You really want a Dakar bike? :innocent:
The 450 class are great off road (if set up right) but not GREAT on long paved roads and not many I've seen would be ideal travel bikes. Good, but not ideal.

The old Suzuki DRZ400S is still, IMO, probably the best of the bunch despite its old design. Suzuki reliability, not bad for luggage, simple to work on, inexpensive.

Others may argue for CCM, KTM 450, Husky 450 or BMW 450, I contend NONE are as good as the trusty old DRZ400S for traveling.

Also, don't forget the "other" middle weight bikes. The 650 class. Better highway ride, roomy and enough HP to cart luggage over 5K meters, true high speed cruising possible. (70 to 80 MPH) OK, but not great fuel economy. Great back road scratcher ... quite impressive off road if you do the proper mods to make them more off road worthy.

Many good bikes in the Mid size class: KLR650, XR650L, DR650, KTM 690, BMW Sertao or F650,
505 Husky, XT600 Yam, XT660 Tenere'. Of course, the DR650 is far and away the best of bunch for travel. :D:D:D (Yes, I own one! :rofl:)
bier

I think you're dead on here ... and I also feel the new Honda is going to be a really good bike. Too much at stake for Honda to screw this up. Legacy!

I'd call the AT (If I'm even close in my predictions) as more like a 70/30 bike.
I think with some careful and well considered set up, it will ROCK off road.
So, if you want more off road ability from the bike it should be there to unlock with some changes.

It will be plenty smooth and fast ... and my guess? FUN! bier

well, for sure better then any 250cc and that was the meaning of my post. 660cc is too heavy already so imo 4500cc is the holly grail here. I believe we'll see that class soon to be very popular again once 1000cc bikes won't sell well as expected.

The obsession with capacity is its own problem. 60 HP in a 100 Kg bike is race performance but race service requirements and reliability. 80 HP in a 250 Kg bike is touring technology, hence you know about it when trying for MX track use. With new materials, electronic etc. 50 HP from 400 to 600cc in a 170 kilo bike may well be the compromise, but the demand is tiny, hence we get race engines like the one CCM are detuning to meet the perceived capacity requirement. There will be sleeved down monsters, over worked race tech and old 400 cc tax dodger designs given a tune up if all you demand is the same capacity as Dakar bikes.

What you want is the lightest 45 HP bike with a 10000 mile service interval they can design today.

Andy

Given its legacy, would anyone actually recommend taking the new AT on a ADV ride through Africa?

assuming you won't drop it yes :thumbup1:
but not without the winch...

https://www.warn.com/adventuretourin...reTouring1.jpg

The AT I am talking about was not a dummy bike but a dealer riding demo! :)

Agree. I may do Africa on an AT but it will certainly limit your options. For me due to riding skills! With respect to getting it into the hotel lobby, I dont think taking the AT into a lobby through the front door will be much more difficult than say a DRZ400( ;) ). It is not a GS1200 Adventure rinoceros sized bike. Size wize (width) the AT looks a lot like the XT660Z.

I get a kick out of people pretending that a 650 bike loaded down is somehow easy to get out of a mudhole or another bad predicament, it is not.

Your absolute best recourse is to avoid most of the pitfalls I see ADV riders falling into, regardless of bike.

Ride AROUND mud holes, if it requires getting off your bike and doing a little walking, do it. Same goes for soft sand and most other obstacles. I rarely see photographs of stuck bikes that cannot be avoided.


In the end, ride what you got, I wonder how many trips are ruined by people obsessing on finding the perfect ADV bike?

I think the greatest example of riding the last bike I would ever dream of riding RTW is Peter and Kay Forwood on their bagger Hog. Yet they traversed every single country on the planet on that behemoth.

Sjaak Luccassan has circumvented the world twice on sport bikes.

Of course the Legendary Sanders and his RTW on R1 Sportbikes how many times?

Ol Ray Git and his wife circumvented the world on a Tenere.

The KLR was mine, I had pulled off the road, put my foot down and the bank gave way, that was an absolute bear to get back up. Keep in mind I was raised on a ranch and can lift some crazy weight, it was everything I could do in that position to get it up without unloading it (the smart thing to do).

The bottom is Peter and Kay

with Sjaak and his R1

I must have done about 100 miles of gravel on this beast on my last trip. Can't say it was fun, but we both survived.

I feel like the Africa Twin will handle gravel roads better though! :)

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5602/...dd8c06e3_h.jpg

OK so got to play with the new At at my local dealer today. This is a cracking looking bike in white, Def a head turner.
The dash is easy to read and navigate something triumph and ducati could learn from. The switches are easy to reach with your thumbs and unlike triumph and ducati well made and robust.
It will be a sod to keep clean though. It will need some sort of locking nut device for the tool kit as this is on the side of the bike being accessed by an Allen key.
The build quality looks good close up, if they get the reliability right then I can see it selling like hot cakes. Went next door and then had a close look at a ktm 1050, sorry no contest :oops2:
Obviously a test ride is needed but this bike is Def a possible replacement for my fjr in a couple of years.

I'm pretty much sold on it from reviews I must say. They're not available to test ride in the US yet, so if I want it early enough this year to take it on a trip I think I'm going to have to pre-order without a test ride.

I know a lot of people don't trust bike reviews, with the argument being how easy is it to be unbiased while the manufacturer is plying you with free drinks, vol-au-vents and paid adverts for your magazine. But even so, the press reaction to this bike has been glowing to say the least.

I'm also realizing that comparing it to a 1200cc adventure bike with a 19/17 wheel combination isn't comparing like with like. It's actually a more direct competitor to the BMW F800GS and Triumph Tiger 800 XC. Similarly priced, similar power. The AT is heavier than those bikes, but according to reviews has that weight centralized better. The AT also has the DCT gearbox that reviews say make off road riding near fool proof. And I suspect (though am awaiting dyno comparisons in the magazines to confirm) that the AT produces more power down low and in the mid-range than those bikes.

So, I'm sold! Deposit going down soon I think.

If it helps the staff at my local dealer whose opinions I trust really rate this bike, their initial allocation has already sold out. This bike is Def on my list as my next bike, it looks fantastic and I think it will be a future classic. Wasnt too keen when I saw it at the bike show but now I have had time to look at it on my own it is a cracking bike and I dontvthink you will be disappointed. Honda have to get this right and I think they have. Lucky you....... Best buy the white one though :innocent:

The BMW G650X range is a cracking bike that comes very close to the ideal RTW bike. 10.000Km service interval, very good on fuel and plent oompf for what it weighs (around 155 Kg wet) It does need some work though like the an extra tank and some suspension work.

I love the look of the new AT but I'd hate the weight of it every minute I was handling the bike.
My next bike (if I'd need one) could well be the coming AJP PR7.

If i see an ADV bike I like, I try and tilt it upright from the side stand with one hand on the LH end of the handlebars. It gives me a good indication of why I shouldn't bother with that particular bike. :innocent:

I nearly bought an X Challenge. Rode it and was NOT impressed. Heavy feel to it, very poor suspension (soft front, harsh rear). That Bladder rear suspension is hazardous to your health doh ... and considerable expense$$$ to change it out for conventional shock absorber. The front too needs help, IMO. Way out of balance with rear. Now add fitting a larger fuel tank. PITA IMO.

Power was not impressive either, this getting straight off my DR650 (40 HP) and right onto the X Challenge ... which was a LIKE NEW example with about 3000 miles on the clock. Would not loft front wheel in 1st gear under power.
My DR does it in 1st and 2nd gear, power only, no clutch.
https://patricksphotos.smugmug.com/M...P1010485-L.jpg

I had the cash in my pocket and positively LOVED the look of that BMW! ... had to tell seller I just could not do it. Did not feel right to me.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-m..._j8R4R-O-2.jpg
A striking beauty ... but just did not measure up to my Suzuki ... not even close.

Then I saw this ... and that pretty much put me off the X series bikes:
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-_...2/IMG_5492.jpg
Here we see an X Country, broke swing arm riding very mild sand Whoops in
Mojave desert.

So sad, BMW could have dominated the segment with just a few more years
of R&D (and stealing 40 years of Japanese development).

They did exactly this with their S1000RR sport bike (based 100% on Suzuki GSXR1000) followed by massive R&D work, BMW have made it the worlds BEST sport bike! Could have done the same with X series bikes. doh

Better test is to lay the bike in its side ... flat ... now try lifting. :oops2:
I like the new AT as well ... a beauty. But certainly won't be a "True" dirt bike, won't do what an AJP will do off road. But perhaps the AT is enough of a compromise to work for most travelers? Could you go two up on a AJP? Or CCM? Trade offs. bier