Border? Portugal-Spain-Portugal
 

Hi,
I'm planning to fly from the U.S. to Lisbon, to rent a bike in Portugal in October 2022 to ride around Portugal and possibly into Spain and back. The duration of the trip depends on whether we go to Spain.

Though this seems as though it should be utterly simple, I'm having some difficulty getting good and current information on whether there is any difficulty for a non-EU citizen riding across the Portugal-Spain border and back.

Is my difficulty finding information because there's nothing to it, like riding between N. Ireland and the Republic or between states in the U.S.?

Also, any other tips or suggestions for traveling in those two countries would be much appreciated!

Thanks in advance.


- Brad

I am not an expert on custom transit, I am just a Spanish guy who has travel a lot between Spain and Portugal, and you have to know that there is no border control in Spain or Portugal, because we are in the European Union.

Thanks very much! This is just what I needed to know.:D

Brad:

Once you (as a US citizen) enter the Schengen visa area, you can travel freely between all of the Schengen countries.

Occasionally, you might encounter a "pop-up" border control, but those kind of things are primarily for customs (not immigration) control of European citizens, for example, to catch folks bringing marijuana into Germany from Netherlands, or meat/milk into Switzerland from Germany. There's not much motivation to smuggle anything between Spain & Portugal, so it is very unlikely you will encounter a pop-up customs control on that border.

I'm a Canadian citizen & ride extensively through Europe several times a year. I've never encountered an immigration control from one Schengen country into another, but maybe once every 2 or 3 years I might encounter a customs control.

Unless you pay attention to signs at the side of the road, you won't even know that you have crossed from Portugal into Spain or vice-versa.

* * * * * *

As for "tips on where to go", if you are in the north of Portugal there is some great riding in the Galicia area, which is the part of Spain that is directly north of Portugal. Superb mountains, great roads.

There is really nothing worth seeing in Spain if you are south of about halfway between Porto and Lisbon. South of that point, western Spain is very lightly populated, towns are few and far between, and the area is mostly near-desert - think of what it is like riding in rural Nevada, USA.

But in the north - in fact, anywhere in Spain that is north of Portugal, or anywhere in Spain that is both west and north of Porto - the riding is superb.

I've done a lot of riding in Portugal over the past 20 years, and if this is your first trip, my suggestion to you is don't go south of Lisbon. All the great scenery, all the history, all the twisty roads & good riding are north of Lisbon, the farther north, the better. It won't be too cool in October to ride in the north, but do bring layered clothing, because there are some great mountain areas in Galicia and it can get cool at the higher altitudes.

Michael

Michael gives good advice, as always. I do need to quibble with "There is really nothing worth seeing in Spain if you are south of about halfway between Porto and Lisbon." There is some wonderful riding (as well as sightseeing) around Ronda, and the Alhambra is worth a journey unto itself. There's more, but that's what stands out for me.

Mark

Indeed, it is about as complicated as it would be for an EU citizen to ride across the border between California and Nevada. :)

Portugal is on the Atlantic coast. You can still ride in the winter (I rented a scooter in Lisbon in February to go to Cabo la Roca), but late into the season, it can be cold, windy and wet. Especially in the mountains.

Otherwise, Spain and Portugal are wonderful, you will have a great trip.

Muchas gracias to all!
Great info, both as relief for my border concerns and for planning routes!
Now to learn a little survival Portuguese to go with my pitiful Spanish...


- B

Hi Mark:

You are 100% correct.

I should have been more geographically specific when I wrote that sentence. I wasn't thinking of areas significantly inland in Spain such as Ronda, Seville, etc., which I agree are superb places to ride and visit.

I was more thinking of southern Spain within 50 to 100 km of the border with Portugal, which, with the possible exception of the city of Badajoz, are mostly deserted areas, hot, and flat. Badajoz is interesting, but I would not make a long detour to go see it.

Michael

South part of Portugal
 

Well, we have different views.
I live in Algarve. And there are so many nice roads around here.
E.g
N2 ends if Faro.
ACT ends in Tavira
The mountain area around Monchique.
The west coast.
Along the border with Spain. Following the river

+++


And if you like to ride dirt/gravel. This is as good as it can be.


https://algarveseniorbikers.com

Southern Spain
 

This proposal is from the book
"Great Motorcycle tours of Europe"

@Erik_G: Interesting... our cave house is NNE from Baza (left side of map) so it looks like the route goes right by us.

I have a keen interest in history, so this was one of my explorations looking at the route of a canal project from the 16th century that was never completed

Thanks again to everyone for the super helpful replies.
We're finally getting serious about our Portugal / Spain trip, now five days away.
I'll post something, I hope something useful to others, about it when we're back! :mchappy:

I'm betting, having never been to this region of Europe before, that we'll find great riding and interesting scenery almost wherever we go!


The hard part will be striking a balance between wanting to ride - to "get my money's worth" out of the expensive rental motorcycle - and stopping long enough to get a feel for the culture, people, history, etc.


But here's another query to help me and possibly others plan and not over-plan given a limited amount of time there.


When I check the time / distance between locations on googly maps, usually it comes up with "A" roads as primary. I know, though, that we'll enjoy smaller "N" roads more, and that the "N" roads will have the best riding.


So are "A" roads in Portugal and Spain all four lane freeway / tollway type roads, i.e., boring with heavy truck traffic?
And should I plan, in general, about twice as much time to ride "N" roads?


Also, do most or all of the toll roads have manned booths to pay tolls in person so the rental company doesn't later get a notice to pay tolls + fines?


I asked this of the rental company (IMT) and got kind of a weird response involving the possibility of paying tolls at a post office. Say what?

https://administracion.gob.es/pag_Ho...s%20in%20Spain.

Only some specific sections of A-roads have tolls. There are toll booths at entries and exits, and you can pay by cash or card.

Highways are fast, safe, sometimes boring, but in general the toll sections are there to bypass local roads with heavy traffic in dense areas. So to avoid the tolls would not be a pleasant experience (and you would probably pay more in gas). Seek out the nice roads where they do exist, of course, but don't be a zealot about the highways.

Great info, thanks!


And that's an excellent link, too. Looks like in Spain, the only place where I'll run across tolls is roughy between Marbella and Malaga.

My SOP (Significant Other Pillion) and I are back from Portugal / Spain. So as to "pay it forward," I'll add to the counsel above a few bits we found particularly wonderful on our trip.

First, as we started our ride, our friends who live north of Lisbon gave us the book, "Slow Roads! Beautiful Drives through Portugal for Cars and Motorcycles" by Jorge Serpa. We found it tremendously helpful, both for road / riding info and for information about the country. Expensive to buy, but worth it, IMHO.

Our rental bike came with a GPS, and we had a couple of not-very good maps from other guide books, but I'd highly recommend a good road map of Portugal and Spain, like maybe the Michelin version, for general orientation.

The mountain roads (the best, of course!) tend to be quite narrow, wonderfully curvy, with lots of elevation changes and blind turns. If you're renting a moto as we were, I'd recommend a mid-weight bike, even if two-up. A bigger, heavier machine will be better on the big highways that you'll want to avoid, while a lighter bike will be more fun and less work to ride everywhere else.

Also, I was glad that my ex-pat friend clued me in not only on the right-of-way conventions for the zillions of roundabouts, but also the signaling conventions, with which I was unfamiliar, and which were especially helpful at the busy city roundabouts.

In keeping with sane and life-affirming "tranquillo" approach to living that we 'Muricans found so refreshing, I was amazed at the many (a majority, I think) drivers who actually go slower than posted speed limits, even on open, straight, roads. Of course, there were also a smaller number of drivers, usually in ritzy sports cars, who pass everyone Formula One style (reminiscent of Thailand).

Also, we saw very, very, few police on our trip, especially in Portugal, and it seems that few are needed, as far as we could tell.

Highly recommend a couple of mountain towns beginning with the letter "M." The roads in and out of Manteigas are absolutely a blast. There is a wonderful hotel there called Casa das Obras that has been owned by the same family for many generations. Much of the building is hundreds of years old and exquisitely beautiful and it was one of the least expensive places we stayed on our trip. Also, we had a fantastic meal at the "Queijaria Manteigas" about a five minute walk from the hotel by the river.

Same story for Mertola - great roads in and out, unbelievable views of the town and castle from a fine little 45 Euro hotel called "Quinta do Vau," and maybe the best meal of the whole trip just down the street from the hotel on a covered balcony looking over the river to the twinkling lights of the town as the castle faded into the night.

Monsanto was another "M" town we had to miss to stay ahead of weather, but it sounded well worth the ride and a visit.

We enjoyed riding all through the Alentejo region, especially on the roads through the cork forest with what we think may have been stork nests atop many of the telephone poles.
Since getting home, we watched this BBC documentary about the cork business and the Alentejo area. Good viewing before or after a Portugal ride:
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6dv0vi

In Spain, my favorite ride was from Marbella to Ronda. Great road, phenomenal views (all the way to Gibraltar or even Morocco if the clouds / haze allow), and Ronda has an amazing gorge and good food. There is very slow bus and truck traffic on this road. Riding uphill from the coast makes it much easier to shoot past this traffic between the curves than would be the case going downhill...

Aside from riding, we found the people of Portugal and southern Spain to be completely gracious and simpatico everywhere. We did the tourist bit in Cordoba (Mezquita), and Granada (Alhambra), and were appropriately amazed. By the time we got to the cathedral in Seville, however, I'd had my fill of gargantuan edifices projecting wealth and power (if not fear and intimidation), and I found the cathedral far more grotesque than beautiful. YMMV.

Other than the riding, the people, the history, and the food, we loved flamenco dancing the best!

I could go on and on, as you can see. It was a wonderful riding and travel experience. Can't wait to return and explore further.
Thanks for all the tips above!

?c?This is top info and I can verify all points to be correct and valuable,