Route choices in general
 

This comment in another thread got me thinking about generally what kind of routes people are picking out, and what are their motivations for doing so

After our recent trip to Aragón (where we did a couple of days of sandy and gravel roads in our car) my partner's interest in riding off road has shot up a great deal, from just wanting to tag along to wanting to plan trips or even go off on her own, and including a desire to explore more varied terrain ... the main factora for her are to be as far away from other humans as possible, experience places where human influence is at it's lowest, and to cut through the landscape with less restrictions on where you can and can't go.

To a certain extent I share all that, but I also enjoy the challenge of riding difficult terrain, which is why I enjoy trials riding ... and the idea of being on a paved road for days at a time doesn't appeal.

So, what weighting do you give on trips towards choosing ways to cover ground, or to finding places other people don't generally go? On many of the RTW vlogs I've seen people map out towns or villages as target destinations, I don't remember many cases of people looking at a map, saying "that looks interesting / weird, I'll just go over there for a couple of days and explore it" ... do many people do that and just not document it as much?

I tend to pick routes that go from A to B, that can be Cape Town to Cairo or London to Kathmandu and enjoy several aspects of the trip including seeing different scenery and visiting historic towns and cities but also meeting people be they locals or fellow travellers. I do sometimes head off into the wilderness but only for a few days at most, my last albeit very short trip was a two day cycle ride up to and across Exmoor where I camped in the middle of nowhere which was a wonderful spot, I think many travellers are social people who like to get away from everything occasionally but who often seek out human related experiences.

IMO choice of equipment kind of dictates road choice.

Good points!

The sociability part is an interesting point, given that one of my motivations for wanting to stretch the range I can go (in the past it's been long-ish trips on road, and only short ones off road) is to be anti-social and get away from people in general ... I wonder how most motorbike travelers would classify themselves in terms of being intro/extroverted - travel does force one to open up just to communicate for essentials, if nothing else.

As for equipment and road choice, that might be a bit of a chicken and egg thing, I keep feeling drawn to smaller and more agile bikes ... though there's a limit to how far you can get on a trials bike people seem to get all around the world on not much bigger machines.

I have found that the bigger the bike, the bigger miles I seem to want to do, while the small bike I am more happy to explore.

Probably just a mind thing.

Travelled around the world on a + 200 kilo bike, I will never do that again. I understand the preferance of a big comfortable bike that can be ridden fast without straining the engine in Europe and north America, but for the most part of the rest of the world a 1000 cc bike, even a 500 cc bike is overkill.

And what do we have left after a 750-1000 km day on a big/fast bike? What fantastic memories gets stored in the brain harddisc after such a day? Buttpain and hand-numbness maybe…

A good point, for sure, but not yet the "root" of the answer.

I suspect that curiosity is what motivates most of us to travel, hence our choice of equipment is influenced by where our curiosity lies.

I enjoy seeing different countries & different cultures, in the sense of seeing what mankind has built and how people live in different places. I'm not too interested in natural scenery. Hence I have selected a "pavement oriented" motorcycle (Honda ST) as my vehicle.

Although this type of motorcycle could be characterized as a long distance machine, I rarely ride more than 200 or 300 km a day.

Michael

Hello

Since you startet this thread with my quote, some more details to what I meant with that.
The context was "15 month RTW on 2018/19 Africa Twin with 80/20 on-road-off road".

The dream of riding a motorbike around the world is different to everybody, the intended routes/roads vary with different bikes.
If you are in a sand trak of loose sand with -v---v- shape frome the "Jepps" a heavy bike is no fun or not possible, depends on the rider what goes.

If you cross long streches of pavement with insane car/truck drivers a small bike is hell.
You have to look at the routes/roads you like to ride.

But as I said, if you dream of doing a RTW only on small tracks you really have to search for those that you can line up to make a route from A-B-C-D-E...-around the world.
Look at the TET in europe, those guys work really hard to find legal offroad track that fit together, the TAT was searched by a guy and you have to pay for the result.
That is what I meant with "you have to search for that."

It is easy in many places of the world to stay in a region where you can play in the sand for several days but to get to B you have to face the pavement.

You have also to find out what is fun to you to ride as a bike.
As a swiss, I had to ride a 125ccm toybike for two years, did a trip from Switzerland to England, never will I do that again.

To me, for "on/off road" RTW travelling the best compromise is a +/- 200kg 600-800ccm bike, I did it on the XT660Z.
In sand I hated the weight, on long streches of pavement I wished I had bought the XT1200Z.
Later I did buy the XT1200Z and I love it on pavement but coudn't have done the same routes as I did with the XT660Z.

I did begin with travelling by road bikes, Suzuki LS650 a 4 month/28tkm trip in europe and then I bought a Kawasaki ZG1200 in Alaska and rode it all over the west till Baja.
Great adventures to me and beside roadconstruction no sand/gravel.

I could do an other RTW on the XT600Z again or a more road orientated RTW on a Goldwing.
I would like to do some remote sandtracks in Australia, Iceland etc... on a small bike,
BUT I could not do a RTW on a small 200-300ccm toybike.

If I want to travel slow and meet locals I take my trike. (but not for a RTW, for that I would need 10-20 years to do it)
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...79db64b5_c.jpgJapan2018_S110 496 by tom meier, auf Flickr
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...33a3d930_c.jpg279 by tom meier, auf Flickr



cheers sushi

@sushi2831 not that it isn't doable but IMO you wouldn't really want to do TAT on XT660z or XT600 carrying all that extra sh!t; at least second half from Lake City following gpsKevin's tracks. Maybe Sam's tracks but even then there are a few spots like parts of Alpine loop, Warlock rd in arkansas, Witt rd in TN, that effin hill about 25mi to Quinn Creek in OR, road out of Emery and Eagle canyon in Utah. Yes you can do it; yet you don't see that many full size bikes on Imogene most prefer smaller mounts. WR250r, CRF 250/300 would be a better choice, much more enjoyable.

As for riding sand it is always a possibility; just get good tires and watch for moondust or you will bite it. Personally I would take sand over mud but at least mud will eventually dry out.

And for RTW it depends where you going, I don't think you need as much bike outside of developed world, 250-500cc bike with 30-40hp and <400lbs will get you through just choose your route wisely, piece.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...0386be2f9d.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...3e3eb870fb.jpg

It really is a case of different strokes for different folks by the looks of it ... in terms of RTW type of rides sometimes I see photos of people on bigger bikes and they look like they stick out like a sore thumb next to locals on 125s, but that's getting a bit off topic ...

I wonder if there's a direct correlation between the ratio of off road exploration vs sticking to a known route and the size of bike being ridden

There is but in my humble opinion considering the likelihood of you coming back to take a route you have to pass on because of bike limits you wanna have a bike which can go anywhere instead of passing on opportunity.. just saying.

Of cause everyone has a different view of what the perfect ride is and at the end bike is just a tool for the job.

The destination
 

I look for interesting places.

Can be beautiful nature, interesting architecture or something with the culture.
And then I take the road that gets be there.

I travel to get to interesting places. Not to cover certain roads. A MC is perfect for this. You are alone. And you can go to many remote places, with few or no tourists.

Only dead fishes follow the stream.

Here's my take: Big, exotic moto, you tend to ride on the tarmac and do big miles. You're perceived as a rich gringo on a big, expensive moto. Exotic moto; difficult to find parts in many parts of the world. Detours, flooding, landslide, mud, soft sand; all are a bigger problem on a heavy moto.

Small moto, more exploring and spontaneous off the beaten track decisions; meaning more adventure and interesting experiences. Easier to handle on bad road conditions, nimble when you unexpectedly meet that fast moving car on a single lane mountain road, and easier to pick up when you tip over. Often a smaller moto means you're riding something similar to what the locals are riding. You're still perceived as a rich gringo, because you can afford to travel internationally, but you also are riding something locals can relate to. Less expensive to repair and better gas economy. Much easier to access secure parking at night.

Yes, where traffic is very fast, a small moto puts you on secondary roads or on the shoulder. But in many countries, on good tarmac, fast means 80 - 90 kph. Normal speed on many two lane tarmac roads is 40 to 60 kph.

The choice comes down to which way your goals sway between these extremes: do the miles to accomplish your RTW trip, or meet people along the way and "smell the roses". Most important is riding something reliable and easy to repair using local resources. I don't remember anyone saying they wish they had a bigger moto on an international trip; but I do recall hearing travelers say they wish they had lighter & smaller.

There is some interesting and useful information that has been provided here on this topic. I can only offer an opinion based on my personal experience. If I am going to areas where I expect the roads to be reasonably good and I think I need to cover a bit of distance then I will take the big German bike.

It sure is a great touring bike and I have covered a couple of hundred thousand kilometers in fifteen years doing that. If I am going to ride on desert or rougher type roads then for me a lighter bike is better. When I have shipped a bike to ride overseas and think I may want to poke down a dirt road, then I ship my DR 650. It is a much lighter and simpler bike, it can keep up with the traffic, is less stressful to ride on sand/dirt and carries all I need. Most importantly, as I tend to travel by myself, I can pick up the bike if I drop it on a sandy track.

I understand each rider will have their own framework for decision making.

Yes: Spontaneous decisions are the decisions of adventure. Sometimes you get asked why you are here, sometimes things can get sketchy (deep river crossing, sketchy bridge, doubting the choice you made, desperate to find gasoline or a place to sleep, even having to turn around). Many times these are the decisions that are a highlight of the trip - people you meet, scenery, trip adventures... But, you need to be of the personality who can make decisions with an outcome that is not guaranteed. How risk adverse are you?

choices
 

a month ago I went up to the northern tip of South America Punta Gallinas and the alto Guajira Peninsula one week trip from my home base Bucaramanga
Up north from the pavement and back was 600 km of mud water rocks and lots sand
You need a guide it is law. 4 of us 3 Colombian nationals and I Canadian
1200 gs, 1250gs Royal Enfield Intercepter and my f700gs The 1200s were a pain in the ass getting stuck and crashing all the time I had my moments but at least I could pick my bike up if I did not crash on a downhill slope Thats when I needed assistance the air temps were 39-40 normally and on one salt flat it was 46
this desert is large and you can get lost very easily and run out of gas there are no gas stations you buy gas in 1or two liter coke bottles from the local indigenous the Wayuu
Because of the loads on your engine 100 km of sand takes a tank of gas
I realized why that no wonder Avriders on there South America journeys have not been here Id guess exploring SA is going to Ushuaia
Everybody likes to say they have been to Tuk and Ushuaia but have you been to Punta Gallinas so far this is the best trip I have been on this is a special Place next time I will go on a DR350 Less work more fun at 61

Hello

That is what I mean with "you have to search for it".
It is a dead end route in the wrong direction from Ushuaia, not on the route from a to b.

You need time in Colombia to go up there.

sushi

I believe that RTW riders usually stick to the major roads and only occasionally they meander off their planned route to visit places of interest. IMHO people simply don't have the time/money to travel around the world for years on end. But to travel extensively in remote areas on tiny back roads you need time.
That's in my opinion the difference between RTW-touring and explicitly visiting and exploring a certain region.
Take for instance Southern Africa: When you read the travelogues of most RTW riders you find the Garden Route, the West Coast route (Cape Town to Namibia) and in a few cases the famous Sani Pass.
The Garden Route is rather boring, and to really get to know the countries you need time to explore the backroads. This is where the beauty and the gems of the countries are hidden.
So my conclusion is that choosing the route depends on your aim: Cover big distances or visit and explore a country.

IMO it depends on what you see as RTW: one bike/one shot doesn't have to be the only way to do it; I met people who have one bike in asia, one in africa and/or one in south america. You take 1-2mo go to Siberia for BAM then come in winter and do some riding in SA, the world is your oyster.

That sounds like quite the adventure :thumbup1: The sort of thing I'd enjoy on a small trail bike

way out there
 

our guide had a 125 bald tires it was 4 years old and it locked like it was 20
on our big bikes we were sweating to death Coyote our guide was having a jolly old time not even breaking a sweat He is Wayuu Indian

Oyster
 

its what you want in life and situations I am a empty nester divorce parents dead and kid grown up. semi retired living in Colombia I have a bike in Canada that I rarely ride TF cold for my liking and every summer in BC and Yukon is burning like hell it seems like summers are a pain in the ass smoke and road closures
Plenty a adventure down here even with the borders closed I am happy just seeing Colombia

the tip
 

the point is yes its out of the way and anyone can go to Ushuaia or Get a university of TUK sweatshirt TUK U I have one I worked up there in the early 2000s for a couple years
If going to the Northern tip of SA was easy everybody would be doing it and that's what makes this place So Special Google map it and you will find not much there even the government has abandoned this place Im serious there is no water or infostructure Road maintenance does not exist the roads are where ever you drive mostly trails when it does rain it is now you can't go
too much mud in low lying areas
Hell you only need 4 days from Santa Marta

I found on the Garmin if you set "avoidances" to Interstates and Major Highways it'll take you down all sorts of interesting little roads. Much slower if you're going somewhere of course, and it doesn't actually take you off piste should you be in an open desolate terrain. But if you head out on a dirt track or across country at least the satnav will keep indicating the general direction you want to head, just combine that with a bit of dead reckoning.

But I think Vaufi hit the nail on the head: most travellers are going between A&B and will tend to gravitate towards paved or at least recognised routes. It may not be easy to find dirt tracks especially in the developed world. It's the difference between travelling and just taking your time and exploring an area. Not all of us have the time, money or inclination for the latter.

I wholeheartedly agree with this statement.
Yes big bike are great for racking up the miles, but how much scenery do you miss when your flying past at a ton+.
I’m planning to do a 2 - 3 k trip next year on an XR125L. Easy to find parts for, light enough to pick up, and I get to enjoy the scenery more at a slower pace.
We do these trips to enjoy it, slow it down and it enjoy more!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Absolutely this, me and my other half were touring on road bikes in Europe and found that excluding motorways on the Garmin wasn't enough - excluding the main roads too resulted in taking the nice twisty pre-Roman roads. That was what turned it into a fun little adventure rather than just a trip.

What prompted me to create this post was a lack of time/money/inclination for going between A and B on paved / recognised routes :innocent:

I love the idea mentioned above of going somewhere and just renting a local-type bike to cover a small area in lots of detail ... since the original post I have found a few accounts of doing this, which needed a little more digging to find. I guess because if it's not RTW or long distance it's less headline grabbing.

Problem with rent that you are looking at $100+ a day, a couple weeks would run you more than buying a bike and selling it with the loss at the end of the trip.

As for excluding main roads in GPS trick it works everywhere be it Kentucky or Cinque Terre. Just be mindful where you are at and be ready to track back or at least consult with locals; following google maps blindly in Sierra Madre may get you in more than you bargainned for [emoji39]

Well....I've rented locally for one to three week periods fairly often. I've paid from US$10 to US$150 per day, for everything from well-used, Chinese 125s in Africa to (once) a late-model Africa Twin in Georgia and (another time) a very buff Ducati in L.A. Sometimes the cheap 125 suits perfectly. Other times, I can get the bike I want by renting rather than ones I don't want by buying and selling--I'm thinking of Vietnam and Laos, but this has also been true elsewhere.

What's more, on a short trip I don't want to spend my time with purchase and re-sale even if I'd save some money; I'm taking short trips because I'm working at home, and up to a point I've got less time than money. In some places, rentals come with helmets, jackets, repair kits, rain gear, and more, saving me the trouble of hauling my own thru airports and train stations before and after my riding. On these short trips, much of what I value is convenience, not saving a buck or two.

In places where this is commonly done it's not difficult to find trip reports, so I'm not sure why it's been a problem; I've written a few and read a great many myself. In other locations it's worth remembering that people who post on internet forums are the minority no matter what you're looking for, so sometimes you've got to plunge ahead and make a pathway on your own.

In my experience, you can get off a plane almost anywhere outside the developed world, ask around, and find a local rental at a very reasonable price within a day--two if severely jet-lagged. Even if there are no rental companies, there are always folks looking to earn some cash letting you ride their bikes for a couple of weeks. They can be found--or will find you--by asking your taxi driver, at your hotel, or at any local repair shop, no matter how seedy or plush.

Just a counterpoint to the $100/day scenario. I've done that too, but it's certainly not the only way.

Hope that's helpful.

Mark

Hello

Where or what is the University of TUK?

For those who think most riders on a RTW go just from A to B with missing so many small tracks, please feel free to post here where you rode on your already done or planned RTW.:mchappy:
But please only the small alternative routes to the mainstream A to B, not the dead end day trips from A back to A.
I'm curious.bier

cheers sushi

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuktoyaktuk

Don't know anything about the "university," but I've got enough t-shirts.

Thanks, very curious about the small side track that the "off the mainstream routes" ADV riders will take.

tuk
 

Northern Humour there is no university If you have been to Inuvik or TuK you could of bought one
and it sells well TUK U its a Varsity sweat shirt

Just to clarify, a Chinese 125 at 10 bucks a day was the level I was thinking of ... and I'm not physically able to ride around the world, but I do want adventure and could manage a week or so of hard terrain and wild camping.

It hasn't been hard to find information about these kinds of trips once I knew what I was looking for, but when I started the thread I'd only read stuff from people who had done very large / long trips.

tripping
 

10 bucks a day you would be a back packer
a gallon of gas in Colombia costs 3 bucks Canadian I dont know about other countries down here, wild camping here is out of the question for security reasons
to risky getting robbed, they have camping but it is on private property ten bucks a day

10 a day for the motorbike rental, not 10 a day for everything.

Places to visit
 

My view:
Get good information about the area you want to travel in. Find interesting places. And map those as destinations. Not towns. It works in small scale and large scale.

I larger scale. One example is Pablo.
He does not go to Ushuaia and tick the box.
I almost every video, he is explaining an interesting place. And tell about the history.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...XnJDkjfKbgGlCC


In small scale: I just did a 6 day trip along N2 in Portugal. Most people drive it in 2 days and see just tarmac. I read a lot before. And mapped many places of interest. Close to the road, and some requiring a detour.
I have tried to just ride (e.g through France) and hope to find nice places by luck. But it does not work. Some times you can get lost and up in some wonderful place. But you miss most of them, if you do not know about them.

I have traveled France twice. With opposite approaches.
a) A lot of POI planned. Places that I wanted to visit
b) Just drive through an look for something interesting/beautiful

The difference was huge. I will not use method b) again. It only works if
1) Your main goal is to get from A to B
2) Your main joy is to ride your bike, and you do not care about the area you are passing

One time I took a small group on a guided bike tour in my home area. And showed them interesting places and we road nice road. Their reaction was: Wow !! We would never have found this without you. They should still have reached theris goal (A HD group meeting, but without all those memories)

You would not end up in places like these. If you did no know what you were looking for:

https://www.roadtripsaroundtheworld....lage-portugal/

https://www.dangerousroads.org/europ...ad-france.html

https://www.dangerousroads.org/europ...-napoleon.html

https://www.tripadvisor.com/Attracti..._Piedmont.html

Those are my way points. Not big cities.

===

I planned to ride Ruta 40 in Argentina. But Covid 19.....
I started with a presentation of the 100 interesting places around the route. and took my time to create a GPX file with all of the. And than I cal select and build a route based on that.

The other way to do it. Go to one end of the road. Follow the road. And drive as far as you can every day. And celebrate when you reach the other end. Yes!! I did Ruta 40. That is not for me.

But I have no opinions about how others do it. That is up the every one to do as they want. I just answer the question about how I do it. And I do not claim that anything is right or wrong.

Whan planning a trip, finding "out of the way" places is not easy. What resources have folks used?

For me, reviewing ride reports is one major resource; here on HU and AdvRider. Another resoure to find some good routes includes iOverlander. After that, it's been moreso resources that I chance upon while traveling. Asking about where to go locally, being open to suggestions from local folks, and looking at the map and following that interesting road that is not the main highway. Local folks have given me a good number of interesting places to explore, so having time available for these options makes a trip more interesting. Moto rental agencies promoting travel to foreign travelers are good for the couple of times I had the opportunity to utilize this resource.

I've tried Tripadvisor and a few other similar web sites, but they are more oriented towards the main tourist attractions and motel promotion. They are helpful, but those locations and experiences are not the memorable and unique ones of a trip.

It is a challenge to plan a trip that includes off the beaten path places. What additional planning resources are good, anyone??

Maybe Im a bit oldschool but I often use a guidebook, Rough Guides preferred or Lonely Planet. Then I read trip reports and follow other riders blogs and pick up advice and ideas from them. Talking to other travellers can also be useful. I have also been given a lot of great advise (and some not that great too…) from locals, and Airbnb hosts.

I have also simply googled something like «top ten attractions in….wherever Im heading» or «top ten things to do in….» Something interesting always pops up!

Staying in cities and towns of a certain size theres often a thing called «Free walking trips of….» Then you just join in and walk around with a local guide for 2-4 hours with a group of others. And I hand over a little tip in the end, around 5 € or so - but its all up to each and everyone if you want to tip and how much.

you won't find a moto at 10 bucks a day in Colombia Try 30 a day
Bicycle 10 bucks a day

That's not too bad I suppose if it's something like an XR150, certainly a lot easier than shipping a bike to Colombia for a week and then shipping it back!

A quick interweb search tells me that $15/day is doable for a genuine Honda 125 in Vietnam, so if one were willing to go down to a Chinese bike it might be lower than that ... or if I were to go to Cuba I've been promised the use of an MZ 250 for free, lol

Just a quick comment regarding the original topic :cool4:

I prefer to ride costal roads, usually very twisty with beautiful views. :thumbup1:

adv awaits......
 

Now that looks very interesting......

Most of my best memories are from the random unplanned (to a degree) actions/moments while on a 'planned' trip.

This would be a great and obvious focal point on a SA trip, thanks for posting..!!