[QUOTE=RussG;540072]We're at cross purposes. The issue at discussion was pending EU anti bike legislation as illustrated by him in his explanation as to why Triumph employ anti-tamper software in their ECU's.

As to his political views, I have no idea, why would I?


Clearly TheWarden is not open to reason and I'm not going to change his view but that's OK.

The poster XS904 raised the issue of EU regulation and what effect it has on us bikes. For others interested in this issue Right To Ride EU does sterling work on our behalf fighting anti-bike EU regulation. One look at this page of their web site illustrates the extent of their campaigns Regulation News Releases but it also illustrates my point on the sheer hostility the EU has to us all and our biking freedoms. Sadly, RTR, MAG, FEMA and the other campaigning groups have only limited success against the relentless weight of EU regulation. Happily we in the UK now have the opportunity to free ourselves from all this bollocks and VOTE LEAVE

It’s curious that you align yourself with that Guardian newspaper opinion piece in which the only argument they can muster against us BREXITER’s is the old conspiracy theorist trope. Curious in that that newspaper is the foremost (UK) promoter of the “one percent” trope which has it that 1% of the world controls the other 99%.


Actually, of all things it is the remain campaign that has opened my eyes to the truth of that particular trope. The REMAINIACS have the entire media, the entire establishment, every big organisation in the world, all the money, from the banks, from the government, from the EU, from the corporations, they have the televisions, the newspapers, the social media networking sites, the MPs, the foreign Presidents and Prime Ministers, the military, the intelligence services, the 90 yr old veterans, the police, the charities, the stars, celebrities and virtue signallers, the universities and the crooked academics - almost the entire financial, political, media, military/industrial, intelligence agency, cultural, academic and anything-else-you-can-think-of strength against the Brexit campaign. Perhaps there’s something to this conspiracy theory after all.

But they still can't win.


The irony is that voting remain endorses and aligns you with the 1%.

The reason I read the Guardian online is that their journalism is pretty good and it's free. You have to pay for the Torygraph and I refuse to consume anything generated by that monster Murdoch.

Am currently travelling in foreign lands and it's great to read proper big long sentences in English. My Spanish is shite and most latinos' English is average to poor and after the usual pidgin chit chat I'm on my own with my kindle or BBC/Guardian news apps for the rest of the evening.

Talking to North American teenage backpackers isn't even an option when they start on their The Donald vs Hilary tripe.

I don't align myself with anyone or anything. I felt that particular piece of journalism fully matched my view, enforced by the fact that I in no way respect the 3 brexit mouth pieces Johnson (complete buffoon), Farage (I pronounce his name like a working class man would pronounce garage, the least bad of the 3, imho) and the most vile monster on the planet, Gove (I'm a teacher...)

The EEC/EC/EU has imho helped keep peace in Europe in my parents lifetimes and hopefully for the rest of mine too.

As this is a m/c travel forum, I'll leave this as my last serious contribution to this thread. I might however throw in random bollox just to see if anyone rises to the bait keepcalm :rolleyes2:

[QUOTE=Fastship;540077] I guess that's a no you can't then. What not even in a 10,000 word essay?

We're not at cross purposes you rolled out his words to support your agenda that the EU is going to implement legislation that you don't like. The fact being that this was yet more lies and propaganda.
They may well do in the future as may a brexit government in the name of environment or safety but that's irrelevant.

Wait – you're a Guardian reading, Farage/Boris/Gove hating teacher and you are a remainiac? Who'd have thunk it? :smartass: doh :rofl:





(PS – scary men with guns standing face to face against other scary men with guns keep you safe – and they are NATO.)

It's thought, not thunk. Some people on this forum like calling others names: Frankly it makes these individuals look like playground bullies and utterly ridiculous, just like their better paid ex public school official mouthpieces who really are only fishing to become the next leader of the Tory Party.

PS. Ever thought (thunk??!!) of the adaption of the slogan Make love, not war, where grown men think it's better to sell stuff to each other rather than fight each other?

As it's 8am here and the sun is shining, I'm off for a bike ride.

Suerte!

That's about the daftest thing I've ever read on the HUBB.

I work in the Low Cost airline (LCC) industry, was in at the beginning in the '90's. Last week Mick O'Leary CEO of Ryan Air shared a platform with Ed Balls, Gideon Osborne and Vince Cable in defence of the EU and advocating remain.


Here is a lecture Mick O'Leary gave five years ago to the EU Innovation Convention (a contradiction in terms?) in which he eviscerates the EU Commission and all its works. It is well worth watching not only for the sheer hypocrisy of Mick's more recent alignments but for the home truths he hilariously exposes in the Commissions own offices. WELL worth watching doh





One might reasonably ask why Mick now adores the EU? Well, Ryan Air is no longer the "challenger” airline up against the vested interests of state airlines, it IS the largest airline in the EU with its own vested interests and seeks protective the red tape and invisible barriers of the EU to prevent more efficient, lower cost challenger airlines for entering the market and undercutting them. Simples.

This perfectly illustrates the lies of the REMAINIACS in claiming they work on our behalf and prices will go up and shows how "vested interests" are at work. Only way to to show 'em (and get lower air fares) is to VOTE LEAVE

Could you use your industry experience to explain the mechanic of how leaving the EU would lower air fares to UK citizens? Not phishing. It's a genuine question to which I'd like to understand the answer.

There's a lot of talk about topics that I think won't change whether the UK remains or leaves, and the Triumph/motorbike topic is an example.

If I was the management of Triumph I would be looking at the legislation in the various markets I wanted to sell in (North America, South America, Australia, Asia, Europe) and would do a trade-off analysis on the costs/benefits of going for the lowest common denominator (i.e. one model for the whole world) or tailoring the bike for the individual markets. KTM, for example, has one variant that is sold in Australia and Europe. KTM models for other markets vary from this to the extent that the owner's manual is different.

If the UK left the EU, and if it would make sufficient difference to UK sales to have a UK-specific bike, then I (as Triumph management) might decide to market a bike that's different from the EU model. But probably not...

On the broader issues, it's been said that EU initiatives have improved our lives in many ways and I wouldn't disagree with this, but you don't have to be a member of a trading group to adopt the changes that the group decides. Even better, you can pick and choose which trading group's policies to adopt.

^
Sorry to contradict you Tim but Triumph do indeed build different spec bikes for one out of fifty US states which in turn are different from EU, Japan or “world” bikes. All manufactures of vehicles follow this policy; indeed you can by Land Rovers & Lancruisers with “World Spec” for use outside the EU only – guess what? They are much cheaper.


What we are talking about in regards to the ECU is mostly a few lines of code in the software. As we have seen with the criminality of Volkswagen adding, deleting or “changing” code is a simple and no cost task.


I did point all this out in my original post on the subject.


Where I agree with you is in the matter of choice, both for the vendor and the consumer. Triumph made their choice and I made mine and bought a Harley and with a Thundermax ECU I can tune to my hearts content.


The central point is however, is it acceptable for the EU to dictate to you what you can and cannot do with your own property? Would you allow them to dictate the operating system on the computer you own and how is this different to the the OS on your bikes ECU?

Within this seemingly trivial matter a great truth about the EU is revealed; under their system everything is illegal unless the law permits it. Under our system and way of life we are freeborn and everything is legal unless the law says it is isn't.

Would you buy an Amstrad E-m@iler from this man?
 

Another lunchtime howler courtesy of another hypocritical, flip-flop REMAINIAC :rofl:




5 May 2013:Lord Sugar attacks the EU, says Brussels is an obstacle to his companies’ success:

“When I started my business years ago, to take on the first person, the second, the third, was bad enough – but now we have a further obstacle to worry about: the political correctness of things, the claims culture, and the health and safety. It’s no wonder some small businesses say it is too onerous and they won’t hire anyone. I blame the fact that we are part of Europe. I blame the fact that the Government doesn’t have the guts to say to Brussels: I don’t like it, we should start taking control of our own safety and health regulations and our own claims culture. I’ve been told we can’t because we are in Europe. I say, enough is enough! We are Britain; we were once a great industrial nation and now you’ve turned us into a nation of ambulance chasers and moaners and wastrels.”

31 May 2016: Lord Sugar lovebombs the EU, says Brussels is responsible for his companies’ success:

“I’ve been in business for 50 years. I’ve seen some pretty daft ideas in my time. And I’ll tell you one of them: Britain leaving the EU… When we entered the EU, it was a breath of fresh air for me. It opened up a massive market. I was free to sell to and buy from who I wanted and where I wanted. Honestly, that’s how my companies prospered… So, for the sake of Britain, I hope you trust me and my instincts, and, on June 23rd, vote to remain.”

"What changed his mind?"
Peerage, government job, government contracts, BBC contracts etc. etc.?

...what Srallan said of the EU just six months ago:- https://youtu.be/jnN9FNZI97k

Do you have any evidence to support that? As I understand it, Norway is unable to choose which laws it can adopt or not, so long as it wants access to the common market, it must accept the laws and regulations which come with it. Without any vote, I might add.

Here is a former Norwegian finance minister talking about the 'Norwegian model' and Brexit;

This idea that we'll be able to leave and pick and choose what we want still sounds deeply unrealistic to me.

And here was me hoping this thread would have run out of steam by now. The problem is: no-one knows what opinion is right and what opinion is wrong. Opinions can be right but they can also be misleading and inaccurate. None of you will ever solve this conundrum or convince someone else you are right, and the biggest challenge, get them to admit they are wrong.

I can't do anymore, I voted yesterday!

Andy