UK government now
 

Parish council
District council
County council
"Locally" elected mayors, with wide powers to implement policy
Regional development authorities and quangoes of various natures
National government including various types of devolved govn for Scotland, Wales, NI and, potentially, Cornwall etc

Supra-national government in the form of the EU.

Which ones can you do without?
Which ones are voted into office?

Steel industry in Europe
 

Currently, in the news is the demise of the UK steel manufacturing effort.
You will hear, via lots of media and other talking heads, that the UK must abide with the EU directives, regulations etc.

In 2012, the governments of Tuscany and Italy "rescued" the local steel plant in Piombino to the tune of about 150m euro.
No one batted an eyelid at that time.
That steel plant continues to produce their products to this day, despite the accusations of dumping that are made against the Chinese plants.
http://www.feralpigroup.it/upload/pr...5-06-09-19.pdf

The last time I travelled by Luxembourg they also had their blast furnace in place.

Judge by what is done, not so much by what is said.

Exactly, whilst I have historic issues with the French you have to take your hat off to them, it's two fingers to anything that affects their workers, they don't dick about when it comes to security, shoot first and medals later :innocent:and yet they also cream off the eu pot....... The good old Cap.
Over here in old blighty we just roll over......... Having become a risk averse, too afraid to be sued rather then telling the claimant to fxxx off, type society.
What happened to sailing the fleet down the river, bombing the capital, charging them for the coal and shells :oops2: other then we don't have a fleet anymore doh

Our fleet is rated about fifth in the world. Fifty year old aircraft carriers look flash to Joe public but tend the break down more than ten year old nuclear attack submarines and GCHQs hackers. Best to ruin the other lots credit rating way before it gets silly though. No loan, no battleship fuel.

I am pretty fixed on voting to leave as the EU will lie about what they will change then not do it. The Out lot will also lie, but afterwards will be in the lifeboat with us, not directing our deck chair rearrangements from their private jet.


Andy

One of my favourite Mark Twain Quotes:

“If voting made any difference they wouldn't let us do it.”

Someone else mentioned it, what everyone else in the EU should fear is exactly what happened to the US, we became federated states which have slowly eliminated cultural differences within said states. This can happen with the modern attack on the south by removing Confederate statues, now before you respond think of the heritage within your present country, the statues you have of ancient leaders who could instantly be subject to this sort of Insanity. I believe England is dealing with some of that as well, as much as I want truth regarding old leaders, they are still a important part of our history.
Slowly but surely we are all being indoctrinated, resist, how boring would Europe be if it ends up like the US. I already hate the fact that English is now all over the world taking away from much of the fun of traveling. Money exchange is also a fun factor of traveling often adding to the adventure of our travels and now? Well you already know. I would also like to mention that currency often represents history within in any country. That history is a instant curiosity to anyone traveling in a given area, how horrible that many have lost that identity entirely.


With all that said If Countries try to leave the EU I get great news programming on the carnage which ensues, reality TV at its best!

How funny is that, just been watching a programme on TV about what the last poster mentioned, removal of the southern flag. You seriously have some nutty fucxxrs over there. Regardless of the issues in this country and the eu,, if someone stood outside one of our government buildings waving a nazi flag yelling sieg heil and white power they would get the shxt kicked out of them by all in sundary regardless of race or creed. :offtopic: and hopefully the local,plod would let go of them at the top of the stairs to the cells.
Am still voting out :innocent:

Didn't know
 

I am assuming, based on these postings(being from USA a lot of international news does not come my way) that a vote is near about staying in the EU. There was a lot of coverage about the Scotland vote, so I may be wrong. I do read the BBC site and haven't seen anything. Sorry if I am wrong. However, as a previous person as posted, the US constitution was designed to bring 13 different governments, with different taxes and money, different religious groups and languages together for common economic benefit. Aside from a few minor spats, it has held together fairly well over the years. I understand Switzerland(forgive mispelling, not my strong suit) has 4 languages, three major ethnic groups, and at least 2 different sectarian groups. They also had a few fights to settle issues, and now seem to be holding together okay. I do not know all the issues, and am not big on giving advice, but sometimes things can be worked out for the benefit of all.

I'm not much of a fan that we are directed by un-elected directors in the EU, and its a bureaucratic nightmare far too impressed with itself and not its citizens.

However, I will always vote in (and yes a bit more accountability please). I'd happily vote in and even consider losing some personal freedoms as long as we are bound close enough in Europe never to have another war.

I think we all forget that one part of the forming of the EEC was to draw nations closer together to stop rouge nutty leaders (there's been a few of them?) starting wars because we are bound closer together.

Its one thing that has worked very well over the past 60 years within Western Europe and as my boys get very close to 'conscript' age, I'm glad they aren't likely to be sent a cannon fodder into a war with Belgium because they are exporting beer that is cheaper than ours. There might be a few variations on that theme, but I hope you know what I mean.

I think The UK being in Euro makes us better friends with the rest of Europe. We're already right on the edge anyway!

It's happening right now.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education...-confront-view

The re-writing of history is an essential requisite of the revisionists.

Without sounding too American :innocent:...we are in a War already and have been since we went in to Iraq and Afghan, maybe even before that.....but not that many of our European Brothers (tongue in Cheek) are helping out

Nowt wrong with conscription, bring it back (I am not saying your boys Dave) It would do the youth of today some good as there is a lack of respect, lack of discipline, lack of motivation to work, I could probably go on if I thought about it for long enough. My 22 years service was the best thing I did and lets face it 1 or 2 years in the grand scheme of things is not long

Wayne

English has always been over the world, as is French, Spanish and Portuguese.....probably because we were the ones which mainly colonised the planet

I can agree with you there...we definitely don't want to end up like the US :innocent:

Glad the TV will be good though, thought riding the bike would be better :mchappy:

Anyway we are getting :offtopic:

Wayne

I don't see that there is a risk that the European Countries end up like the US. That, however, was the utopia. But as utopia remained and will remain. We all have a long, very long history which can not be compared with the comparativelly very short time that the thirteen colonies existed before the independence. However, in Europe, that won't happen because it simply isn't possible. It simply isn't possible to erase histories which go back, in some cases, more than 1000 years, by decree. But it won't be for lack of trying!

Wayne, URRAY to what you said regarding military service. I, for one, also believe that the abolition of compulsory military service for all young men was something which left us all as societies at a loss.

davebetty, please kindly allow me a little something regarding your post. One thing was the EEC. A very good one as a matter of fact. Another substantially different thing is the EU, an absurd which has always been an absurd and which will keep on being an absurd till the day someone finally issues its death certificate and this game of extend and pretend ends once and for all. I truly hope that from the remants we all can recreate the EEC but, somehow, I doubt it. Too many hard feelings are being created between several different countries and I'm very much affraid that in the end even something like the former EEC won't be possible.

:offtopic:I like it that you guys are taking an interest in this thread.

To say something about a few points therein:

The USA finally came together as a single nation as a result of your civil war.
From just some of my reading about that event, all of the public-face issues that were in place at the time, such as slavery, were the fig leafs for the real reason for that civil war; the real reason was the imposition of the dollar bill across all of the States.
i.e. the single currency which is an absolute essential of any unified nation.

The campaigns about the referendum within the UK are just kicking off here now, following the usual dearth of sensible news reporting over the Christmas/New Year break (which, naturally, goes on for weeks).
A meeting in Brussels next month will cut a deal, be in no doubt about that, and then the money is on our govn calling a referendum as early as June 16 before the migrant situation in mainland Europe brings on any further heat into the arguments.

There is a mass of information out there about the aims and intentions of the EU commission, the "5 Presidents" etc. While these have been in place for quite a while, they are now openly avowed objectives of those bodies and individuals.
In a word, the aim is a single nation state for Europe, with a single currency (more or less in place for now), a single fiscal arrangement, and a single government.

Switzerland has a very open form of democracy: for instance, if any one of the cantons says no to a proposal then that proposal falls.
Hence their stability.
They also have virtually endless referenda, something which many in politics abhor because they feel the controls that places on their powers.

Agenda 21 of the UN is also relevant.

There is a far wider "war" in place at present, usually referenced in the media as a currency war.
It is how nations compete with each other without actually throwing hardware around.
Many would say that China started the current currency war which is why we have accusations of "dumping" products into their overseas markets.

Nations across the world are engaged in it at present.