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Extended RTW with family questions
Howdy
Any and all advice / thoughts / experiences welcome on this as my brain hurts... Sorry for the long story but it should cover whats going on in my brain. In three years I am in a position to head off with my wife and two teenage daughters to see the world while we homeschool them and the plan is to head off around our home Australia for about six months then head over to Sth Korea (3 months) and then Japan for six months. From there over to Vlad, a quick run over to Mongolia and then explore the stans / Europe etc for a year then back to Japan for another six months and then off somewhere else maybe. Happy to stay in one spot / town for week or weeks while the girls study and experience the area. Camping is not an option sadly. So no actual timeline or set in stone other than spending time in Japan building my Japanese language as we plan to live there for a longer period when I retire. Heres where I get confused with options. Expedition Style Truck 4wd dual cab truck (fuso etc) with a camper body. Pros - self contained and self sufficient - go most places within reason - reliable old school technology (generally) - provides accommodation Cons - bloody big - expensive to ship as its a 40ft hicube or RORO - carnet needed - still a bit squishy for the four of us as the dual cab eats into the body (could go to a 2wd one which is lower and can have a longer body on it) Toyota Coaster / Mitsubishi Rosa Converted bus Pros - heaps of room for all four (girls can have a pair of bunks at the back) - low ground clearance and rear overhang. - still huuuge but not as intimidating - reliable old school - self contained self sufficient - provides accommodation Cons - Would still need 40ft hicube or RORO (not securable from theft) - Only RWD but could fit a locker (maybe a Sprinter / Crafter van is an option too) 4WD Vehicle probably VW Transporter 4Motion dual cab Pros - Normal container - Smaller and more nimble - 4wd ability Cons - Cant sleep in it - requires paid accommodation No vehicle - backpacks and Shanks's Pony Pros - zero shipping costs - various accomodations - may feel a bit more settled if in our house (AirBnB etc) for longer periods - not tied down by a vehicle Cons - Cost of accommodation (renting our place while away would offset this) - Transport costs (some places may be able to buy a cheap car in county) - no home to speak of for a sense of place The main shipping costs are Australia to Korea or Japan return and I have factored in $12500 aud for that. But what if we decide to go to Nth America will shipping costs blow the budget and make it unaffordable?. So thats kinda where my mind is at. The romantic Homer whispers the Lawrence of Arabia Expedition Truck The practical Homer whispers a coaster and accept its limitations The sensible Homer thinks the normal sized 4wd makes sense The 'I dont want the hassle of the car' Homer thinks a car is just a hassle. Your thoughts? |
Maybe just buy a «normal» campervan/RV.
I have been following this american family (man and wife + 2 children) on Youtube (a little on and off) travelling around Europe in average campervan/RV - and they have been all over Europe with this vehicle and travelling for 5 years. Seem to work well for them…. https://youtu.be/qqzJZDFb1q8 Maybe it would work for you guys too…. |
As a person who not only has done a bit of overlanding on both two and four wheels, but one who is into sailing - I have become familiar with the amenities needed for a a family to stay happy with the means of transport and accommodation.
Amenities such as "climate control" is most paramount and also the most challenging to solve. As you know, a vehicle that is not running or connected to the grid (running fans, A/C or heat) can under many conditions become unbearable in just a few minutes after having turned off the ignition. Even on a sail yacht, which is far more climate friendly to begin with, and with all its carrying capacity - the completely off grid solutions for climate control still becomes a very costly and difficult to solve great - especially in dealing with heat and humidity. In a car/truck/van/bus - this becomes both exponentially more challenging and more expensive to install, as well as far more cumbersome solutions to live with. Sometimes, a simple tent is the best solution. As such, I would not even contemplate being off grid all the time with a vehicle, but rather equip it in such a fashion where I would only camp off the grid under close to ideal conditions. The rest of the time I would either stay in hotels or camp grounds with all amenities - including an electrical outlet I could hook the car up to. Or, I would just forgo the whole camper vehicle approach all together and just take a spacious 4x4, a tent, and very basic camping gear. As for choice of vehicles. Any vehicle is "capable" of traversing every single country on the planet - but not all are equally "suitable". For me, only having two wheel drive, or low ground clearance, would be a definite no go. Having ABS, traction control and airbags would be a must for me personally. Size matters when it comes to both comfort and safety. Other than that - my focus would be on something with low mileage and good condition, that also has a decent reputation for reliability and ease and expense of maintenance. I would not be so much concerned about fuel efficiency. With a group travelling together - in the grand scheme of things, an extra 50% or so in fuel consumption, won't amount to much. I wouldn't know, but is it really that much expensive to ship a large vehicle as a smaller vehicle - presupposing we are talking about the same size shipping container? I would assume not if you had to pay for a full size container regardless? Personally I would have gone for a converted SUV or van (4x4) - complete with roof mounted tent, a tent for the side of the vehicle, etc. The dream for me is of course a large expedition vehicle, like a Unimog or some other large off road capable truck. In the end though, a van or a SUV converted for camping will probably be more practical, enjoyable and safer - most of the time. The list of suitable vehicles is in my opinion very long - as long as you are ok with also not always camping off the grid. I have traversed Australia living out of an old station wagon. I've traversed much of Africa several times - on both motorbikes and 4x4. I've crossed Europe many times with simple sedans, much of the US as well. With a tent and some simple camping gear - not once have I felt it a "must have" to have an RV or expedition type vehicle. I have also travelled with such vehicles, and caravans as well - but I think that the "extras" they provide are greatly overrated - much of the time. I prefer to book cheap accommodation or pitch a tent more often than I prefer dealing with all the draw backs of living within the confines of a vehicle. I think a vehicle that is suited for driving and hauling gear between accommodation locations is far more enjoyable than a vehicle meant for living in. When travelling I prefer to have someone else cook most of my warm meals, and usually only make my cold meals myself. I therefore have no needs for refrigeration, having great amenities and equipment for both advanced cooking and extensive dish washing, including carrying extensive amounts of water and extra fuel, etc. I also prefer not to have to deal with waste disposal from a toilet, or to deal with all the hassles that showering out of a vehicle entails. If nature calls in the bush - I bring a roll and a shovel if nature calls, I swim in a lake or the ocean when I get sweaty, and do any cooking over an open fire, and sleep under the open sky or in a tent. I have enough clothes that I don't have to do laundry until I get to a place with a sink with hot water. I get my coffee at the closest gas station, and my dinner at some inexpensive hole in the wall. The rest of the time - for all my other needs - I stay on grid! In short - sometimes "less is more". |
It definitely sounds like quite the adventure.
Are you worried about pulling your daughters out of high school right before college? I studied abroad in Australia and was unpleasantly surprised by how hard Australian university classes were. I think this would be a great life experience for your daughters, but just realize that you will probably be putting them at a disadvantage in Computer, Math, and Science courses. Your daughters are going to become angry with you down the road if they believe that you pulling them out of high school was what set them up for failure in university. My advice is to do multiple summer family trips of a similar nature and once your daughters are in college, do a trip like this with the wife. |
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The opportunities that the travelling will give them to see the world are something that they will, in all probability, thank you for in years to come. |
Thanks
Hi all
Sorry for not replying to everyone’s replies - forgot to check. :) Gatogato thanks for your thoughts/concerns re school / university. Definitely a big consideration and something I have given a lot of thought to. I would agree with you 100% if the girls were interested in STEM (Science, Technology, Engineering and Math). (This may be a little long winded but its probably the only way to explain it and also may be of interest to others in a similar position :) ) We have two older sons and their experiences factor into my thinking. Our oldest son is 26 and is a doctor of electrical engineering in power systems and transmission. He did primarily STEM and achieved an ATAR of 93 in his final year. I think he needed an ATAR of 76 to get in to engineering. For him, finishing high school with a good result was critical. Second son is 19 and has just finished his first year of an arts degree in politics and international relations. He did non STEM subjects, primarily humanities, and achieved a 72 ATAR. Here is where Australia has done something that really is BS. Because he did non STEM subjects his final score was actually lowered as there is a penalty for not doing the STEM ones. All his friends who did humanities had the same outcome. His ATAR is enough to get him into his arts degree, but here is the silly part. You can start studying humanities and non STEM subjects at university via open universities from the age of 16 without an ATAR. So our now 19yo could have actually started studying his degree three years ago and would be studying his third year of his degree now, not his first. In effect, he wasted at least two years at high school trying to get an ATAR when it isn’t needed. I can only speak to the two high schools our boys went to, but there is something fundamentally dysfunctional with our schooling system ATM. Virtually everyone, students, teachers, parents, are not happy. Our oldest daughter, now almost 15, wants to be a lawyer so she can stay at high school and try to get a high enough ATAR to enter university to do a law degree. She can also start studying a diploma in paralegal studies through open universities instead of doing year 10 or higher, and this then enables automatic entry into a law degree. In reality, because the diploma is eight subjects and for a high school aged student two subjects per semester should be achievable, by the end of what would normally be high school, she will already have a diploma, which counts towards 1/3 of the degree and auto entry. No ATAR needed. Even if we dont go OS, our oldest daughter will probably start the diploma in year 10, and do school part time. Or she may simply start an arts degree while we travel. Our younger daughter has mild ADHD and struggles to fit into primary school socially, though she is quite smart and is into STEM. How we approach her schooling is probably going to be a harder road than I care to think, as it is a struggle. Cheers Homer beer |
An interesting assumption that any alternative to getting thru university in the least possible time or at the youngest possible age is by definition a “waste.” That may well be true in some cases, but it’s definitely not in others. There is value in education—make that, “there *should* be value in education”—aside from whether it gets you into a certain program, career, lifestyle, income bracket, or whatever else.
Of course I have no clue how the Australian system works, but I’m assuming the above holds true in your country as it does in mine. |
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The difficulty with the current Australian system, at least in my state, is there is virtually no correlation between the school curriculum and university - the two are are two different worlds, however the final two years of high school are viewed as preparatory for university. That is virtually its total focus. IF the experience, both socially and educationally, was a positive experience I would support doing those extra years 100%. But as I mentioned, there is something not quite right with our education system here atm. My kids are very switched on when it comes to education, but none are having, or have recently, had good experiences with it. Cheers and thanks Homer |
Well, I think you’re missing my point entirely, but that’s as likely my fault as yours.
Regardless of the stated academic goals of high school or college (or pre-school, middle school, graduate school…), a LOT of the value is actually in other realms, unrelated to academics. I’m thinking mainly of socialization—for better or worse—plus developing work habits, learning to be productive in groups, and forming the networks of friends and peers which tend to shape much of later life. Any smart kid, presumably including yours, can accelerate to at least 300 or 400% of normal high school pacing once they get motivated. The difficulty is not about learning the subject matter—it’s more about growing up. I’ve seen 15 year-old kids in college, and many (I was going to say most, but I’m trying to understate my case) remain 15 developmentally despite verging on 20 intellectually. That’s not necessarily a healthy thing for them. I’m also drawing on my own experience—accelerated to the point where I was perpetually socially immature until I took a couple of decades off—and that of my parents, who were accelerated 2 and 3 years respectively, displayed their immaturity in their disastrous marriage, and never quite managed to figure things out. They, at least, were very good students even while much younger than the other students, proving that there’s more to life than being smart and jump-starting a career. Of course there are exceptions—lots of them. I hope I’ve clarified what I meant to some extent, but in any case I’ll bow out of your thread, which originally was about something else. Besides, I don’t want to give the impression that I’ve anything nice to say about standard secondary educational systems, about which I can rant angrily and incoherently for hours on end. |
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A comment perhaps based on my misunderstanding re "4WD Vehicle probably VW Transporter 4Motion dual cab...Cant sleep in it - requires paid accommodation ".
You can sleep in any reasonable sized 4x4 vehicle, or at least we have done so on long(ish) trips with no problems. OP's situation is such that although 4 people can't realistically sleep in such a vehicle, 2 can, and a RTT provides for the other two. Alternatively a ground tent would work, although I suspect that a RTT will be a more attractive option. Thought #2 - you can buy two 4x4 vehicles for the price of most "Expedition Style Trucks" so you could do this and have the advantage of a back-up vehicle (each for the other) as well as being able to sleep inside each. YOu'd need a 40 ft container and not a 20 ft container, however the marginal cost compared with a container capable or handling the truck is not much. PS: I don't envisage Lawrence of Arabia in a truck - which brings me to the last thought - 8 camels - four to ride and four for kit... |
Speaking as someone who was once a teenage girl I can safely say the best choice of vehicle / travel will be whatever allows private space and access to a shower. Also, having internet access for keeping up with friends would be important.
I was out the door at 16 and subsequently moved around a lot, at that time I dreamed of being able to just live in one place and have stability, though I know not all teenagers are like that. |
Hi y’all
So we have decided that the expedition / camper is off the list. The girls are a couple of years older now from when I first posted this in 2019 and will be three or a bit more by the time covid lets us start. As turbo suggests, teenage girls need space and that would not be likely in such a vehicle unless its one of those giant six wheel things that are too heavy for my liking. So it is down to a vehicle that is primarily for transport or just backpacking. Either way we intend to use airbnb style places for much of the time, using monthly bookings to force me into staying in one spot and experiencing as much as we can. I have a habit of pushing on and I know that we miss a lot of good stuff. Staying in airbnb’s will also give the girls some space to retreat to, as well as us. Due to covid we have homeschooled the girls on and off over the past two years, as well as a German international student who was with us for six months at the beginning of the pandemic, and coped with it well. The older girls were finished their school work over about 3-4hrs which left the afternoon for other activities. I think we will try and replicate this as we go. I have another 12 months before we can go I think, I have a major surgery to attend to so I am kinda thinking that I might start preparing a 4wd over the next months so that it is set up. Can use it in the meantime now that our country is opening up a bit and as a shakedown. I can always leave it here and head off backpacking first, we do want to visit asia / Japan / S Korea, and then head back and grab it if we want it. Anyways, thanks for your input. |
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