for your own good, no nasty Chinese tat or nice new knobblies a size smaller that move you off the type approved one. The switch to 900% margin and free champagne at every Brussels sex orgy paid for by tyre makers, well, if they didn't someone else would.

What the bike lobby needs to campaign for is free access. Force the TPMS system to accept any tyre with at most a disclaimer to say you accept non-OE.

Without this there will be no more tyre choice and a pair of tyres will be priced in comparison to buying a new bike (or better still renting it with restricted mileage and no going abroad).

Hopefully the UK follows the US where this access is enshrined in law rather than the EU where manufacturers can freely buy commercially advantageous legislation.

Personally, I'm selling TPMS so win either way :rofl:

Andy

One extra safety feature:

If your tyres are over x years old the TPMS locks the MOT failing light on.

Who sets X? The government, based on advice from the tyre makers.

You know fresh rubber every year regardless of mileage is for your own good don't you :rofl

Andy

Interesting
 

Interesting points you raise Andy.
I am not in the crystal ball business and don't know what lies up the road, I am sure there are many scenarios. I am not qualified to offer opinion as I don't know anything about it. Maybe clarity will come in time.
Be safe and be kind.

I'm not sure what purpose RFID would serve that wouldn't be served with a simple identification stamp on the side of the tire. Seems kind of superfluous to me.

That's pretty much what I had in mind with my half tongue in cheek suggestion above. It's a lot easier to have the tyre tell you how old it is via electronics than have to grovel around looking for embossed marks that seem to get more eroded by kerbside 'scuffs' with every year that passes. It's another legislative step on a road that says 'we'll do it if it's easy to do irrespective of whether it'll actually benefit anyone. Just call it a safety feature.'

If they've been using them in US trucks for years they don't seem to be doing much good. I've never seen as much rubble from blown up truck tyres as there is along US interstate verges. I've even - twice - had a truck tyre blow up as we were actually riding past it. On a bike that's not a pleasant place to be with bits of rubber everywhere and steel reinforcing wire flailing around on the hub like a wire brush on an angle grinder. Despite doing many more miles on Euro roads I've never seen it over here.

Paranoia? Maybe.
Unreasonable cynicism? Probably not.

Give the hidden-unemployed jobsworth bottom-feeding pond-life oxygen-thief bureaucrats a tool to make their worthless, insignificant lives somehow more indispensable and you'd better believe they will exploit it to the max.

Meanwhile, in any town near you, old ladies are being mugged and priests are fiddling with children.

All new cars in the UK have had to have a tyre pressure monitoring system (TPMS) for some years so that boat has already sailed. As far as I am aware there has not been any move to extend this to bikes - certainly it isn't fitted to my Moto Guzzi which is just a few months old.

Whether the functionality of the TPMS is part of the MOT, I have no idea but I suppose if it has to be fitted then it should be working.

As regards old tyres - the UK government has had regulations since 2018 that mean that it is an offence to have tyres older than ten years on certain commercial vehicles - https://www.gov.uk/government/news/commercial-vehicle-operators-using-old-tyres-to-face-investigations

And what a complete pia they are. Our current Mini has them, as did the previous one. With the previous one they went wrong - twice. The car went back - twice- under warranty to have them fixed but they were back flashing warnings at us within weeks. The ones in the 2yr old current car started playing up about six months ago and the dealer was supposed to fix them during a late summer service. That lasted until about a month ago. The warning now takes over the whole screen and you can’t use the radio until you work through the menu to cancel it.

And no, it’s not the tyres actually being flat. I’m pretty anal about that.

Try swapping wheels left to right.

The Mini uses VDO or Huf valve mounted sensors. The signals are already weak due to restrictions to stop them microwaving people through their foil hats or blocking Channel 5, so a low battery and anything extra between sensor and receiver is enough to cause a loss of signal. Its a BMW so the threshold to be invited to the dealers is always low. Get the weakest signal closest to the receiver and you have the best chance.

Once they start to go its all down hill. Signal re-acquisition burns battery and low battery loses the signal.

Any tyre place with a sensor tool should be able to check the batteries, the hand held tool is pretty universal, no need to use the dealers if they are out of their depth.

Andy

If you'd stop reading the Daily Mail, you'd realize that the "Europrats" are the ones making sure this sort of thing does NOT happen.

I'm on the advisory group where the industry is picking the rules. The civil servants havn't a clue, its specialist technical stuff. To include the manufacturers makes sense, we know what is possible and what isn't. The job of the politicians is to look at why the industry wants certain rules, (its so we can sell more and exclude our competitors) and represent the public . This is the part the EU is terrible at. So no Daily Mail, just monthly email circulation and a webinar a couple of times a year.

The consumer goods repair is likely to be a victory for a coalition that includes component manufacturers. Sell a switch to Sony you get pence. Sell one to a repairer you get pounds. Whoever built that coalition did a good job working the system. On automotive stuff that section is too weak, its why they still get away with locking out OBD-2 etc.

Andy

So what you're saying is, it's not the "Europrats" letting manufacturers reject third-party tires - it's you personally?

(Incidentally, they're so terrible at it that they expressly banned printer companies from doing that with cartridges eighteen years ago.)

My guess is that the RFID chips will be used for inventory control at the manufacturing, distribution, & retail ends of things, and also perhaps for maintenance tracking purposes by large fleet operators.

Although the press release mentioned the possibility of the vehicle polling the RFID chip to determine tire data (e.g. speed rating, winter tire or not, etc.), I kind of doubt that will ever come to pass. Not every tire manufacturer in the world will choose to embed RFID chips, and it would not be desirable to have a situation in which a defective RFID chip interfered with the operation of a vehicle.

I suspect we will eventually see these chips in motorcycle tires, but again, for inventory control purposes in the distribution chain, not for any use once they get mounted on the motorcycle and the motorcycle is delivered to the end user.

Michael

I have to say that as I think about it moreI cannot see a practical benefit to the user for RFID - there aren’t too many fleets of bikes knocking around as far as I am aware (except for police and possibly the army). For fleet users then I can see the benefit. For manufacturers there are, as has been pointed out, benefits in terms of inventory but that could just require the RFID being between the tyre and the label so not capable affecting the tyre’s performance but still getting the inventory benefits - probably cheaper too.

I can potentially see a couple.

1) Easy checking of tire age at MoT/technical inspection stations. I just had my car inspected last night - they checked the tread on the tires, but not their age. Haven't ever seen moto inspectors check the age either, but on a bike you're much more vulnerable to old tires. So making scans a routine, and at least pointing it out as an advisory, could potentially save lives.

2) We've all probably heard about how the same make and model of tire can be made at different factories, with widely differing qualities. RFID would be easier to routinely check than finding plant codes on the stamping...

One thing you learn from living in the UK is that there are people over here who rush to blame the EU for everything from their blocked crapper to the British weather.

FWIW, I used to work in the aircraft tyre business when they were looking at embedding chips in the tyres for TPMS purposes. As I remember, it came to nothing as it was more cost effective to build it into wheels. The only future that was seen for RFID chips was stock control, and that could be rolled out into a number of areas in the industry where there are many similar parts requiring checking and cataloguing (seats and life jacket cabin checks for example).

As for the suggestion of a life limit, the aviation industry already has an "over 10 years do not fit" rule but nobody removes an otherwise serviceable tyre for that, normal inspection criteria suffice for determining ongoing serviceability. Almost like you like you would do on an MoT or routine service, in fact.

No paranoia here then.

Correct
 

Agree, there are some people expressing a lot of anger, in the UK over EU and in the US their election and the current situation. It is concerning. I guess they have to be angry at something...

As an aside to the main subject of this thread - I think the reason you see more truck tyre blow-outs on US highways is due to the fact they are running at far higher speeds for huge distances...

EU lorries are restricted to 90kph (56mph), but in the US trucks are free to travel at the posted speed limit (there are no mechanical/electronic speed limiters), and on freeways/interstates that is often in excess of 70-75mph.

That is some hot rubber!

Jx