Shitty behaviour abroad?
 

I find it amazing how people are willing to commit fraud, eg: selling bike and reporting it stolen; ignore laws (insurance?) and generally disrespect the country (ies) in which they are guests, yet if someone did that in their own countries they would be horrified. And it only makes life harder for the next traveller going through. I have been refused a room because the last bike traveller had gone off with the towels.

There is a guy from the forum going around Argentina and Brasil with an "offensively" loud exhaust pipe and he even gets a "like":(

Its not that the locals don't give a shit its that most of the time they are too polite to say something.

?c?

Not just abroad.
 

Some take towels to put under their tank bag. Some even leave the old towel behind at the next hotel to take a fresh one.

Some take 'souvenirs' from hotels.

Some view the 'high cost' of a hotel as an invitation to take something.

They do this in their own country too.

True, some never learn that we are ambassadors for our little niche of travelers on bikes. I've seen bad behavior for decades and my fellow countrymen can be some of the worst offenders. (USA)

In Mexico, especially Baja, the rich Buggy and Monster truck racers think Mexico belongs to them because they drop a lot of coin while they are there. No rules for them. Sure, it helps their economy but that's no cause to be RUDE and disrespectful.

Some think USA is doing Mexicans a favor by letting so many millions work illegally in our country ... so have the attitude "They owe us". You can see where this is going. Not pretty. But there is hope.

Not ALL racers or tourists are like this ... many do good deeds South of the border setting up all manor of charity organizations. Millions are donated in Baja alone.

A retired Doctor/riding buddy helps to run a clinic, brings free eye glasses, even copped a unused Mamogram machine. (this is a BIG deal)

He's treated like a Saint, everyone knows him. He's Danish, not American. doh Oddly, his Spanish sucks and I have to translate for him ... yet he speaks 4 other languages perfectly! (Danish, Swedish, German, English)

That bit about ruining it for the next rider through is SO TRUE. I've been victim of this myself, I'm sure many others have as well. One bad reaction can color your whole experience in that country or region. So BE NICE, DON'T CHEAT or STEAL or disrespect ... think of the next guy coming through after you!

Having a bit of language can smooth ruffled feathers.
Sadly, seems to be folks who speak none can have (or cause) problems. I've witnessed this many times. Typically they think the locals are cheating them ... but often it's just lack of communication. Can create bad blood that carries over to the next poor bastard riding through. :thumbdown:

Not that Gringos (any foreigner) don't get cheated ... it happens ... but fairly rare in my experience over last 40 years. Communication is key.

When in doubt try to get a bi-lingual person to help translate, work out the issue. This is good practice at borders, hotels, Shops, embassies (English spoken at most).

Worth it to PAY a Helper in this situation. I did this in Thailand and worked out GREAT. (bike rental deal), cost me $4. :D

When in Malaysia , doing a bike purchase the agreements went all over the place, even after the money changed hands, which at that time I just ignored it.
Later when I mentioned this to my brother in law , he just said "This is Malaysia", n so it was , whenever similar occurances came up ,we would just say "This is Malaysia", my wife is an chinese -malaysian come American now.
People just do things different in other places.?

This has come up before in various guises, from using forged and photo-shopped documents to this kind of stuff and also hooky insurance.

Some travelers seem to think it's mighty smart to be able to get a way with it.

IMHO it is not completely dissociated from the "throwing money around types" who think they are better than the indigenous population because they hold a certain passport or have money.

I believe it explains, along with natural envy, why foreigners are often despised and also targeted for robbery in some countries.

To a limited extent, some of it is unavoidable e.g. if you are hustled for a bribe at a border by the border guard, you gotta pay it if you want to get in. But acting like honesty is only for when one is at home and like it's one-up-man-ship to get away with breaking laws that apply often for very good reasons e.g. insurance, vehicle reggo, carnets, is extremely disrespectful and arrogant.

Understand your POV here but I see significant differences between disrespecting individuals vs. circumventing arcane, randomly enforced regs forced upon the public by greedy corporations or corrupt govt. agencies or Tin Pot officials.

Often times we are simply doing what locals do in every instance. Fiddling the system a bit is what is done in many places ... and they'd call you a fool if you didn't do it. It's expected. I'm sure you've seen this.

It's not disrespecting individual people ... just the system itself ... which is often USURY. (insurance companies especially)

I'd sooner slip a fiver to the underpaid migra official to allow me through ... and see him smile than be forced to plow through mountains of paperwork that makes no sense ... and then PAY for that privilege. doh
Yes, it's unfair to the poor who can't possibly pay. But they have to start their revolution, not me.

We can't change the system, just have to operate practically and fairly within it. Yes, it perpetuates corruption ... but sometimes there are no other options.

My respect goes out ONE ON ONE to real people face to face, not institutions.

Be kind, share and smile.:D Karma!

Laws are fantastic until they are applied to you or your family members, then watch the hypocrisy start. Usually applies to middle class families in my experience.
Agree with mollydog, sometimes you just have to pay that fee and if you are white then it's going to cost, as we can afford it..... Apparently. If you suffer righteous indignation over this then don't travel :ban:

No righteous indignation here; if you want to be dishonest, that's your look out.

Justify it any way you like but you aren't fooling anyone except yourself.

There's a difference between (some of) what you describe and reporting a bike stolen and then selling it for parts, whether or not the buyer was in on it.

I'm surprised by the number of people who think this is OK (or not, actually).

Look it's easy to target someone and then stereo type, if a well to do person stops at a hotel and takes something from a room they are not going to say lets just not have well to do people stopping here, but if one person on a bike or motorbike takes something they have a target, that makes it easy for them, I've stayed in some nice places where the owners have thought of not letting me stay because I rode up on a bike and I look bad dirty and mean, after a wash and a change of clothes they didn't know I was the guy on the bike.
I've also found that if you ask you sometimes get or maybe a few euros helps,

Docsherlock, I think your comment just about nailed it :thumbup1:

There is moral ambiguity in both the world and this thread.

But the moral ambiguity is particularly prevalent within secular societies.
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I guess everyone just lives the way they feel comfortable with themselves. I personally don't dig fraud or theft or hooky documents however it is dressed up and it definitely affects others going forwards.

Insurance scams (and bike theft) for bikes a bit uncommon here in USA, maybe more prevalent in UK? I'm not a fan in insurance companies (a rant for another thread) but would never do as you suggest or condone it ... and guys I ride with wouldn't either.

But I don't have a problem selling off MY bike in a foreign country ... even though it may be against local rules. It's the buyers problem to get it registered and legal. If the govt. misses out on usury fees ... my heart bleeds.
That's what happens when you charge 400% duty on imports. doh

In US, insurance scams drive up costs for everyone, giving fodder for companies to jack rates even higher. Poor things. :innocent:

High duty rates are usually due to non-existent taxation from other sources such as income or land.

Just because YOU see it as unfair does not make it so. So effectively you are stealing from the government.

If the "the government is corrupt, so I can be dishonest" line works for you that's your lookout. What you are in fact doing is depriving a poor government of money it is due under the laws it has created. This impacts the people of the country in which you and others travel by, for example, making less money available for medical care, roads, defense, pensions and so on. You will no doubt argue that it is a small amount of money so it doesn't matter, but if everyone took that stance what would happen?

Would you dodge tax in your own country? If not, don't do it abroad. It really is that simple.

Some might view such an attitude as some have expressed thus far as somewhat colonial and/or arrogant.