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Quote:

Originally Posted by mollydog (Post 525489)

Pure ignorance. You're living in a fool's paradise. Look at the science, do some reading ... and check out the history. Nothing to worry about?
:rofl: What? Me Worry? :rofl:

We knew this was coming back in 1977 when I landed in a Twin Otter on a Tabular ice berg the size of New Hampshire. (1/3 size of UK?) Also the year they discovered a hole in the Ozone among other things we did that year.

I supported Glaciologists (and many other scientists from many disciplines) in Antarctic from '76 to '79. They knew little back then ... but have learned a whole lot more since. The rapid changes that are now well documented are unprecedented ... and show things that normally would take thousands (or ten's of thousands) of years to occur are happening all the time.
And that's a fact.

I remember interviewing a 89 year old Fisherman in Peru' in 1975.
This back when the first "El Nino" was happening. This old guy said he'd never seen anything like it ... and nothing similar had happened during his or his Fathers' lifetime (Father lived into his 80's).

More recently in Peru', they've had massive Fish die offs no one can explain. Tens of millions of dead Fish. Explain please. :innocent:

So nearly 200 years (a spec in geologic time) of personal experience from some modest fisherfolk of Peru'. What does it mean?
These guys spend their life at sea in small boats. The changes the old man saw he could not believe nor explain. He could only cry.

At the time I had no idea what climate change or global warming was, but we sure as Hell could see something was up and knew this old guy was not making any of this up.

Since then much has been uncovered, studied and proven. 90% of serious, credentialed scientists believe Climate Change is real ... and have PROOF. What's your proof? The Bible? :rofl:

Are ALL these scientists being "paid off"? Are they Commie Rats? And why are the oil companies trying so hard (and spending millions) to shut them up! doh (but can't!) ?c?

It's real folks. Get used to it. This is not some Hippy conspiracy. But back to the question ... how will you get on your bike and ride once the world begins to fall into chaos? Govts. collapse, infrastructure fails and there is no one around to
"Fix things"? :oops2:

Man, thou doth protest too much.

Take the Californian chill pill for the new year.

By the way, it's not real - it is just one more belief system, just as the religion that you tend to belittle.
Throughout the very short history of science, real science that is, the large majority beliefs at any one time have usually been wrong, dead wrong.
A small minority have persevered and eventually published the true state of knowledge.
In recent history of science, the politicians are well ahead of you in this and have taken over the agenda while paying off the academics to write junk science and muzzling the academic "non-violent extremists" via the use of administrators and top down managers.
It equates to the Spanish Inquisition of just a few hundred years ago but now perpetrated by slightly more subtle means.
In this way, the politicians have seen that the fear they need to instill in their populations in order to control them can be continued indefinitely via their own brand of new world order.

Your use of the word "denier" is typical of this whole process - sad to say, but you should take an unblinkered look at what is going on in your own academic institutions in the USA.

it's amazing how naive people are believing in every "scientific" study published
not even questioning who funded it :rofl:

p.s.
It's very easy to manipulate uneducated people and the lowering of public education standards in recent years is not a coincidence. That should be alarming, not climate change. doh

Quote:

Originally Posted by tremens (Post 525506)

i
It's very easy to manipulate uneducated people and the lowering of public education standards in recent years is not a coincidence. That should be alarming, not climate change. doh

I hardly touched on this aspect in my last post but it is far more troubling than the man made myths put about by governments, spin doctors, PR gurus, advertising agencies, NGOs with vested interests and the main stream media including the TV channels.

It also needs to be recognised that the likes of the BBC news, including the world news output, is also complicit in the dumbing down of the information provided to populations.

Knowledge, real knowledge, is power; so don't let the plebiscite get too close to it!

I don't worry about it for I have realised it is all self regulating.
Take fishing for instance, bigger and bigger boats taking bigger and bigger catches. They play around with quotas, but in the end it does not matter at all. One day a fishing boat will take the last big shoal of its target fish and there will be no more. The fishermen will go broke, the boat scrapped and in a hundred years or so the fish will start to return.

Same with climate. All hoo ha about emissions, never a word about all the trees we have lost. Each one a little solar powered factory removing carbon and other pollutants,(about two tons a year each), freeing pure oxygen for us to breathe and storing and controlling the water that now floods freely. Eventually the world will become uninhabitable thus removing the root cause of the problem. It will recover.

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldbmw (Post 525508)

There is good sensible science in among the mumbo jumbo and I do subscribe to sensible regulation to control the release of pollutants, as just one example, lead free petrol.
But, as outlined in my earlier posts, and it is just a bare bones outline, the agenda has been perverted by powerful interests to serve their own ends.

Regarding trees; take a quick look at the current policy for generating electrical power at Drax power station to see the folly of "unintended consequences".

Its alarming how many millions have been suckered into the complete fiction of religion over the millennia or do you believe that religion is fact because it wasn't funded by a Government?

Climate Change is well established scientific fact, it's the extent of mans influence on the natural process that is still an emerging science.

OldBMW is spot on, the planet will eventually recover with or without us here to see it

(Good to see the HuBB Pub is started the New Year at a low point)

Read this interview with James Lovelock:

James Lovelock: 'enjoy life while you can: in 20 years global warming will hit the fan' | Environment | The Guardian

there is not much more to be said really. Although I don't agree with his belief that nuclear power will help us.

The problem, IMHO is the Earth is grossly over populated with people and the consequential effect is climate change and mass extinction of other species. The change is taking place now and so it will continue.

As for independent travel by motorcycle / car etc. I think that has a limited future. So enjoy it while you can.

Quote:

Originally Posted by plainshorse (Post 525513)

Thanks for the reminder; it's been a while since I heard about his Gaia theory, and I see that he is now aged 88.

I guess Lovelock doesn't get too much public scrutiny nowadays, whereas the guy who runs the web site below has had that very thing in some quarters of the UK, recently.
Welcome

It has been said that the UN has a policy about the world population; I haven't gone too far into that but there is a very interesting presentation by a Swedish medical doctor and statistician about population growth - it's worth a look; along the way he touchs on the subject of ignorance especially among university graduates fed on conventional "wisdom".

Hans Rosling is the docs name and the video is called something like "Don't panic" (he is an optimist).

ps
His 1 hour vid is named Don't panic and it can be seen via various outlets (thanks internet!).
Gapminder is one source of the vid which also tends to bring up reference to the short talks produced under the moniker "TED" - they can also be of interest.

Is Pluto a planet or a moon?

Rather weirdly, no one appears to have argued, strongly anyway, about "man made" global consequences (anthropomorphic effects).

I saw a report recently - apologies, I didn't take much notice at the time - to wit all of the planets in our wee solar system are currently changing "climate".

I'll leave the astrophysicists among the HUBB to discuss further, but is Pluto getting warmer or colder?

Piers Corbyn is very likely getting more media attention due to his brother becoming Labour Leader! heaven forbid politics come into it :Lol:

Here we have "Scientist" who refuses to publish the methodology of his forecasts for independent review. Appeared on Channel 4's The Great Climate Change Swindle as Dr Piers Corbyn despite not actually holding any doctorate.

Peer Review of his forecasts concluded

"The results provide little evidence to dismiss the observed success rates as being attributable to mere chance or good fortune"

And the final stunner he has been funded by the oil industry to counter climate change science. Not like there's an agenda behind the oil industries funding is there!

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheWarden (Post 525522)

Oh Ok, but the "green movement" is not an industry itself? Do you really think all these billion dollar green plants are built by people who want nothing more than to help the planet? Hell no, those investments are made by people who want to make money as well, and so they do, big money some are evn *Shudder* the big oil companies themselves.

Some history for ya, market dictates more than anything else, that means YOU!
Big Oil And Renewables: Not So Strange Bedfellows - NASDAQ.com

I also attached a picture of early climate change, you know, before mankind.

Some interesting points made here. Without wanting to target individual replies, I would like to remark on the following...

- Some people may have difficulty in appreciating the difference between what they themselves don't know and what science itself doesn't know;

- The media twist and exaggerate all stories, there is always an agenda. It is indeed always necessary to see who funds what research. Academia is of course subject to market forces and differences in opinion;

- I'm not sure if science is a belief system, I think this depends upon how the individual approaches it; there is plenty of bad science out there (e.g. the pseudo-science theories that appeal to certain types of 'believer'), but somehow, as has been observed, the better science tends to last. Unlike religion, science relies on evidence and can evolve;

- Anyone coming from a religious standpoint is obviously happy to believe in certain things without having any evidence for them, so it seems odd to then come to the dialectic criticising others for their lack of evidence;

- I think we can all see that the climate is changing; most likely augmented to some unknown extent by anthropogenic activity, flippancy is easy in those whose homes and livelihoods are not affected by an increase in climate variability or rising sea levels.

- People have been predicting a 'population bomb' since at least the 1960s: mass famines, armageddon etc etc but so far it has yet to come to light. Almost everywhere in the world people are living healthier, longer lives now than ever before.

But back to the original thought; no, I don't think this will have any real effect on overland travel!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walkabout (Post 525516)

Hans Rosling is the docs name and the video is called something like "Don't panic" (he is an optimist).

ps
His 1 hour vid is named Don't panic and it can be seen via various outlets (thanks internet!).
Gapminder is one source of the vid which also tends to bring up reference to the short talks produced under the moniker "TED" - they can also be of interest.

Thanks for that. I found it rather an eye opener. It's a bit lengthy but very well explained and I'd advise any one a look at that.

Don’t Panic – The Facts About Population

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dutchgit (Post 525525)

Thanks for that. I found it rather an eye opener. It's a bit lengthy but very well explained and I'd advise any one a look at that.

Don’t Panic – The Facts About Population

An eye opener for me also.

While it is very easy to forget specific statistics, I particularly recall his reference to both washing machines and the pedal cycle.

I think he does have some shorter presentations in the TED series, but the 1 hour version remains the bees knees.

Quote:

Originally Posted by eurasiaoverland (Post 525524)

- People have been predicting a 'population bomb' since at least the 1960s, mass famines, armageddon etc etc but so far it has yet to come to light. Almost everywhere in the world people are living healthier, longer lives now than ever before.

Hans Rosling expounds on this very eloquently.

Meanwhile, Geldof the showman, et al other "celebrities", have a lot to answer for.