Touratech files for insolvency
 

Spotted this via Facebook

https://www.alpentourer.eu/alpentour...venz-anmelden/

Same article at Niedereschach: 400 Arbeitsplätze bedroht: Touratech in Niedereschach meldet Insolvenz an

And at multiple other German language websites.

TT is a major HU supporter and sponsor.

Fair amount of quaking in boots going on since yesterday evening over at UKGSer.

The world is coming to an end.

Their products must have been priced too low....:rolleyes2:

insolvency? with their sky high prices and cheap materials they use for products??? obviously their salaries were also way too high :thumbdown:
nobody gonna cry, that's for sure.

This isn't the end IMHO. The boys over at the GS club have spending power.

Question is, when somone buys the name will it be more lazer cut image stuff at higher prices with even poorer service or a return to kit thats actually better? I suspect the former has more potential but like any fashion product is fickle. The fancy office and cafe seems a mad thing to do in the internet age.

I feel for the workers who won't share the sentiment of good riddance. Its all going to be more serious for them than some man child worrying where his next tank mounted ash tray will come from.

Andy

I don’t want to get into discussing the necessity of buying the products that TT sells, other than to say I’m on record as describing is as “overpriced tat”. But there seems to be a big market for TT’s products, so it needs to be satisfied.

When TT does relaunch I would definitely suggest/ remind them of 2 things:

1. Make products that work straight out of the box and don’t break right away e.g. I had to modify a alli gps TT mount with a hacksaw to make the oem Garmin powerlead fit into the Garmin device. 2 things broke on my TT tank bag on an easy gravel road in the Stans: the zipper and the mounts onto the bike doh

2. What probably annoys most people in the UK: Because of the franchise arrangement between TT HQ in Germany and TT UK, stuff costs more on the UK website (ex p and p) than on the Germany website (ex p and p). In the age of the www and 24/7 worldwide ecommerce, it’s ridiculous to have to order stuff from Germany and get it sent to a friend’s German address who then forward it on to England, all still cheaper and more quickly than trying to order it from TT UK. TT Germany refuses to post to the UK.

The postage would be even cheaper (and let’s not forget the environment if all those trees weren’t chopped down) if the customer didn’t have to pay to receive a huge paper catalog they never asked for.

I feel for the 400 workers and hope they don’t lose their jobs.

PS. I was speaking to some motorcycle friends a while ago who had just started selling motorcycle accessories and clothing online. My comment of “What, so you’re selling stuff that is proven to work and you have in stock so it can be delivered to anywhere in the world in 72 hours?” Their reply didn’t disagree with my assertion. :innocent:

Received my first ever marketing (= spam) email from TT this morning. Are the subject of this thread and this email connected?

Also unsubscribed from their mailing list that I was never, until now, subscribed to.

If they are connected it either adds a reason why they are in trouble (an over simplistic approach) or makes you think they are starting to think about the recovery.

Brand recovery is a tough one. Skoda laughing at themselves worked, but I can't think of another that's really worked.

I don't suppose the e-mail said anything new like "guaranteed same price across Europe", "all items in stock" or " three year no quibble guarantee"?

The other way is just to wait and let your existing customers support the recovery. The G310R actually got me in a BMW showroom for the first time in 13 years. I didn't buy one, but it was less of the suited reptile trying to tell me anything under a litre is for girls than I remember, so a massive improvement in how I'd rate them just by waiting long enough for bad memories to fade.

Andy

I've kept a copy of the TT catalogue in the boot of my car for years. It gets used as a pad between the jack and the bodywork so I don't scratch the paint. Recently though its had competition from the Wickes and Screwfix catalogues.

At least I occasionally buy stuff from Wickes and Screwfix but I've never bought anything from TT as I've never owned a bike they make parts for and the general purpose stuff is overpriced. If I'm going to buy mail order I might as well buy from a cheaper source.

Overpriced only works if its overpriced and convenient i.e. bottled water at the festival I've just come back from - £2.00 / bottle on site or 65p for the same bottle at Tesco's but they're three miles away. You trade a bit of money for a lot of convenience, something I've never been able to do with TT.

Anyone know the reason for their problems - the real reason that is. Is it just the tough times we live in or their flawed marketing strategy has now reached the end of someone else's money? Or maybe the phoenix will rise again leaving its debts in the ashes. Whatever the reason you have to feel some sympathy if 400 people are facing redundancy.

I like your turn of phrase "Suited reptile". I can envisage his appearance and attitude! :rofl:

No mention of anything to do with equal EU pricing, stock levels or warranties. No mention of their insolvency situation either, to put a customer's mind at rest that they'll receive the gear they've paid for.

Skoda's rebranding strapline was "The car that Volkswagen approved". I'm unable to make any suggestions for a new TT slogan. :innocent:

I really do hope those 400 workers don't suffer for the mistakes of their bosses.

Obvious now it over
 

I'm no marketing expert but if they'd used concrete Which is much cheaper than all those expensive laser cut metals they wouldn't be in this mess. And those ukgsers would have ended up with a lot more weight for a lot less money. Win win!
:oops2: did I think that then accidentally type it!

Herbert Schwarz, one of the TT founders has put out a video on social media, saying the business problem come from 2016 where the new hall (distribution centre? ) being built had major delays (= cost overruns ) and there were also software issues that caused production and distribution delays.

For the moment, production will continue as it was. There's now a new MD in charge (I presume put there by the banks) who will endeavour to get the accounts back into the black. Just like Brian Johnson taking over from Bon Scott? :cool4:

Saw this price comparison on a TT thread on a different forum:

Trick brake and gear levers: 287gbp plus postage at TT
https://shop.touratech.co.uk/ac-schn...nd-rninet.html

and

14.76gbp including postage from China at
Billet Pivot Clutch Brake Lever For Honda CRF250L CRF250M 2012-2016 Motorcycle

A 20th of the price! Maybe a time now to enter the real world of product pricing? Manufacture in China and rebadge for sale online only in Europe at the same price for all? Sadly if I were working at TT Germany, I'd be dusting down my CV/resume.

Excuse me, I'm aYorkshireman

HOW MUCH!?!

I don't envy them. A Gucci bag trumps ASDA/Walmart/Netto, not because it maybe lasts longer but because people can bring themselves to think it is a work of art, an icon. I struggle to see how a gearlever can do this even away from the "spend it on petrol" community we have here and amongst a shall we say more Starbucks friendly crowd.

I think the shipping department need to learn about bringing stuff from China thats thrir highest quality and the design department need to draw something no one has thought of.

Andy

Just spotted this press release from Nick Plumb, the TT UK head honcho, released yesterday:

https://www.adventurebikerider.com/t...y-application/

That's a relief then!

Fun to read the ?c? s at the bottom of the article too...

Oh, that's all right then, it's nothing serious, only insolvency. They'll soon overcome that little setback and be back to business as usual.

How serious do commercial f*ck-ups have to be before a company actually shuts its doors for good. This kind of revolving door bankruptcy where your sins are left behind and you come out with a clean slate seems to be more a management technique for overcoming previous bad decisions or an opportunity to make awkward adjustments without taking the blame. "Sorry you're all being made redundant, it's nothing to do with me, the bank forced it on me as a condition of the restructuring". "You can of course apply for the many exciting retail positions we'll have available shortly. Send in your CVs and we'll have a look".

Makes me wonder whether TT UK might have to be sending their corporate CV over to Germany when the Phoenix rises.

A friend suggested to me that this type of insolvency filing is often used in today's corporate environment. Apart from the 400 TT staff who should be dusting down their CVs, the workers at their supplier companies might also want to take note if TT are now legally able to prescribe they can only pay e.g. 30% of what they owe...

An aside, the short fingered, orange fella who resides at #1600 Pennsylvania Ave NW has apparently also done this insolvency shuffle thing twice in his business career. Seems not to have done him any harm. :nono::blushing:

On that basis it seems hardly worth sending out a press release. They could just stick it on the annual calendar:

Dec - xmas party
Mar - shut 2 days for stocktaking
May - customer open day
July - insolvency week. Staff on holiday.
Oct - annual sale

Remember Hein Gericke
 

The worldly-aware realise that this is standard practice across all corporations nowadays.
Every nation has their own way of dealing with it, but letting corporations off their responsibilties is the name of the game, alongside "privatise the profits and socialise the losses (via taxpayers)".
"Financilisation" is the key word for the way of this world; staff are expendible, there being plenty more where they came from.

It's a few years since, but I well recall talking with many levels of Hein Gericke staff based in the UK, including one of their franchisees - they had no idea what was happening with that parent company; Mr Plumb is in the same position.

From TT UK or TT DE?

I'd be very surprised if it was DE, and of course there's a big difference.

It was from DE.

An aside, I've never had any commercial interaction with UK so they won't have my email details.

Screenshot below....

not to start or continue an argument, but my expereince with TT stuff so far has been good. GPS mount for the vstrom and a set of zega pros. i purchased both through a germany-based online retailer and even with shipping to the US, paid over 30% than if i had purchased from TT US.

of course, everyone has their own experiences and not all products are equal.

regarding the levers mentioned above, i bought a set of quite expensive ASV C5 levers for the strom and then spotted a set of chinese ones on flea bay. ordered up the flea bay levers with the intention of returning the ASV levers. well, that plan was changed INSTANTLY once i had my fingers on the chino levers. total junk. rough edges, poor fit, flimsy feel. sold the chino levers with a disclaimer that i felt they were an inferior product and kept the ASV lever, which have been simply brilliant for the past 6 years.

sometimes (not always) you get what you pay for. and of course, sometimes, you pay a lot for what is supposed to be a top product and you get bent over.

That last bit about sums it up from what I've seen of TT items on many friends
BMW GS's and Triumphs in person. In USA, we are lucky to have a new generation of small, independent fabricators like ASV and many others. Some stuff made in USA, some made in China but US design.

Some TT items seem good, some not so much, but always way expensive for what the item is.

I wonder where most TT products are actually made? Anyone actually visited the production facility in Germany (or anywhere)?

Is British TourTech independent of TT Germany? Or linked? If so, how?
A subsidiary? Franchise? or wholly owned independent company?

I'd be very surprised if ALL TT products were made in Germany. I'm just guessing, but isn't it likely they already have "farmed out" production of many items to China? ... and they still went belly up. :helpsmilie:

The Nick Plumb statement is clear enough about business as usual: try buying at lower European prices and they send the boyos round!

TT UK are a separate company, a distributor with a deal to sell the stuff, use the logo's etc.

Andy

A little "clarification" that may help:

1: TT Germany are not "bankrupt". They are "insolvent" which means they have a cash flow problem. Under German law the designation means that they can restructure, sort out the debt and how to pay it in a timely manner to the satisfaction of all, and move on without pressure to pay bills "today". They could have simply stopped paying bills - or delayed for months - and fired a lot of staff and eventually might have been ok, but took the moral route and are doing it the right way.

2: The reason all this has happened is that they had so much demand they couldn't produce it in their old factory, which was bursting at the seams - I've seen it, it was FULL! So, they built a new building, but there were a number of issues from software to getting equipment setup as planned - and there were a lot of delays in the end, so production didn't ramp up till much later than planned. So, no production, not enough product to sell, unhappy customers, not enough money flowing in to pay the bills, especially the 10 million euros for the building.

If they hadn't built the new factory they wouldn't have been able to fill all the orders, so they were between a rock and a hard place. I think they made the right - if not the ONLY decision they could make, and went for the new factory to better serve their customers, but things didn't go according to plan. Anyone who has ever managed a project knows how that happens! :(

3: Products - ALL their TT-branded products are made in the EU, because that creates jobs at home, not in China, AND means that the quality is the best possible, and changes and improvements can be implemented quickly. Yes it means that prices will be higher than if it came from China, so make your choice - top quality gear that uses the best available materials and engineering or cheap knock-offs from China using unknown materials that may or may not snap at the first blink.

4: Related to that is that no jobs are at risk at this point so far as we know. They need all the staff they have, and I know that they are looking for MORE, in order to fulfill all their orders and get production up to where they can keep up with the demand. Could some people lose their jobs? Sure, it's possible, but wholesale losses very unlikely.

For our part, we've known all the top people at Touratech for years and many of the staff, as well as a number of the distributors, wish them all well and are confident they can sort it out and get rolling again at full speed. They're great people doing their very best to supply top quality gear - made in Europe.

I've been there many times, talked to the designers and production people, and can confirm that ALL TT BRANDED products are made in the EU. That is a central tenet of their business philosophy and you can be assured it is true.

IMPORTANT NOTE: They also sell NON TT branded products such as MSR, Thermarest and many others that are made who knows where - much of it in China. They don't make tents, mattresses etc. so for the convenience of their customers they bring in what they feel is the best available product and sell it on. You can choose to buy it at your local TT distributor with a TT barcode on it, knowing that it came from the manufacturer to TT DE and on to TT in Country X - and it WILL be more - OR you can buy it locally from a local retailer who brings it in via a less circuitous route and it will probably be cheaper. Take your pick. Check your prices as always.

All TT distributors are completely separate companies that buy product from TT DE and sell it on, at their chosen markup, which will depend on duties, shipping costs, and cost of doing business in their home location PLUS what they want for a profit margin. They get exclusive rights to an area/country in exchange for promoting, advertising and stocking the vast range of TT products, and dealing with warranty etc.


Absolutely not, AND they have NOT gone belly up - read my post above for clarification on that.

I´m significantly pissed off by comments on the net like "nobody will cry when TT goes down". I´ve been ordering stuff from TT since 2007, shelling out about €10.000 on equipment for family´s five bikes. No, I´ve not always been happy or impressed with the quality and I´ve told them more than one time that the coating of carriers and engine bars suck. But I´ve been even less impressed with stuff I´ve been ordering from Wunderlich, SW Motech and other competitors and most of the time ended up with chosing TT products. What I have been impressed of was the constant, customer-oriented support I received from TT, directly at their shop in Niedereschach, by phone, by mail and by practical help. No mail was left unanswered, every call was returned, on one occasion even on late saturday afternoon. For testing within a German KTM forum community they have provided me with some expensive gear and they have been absolutely great to work with if there ever was a defect in a product, even after the European statutory 2 year warranty (something most U.S. folks cannot even begin to believe existing, unless you´re shopping at Land´s End). I own some U.S. made stuff like a bash plate from AltRider and am equally happy with that stuff and their support.

I´ve been living in Detroit for some years, however, and my experience with U.S. dealers in general was in a number of cases absolutely horrible, especially on electronics like computers, appliances and other household goods, and mostly I felt like being asked by the dealer to bend over for him to have fun with me when I tried to return some defective product to a shop after a couple of months only, so I know first hand what real manufacturer/seller-backed product support means. Finally let´s not forget TT´s generosity with the TT Travel Events, which are one of the most-awaited yearly bike events for travellers and f*ing free of charge. At that time, their huge production facilities in southern Germany are open for visitors, too and if one is lucky like me, you meet Susan and Grant there.

I´m a traveller, having spent about 200.000km on the road with TT stuff and I for one would be heartbroken for the good people at TT if they would go down. For those of you who ride old, reliable workhorses like an original Africa Twin or an F650GS - there won´t be many options for accessories left when TT would be gone; they still support bikes which their manufacturers and TT´s competitors barely remember.

I agree with Grant´s analysis (having some professional knowledge about the subject). However, what Herbert and the folks now need is not being kicked ass publicly from people who could never afford a BMW and then spit at every Beemer crossing their path, but they need a show of support, right here, right now. What I´m saying is: If we need stuff for next season, let´s not delay the order but place it now. If you like to support this view, check out the #touratech tweet from @ChrisKnust
Cheers
Chris

:rofl: Thank you for your factual and balanced analysis of the situation. doh

Keks says a lot that is very factual and balanced, unfortunately as ALL of us are prone to, he may ;) have injected a little hyperbole into his comments. Doesn't make the rest of it any less factual, and I agree with the rest of his comments, especially supporting Touratech when they're down. We ALL want a strong aftermarket - even BMW / KTM / Ducati etc do, as it's all part of the ecosystem that we all love. Touratech was there with adventure riding products before it was called that, and are a big part of helping it grow. MANY travellers have some TT bits on their bike and are happy with them.

The amount of negativity towards BMW, Touratech and any other "successful" company always amazes me.:thumbdown: All of us want to be successful and "make it" but we're all too good at the "tall poppy syndrome" as the Aussies call it - anyone who stands above the crowd tends to get their head chopped off.

You don't like someone's products don't buy it, but there's no need to call them names, they're just people like you and me trying to make a living, with varying degrees of success.

In the meantime, yes, let's support Touratech and help them recover and get through the current situation with as little pain as possible. There's a lot of great people there who could use your support.

Well said, why would I not want the opportunity to buy their products, whether I chose to or not?
TT have pushed the whole adventure bike sector forward and given us more choice. In general I tend to shop elsewhere but I bear them no ill will. I hope they survive and continue giving us more choices.

To be fair, what also worked for Skoda was making good products and being better value than their competitors.