Ypres is no more :( according to Garmin.
 

The Garmin 2859 I bought had to be returned to Amazon because it died, after twice promising to replace it they eventually agreed to refund the cost.

The only one I could see in Argos was a Garmin drive 6.

It is useless, a trip from my place to a friend in Antwerp I reckon on 500 miles, but its route was 714 miles plus it couldn't do it without using toll roads even though I had them disabled.

Thinking to visit tyne cot war memorial I tried putting it in as a way point as the only way I could get a sensible route was to create a trip. Sadly its repertoire does not include Ypres or Leper although it does show it on the map.

I had the impression that a sat nav would find a reasonable route from where you are to a destination. I find myself using Via Michelin to plan the route, then spend an happy hour or so forcing it to create a trip for that route. But the thing is nuts, the rn154 is dual carriageway, yet with faster time and no tolls selected it takes you off the dual carriageway to route you through Evereux which takes longer and is further on single track roads.

Incidentally Viamichelin finds a route from my place to Antwerp in 480 miles and no tolls.

I despair.

I think it must be something to do with that area of northern France / Belgium being shifted into some kind of parallel universe as my (now very ancient) Tom Tom seems to go berserk there as well. I now switch it off anywhere within about 30 miles of Cambrai as it's routed me into shopping centre car parks, dead end streets and and along old Chaussée Brunehaut footpaths. It once routed me down someone's gravel drive, around the fountain in front of their somewhat imposing house and back out again.

Anywhere south of Reims and it's ok but between there and Calais I'm rediscovering the joys of paper maps again ...

Use your phone. Google maps and streets lets you write the route. Paper or notes to display it, navigator to do the difficult bits near the end. Just as accurate and almost free.

300 quid boxes bolted on 200 hundred quid bits of laser cut aluminium are so noughties and just havn't kept up.

Andy

I use the app called HERE. It can be run offline and is totally accurate. It's owned by Nokia and is totally free on android devices. Excellent app, easy to use and very reliable. There are of course other apps too that are free but I like this one.

That's because there's no such towns in Belgium. The name is Ieper (with an 'I', not an 'L').

100% correct...:thumbup1:

Many years ago when I was (slightly more) naive about such matters and we were doing our first battlefields trip (not long after the 50th anniversary) I thought that was another town somewhere nearby.

I don't know anything about their local politics but is there a Derry / Londonderry element to this or is it just that nobody from outside the region can pronounce it. Even the town's website changes the name depending on which language you select - Ieper (Dutch), Ypres (English + French) and Ypern (German).

:thumbup1:

T.E. Lawrence had something to say about Arabic translations into English to his editor about the comments made before publication of "Seven Pillars of Wisdom" when asked about the many different spellings of the name of one camel he rode... he responded with something like "only seven, if I had of know I would have included more variations, the translation of Arabic into English is so" etc.

Be thankfull that there are so little variation in the names we now deal with.

Maps in dual (and in some cases more) languages can be found ... usefull if you understand one and the 'natives' understand the other and both can 'read' a map. Having a map (GPS or otherwise) that is in your language is fine .. if your the only one to use it and don't want to use it to ask questions of locals that don't understand that language. There are moves to make some OSM maps in dual languages ... but it will be a while happening.

As general rule I only use satnav "as and when required" like in cities to find a pre booked hotel etc...

I've had some frustrating times with phones too as the instruction to turn right comes just after the right turn on occasions.

I realised my old sat nav was an idiot and I was an even bigger idiot, when I followed directions into a private underground car park. Naturally I had entered the point of no return just as the automatic shutter closed after a car had exited. 40 mins can seem like a lifetime when you a waiting..... :rofl:

Those unfortunate Pals that Kitchener sent to their slaughter there 100 years ago called the place Wipers.

If spelling words isn't your (not aimed at Mr Back Of, but at anyone reading this thread :) ) strong point, other navigation options, call me old fashioned, include:

• Look at a map
• Ask directions
• Follow road signs
• Use a compass

In my (extensive) experience of things GPS-mapping software, Garmin maps are (usually) ok in North America and western Europe. Everywhere else Garmin maps are utterly useless.

Best is to download (legitimately) free maps from OSM and plug them into your device. Some can be a bit quirky, but using common sense (and the list above), very very good value and detailed.

Maybe of interest: Satnav orders German into toilet • The Register

If you're at a loose end on Remembrance Sunday (or any other day....), maybe visit one of the many memorials in the UK to the Pals.

Sorry Tim, but that doesn't work either, soon as I get to le the p is not longer available :(

so, anyone got the co-ordinates for Tyne cot carpark ????

Google Maps says Tyne Cot Cemetery is at 50.8874336,2.9986909

(Menin Gate is at 50.8519937,2.8889439)

The car park is to the east see OpenStreetMap | Way: ‪Tyne Cot CWGC Cemetery‬ (‪193481077‬)

So car park about 50.88722,3.00202

Name in some other languages beer

Tynecot militaire begraafplaats,

בית הקברות הצבאי טיין
קוט :helpsmilie:

Menin Gate
OpenStreetMap | Relation: ‪Menin Gate‬ (‪2458288‬) 50.85203,2.89109
Menenpoort
Menin-porten
Мененські ворота

Ieper http://www.openstreetmap.org/relatio...50.8662/2.8727 50.8662,2.8727
Names in the OSM data base;
name local Ieper
name:cs Ypry
name:de Ypern
name:en Ypres
name:fr Ypres
name:lv Ipra
name:nl Ieper
name:ru Ипр
name:sv Ypern

I don't know if all of these names get added to OSM GPS maps so you might be able to search for them by your native language...

I always wondered how anyone between 1st July 1916 and the day the Garmin GPS was invented ever found out how to get there, be it their final resting place, or the car park.

Fewer people, roads, intersections. But mileage markers, more usefull road signs - thought smaller so you'd actually stop to read them - and a rough map.

In remote parts of Australia farms (homesteads) would paint their names on the roof to help planes find their way, some of them still do. Road visitors would stop in and ask .. as well as passing on upto date news.

I have just completed a five month 28000 km trip through east and west Europe and had very few troubles navigating using a Garmin GPS (590)

My route preference was minor / back roads with almost no motorway / major highway riding
There were a few ocassions when the Garmin took me on a "more interesting" route however these were the exception rather than the norm

Similar experience in Australia and New Zealand - can't comment on accuracy in other parts of the world - will be testing this next year!

Probably weren't that many people there on 1st July 1916 - those early model paper sat-navs had everyone around 100 miles further south, "cursing their staff for incompetent swine" to misquote Siegfried Sassoon.

My 1905 Baedeker for the area refers to the town as Ypres in a kind of shout loud if they don't understand you way and recommends I visit the impressive cathedral and the cloth hall. Doesn't help me to get there though; the stupid book doesn't even mention the motorway. :rofl:

The majority of Kitchener's Pals died on 1st July 1916. So, yes they were definitely in the wrong place that day. But they were at Wipers.

They certainly were at the wrong place at the wrong time but it wasn't Wipers on 1st July. Most of them were part of the 31st Division attacking the Serre area on the Somme 80 miles to the south east of Ypres. Was it the Leeds Pals described as "two years in the making and 10 mins in the destroying" (can't remember who said it)?

The only significant military action in the Ypres area in 1916 was a German attack about a month earlier aimed at capturing the "high" ground of hills 61 and 62 to improve their observation ability. The defending troops were mostly Canadian and suffered 8500 casualties over the two weeks of the battle. That's almost unimaginable now but its vanished into the shadows of history compared to what was going on at Verdun at the same time, what happened on the Somme a few weeks later and at Ypres / Passchendaele the following year.

I'll stand corrected on that point of history/geography. Thanks.

I tagged along on a classic bike club ride out on Remembrance Sunday to the Leeds Pals Memorial a couple of years ago and it was very saddening to acknowledge that of the thousand or so Leeds Pals who went to France only 47 (if I remember correctly the son of one of the very few that lived) survived. Most were killed between 1st and 3rd July 2016.

Every model of garmin seems to have different maps and routing strategies. My old 2590 is better at finding routes, but it definitely has a preference for roads narrower than 6ft. It also dislikes using the same route to and fro anywhere. The drive 60 shares Quite a bit with the both will cop out of plotting a route without tolls and both like to make inexplicable detours (on one route nearly 300KM)
The point is I want a device where I can enter the address and have the device navigate a reasonable route to it. The difference from my place to a friends using Via michelin and garming is in excess of 230 miles plus the garmin still has to use toll roads as it can't find a route without. in essence I dare not follow it as even when I have created routes it will turn off dual carriageways in order to explore the surrounding countryside. Maps are great for pre planning routes but not easy on bike or car for navigation. Also if you pre plan a route, it will always take you to the start of the trip before setting off to your destination. so if you avoid a detour it sulks and takes you back to your start point so you can do the whole journey its way.

I found the address of Tyne cot not using the name Ypres so I now have a destination. but I could not have found it whilst on the road.

That 230 extra miles in UK terms is akin to selecting Birmingham from Portsmouth and finding it has routed you via Bristol and Yarmouth. Utterly unacceptable.

while you are in the area, don't miss the opportunity to also visit:
- the last post ceremony at the Menin Gate in Ypres
- the German cemetery in Vladslo with the "Mourning Parents" statue of Käthe Kollwitz
- the Ijzer tower in Ypres
- the John McCrae site in Boezinge

The whole historical area around Ypres is well signed, and you will find many free brochures and maps are available at the various historic sites. Just pick up a map, and use it to locate the sites you want to visit... then program the various waypoints into your GPS by scrolling around the GPS display, and dropping waypoints.

Michael

Thanks for that as although I have been there several times I have not visited several of the places you mention so in February 2017 I make sure I visit them.
Having taken my grandson several years ago which made an impression on him this time I am taking my two younger ones as I consider we owe it to those that died that we are ensure that future generations never forget the sacrifice they made.