Is this thread even serious?

I don't like how one would distinguish themselves from other people.

Next to that, when properly overlanding, this question becomes irrelevant. For us, overlanding is going remote where there are no campsites anyway. So either you camp somewhere for free (bushcamping is the best), or you decide to stay in a hotel.

"You're not a real adventurer!"

"No, *YOU'RE* not a real adventurer!"

"NO, YOU!"

...

*swipe left*

I'm not a real adventurer. I'm just a tourist on a motorbike who sometimes sleeps in a tent. :mchappy:

As a moderator, I'll just observe that the terms of use for this site require that all users--this includes everyone contributing to this thread--exercise restraint when critiquing the posts, proclivities, politics and preferences of other members.

Please feel free to contact me by private message or email with questions about what this means with reference to your own posts. In the meantime: disagreements are fine, but personal attacks are not.

Thanks to all, and particular thanks to those keeping it civil in earlier posts on this thread.

Mark

travelling is a privilege
 

I live in NZ where a lot of (mostly younger) tourists hire a car or camper then travel the country for several weeks, possibly months.

NZ has many freedom camp sites, but these tourists have created outrage amongst locals because they seem to expect free camping everywhere. They leave human waste at the road side or car park (even when toilets have been provided) & they don't care if they ruin someone else's holiday. They too also want free wifi and hot showers.

This summer, a German couple made the headlines because they visited the local soup kitchen to get free food - when it is actually there for the homeless! :thumbdown:

Your post seems to imply there is no cost to maintain a camp site which is ridiculous. Should these people work for free on your behalf? They are running a business, not a charity. They have rates, bank charges and salaries to pay, the land and it's machinery to maintain, food to buy, school expenses for their kids, their own transport & a home to maintain. What part of all that can be run on 5 euros?

In NZ, the Dept of Conservation provides amazing rural camp sites & payment varies from Free to $20pp. The basic sites usually have a long-drop toilet but no other facilities. DOC spends a lot of money maintaining these sites. Staying there is a privilege - DOC could easily close the land to the public and let nature take it's course.

I'm personally sick of people expecting to tour the world for nothing, leaving a trail of devastation on the environment. Should I pay my council more $ in rates so you can camp here for free? :censored:

If you want access to the internet - buy more data.
If you want a hot shower - pay for it at a swimming pool centre.
Alternatively, book into a B&B.

Travelling is a privilege. There are millions in the world who can't afford to send their kids to school, so if you can afford to travel then you can afford to pay for camping.

As a biker, I would like to believe bikers are more aware of saving our beautiful world, however, it's not true, there are many bikers who are just as self-engrossed as their fellow 4-wheeled tourists.

JMHO

FAIR????? Life ain't fair, son. Get used to it.

And get used to the fact (FACT) that YOU, like everyone else on the planet, are a unit of economic activity to our lords and masters (that would be the bankers).

Prices are determined by markets +/- the business sense of the owner; that's it. "Fair" don't come into it.

Elaine, as you know Australia has a similar, larger but in some ways less developed system of free and low cost campsites made available on the basis that there are rules about length of stay and whether the vehicle has to be self-contained or not - and similarly, the system is invariably abused by those who believe their rights are more important than their responsibilities. Many of these travelers/backpackers come from Europe where France and Germany and a couple of others also have aires and stellplatz which have similar rules, but the big difference there seems to me that anyone whose vehicle or standards of behavior doesn't comply will either be given their marching orders by other campers or the police.

When I was helping out on iOverlander I had to respond to many emails from town councils or village representatives in South America pleading for help against the tribe of grubs who were intent in trashing overloaded camping areas, or trespassing, or encroaching on wildlife nesting areas, so the first world isn't the only one to suffer.

As for the original premise that every traveler should pay 6 euro per night, I'd restate my assertion that it is just not realistic to try and sum up the entire world in one fixed camping fee when you consider the huge range of living costs and standards of living and the great range of locations where one might want to camp. I've seen ioverlander entries where people happily paid US$55 a night to pitch a tent along the Californian coast while others whose budget obviously makes their day to day living quite precarious, object hugely to a camping fee equating to little more than a dollar a night per site and insist on haggling over it or storming off in protest.

In my own case, I actually regard having to pay 12 Euro a night for Betty and myself quite excessive and my ideal outlay for a perfect camping spot that ticks all of my boxes is actually zero dollars and zero cents - and that applies in all countries whether it is the USA, Central Europe or Bolivia or Morocco. Generally we succeed as you can see at https://get.google.com/albumarchive/...aDxXw-TqICg7hF and average costs per night for those 350 sites, and a few hundred others as well would be so close to zero as doesn't matter.

However, there are places where it isn't convenient to free camp so if luckily there is camping available, I'm quite happy to pay a reasonable price for reasonable facilities yet there are whingers who really don't understand the basics of position, position, position and supply and demand and get very very sulky when they have to pay the price asked. Fairly often they then write indignant letters to iOverlander demanding action and fairly often, since I had stayed there, it gave me a fair bit of pleasure to tell them to go bite their bum.

Yes, I mentioned vehicle repairs earlier as it suffers from the same wide variations in quality and price throughout the world and there are some travelers who believe that even in a capital city at a workshop with some of the highest recommendations from overlanders anywhere in the world, they are entitled to get first class service at a similar hourly rate to that offered by a poor tyre repairer on a dusty back road. What some don't realise is that there are many such businesses who go to great lengths to give overlanders superlative service and jump them to the front of a very long queue so when some ungrateful complains about paying ten dollars extra for instant service then it is quite on the cards that the obliging business owner will decide to shut the doors to overlanders. We have lost a couple of places like that, one of whom gave me the most fantastic service I have ever experienced. Yes, we paid the price, but in fact saved plenty because the boss arranged free accommodation for us. Now that workshop is off-limits.

Said quite a lot.




Bears don't camp in one place and shit 10 feet away and leave toilet paper and wet wipes strewn everywhere. They don't leave fire scars all over the grass and they don't throw bottles and cans around. Nor do they cut live trees down and try to burn them in their smoky fire.


Silly comparison

Travel isn't a right, especially into other countries. Which country allows totally free access to everyone? Vatican?

Honestly, I had no intention to create such a controversial discussion that became social, national, political etc.

It was just another stupid humorous article about the vain life of overlanders. Nobody owes to overlanders anything, overlanders are not special and overlanders definitely dont deserve anything.

(Tony keeps mentioning here at HUBB the iOverlander garage story that nobody is aware, I dont know why. [snip])

+10000