Large petrol tanks
 

Do you rally need a 35 ltr tank on a motorbike ?
1 yes if your going around the world.
2 or you could just buy 2 plastic cans and use them when needed
3 but for most of us a normal tank is just fine aprox 15/ 20 ltr depending on your miles per gallon !.............:scooter:

Need - no, Nice to have - yes, Expensive - yes, Worth the price - probably not, as they're usually ridiculously expensive. You can always get something to carry fuel in temporarily. In fact at a couple of places where it's a long ways to the next fuel, locals sit at the side of the road with Coke bottles full of fuel.
My own experience with a 40 litre tank was that it was a nice to have, a real luxury not to have to think about fuel - but you could also get lazy.... We only NEEDED it once, in Nicaragua, when it was a three day wait to get a permit to get in the 3 day line to get the fuel. We ended up riding right through to Costa Rica, and literally coasted into the first gas station and stopped nicely at the pumps, bone dry. :)

I would say it is more about range and a minimum of 200 miles/320kms is enough in most parts of the world now with another 50miles/80km needed in a few other places.
Bikes are more economical now and those large tanks were needed on airhead BMWs which only did 50 mpg on a good day but some modern medium sized bikes can do 80 mpg.

As mentioned above - its about range, not about how many liters you get into the tank. On a Honda CT 125 Hunter Cub for example with a 1,4 US gallon tank/5,3 liter you will get a range of approx 350 kms. So no need for a 35 liter tank on that bike....:clap:

There are several things to consider when it comes to fuel capacity and range:

1. Where are you going to ride? What range do you need? In remote areas where gas stations are scarce, and sometimes even out of fuel? Try to do some research ahead.....

2. What range do you have? Remember that in some countries in the poorer parts of the world fuel sometimes is of lower quality than in the developed parts of the world. For example in Bolivia the fuel is (said to be) 85 octane RON. Which is approx 80 octane AKI as is the north american standards. In Indonesia the standard fuel is 88 octane RON, approx 82 octane AKI. And less octane number - the higher fuel consumption on modern EFI bikes at least. Carburated bikes might be different.

3. I wouldnt had gone anywhere without a fuel range of at least 300 kms!
A fuel range of 400 kms would actually be a minimum fuel range imo for a decent overland bike.
500 km fuel range - now were talkin.
600 km range and above - luxury!

4. As Grant mentioned above - the oversized tanks that are offered are often very highly priced. So that must also be taken into consideration.

5. I rode around the world with two 3,5 liter jerrycans attached to the rear of the side panniers. What a PITA! I have lost count over how many times I needed to reinforce the attachments of those jerrycans, and I lost a couple of those jerrycans too along the road! And that was with designated cans, designated mounts, designated straps etc etc. I wonder how it would work if one used something more amateurish stuff to carry outside gas in?
Imo fuel should be carried in the main gas tank. Carrying fuel outside the tank takes up space for other items such as water, spare parts, clothes, tools etc etc.
And as in my case - outside carried fuel cans tends to fall off. Maybe those rotopax cans work, but they still take up space for other potential stuff you would like to carry.

I ride a large thumper with a factory rear fuel tank.

Off road I really enjoy its low weight – 140-ish kg.
Easy to pick and ride aggressively on trails if desired.

On road I really do NOT enjoy its low relatively low weight.
Especially in windy conditions at freeway speeds its fatiguing to maintain position.
Heavier twins pass me all day – good for them.

To compromise I installed an additional front fuel tank.
My range is now double (600ish km), I have a built in backup fuel pump/tank, a 300 km reserve and best of all I can plan for added ballast as desired depending on the terrain I plan to ride.

For on road travel I fill the front tank to the brim and the bike riding manners are significantly improved at speed.
For off road I leave the front tank empty for improved agility.

IMHO the extra fuel tank makes my particular bike much more versatile in aspects beyond extended fuel range.

YMMV

One aspect to consider, I think, is the ratio of fuel range to butt range.

My current bike (Yamaha FZ-1S Fazer) is relatively thirsty, and has a smaller-than-average tank. On a long transit, I can get maybe 250 km out of it. Well, that's about as much time as I want to spend in a saddle anyway without an opportunity to get off the bike, stretch my legs, go to the bathroom, maybe have a drink of water.

On my last year's big trip, I rented a V-Strom 650 in New Zealand... it got me from central Auckland out to the Coromandel peninsula, did the full Coromandel loop, and back to just north of Auckland on a single tank - about 420 kilometers - of spirited riding, without anything extra! And that was a mix of spirited curve-carving, long highway transits, and fighting through traffic. On an upright bike with full panniers and topbox. I can't legitimately see a situation where I would ride more than that without needing to stop anyway.

On my Fazer on the other hand... well, my record I think is central Riga to central Tallinn - ~300+ kms, three urban traffic areas and a border (okay you don't actually have to stop at that border), in 3 hours 20 minutes, including two fuel stops! Don't do what I did. :)

So, I would say that on the rare occasion where you would need extra fuel capacity, you can always find a container - and throw it away once you get back to civilization.

A plastic 10L fuel container is, what, five euros in my local supermarket - and can be ratchet-strapped to a hardpoint on the bike. No need to carry jerry cans with you permanently.

That's more a centre of gravity thing in my experience - bikes that carry their weight up top are blown around much more than those that carry it low. A few years back I was riding through the Texas Panhandle with a friend on a late 90's Triumph - a bike with a high centre of gravity - in a strong crosswind. His bike was all over the place - 20 degree list and at times two carriageways widths to keep it straight, whereas mine - a Honda GoldWing - with all the weight low down didn't notice the wind at all.

Re big tanks - they're like part of an overlander's uniform. Nothing says 'the real deal' like a tank you can hardly see over. That plus soft panniers caked in an inch of mud and a laptop on the handlebars so you can blog as you ride. After all keeping the sponsors happy is your top priority :rofl:

I've had a couple of 600 singles with large tanks (still have one in fact) and while they're unwieldy (the 40L one on my XR600 in particular) they can give you peace of mind. It's all very well saying that you rarely have to do more than 200 miles between fuel stops but I'm uneasy heading off knowing there's no fuel for 200 miles with a fuel range of 220 miles. That doesn't have to be across a desert somewhere, it could be a cross country trip at night. I think I only ever filled the 40L tank completely to the top three times but they were times where range anxiety was an issue. Fuel stations can be shut or shut down or out of fuel. The capacity to get to the next one is a bit of a comfort blanket. At the other end of the scale the 9L tank on my 125 means a stop every 70-80 miles - just in case you can't find anywhere open later on. You're not heading out anywhere remote with a range like that.

That was really lucky as Susan would have been so hacked off having to push you sat on the bike to the next fuel station.:innocent:

The point is if you have a great fuel range you can stop anywhere you want. But if you have a short fuel range you have to stop and fill up some places even though you had a coffee and toilet break 20-30 minutes ago.

When riding through remote parts of Kazakhstan in a group of bikes - we once had approx 200 kms between gas stations. But upon arriving at that gas station it turned out it was out of fuel. Then we rode another 120 kms to the next gasstation and even that one was out of fuel. Then the riders of the bikes with a range of 350-375 kms started to become uneasy, and had to get overprised low quality fuel from a truck.

A 10 liter fuel container does not easily straps securely on to an already loaded bike when riding on gnarly gravel roads in remote parts of the world. It will be very prone to fall off and cause havoc.

I had a range of 450-500 km on my bike and to be honest I never needed to use fuel from the extra jerry can I had attached to the panniers. I actually used one of those cans for water, which came in very handy many times.

In some places in the world you know you will need the extra range. Although you may only need it a handful of times, you just might not know when and where that will be. You may carry extra fuel for thousands of kilometers before suddenly needing it in a place where intel has told you that availability won't be a problem.

In Senegal I suddenly found myself in a nation wide truckers strike - with no fuel being distributed to gas stations. The lines at the gas stations were very long, and growing every hour as more and more gas stations ran out, and more and more people were panic hoarding. I literally got the last drop filling up my 7 liter tank and my two 10 liter jerry cans, right at the boarder to guinea Bissau. Those in line behind me were out of luck as the country was now pretty much bone dry - I got the last drop in the country. If I was going in the other direction, I would have needed to resort to black markets at insane prices.

In Senegal my bike sputtered and coughed the last stretch to a gas station that had fuel, having expended my two jerry cans - this the last few gas stations were out of fuel.

I believe that had my main tank have been bigger, I would not have topped up as frequently, and likely have run out of fuel that one time in Zambia. With cans you too up your main tank more often rather than having to deal with the hassles of 6singvabd refilling cans.

I resorted to both jerry's frequently, but only once have & been close to run out.

If it was an option for the bike I had, I would gladly have spent the money for a larger tank - and teach myself to top up frequently. Cans are a hassle in more ways than one.

I had a 450 mile tank on an F650 in the noughties. Nice to have, but mostly just makes you slack at filling up. Price then was fine when you consider how much you can sell them for.

Today with FI increasing range on bikes that have normal sized tanks and the hassle of fitting pumps into big tanks I wouldn't bother.

Andy

I agree with this 100% but would like to add that when you go to places where those extra 80km just maybe might be required, that you get in the habit of topping up your main tank often (30-50%). The fuel availability of the last 1000 km may be a poor predictor of fuel availability for the next 100km.

But imagine what a great story you would have to tell if you'd been stuck in Nicaragua with no fuel! :thumbup:

I bought my 790 with the specific intention of riding through Siberia and the Stans, and my desktop research said there were stretches of over 400 kms with no fuel. The 790 is pretty economical and with a 20L tank will easily beat 400 kms (I think I did about 450 kms on one tankful in Italy in 2019). I don't really want to fall about with auxiliary tanks or huge top heavy monsters so the stock range should be adequate. That said with belt and braces in mind I will also be taking a 6.7 L Rotopax ;)

As someone who is currently planning a RTW trip, the size of the gas tank is an important consideration for me. My goal is to have a min 500 KM range - not because there's not enough gas stations, but because of numerous mentioned accounts above. Anybody who's ridden distance has experienced that nagging insecurity of being in parts unknown and not knowing if you'll make it to the next gas station - and if there will be gas there. Then mentally doing the calculations to see how much further you've got before running out - and looking at the sky and seeing the weather locking in. Or waking up in a camp site far off the beaten track hoping that you make it to the next station....

Having to stop vs deciding to stop are two different things, and I want that flexibility. And we've all also experienced that gas station where we wished we coulda kept going....

One thing I haven't noticed being addressed above: topping off from external fuel tanks--whether coke bottles, plastic fuel cans with spouts, or bladders--is not always a simple thing. I learned this to my dismay on one of the very few occasions when my ~20 liter tank wasn't sufficient (a series of towns without fuel in Patagonia); decanting in 100+ kph winds left me, the bike, and the surrounding ground covered with gasoline even though I'd pulled in behind a building for shielding.

On another occasion (dusk combined with miscalculations driving over a remote 15,000 ft pass in the Andes) I ran out of gas at a low spot in the road. Of course I was carrying extra fuel, but the real problem was that I'd busted my clutch cable and didn't have a spare because I'd previously busted my spare. Getting the bike underway was quite a project in itself, but at least I didn't have to spend the night out in the cold.

On both occasions better planning would have saved me some trouble, but needing to plan better can be a real source of stress.

yes if your going round the world ......... big tank ........... but for 99% of us a standard tank is ok ?

Absolutely!! Even for RTW, it's highly debatable. You will only need it a couple of times, is it worth the price? Is the ease of not having to pay attention to your fuel worth the price? And remember, even with the big tank, you CAN run out because you forgot to fill up because you do it so seldom!!

We make the SAFARI TANKS here in Australia, most of the time you wouldn't need the capacity (normal roads) but if your going 'bush' its pretty much essential or if you're Dakar type racing (flat out).

Mezo.

Hello
Topics on RTW or other longer rides are the reason to look into this forum.:thumbup1:


Yes, yes and yes beer

With a fuel gauge I run only once out of gas, with the old bikes several times.
All within civilisation, just didn't think about going to the gasstation right away when I turned the lever to the reseve.:(

On my XT660Z I have 24l of gas if I really fill it up.
That gives me up to 500km with my average fuel consumbtion but I plan with less.
To me, that is the minimum every bike should have, not only travel bikes.

On my RTW I had additional jerry cans mounted with a tension set on the front of the panniers on the footpegs of the back seat.
Lost only one 5l jerry can, then secured them with additional rope.
I had in northamerika and mexico 2x5l, southamerika 2x2gal, Australia 1x5l + 2x10l water, asia-mongolia-russia none.

The longest route between gas stations was 550km in Bolivia, lagoon route. If I'm going on a route like this where I don't know if I can make it, I like to take more gas so I could turn if it gets to difficult for me.
Also if between point A and B is a difficult rivercrossing just before point B, I calculate the total distance with the turn back to point A.

In Bolivia it was nice to have those jerry cans when they told me at the gas station that they can't sell gas here to foreigners.

Argentina with dry gas stations...

In Chile on the carratera I was glad I had filled up the jerry cans, although not necessary from the distances, but when they had closed the area with road blocks, all the gas stations went dry.
I had enough gas to go to Coyhaique to wait there for the gas instead at some little gas station where they sold only biscuits.

Sadly today there are only very few bikes in europe (euroX regulations) with large gas tanks.
I will never understand why they made the new T7 with such a joke of 16l. doh


sushi


P.S.
Before you push your bike, check the gas bottle from your stove. :mchappy:

OK, I didn’t know that there were Euro regs limiting the size of fuel tanks - can you point me to them so I can read up on them please?

Ha ha, been there, done that. With some of the opaque big tanks you need a torch to see how much is down there. If you don't have one handy the workaround is to shake it, listen to the sloshing sound and make a guess. Sometimes you get the guess wrong ...

A lot of the plastic ones are translucent so you can see the fuel level inside. I've marked mine up on the outside in 5L amounts with a black marker and that helps. The alternative is to plumb in some clear plastic tubing at the bottom - either via drilling a hole and a spigot or a T from the petrol tap, and run it up the outside so you can see the level in the tube (early Japanese road bikes used to do it as a crude fuel gauge).

I have not heard of any regs about size but some countries particularly Germany have regs about approval, if a 25 litre Acerbis is approved for an XL650 but not a DR650 that it happens to fit you are not allowed to use it whereas here in freedomsville UK we can do whatever we want to our bikes and as long as it is safe it is not a problem.

PS I have no idea whther an XL650 tank fits a DR650 I was just using that as an example.

Hello


The regulations regarding emissions, therefore a lot of bikes are not available.
DR650, KLR650 etc.


sushi

?c?australia is a BIG place ! but most of the popultion live where petrol stations are in most towns!

I know this (i live here) and currently doing my second lap.

I know this also, like i said "if you're going bush" like most of the 'population' doesn't do.

Mezo.

The German TUV model of modification passports is a key element of European policy. There is no point mandating teflon coated tyres to reduce dust pollution or diverter valves so no air goes through the engine when we are allowed to bin them as soon as we get the bike home. The European model also loves how easy it is to enforce when they basically ban anything that isn't on the manufacturers list (the massive price hikes that result are for your own good of course, although giving up personal transport all together would be better ). Chipping key components is coming, so you'd have to dig the chip out of the OE tank and fit it into the safari one. There is little sign of anyone trying to stop this direction within the EU.

It is too early to tell if the UK will avoid this. There is hope, we design many more components than we build vehicles and what we do build are often bespoke and for non-EU markets. There is risk because the importers are still generally grouped geographically and aren't ready to do their own work with VCA beyond rubber stamping what they are sent from European HQ's. If you want choice, buy from the grey importers and more flexible brand importers and hope they get the message.

Andy

What's driving this Andy? Is it simply a reflection of national stereotypes, a sort of Teutonic 'obay the rules' approach that, as the Germans are in the automotive sector driving seat, has now expanded out to become European policy? Or are there some other factors in play here - the foothills of a push to get us all into electric vehicles comes to mind?

Technical advances do seem to find their way into legislation via a combination of 'moral outrage' and behind the scenes lobbying - speed cameras for example. Are we talking about 'now that we've got the ability to chip everything and the logistics to track the chips, we'll get them made mandatory and that'll give us a competitive advantage. It'll shut out the cheap Chinese spares industry and we can sell it as a 'safety' advance.'

Euro 5, for all its 'save the planet' P.R complete with videos of coughing children playing in a fog of exhaust smoke, does seem to be almost unnecessary given how quickly the I.C. engine is being dumped. Looking at how many bikes are being withdrawn from sale because of its requirements it looks more like a motorcycle Covid crisis than anything. The few survivors we'll be left with will undoubtedly be packed to the gills with anti tamper technology to ensure the emission levels are kept to. Backed up with MOT checkable microchips no doubt. And that looks like where we came in.

I'm not aware of any movement to microchip wine bottles to stop you making lamps or anything out of them - the stereotypically French area of expertise.

That's pretty much it. The environmental, protectionist and safety lobbys are getting together to run a very technocratic process in a direction they want to go.

Andy

Okay, first of all - policies across the EU can be very different. There are things you can do in one EU country, that you can't do in another. Levels of modification on private vehicles, strictness of technical tests, etc. With cars for example, there are some EU countries where it is much easier to register an American-market or Japanese-market car than in others.

Second of all - for Germany, part of it is the "obey the rules" mindset, but it's not in isolation. Making sure everyone obeys the rules - and all the cars, and bits on those cars, are in provably good technical order - is what lets Germany have no-speed-limit autobahns.

You might look at an DR650 tank and see that it more or less fits an XL650 - and you can go ahead and fit it. But you can't know if there is some difference in the kinds of bolts or washers, or vibrations in the mounting points, that are different between the two, and make the fitment a risk at high speeds, or in extreme situations. Oh, and if the tank really does work well for both models? Then the manufacturer can just certify it for both models, in the same way that a single oil filter is certified to work on almost any car.

This is an extremely convenient talking point to espouse while you are *already* experiencing the benefits of Euro 5, a.k.a. being able to breathe in a town center.

But yes, of course, the rules should not apply *to you*, because you are special.

An oil filter is not a type approved item and manufacturers don't approve anything. Self certification is the US model.

The manufacturer makes the vehicle and must then present it to a technical authority. VCA in the UK, RDW in the Netherlands, one of the TUV's in Germany etc. They assess the vehicle for compliance against their interpretation of the EU and national standards. This allows for some variation, the Spanish for example being much faster and less picky and TUV Wolfsburg being the place to go for emissions checks :oops2:

An oil filter would never be failed as a stand alone item. The vehicle might be failed if something risked cutting open the filter or the function caused emissions or noise problems.

A parts supplier mostly has no requirement to do any approval, you can fit a Chinese bean can stuffed with rags instead of that oil filter in most EU countries . A inspection might fail it for leaks or emissions, but if knock offs work you can use them . On some products like tyres and brake linings you have to do testing to show you meet the same criteria as the OE fit, a component approval . The component manufacturer does this, usually by back to back testing. Most vehicles are type approved with two or more of these in case a supplier burns down. Mostly the controls are on advertising descriptions , you can offer can-stuffed-with-rags legally but not Honda oil filter.

Where the EU is heading is stopping this and not letting you legally fit the Chinese rubbish oil filter regardless of if yours happens to work.

Why would BMW help you fit Michelin tyres at £60 a go when its then illegal to fit anything except the Conti's they or Continental themselves only have available at £200 each? The chip in the tyre is coded to the TPMS and that must work. Intellectual property rights reinforce their right to refuse to hand over the chip code to Michelin. A monopoly on spares is created. BMW isn't going to do the work to approve an extra knobbly set of tyres for a handful of buyers who want to go off road.

Andy

We've had this conversation before, and I will say it again: the EU is the one that's actually preventing monopolies like that.

Travelling from the UK to Australia using a standard-tanked R100 BMW we ran out of fuel just once - slap bang in the middle of the biggest railway level crossing I've ever seen, near the Hooghly railway staion in the middle of Calcutta!

We did carry a couple of 5 litre jerry-jugs, (later replaced with a couple of 5 litre wine bags) for the long runs but other than down the Stuart highway they were rarely filled. Oh, that reminds me: We ran out of fuel along there too, but SOP was that the petrol stove always got refilled after use and emptying that back into the tank was just enough to make the 2-3 miles remaining to the next roadhouse; as with you in CR, it spluttered as we turned onto the forecourt and a promptly engaged clutch allowed us to roll up to the pump.

My laser printer knows when I have a generic cartridge in but it still works. If they were allowed to switch off the printer I suspect that they would as they make their money from selling the replacement cartridges rather than the printer. I suspect that the same is true if automotive industry - the EU is stopping them exploiting their position.

Isn't that what happened with some inkjet printers about 10yrs or so ago - they chipped the cartridges to stop you using either aftermarket ones or refilling your own. How did that work out?

That's a fair assessment.. there isn't that many places where you need 250mi+ range. Still IMO 701LR got it right. For one, even if gas available there could be issues with quality, and on some remote vistas you not only need fuel to get there, but also need to carry extra to be able to turn back at any point.

Good result then. :thumbup1: Been a while since I had to buy any.

Ink cartridges aren't safety items.

Andy

Clearly you have never seen my wife when the printer stops printing. That is a safety item.:D