There are few places in this world I would not go. I do try to be mindful of with whom I do business with (directly or indirectly) - in terms of who is to benefit on who's expense - as I do when I am at home. Often I am not making the best, the most altrustic or the most genuine choices - but I make an effort to do so.

Personally I can't condone anyone to go to any country, nor to not make their life about saving everyone who needs saving. One can be selfish some times and still be a genuine empathetic and generous person.

?What's our ethical responsibility? Our first responsability is to earn the respect of our hosts.

I remember having read something similar somewhere.
It´s a difficult object I think. We all want to be ¨good¨ people and for some it means give and share, but is that the right thing to do?
When many travelers give things or money to people who have less, there is the danger those travelers create a image of us westerns being riding wallets and the poor people expect the next traveler also to give them something, maybe getting angry when he doesn´t want to give.
Another question: are the poor people really poor, or is it only in comparison to our lifestyle? Are they less happy then we are?
And also: if we give, to whom we have to give? We can´t feed a whole village or a whole country. If we give one family, what about the other families? That´s unfair and can create problems in between them.

As others mentioned it doesn´t mean we can´t do anything. In Europe most people from the north and west seeking the sunshine in France and Spain. I went to the Balkans, the same sunshine but my money is definitely better spent there.

Ethical travelling is complicated... And it is a very good question.

We are not even able to start without feeding some countrys who did something wrong in the past.

Buying a satellite messenger / tracker from the US? Its a country who did kill most indian people in the past.

Buying a car in Portugal? That country did gain their economy in the past from slavery.

Buying an japan bike/car? There was Pearl Harbour..

Even the swiss did rent mercenary`s in their history (16th Century).

Considering that, is it really ethical incorrect to to travel to any country in the world? is it incorrect to visit israel, because of golan? Or was it incorrect to travel to Russia because of the krim situation? Later probably the ukraine situation? Is it better travelling to australia, a country who did too harm their aborigines?!

Moralism it something what dont fit into travelling / adventures as we like to do it.

If we ask Greta, we kill the nature with using gasoline/diesel for "just" travelling / adventure purpose.
The countries that supply us with diesel / gasoline are not exactly known for their democracy - to made another point. We cant do something good with feeding them by using fuel?

Most on a RTW Trip are not spending a lot, we are on a budget. Most of us are travelling quickly. Some of us even do wildcamping and are not using hotels.

No we dont bring a lot for the local economy. Any package travellers did spent a lot more. We did spend a lot for normal holidays, not at international extended roadtrips.

Travelling is something most of us are doing JUST for ourself. Just a view use it for filming, writing a book or similar - are giving something back to the society (without making a business out of it).

We could do a lot to the society at home, we could host refugees, we could cook for homeless people, we could try to made the live better for our neighbours or strangers we meet.

Yes I did donate directly in India at a Orphanage - but did my cash went into the pocket of the director or did it really reach the kids?

That we can do something better with cash abroad - is mostly just something for our ego, for ourself and will not help someone else. Think about the millions of cash our rich countrys did spend in the third world - did it really help at the end of the day?

Also the missionaries - do they really help in africa?
https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hu...onaries-101726

Yes, we selfdriving travellers are feeding some restaurants, hostels and similar - but - if we would visit that country with our family, using the tourism industry inside of 2 Weeks, nice Hotels, nice restaurants, tours, trips - we would spend more, and more people would be able to have a job, income, paying tax and so on.

No, we cant even start to do ethical tourism (also not by plane, train, bike). It seem to be even unethical to be so priveligated to think about that topic.

But we can try to living and traveling with more sustainability...

Surfy

:devil2:

Maybe there are other methods of travelling ethically. I will admit that this is just imagination at the moment but I do plan to find out. Most of the conversations centers around money - and that is part of the story. But maybe there's more. Maybe there are other ways of giving.

It is impossible to live without doing harm. As we walk, we kill. To eat is to kill. To live in a physical body is to do harm. It takes resources to live.

For me this trip is less about travel and more about the honest exploration of being human. What does it mean to be alive? I'll be filming, creating music, seeking those with wisdom, and magic places where earth power resides. I'll be seeking stories and other ways of looking at life. All while expressing a true and honest love of being alive. But more. An honest wish for all humans to understand suffering. The nature of mind. And seeking meaning in every moment.

Then sharing this with the world. Free. I am currently also seeking a way to monetize this so that the people who share and help create can receive financial gain through donations from organizations and individuals. This is tough one as I'll not be around for long times...but the intent is clear.

To tell others stories. Record and produce their music free, and help publicize their art. All art. Written, drawn, and played. To seek wisdom from others, and share it.

The power of video and the ability to share on a world stage can be life altering. This is the more important purpose of my leaving the comfort and security of home, my lovely and wonderous family of friends. To use my talents and greatest loves, music, motorcycles, and travel combined into an ongoing story and exploration of not the world - but of the internal odyssey.

Ya, I know how this must sound to some...but I can't help it. I've been prepping for three years now to get ready to go. I'm selling everything, closing my business, thinking deeply about the why. What am I? Why would I do something like this? How am I going to do it? I'm close.

As I explained earlier somewhere - I am main caregiver for my 90 year old mother, who in the last 2 months has experienced a serious decline in her abilities. She suffers from dementia. She is my anchor to this place, and when she passes - I'm off. Its not because I hate where I am or what I'm doing - its just time. I never want to see the sun rise or fall in this place again.

I have a spiritual life that is not rooted in any religion. The closest is to Buddhism, but neither am I a Buddhist. And this voyage is a reflection of that. It is NOT a seeking, or running away, or a trip, or a motorcycle adventure. For me, it is a manifestation of life energy converted into motion, and expression. Carl Jung said - "Maybe the purpose of life is to shine a light on the darkness of existence".

I shine my light - for whatever its worth. At least I try.

Very nice words, a nice vision - but at the end - it is not more. It also not have to be more.

You try something fresh, something new, something growing, a "thing" you try to monetarize - it will never be ethical at the end. Look clearly as it "as is", not "as it should be". It will be your baby, your company.

Yes, you could try to "made the difference" too while travelling, but you cant be so productive, so helpful as you can be at home. Where you (can try to) understand how the people think, how you can help them in the best way.

This will not get easier abroad, with different cultural background.

To create a plattform where people are able to create content and able to monetarize it, that is exactly how youtube, tiktok and other brands work. They earn cash, but they allow too the content creators to optain cash (too in poor countrys).

Yes you can do something near similar, what will work - but just if you look at it as a business, a company - not ethical bull*it. Think about how many millions did vanish till some today popular Online Services - was able to create cash (too for content creators).

Surfy

There are some tough calls to be made for sure, and a lot of moral judgments and ambiguity. Personally I keep a few guidelines in mind:

- Just being a decent person. Making sure that I'm not acting entitled. Being aware of different norms and being accommodating of that. Just basic stuff.

- Not engaging in voluntourism, i.e. volunteerism that is more of a burden than a help. If I want to help, I donate to an organization instead.

- Not supporting services which rely on the commodification of animals. More often than not, these animals are being mistreated, and this treatment is often deliberately hidden from clients and thus even more difficult to identify. No animal exists for my personal pleasure and entertainment, and I don't need to be supporting that.

- To the greatest extent possible, not supporting businesses which engage in human rights violations or the commodification of people/cultures. Indigenous cultures in particular tend to be commodified for tourists. Sex tourism is an obvious one to avoid. Anything that turns people and their lives into zoo animals or objects, or that directly endangers them for my benefit, is something that I have no business supporting.

- Being aware of environmental impacts. By far the easiest way to do that is to limit meat consumption and to minimize travel by plane, especially short haul flights (the train is better anyway). Those two things have a far bigger impact than anything else I could do, and I don't need to go too far out of my way for them.

The "boycotting countries" issue is a minefield in and of itself. It's often a bigger statement to go/not go somewhere when something is escalating and in the news, such as going to Russia right now, or going to Myanmar last year. Ultimately though, visiting a country does not equate to an endorsement, and it's nearly impossible to avoid indirectly supporting some forms of oppression, even when you aren't travelling. There are also marginal benefits your presence might bring, as is generally the case when there's more interaction in the world. All in all though, I'm not generally of the boycott mindset.

There's a lot of sense in your post and it covers pretty much my take on the subject (although presented more concisely than I've ever done, even to myself). Environmental impact is a particularly tricky one though as what is practical and what is sensible don't always meet in the middle. A case in point - a couple of weeks ago my son and his family had to travel from Grenoble in France to Copenhagen. A flight would have taken slightly over an hour (in the air anyway). Being environmentally conscious they decided to go by train. It took over 30hrs, three changes and a load of hanging around on station platforms. The sleeper reservation they had booked for the section through Germany was cancelled for reasons they still don't understand and they spent the night trying to sleep on the floor - with a 1yr old. I agree we need to be more aware of what impact our travel plans have on the environment but I'm not sure the carbon they saved was worth that experience.

As motorcycle travellers I can't really see that any amount of awareness makes up for the fact that we are basically on extended holidays only made possible by burning petrol. But the way I look at it, you can't have it all.

True, though that makes it even more important we make positive changes in other parts of our life to balance the impact.

A slightly different task on it is that your environmental impact whilst travelling is probably going to be less than if you were staying home. So:

1. The food you eat probably has been grown closer to where you have eaten it than when you were at home
2. If you sleep in a tent then you heating will be zero compared to the heating you would have had on at home - obviously more so in winter but as there is a tendency to ensure that you aren’t travelling through an area in it’s winter season then the further you travel from home the lower your relative carbon footprint
3. You are likely to be using a lower consumption vehicle than when at home and that balances off the extended mileages
4. Your opportunity to use equipment that requires power is significantly reduced when travelling compared to being at home

Now, whilst I am not saying that you should go green by going travelling, I strongly suspect that by travelling you may actually be doing less harm to the environment than if you stayed at home.

The next bit is possibly the most contentious part - remember that one of the worst things that you can do in terms of carbon footprint is to have children. The answer is, therefore, to travel but by push bike as the pressure from the saddle has been proven to lower the sperm count so lowering the chances of reproducing and lower carbon footprint whilst still seeing the world.:innocent:

Bunch of hippies the lot of you :devil2:

By this measure the most environmentally friendly transcontinental travellers were Ghengis Khan's lads. Ate locally, reduced the carbon boot prints of just about everyone they met (permanently), barely touched fossil fuels.

Simple truth, the planet cannot support 8 billion ACU's and Ford V8 pick-ups and humans do not collaborate outside their social groups. The other 7 billion people who are living in mud huts sure as **** aren't going to step aside while we wring our hands and decide between a Tesla and a bicycle made in a brown coal powered factory though, they'll be grabbing the first ACU they can. The human race is going to breed itself into oblivion and the survivors of the resource wars will just start the process again.

Go enjoy the world as it is, spread a little happiness , you won't change the outcome.

Andy

Agreed, except we can take steps to reduce our impact, we can reduce our carbon footprint and we can still travel. Part of the environmental debate is ensuring that we stop burning fossil fuels indiscriminately - and we can relatively easily - we just need to decide to. This is a societal decision and people will need to accept that there are going to be changes - there will be industries that disappear, new industries and those that adapt to the new energy sources.

As individuals we need to as well as the costs of heating our homes is going through the roof - hopefully not due to lack of insulation. It is estimated that 25% of UK energy consumption is domestic heating lighting etc (excluding transportation) - controlling that will help control bills for individuals. That is why it is important that new houses integrate energy saving and generation technologies at the outset - so have solar panels for electricity and hot water, well insulated, use rainfall to flush toilets etc - all can be built in at little or no extra cost but they make a massive difference to the running cost and environmental impact of the house.

The same applies to new industrial buildings they should have, as a matter of course, have solar panels so that they generate electricity and feed the grid - it is not rocket science but the way some politicians speak you would think that you are asking the home owner to wear a hair shirt - how those politicians must have reacted when people decided that having a roof on a house was a good idea would be interesting to know.

Yes, there will be changes over a relatively short period of time but the alternative is even less rosy.

You're right Andy. The next bike co to bring out a V8 gets my business. :rofl:

I dont know, if the use of solar in the UK really helps, compared to use them in an latitude area with more sun.

To build a solar panel, to recycle them after 12 years (hopefully, currently they did end in the regular trash bin) - use also a lot of energy.

The whole discussion about Greta and the world who needs less CO2... I just remember about the forest dieback and the acid rain in the 80`s. We children was so anojed about, had bad dreams about the end of the world....

I`m not shure, how the people will discuss the C02 issue in 2050..

We are able to transplant organs, but we still didnt cant say how the weather will be in 15 days or if the next step will be a heat /ice age timeframe.


Wise words!

Surfy