Ban the Dakar??
 

Is it worth having the race in a country?
345 competitors and their support vehicles cross the Cardones national park in Argentina, destroy fragile soil, scare the shit out off, or run over local fauna; and of course there are the people from "God's own country" running ofensively loud exhausts (jerks)
All in the name of promoting tourism...Peru and Chile have dropped the Dakar, I wonder how long till it is no more..
Is the Dakar defensible? Does anybody care??c?

(very roughly, words to this effect were the editorial in La Nacion, one of Buenos Aires's main newspapers, (well respected))

The terrain which is destroyed is minimal. The "Humans destroy" everything chorus has to end and is for the most part nonsnese.
Truly sad two countries who desperately need a boost to their economy fall back to their leftist roots of starvation and a dismal understanding of reality.

Viva la Dakar!

Chile was cancelled due to flooding and Peru withdrew because the emergency services were needed for expected El Nino damage

The Dakar organistation puts a lot of money into the local economies and charitable/environmental projects.The route planning is done in consultation with local authorities to minimise damage from the event

Not sure what you mean by the "gods own country" and offensive exhausts

If you want to get concerned about environmental damage caused by offroading its the recreational side which has the biggest questions to answer

The damage caused around Fort Bou Jerif in Morocco by motorbikes is an embarrassment to all overland travellers imho

No the Dakar should not be banned at all

Its great to see the fun police are out again........

Why ban the Dakar?! As said above it brings a lot of revenue in to the countries is goes through. It is also a great competitive sport...far better than watching grown men kick a bag of wind around for a ridicules sum of money then crying when they fall over

Why not ban everything that people do for fun, recreation and sport then we can all live sad and lonely lives, not interfere with the fauna, destroy fragile soil and pollute the air.............maybe we should even ban breathing as we are all using far to much oxygen.

As for Gods Own Country.......give it a rest...it was boring the first time. One more loud exhaust in a country of loud exhausts aint gunna make a lot of difference. When you come to BKK let me know and I will have some cotton wool ready for your ears

Wayne

No need to get personal Wayne,

just interested in opinions on the Dakar.
Personally I don't fall on either side of the fence, I enjoy the Dakar but I have also seen the destruction that remains 4 or 5 years after the race.



"Why not ban everything that people do for fun, recreation and sport then we can all live sad and lonely lives, not interfere with the fauna, destroy fragile soil and pollute the air.............maybe we should even ban breathing as we are all using far to much oxygen."

Kind of agree here, but the green guys get in everywhere....


"country of loud exhausts" really?
when did you last visit Bolivia and Argentina?


"..it was boring the first time"
your opinion, mine is that any person like that is an arrogant, self glorifying jerk.
You know that loud exhausts piss people off.....for me the public in Yorks. first got angry with motorcyclists a few miles south of Whitby....remember?? Were you around then?

Yes you are right there is no need to get personal but are you not doing that?

I know loud exhausts p1ss folk off but people will have them, but there is no need to keep bringing them up and pointing fingers.

I might have been around for the Whitby thing depends on what year, things like that don't tend to stick in my head

Not had the privilege of visiting those countries so maybe that was a bit strong, but one more loud exhaust won't make any odds. But having a prolonged dig at other members is also a bit strong!

If certain groups and people had their way we wouldn't do anything except work and sit at home. I am sure that the Dakar does its best to help minimise the damage done and maybe even compensates where needed. But damage is done everywhere everyday it is a fact of life. I believe nature compensates and over comes this in most cases. I could be wrong.
Every time you ride your bike you are helping to ruin something. So maybe we all just sit at home in our armchairs.
Then the site which you joined will be of no use because no one will be over-landing :mchappy:

Wayne

Dakar
 

My credentials..... I have followed the Dakar from Buenos Aires and rode through many Argentine towns with thousands of fans waving and even mobbing me on my Honda NX400. I was well behind the competitors yet, I personally believe the goodwill generated by the Dakar and those who make it happen far surpasses any damage that has or might occur. The deaths of competitors, and there have been few and deaths to spectators are very minimal when compared to, let's say more established sports like football or futball (soccer).

This is not to say even one human life is not worth calling the whole thing off, but it is to say the competitors are well aware of potential danger and the Dakar organizers have, IMHO done their very best to insure the safety of perhaps hundreds of thousands of spectators en route.

Until you yourself have experienced the excitement, in the balls to the wall delight on the faces of thousands of fans waving and shouting encouragement, then you might not know the true value of the Dakar for the competitors and the fans.

And, let us not forget the economic boost experienced countrywide for each country where passes the Dakar. And the boost given to all things motorcycle, and 4X4. I have been blessed to have been able to feel the positive emotion of the Dakar, and look forward very much to following along again.

And the women like the Dakar as much as the men. Of course, this is what I have heard. Birth rates soar around 9 months after the Dakar passes through, but who is keeping track? Would this be a zero sum game or a win win, gee I don't know. (One of the very few comments on sexuality ever posted on the Hubb Pub, sure hope this doesn't start a trend)

xfiltrate

Good to see someone present FACTS here. So both countries will be back hosting Dakar in future.

I like the Dakar but do agree some sensitive areas get damaged. But Dunes can't be hurt so no harm there, even the Garbage trucks can't hurt sand. (Yes, studies by people with college degrees (all lefties I'm sure) have done extensive research into affects off road on Dunes. Negligible damage (none).

But other areas are more sensitive (rivers, streams, foliage and plants) need more regulation. Fact is the French organizers do a HELL OF A GOOD JOB trying to route the event in an "environmentally friendly" way. Is it perfect? No. Does anyone care? Not many locals down in Argentina, Peru', Chile or Bolivia far as I can tell.
But I'm sure the "lefty agitator environmentalists" in cities DO object. As of yet, I doubt they have the strength to ban the event ... but pressure needs to be brought to protect what can be protected. Sustainability. (damn lefty concept)

Orgainizers do change routes to give previous areas time to "heal". If up to local countries, they'd likely not care where it was run. Low level political hacks just want cash. It's French organizers (leftists too no doubt) who take the time to work out best routes and actually KNOW the land.

Dakar brings millions onto these countries, employs a fair amount of people too, so worth it to make it "sustainable". Ruining it would be agin to killing the Goose that lays the golden eggs. $$$$$$$ doh

However, don't think the Dakar will make life easier for over landers riding bikes. Why? Because many will figure you're just another rich Dakar guy with big buck team sponsors (sure guys, add more stickers on your bike :clap:) .... and will charge you accordingly. doh

Already seen this in Baja .. and it really pisses me off to be thrown in the same pit as Trophy Truck guys with million dollar budgets ... but that is EXACTLY what's happened in Baja.

As far as loud pipe go? I hate them. But let the local folk decide. It's their country. Far as I can tell (from hours of watching videos) they LOVE loud pipes.

But "Jerk" number one would have to be our own beloved Robby Gordon, a dismal failure at his job in the last few years. But the worst thing about Robby is his bad mouthing of everything and everybody has made millions of former fans not only hate him, but also HATE Americans. Unforgivable. :thumbdown:
Nothing but bad choices from Robby last few years. :nono:

Spot on, and agrees with what I've read on the Dakar. :thumbup1:

And if El Nino does turn the whole route into a lake they'll be up against the Eco Dakar if they ship it all back across the Atlantic:

Africa EcoRace

Ahh yes the leties saved everything nonsense, extremist groups create problems, not solve them. The left loves to get credit however the clean air act was shoved through via the Nixon administration via executive order giving birth to the EPA.:thumbup1:

So what do lefties do? Well other than paddle out in petroleum made canoes to protest offshore oil rigs, not much, rational thinking is not in there genes. Nor in any extremist line of thinking.
.

As a professional environmentalist (God I hate that term unless you're referring to the beardy, sandal wearing weirdos who want us all to live in caves) and dedicated petrol head I'm not convinced any motorsport can be classed as "Eco"

But still if they can minimise the impact and put on a good good show I'm all for it :D

"And the women like the Dakar as much as the men. Of course, this is what I have heard. Birth rates soar around 9 months after the Dakar passes through, "



WHAT?? where do the competitors find the energy...after racing all day?:D

The has been a lot of subjectivity here, and both sides offer a perspective, but unless we hear directly from both sides of the tale directly, we are just repeating other people's opinions. It is interesting to hear from those that have been there though and it gives a good picture of what happens

I think the Dakar brings, not only money and employment to the areas where it travels, but also a great deal of positive possible tourist exposure and I'm sure it helps to bring communities together.

However, environmental damage to support a sport is not OK. Were living in the grown up world now where we need to balance our fun with not destroying important (and usually very niche) habitats.

I'm sure the Dakar organizers put in place a lot of effort to minimize damage. However, all those terrible lefties may be helping with their complaints, perhaps it will help the Dakar people to do even better, year on year? It's all a PR battle really!

In all, I think it is healthy to have an argument for no and yes, it brings about improvements. Keep it going, but I'm not that bothered, you have to look really hard on your TV to get it and if I've got to pay extra for TV......:censored:!

I love your profile picture, tell us about it?

Thats me and Bruce P (who's pic it is) taking our Aprilia Pegasos on a bit of a green lane smash and grab on a cold wet day up in the Peak District. We were running a tally for who fell off the most which I lost by a small margin. Every fall needed a little celebration though.

It's amazing where you can (attempt to) get (to) if you have a bike that you don't mind dropping!

Right on :scooter: Sounds like you like to do lots of off roading and exploring :thumbup1:

yeah, let's ban also all boars in woods :rofl:
More damage they do every night to the undergrowth then all dakars together from the beginning. Of course also no loud talking in forest or meadows - you could wake up something...

Ban the Dakar??
 

Basically our actions have no consequences, the planet is going to be exploded by the sun in some billion years anyway, so let's shout down anyone who raises any problem with this logic and call them silly names, let's be divisive and partisan, throw derision at anyone who questions the status quo, because that's all worked so well so far.

well, that's not entirely true. Humans can mess up Earth if they'd really tried,
at least for themselves. Sure universe will work it out but we may not survived this as dinosaurs didn't survive ice age or people flooding etc. etc

The real eco terrorists!
 

See what we cannot see, perhaps our concern and energy expended about the pros and cons of the Dakar in far off lands might be better spent tackling the real problems of eco terrorism - Big Agriculture and Big Pharma!

xfiltrate

If anyone is interested, the nonsense by the op about loud pipes and God's own... Dakar, calling people a jerk is aimed at me.

The sorry trolling saga goes like this:

At my thread the comment about a loud pipe at

http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...it-south-84140

led to

http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...r-abroad-84247

Which lead to this current thread. Maybe there are other funny threads/posts too, but I've been too busy riding a bike to delve further. Life really is too short.

I note that Charlie aka Churchill has again been banned from the hubb. He was also banned as Waterfox, then as Cleland.

I wonder what his next user name will be? We'll spot him soon enough.

Safe travels all. May we all focus on our family and friends in this uncertain world.

Yeah I realised fella

Wayne

Yup....I snickered at that too back then and realised, probably like everyone else, that you were far too busy riding to be bothered by the antics of some armchair warrior... !

Sent from my Lenovo B6000-H using Tapatalk

I haven't read all the posts, and it seems like it degraded to insults, but in Mexico, in Baja, it seems that the races there are well-like and supported. The original organization that preceded SCORE now has their own 1000, so there are 2 1000's there every year, as well as the shorter ones--again, the locals don't complain, but not sure how/if it is messing with any endangered flora or fauna.

I watched a program about the Dakar, and there where protesters aganst it at the race.
The race organiser explained months in advance the rout is picked, the argentian archilogical bods given route then they go over historical sites rout changed to ensure they do not go to near them, bar wrapping them up in cotyon wool nothing else would stop them falling down as argentinia leave them buildings out to the elements.

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Barring old structures (which the organisers and countries protect anyway)the terrain is basically harsh desert that suffers negligible damage anyway. Maybe if it was run in Hyde Park the Eco protestors may have an argument. Have any of you environmental nazis ever ridden in a desert? There's bugger all there to destroy compared to most normal areas.
Toby Price would cause less harm in a Dakar than 1 day of emissions and rubbishy generated out of a small town in any developed country.
I hope the Dakar goes on forever.

I hope the Dakar goes on forever too ... but you are 100% wrong about the Desert. I grew up in the Mojave Desert and have been riding there as well as Northern Mexico and Baja Sonoran Deserts for 40 plus years.

The fact is, there is a lot to destroy. I don't mean Sand Dunes ... Dunes do not suffer any damage ... but most other areas do and there are dozens of species of flora and fauna that can suffer. It's documented that dozens of species have gone extinct in last 50 years.

Plants in a Desert environment are "stressed" to begin with. So running over them doesn't help much. Add to this dozens of insects, Birds, Tortoise, Spiders, and furry critters that live on or below ground level. And don't forget streams and rivers. (Argentina) It's a whole Eco system and all can come under attack if riders aren't careful.
I'd suggest reading up on it.

But here is some more irony for you: Our military has used our California Deserts (and Nevada, Arizona and New Mexico too) for running military exercises ... for over 60 years. NO RULES! They blew the be jesus out of the Desert for decades.

And yet ... the Deserts are still there! Now, military maneuvers are very limited ... we don't need to practice here, as we've plenty of "real" wars to train in. doh Lots of Drones in the air around here however!

So a reasonable compromise has to be reached. But that is not easy.

The Blue Ribbon coalition is a pro off road riding group in USA. They try to preserve riding areas. One thing they do is try to keep riders on DESIGNATED trails ... limits damage. Logical, right?

Sadly, many of our own Jack Asses here don't stay on the trail and piss off the Green Nazi's ... who, by the way ... have ALL the Money and ALL the Power.

They've already managed to lock up about 2 million acres of Desert here in California. YET ...(ironically) they will allow rich developers in to build yet more track homes! doh) Pure Bull shit.

Best the Argentines and French Dakar organizers can do is LIMIT damage by clearly marking route and levy steep penalties for going off course for no good reason.

Good news for Dakar fans is so much money is being tossed around to greedy Argentines officials, not much chance an environmental protest will gain much traction anytime soon. Money talks. Bullshit Walks.

But if they plan to be there for the long run, they better address these issues, and it's not just Argentina, you've got Chile, Peru and Bolivia to deal with as well.

Just reminiscing with a good mate what I saw in January...