KUDU Expeditions gone to the hay or here to stay ?
 

Just nothiced that Lee of Kudu is selling off lots of expedition truck,bikes etc on ebay, it mentions that he has sold the company.

So before you comit to an expensive trip you should maybe check them out further.

I know there has been some nightmare experiences in the past with other companies where punters lost all their money.

I did check their website and all seems to be ok so maybe he has just sold the name to someone else.

It may be nothing but check it out before you pay out ! :scooter:

Just out of interest, what is he selling ?

I can't find any Ebay stuff of his

Toyota Landcruiser all kitted out and then lots of spares etc.

Kudu Expeditions still chewing the cud and here to stay
 

Just to advise Kudu Expeditions are still up and running after I purchased the company from Lee Mears this year, Lee has successfully run the company for 5 years and it is my intention to take it on to another level, Kudu now has the support of Yamaha with a fleet of 660 Teneres ready for the 2011 season which is filling up fast.
I can't speak for other tour operatours but let me assure you that Kudu Expeditions has always abided by the Tour Operators Regulations and all monies are held safely in a Client Account.
Thank you all past present and future Kudu customers for your support we will be at the MCN Motorcycle show 3-6th Febuary 2011 Stand N223 please feel free to come along and have a chat.
Jeff Kill
Kudu Expeditions Director.

The new Kudu? - use someone else
 

I recently completed a trip with the new Kudu. It was from London to Mongolia.

The group of travellers were great and the support team were excellent but the owner not so much.

I cannot recommend to anyone to use this company. I understand that under the previous owner it was slick operation but not anymore.

The new owner has no business being in the industry. None.

He had no idea of the distances. Most days they were wrong. The waypoints for the end of the day were wrong most days. He planned the trip using google earth! Seriously. He had not been there before.

A few times we were riding off-road until well past midnight. Very dangerous.

The food was appalling. His attitude was appalling. There were very few spares. He made a mess of visa dates for a few of the riders then blamed them. He was rude and truculent. Generally he was offensive.

There was no satelite phone!

He carried very limited spares. The support trucks were so slow the significantly held up the trip so much so we missed a few nights in hotels.
When after 5 days we did get to a city we stayed at this dump with one working shower between 18 very dirty riders.

I could go on and on but it just makes me angry thinking about the money I wasted.

Go with someone else.

Oh and I almost forgot. This a message for Yamaha who supplied the bikes. Mine did 12,000km from brand new on the original oil. The owner refused to change the oil on any of the bikes. He stated that they will last long enough and then he will get rid of them. Just keep that in mind if you are thinking of buying a Kudu bike. The engine will have been destroyed.

Regards

I also took place on the above trip from London to Ulaanbaatar. Undoubtedly there were a number of issues with the logistic support on the trip but given the change in ownership I think that we were effectively used as guinea-pigs. Had this been fully disclosed up-front (and appropriate rebates allowed) then I think the owner would have come out of this much better. Choice of support vehicles and size of the group both contributed to the issues and should be checked-out by future potential participants.
Group riding always involves some compromises but ultimately if it had not been for Kudu I am unlikely to have made this particular trip.

• Am I glad I went on this trip? Absolutely.
• Was it the ride of a lifetime? Yes.
• Are all my motorcycling colleagues eaten-up by jealousy? You bet.
• Will the images I saw on the trip remain with me for the rest of my life? Oh yes.

Travelling across Siberian Russia, Kazakhstan and Mongolia is never going to be an exercise in luxury travel. These countries require hard-core riding and an willingness to react positively to events as they unfold. Let's face it even Ewen and Charlie-boy had their ups and downs despite their gold-plated logistic support. Quite frankly the ability to ride vast sections without the need to carry all the gear on the bikes was a real advantage to being able to enjoy the ride.

There is no doubt you can do this cheaper on your own but for me the safety-net provided was an acceptable trade-off.

It was far from perfect but it was still a blast.

Just a thought
 

There is a fascinating contrast between the last two posts about Kudu.
Having taken the very same trip, they have very different feelings, and conclusions, about the experience.

IMO this stems from the expectations of the participants; one man's meat is another mans' poison, in summary.
It reminds me of the second-hand information I have heard in conversations about Nick Sanders various "expeditions" - people seem to either love it or hate it, with no middle ground.

Maybe there is scope in the HUBB for considered feedback about organised tour operators? Could be based on fact or simply on the individuals' perceptions??

Oh yea, and they are both first time posts spread over a few months.

Tour operators have to cater to a clientele with an impossible wide range of tastes and appetite for "adventure". On any trip you can probably guarantee that half the people will be complaining about the crappy lodging, with the other half complaining that they are staying in hotels and not camping. I could never run one of these tours...

It's about explanation and having the confidence up front to tell a potential customer that this trip isn't for them. I did one club trip and will never do another. I felt sorry for the organiser. The trip was clearly set out with miles to cover each day and details of the accomodation at the end. The fact that one rider in particular couldn't get out of bed at a decent time, needed two hours to fill up with petrol and kept falling off was where it went wrong. As a club trip I basically quit and rode my own ride just meeting up at night to hear about their hassles. If I'd paid for more than someone to book the hotels and ferrys and couldn't walk away due to feeling the need for a support vehicle it would be different.

I wouldn't feel sorry for a trip organiser who didn't explain in detail or one who didn't fully vet the participants, which is where I guess the two posters differ. The vetting must be hard for these small compabies. Likewise they aren't going to name the stopping places up front people will just copy the itinerary.

Andy

Threewheel, I also did one organized trip and will never do it again, for the reasons you outline.

I don't think it is really feasible for these operators to vet their customers, especially in today's economic conditions--if they start turning away customers, chances are good that they will have to cancel the whole trip. Moreover, unless the organizer knows them personally, it could be awfully difficult to figure out who would enjoy the trip and who would not.

doing the trip this year 2012
 

Hi All, to give my two cents worth here.

I was all for this trip actually, until I read some of the posts above. 2 months later I was still thinking about it and decided to contact Jeff at Kudu last week for feedback and an explanation. I did this because most people are likely to complain rather than praise so wanted to get Jeffs side of the story.

He was very honest actually, in no way did Jeff try and spin any bullshit. He has done these trips many times (solo), but this was his first trip since taking over Kudu and admitted to making some mistakes for sure. He did dispute some of the comments above (well explain the situations), but admitted that somethings could have been done better. One of the things Jeff confirmed is that from this year group sizes will be limited to 12 so that will fix a few things up.

My opinion has always been that if you join a group led tour and you have to be somewhere in 3 weeks, then of course you are going to have to give up some of your freedoms and stick to some sort of timeline.

You are also going to get people who expect that its some sort of tarmac touring company where everything goes to plan. To quote Ewan McGregor from Long Way Round, "this is an adventure afterall" - things dont go to plan, but from my experience in traveling, thats the best times - may seem like shit then but those are the times you talk about to your mates when you get back over a Beer.

For me, the bottom line is (and as stated above by another poster), most people would never be able to do a trip like this without a group tour scenario. Thats me, I could never get the time out of work or life to organise a trip like this for anywhere near the same cost. As such, ill be doing the trip this year and will repost here my comments of the trip here.

Hope to see some other riders this year on the trip. Cheers

I think it rather ironic that people would pay for an "Adventure" holiday then complain when they got an adventure...

Too much of an adventure perhaps ????

I feel some of the posters should of gone to Thomas Cook and got their feet up next to the pool an hired a scooter for the day.

I think there is a real need to vet customers for a long trip. A mixed group is great but one can't have a too extreme diversity. The enduro-riding god will quickly get hacked-off waiting for the newbie who is nearly killing himself to catch up. It shouldn't be too dificult to come up with a multiple choice application form to get a rough idea of people's ability, expectations, personality.

I have organised a few short group trips but have been lucky that I know most of the participants very well. We normally have one or two newcomers on each trip but I can normally judge if a rider is up to the challenge and will fit in. Only had one that didn't work out (so far)

The other option that works very well is to split into two groups that take slighly different routes to the same daily stop. I find that these groups change from day to day as the odd nutter needs a rest and a slower rider gains confidence.

Pros and Cons
 

Many valid points made about the pros and cons of 'organized group' travel.

I, too, was on this trip and now looking back with somewhat rose-tinted spectacles, it was undoubtedly a fantastic 'experience'!

Prior to signing up for the trip I spoke to Jeff at the NEC show and he said there that the group would be no more than 12 people and that if there were more than 12 people interested, he would probably split the trip into two groups. As it was there were 18 participants, supported by two large trucks (too big, too slow - and one with trailer!), a medic/driver, a mechanic/driver, expedition leader on bike and Jeff (Kudu owner).

I am glad to hear that Jeff now acknowledges a few of the problems encountered on the trip. We all knew that it was supposed to be 'an adventure' - and could all accept situations that occur that are beyond anyone's control - discontent only occurred over situations that were well within the organisers control and his apparent failure to acknowledge these and his inability to enter into any kind of dialogue until it was almost at mutiny point. .

If you want a better idea of what the trip was like from my perspective, have a look at my blog - Mikes Mongolian Madness | The wanderings and wonderings of a motorcycle traveller

Bottom line - it was a fantastic trip (fantastic memories and fantastic people) - but I wouldn't do an 'organised adventure trip' again - go on your own or with a few selected companions.

Interesting that feedback is still coming in about this particular organised trip. That is now 3 out of 18 providing comment.

Mike,
Was there clear reason why this particular trip exceeded the intended number of 12 by 50% (apart from the obvious of maximising profit), and why didn't it split into two groups?
I've taken a quick look at your blog and I see that you entered Russia twice: what type of visa did you use and did Kudu assist with this or was it a self-help thing to do?

Of course it is a good idea, I just don't think it is practicable for a tour operating business to be very thorough about it.

It's been real interesting reading this thread and in particular the blog by one of the participants.

It looks like I'm destined to ride alone... :freezing:

Chris

Not sure there was any reason why the trip ended up at 18 - guess it was just that 18 people wanted to go! It must be hard for anyone (especially a new business) to turn down cash! Suppose they could have split the group - but that might have caused them more logistical problems as one of the trucks was particaularly unreliable and broke down several times before we left Europe. I think it was eventually abandoned in Siberia!

Yes - we entered from Russia into Kazakhstan and then back into Russia on the way to Barnaul (no direct route from Kaz into Mongolia) - therefore need multi-entry visa. Kudu use an outfit called Travcour to help with the visa apps, but they are pretty straightforward to do on your own - except Kaz which you had to attend embassy in London in person (2 hour queue for 5 min process)

OPinions
 

First, I am not a biker, I'm a driver! I have no connection to any of the companies mentioned. These comments etc are just my personal opinion.
Also I have done a London to Cape Town and the trips sound great, if not everyones cup of tea.

Having read the thread thru and using common sense, it seems that there will always be the and the bad experiences. But common in the three reports are that there were problems. You get the feeling that the two more positive are possibly a bit more laid back.
However, taking 18 bikes when you have said there will only be 12 or that you would split in to two if there are more than 12, smacks of profiteering and certainly would not go down well with most people. Also its pretty poor etiquette.
Surely if Jeff was a virgin to this trip, some of his support staff should have had experience of doing it previously - this knowledge should have been called upon to plan the trip out a bit more professionally.
Poorly planned support and logistics and unacceptable, especially having to abandon one of the support vehicles.
Also the comments that Jeff himself was unhelpful, rude and had a bad attitude is totally unacceptable - this alone would put me off.

Just look around and see what is said about other expedition companies - Waypoint Tours owned and operated by Barrie Dunbar, are a relatively newly established operator, but I have not heard a bad word said about them. I frequent several other forums where quite a few people have done trips with Waypoint and the feedback/reports have all been glowing.

I hope that Jeff takes on board the positive and negative comments and tries to put them to good use and improve the experience for all in the future.

Good luck and enjoy!

My two cents
 

Having last weekend in Ulaanbaatar , witnessed six punters (sorry customers) from Kudu on route from London to Magadan arrive with all smiles, there can be no problems.
I can only envy those that are continuing to Magadan on a supported trip via the BAM road , Vitim bridge and old Road of Bones.
It should be noted that they are now running Toyota.

Sincerely -Alec

Lorraine's blog she is on that trip. Off on the Dizzy – Zurich to Singapore on my Suzuki DRZ 400 | I’m dedicating this trip to end slavery, please support my Ride for Freedom campaign: https://ijmfreedommaker.org/campaign/340/Ride-for-Freedom

Being a long-term resident at the Oasis in UB, i too witnessed the people on the trip high fiving etc on arrival,

I Found Niall and Jeff of kudu to be good guys, being stranded without a running bike waiting on clutch plates and steels i was taken out in their 4x4 Toyota for a nice day out to the national park, even offered the option to join them to magadan via the BAM road, i witnessed jeff sharing routes/waypoints with various solo bikers/cyclists.

I personally wouldent dig an organised tour (riding without luggage would be nice mind) but reading this thread and then meeting the kudu guys i think that particular tour in 2011 had a combination of issues that are unlikely to be repeated.

Goodluck to them on the BAM road and Lorraine on her furthe travels to china/se asia

BAM and Road of Bones with Kudu Expeditions
 

Hi Don and Alec, nice to meet you both in UB. Hope your onward travels are going well.

For everyone else i have written a bit of a blurb here on my experience on this trip with Kudu Expeditions 2012 through the BAM and Road of Bones. I hope many more people do this trip as it really was, well, one of the hardest things i have done, but one of the greatest experiences and definitely a dream come true.

http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...523#post387540

If anyone wants any further details feel free to PM me.

As someone above said, being a long-term resident in various places in Russia (Magadan, Yakutsk, Moscow) I had the chance to meet Jeff and Neil from Kudu Expeditions more than one time. Matter of fact we meet in all the places mentioned above due to my shipping and mechanical problems with my bike.

We talked a lot and exchange a lot of information about the road and motorcycling.

Mind you I have not been in tour with them, but I find them to be very nice and friendly people, willing to share their experience and resources with other travelers (I needed a tube, a back pack and a slim pump). So, from my experience with then, hands up!

Again, as someone said, this kind of trip puts one way out of their conform zone. It is beautiful, but it is also hard and maddening some times.

Each person reacts to such challenges differently and each one has different expectations. Generally is more then you bargain for from all points of view.

Kudu Expeditions 2013 review WARNING
 

Hi to anyone considering trip with Kudu Expeditions,

I'd like to post a review of the current Kudu Expeditions operation. I was on the 2013 Trans Africa (London to Cape Town, cancelled in Point Noire, Congo).

I cannot recommend this company to anyone. Poorly organised and just as poorly executed. The website implies that they have experience in Africa and it did not take long to realise that was clearly not the case. Often the customers were left to organise things that Kudu had been paid to do. The current Kudu has never run this tour, a fact that was not mentioned when taking customers money....
The owner lied about customer numbers (only two, not four, or six), lied about experience in Africa on his website, lied on the website saying that the guides had experience with every mile we would travel.
Basically the trip was a race between major African cities and then trying to organise the next visa. We really did nothing touristy. Honestly, Africa for two and a half months and barely saw any wildlife. We never really left the beaten track, hardly camped and certainly did not experience the trip advertised on the Kudu website. It was probably 95% sealed roads and a lot of sitting around in capital cities.
Nothing was done by Kudu to ensure customers had a good experience. A four month trip through Africa should have been a trip of a lifetime but I really just feel shortchanged by an unscrupulous operator.
The trip was cancelled halfway through due to the incompetence of Kudu not organising visas for Angola and apparently there are 'no refunds available' though I am pursuing other options.
The only way operators like this can be drummed out of the industry is if customers stop using them. Kudu offers dreams, takes your money, barely tries to deliver, fails to compete the trip and then lies about refunds.
I hope this post is not removed as potential customers need to be warned what they are getting themselves into with Kudu.

JackB.. Sorry to hear you have such a bad experience.

If you had read up on people's opinions and experiences of Overland travel on the Hubb you wouldn't of booked one in the first place.

You quite simply don't need a chaperone. Be your own boss. There are so many travellers about to make friends and ride with if you prefer company.

I'm not involved in anyway, I don't know any of these people or companies and am generally 'against' organised tours to places I like to travel to. I have spent a lot of time driving around Africa. My thoughts to your post are:

"Basically the trip was a race between major African cities and then trying to organise the next visa."
Yes, this is the west coast route if you only have a few months. People won't book on longer trips so tour operators have to make them shorter and shorter. It is not a tourist friendly area and a lot of time, effort, sweat, planning, pissing about and money goes into getting the next visa. Look at some of the detailed threads trying to plan it out:
http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...nfo-hows-68265

"We really did nothing touristy"
There is very little 'tourism' in West Africa or Central Africa. Were you expecting safari parks like in Kenya? AfricaDisney? It is a wonderful area to explore and enjoy just being there and seeing how things are. If you want to sit around complaining there is nothing famous to take a Facebook picture next to then you'll be happy. If you want to go and make friends with the woman selling carrots in the market and spend the morning talking to her and her customers then you'll be richer for the experience. What were your expectations of West Africa? Did you do any research of your own before you booked?

"Honestly, Africa for two and a half months and barely saw any wildlife."
Thats because you were in West & Central Africa where 99% of it has been killed already. Clearly expectations were not correct. If you had made it to Namibia, Botswana and SA then you would have had plenty of wildlife. Two and a half/four months is not much time on African time to cover that huge distance. Most independent people take 1 year down the West Coast.

"The trip was cancelled halfway through due to the incompetence of Kudu not organising visas for Angola"
Barring the likes of North Korea, Angola is probably the hardest country in the world to get any sort of visa for. Coming down the west coast this has been a serious problem for a few years. I very much doubt it was due to incompetence, most likely Angola not wanting tourists so making it virtually impossible to get a visa (my own experience *2). Read all the threads of misery in the African section, plenty of people stuck in Congo for months trying. Other overland trips were also stopped in Congo. I meet an overland driver being flown to rescue a truck stuck in Congo for quite a few months, clients had been flown to Namibia after 5 weeks of waiting.

Sometimes a tour company can't shield you from all of the realities of the trip you have paid to be sheltered from.

"The only way operators like this can be drummed out of the industry is if customers stop using them. Kudu offers dreams, takes your money, barely tries to deliver, fails to compete the trip and then lies about refunds."
I do hope so as well, but mainly because like many independent travellers in Africa I find it an unpleasant experience when a truck load of well meaning (mostly) but ignorant self important Facebook travellers turn up where I am staying and proceed to noisily take over and generally strut around like they own the place when they have no idea of the realities of where they are or how they got there or how to interact with locals and so forth...

(Thats a bit harsh, the one overland truck I meet coming down the west coast was full of nice people, many woman who didn't feel they could backpack solo etc and nice drivers etc.

But most overlanders groan when a overland truck pulls in due to the "I paid for this, I'm entitled to what my expectations are!!" attitude that fits so well with the realities of African over landing ;-)

I hear where your coming from and it would be great to have to the time to organise and execute a trip privately. The fact is I purchased a product from Kudu that only vaguely met the product they advertised. The trip was cut short by Kudu and I'm out about £11k due to Kudu not honouring the refund they promised. I was sucked in by a glitzy website and feel like a fool. I'm just trying to inform others who may be looking to go the same way that this company is not professional or honourable.
P.s I'm not on Facebook. I've done plenty of solo travel but I looked at this trip and thought it'll be good for once to pay someone else to do the organising. Its certainly the last 'organised' trip I'll be on.

Well as they're a UK company ??

You could simply take them to court. If a company offers something, takes your money and then doesn't deliver, then they are breaching their sale agreement.

However, I'm sure they had you sign a disclaimer in the event this happened ??


I don't think you could get anything back just because you didn't enjoy the trip, but if they promised to get you from A-B-C-D and you only to B, then that could be quite simple in the eyes of a small claims court.