Name and Shame in Spain - HOTEL ARTE VIDA
 

I've just been on a short trip down to Morocco, and rode down through Spain from Santander to Algeciras. I stayed a night at HOTEL ARTE VIDA and not having 'plenty' of Euros on me the following morning I decided to settle the bill by credit card. I started to get an uncomfortable feeling about the chap at the desk when he asked for my PIN rather than offering me the opportunity to type it in. I insisted on going behind the desk and made sure that he couldn't see what I entered. Then after quite some time he claimed that the transaction didn't go through, he crumpled up the slip from the credit card machine and then asked if I could pay by cash. I tried to get the slip of paper from him, but he wouldn't give it to me. To be fair there was a complete language barrier so I eventually gave him the benefit of the doubt and paid in cash. Now that I am home my credit card bill has arrived and, yes you guessed it, the transaction had gone through. So I burned my fingers a wee bit and have learned to try and avoid getting into this kind of situation again. I write this to hopefully save someone else from the same thing happening to them, and specifically to warn people to be cautious if staying over at:

HOTEL ARTE VIDA
CN 340 Km. 79,3
11380 - Tarifa (Cádiz) - España

Tel. +34 956 68 52 46
Fax +34 956 68 91 33

It's a shame as otherwise I would have recommended this place.

Harmless,
You can dispute the transaction with your credit card company on the grounds that you have given.

You should get a refund. Don't let it pass whether intentional on the hotel's part or not.

I recently disputed a tip that had been added to my credit card by a restaurant after I'd signed the visa chit (and left a tip on the table). The money was refunded to me.

If your credit card company is unsympathetic, advise them that you will be changing to another card. That usually works.
Stephan

Yes I did try challenging this item on my credit card statement, gave the honest story, but as I expected the card company is not interested.

I am also waiting for a response from the Hotel, but doubt they will be bothering much with a reply. The big problem is that I am unable to challenge them suitably in Spanish. English even in their restaurant was virtually useless.

Like Stefano said, you should threaten to change your credit card company pronto. It is for this service that we pay stupid to the point of illegal amounts of interest on credit cards. Do not settle for anything less! If you can go to the bank, all the better. Bring some scissors and cut it in half in front of them, they will probably change their mind. If they don't, there's hundreds of CC companies just dying for your business!

Just tell the credit card company that you are not paying for that transaction, c/c companies used to be no problem with disputes like this but problems are arising due to most of the 'call centres' are now in India. If the c/c co does not help then 'name and shame' them too. BTW, Direct line are also shite bags along with Vagina media.

Got the e-mail address, name of the employee/description? Got a receipt for the transaction?
I'll write in spanish to the management for you, if you like.

Be persistant with your claim, I disputed a $220 cash advance charge on a Mastercard from last December and its finally been credited back in late April. It only took 5 phone calls from me, 4 phone calls from the Bank, 1 visit to the Bank, 2 emails and 1 letter from me.

I'm sure its their policy to delay, lose and avoid actually replying to disputes until you just say "bugger it".

I am now going back through my CC statements for the last 2 years to recover the "$650 of cash advance fees" I've been incorrectly charged.

I've got to get a life!!

It's a long time since I practised law, but I think you guys are mostly barking up the wrong tree. This isn't about the card transaction which from what the poster is saying was genuine and legal. It seems the fraudulent employee, in order to complete the fraud, simply disposed of the transaction receipt, and in the absence of evidence, that is hearsay.

The credit card debit, in the absence of a receipt for the cash cannot be disputed. From what has been said, it's either a moral/ethical matter for the owner of the hotel and/or a matter for the Spanish police, who even at this late stage should be informed

I think you should start with a stern letter/threat to the hotel-owners. This won't be the first or last time this happens.

In the absence of a cash receipt, I think you are right that he should contact the hotel. He should insist on a written reply to his correspondence; that usually stirs things up.

All the same, the original transaction was attempted using the credit card. The customer was specifically told that the transaction had not gone through. For that reason he settled in cash. So if he does not get any satisfaction from the hotel he should still pursue the credit card company. Any lack of response from the hotel will strengthen his claim.

In cases such as this, it is unfortunately the squeaky wheel that gets oiled. If you keep making a noise, you get some attention.

Keep pushing. :)
Stephan

Agreed! Also, i've been a victim of CC fraud three times for a total of near $6000 dollars. I've never had a receipt and all charges were erased from the file. This is why CC companies charge 19% interest! And thats in N.America. Did you know my friends Banamex CC in Mexico changes 39% ?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? WTF?? I thought that was loan-sharking??

My CC companies LOVE me :)

NO you are not being naive, (but you are being rhetorical). As I said above, this needs to be reported to police. Rather than credit card fraud as such, this is a straightforward case of theft by deception, fraud, whatever you wanna call it.

credit card fraud/theft
 

Do dispute this with your credit card company and get the guardia civil involved too.This tale is a good example why one should keep credit card use to the bare minimum necessary such as payments where only a cc is permitted or emergencies. Then only with utmost caution.
I prefer paying everything in cash in the local money which can easily be obtained from automatic banking machines directly from your own bank account - with care- using your bank card not a cc. It may be a bit more bother but I find it a lot less worrisome, especially the potential for such goings on as Mostly Harmless and knowing the high interest rates charged if I should be late in paying back the cc company.And most of the small businesses I deal with are not set up to do cc transactions anyway.
I think you will get a reaction from your cc company if you follow the advice of the other posts. Good luck.

I know, I know, no one needs to say anything--but you can go back to the hotel and beat the guy up with a few friends. Ok, I feel relieved to get that off my chest, now back to reality, LOL

Perhaps he needs a hand from us?
 

Thanks for telling us about this story...

If you post their (the hotels) email address on here I'm sure a few of us would email the hotel to complain and support you...

If this sounds a good idea then post a letter on here giving dates etc.... (be careful not to provide anything which is security sensitive though). All we have to do is cut and paste the letter and send it onwards to those gits at the hotel.

I will send em 2 every day if it helps?

Together we stand divided we fall.

YES this is clearly THEFT and the authorities can act. The language barrier isn't going to help though. I'm surprised your credit card company have declined to cover the costs bearing in mind the circumstances. Maybe a stern letter to them is in order.

Can I just qualify how much are you talking about.

Steve

Where is your signature
 

If it were me I would be asking the credit card company for a copy of the signed credit card receipt to show that I had made or authourized the charge.

While the criminal action was taken by the hotel the CC company has a responsability to only pay legitimate and authorized bills.

This was the hotel employee, not the hotel. This is no crummy establishment:

Hotel Tarifa - Beach Hotel ARTE VIDA TARIFA - hotel y alojamiento en Tarifa

The transaction was authorised, by chip and PIN.

I've already offered to write a letter in Spanish. What more can one do?

Thanks for this kind offer. There is a reservations email address on the web by which I imagine we might be able to get hold of the address of the management. Unfortunately I don't have a name or useful description of the employee, other than he is a he. I don't have a receipt - I tried to ask for one - but of course if this chap was setting me up then he wouldn't have given one even if he did understand what I was asking for. BUT I have found that I do have a hand written invoice which in the extreme should be able to be used to identify who the employee is.

Stretcher Monkey I shall like to take you up on your offer of assistance and I will contact you further about this off-line. Many thanks.

Noel.

I can't help wondering that even if I did have a receipt, that the hotel or employee could simply argue that the receipt is for the credit card transaction and not for a cash payment....?


Yes Sjoerd, I've certainly learned that lesson. The crazy thing is that I obviously did have enough cash on me - but not much more - so I only chose to pay by credit card because I wasn't sure when I'd be sure of being able to get hold of some more cash... In future I plan to hide a certain amount of cash on the motorcycle somewhere to be there only for real emergencies - if I'd done this then I am sure I wouldn't have worried about settling in cash in the first instance.

Noel.

Thanks for your support. I will in the first instance be taking Stretcher Monkey up on his offer of writing to the hotel in Spanish. If ultimately nothing comes of it then this could indeed be useful if not fun.

Noel.

Euros 82.50 (£68.89) - a useful amount of money, but I guess it's the principle of the matter that is more important.

Noel.

This is a legitimate credit card transaction - chip and pin, so there is no disputing that. What I do dispute though is (a) that I was told that the transaction didn't go through and/or (b) that I didn't receive the goods and services for the transaction - I am not sure where the law stands on that one?

Noel.

Thank you everybody for your responses to my posting. Initially my thinking was that I'd simply have to take this on the chin as experience, and posted here only as a warning to fellow travellers, and hey if just one of you didn't stay over at the hotel given this HUBB thread, then it would be the hotels ultimate loss in short changing me. I guess my first reaction was to blame the hotel, but perhaps to begin with blame should only be pointed at the employee as we have yet to know what response the hotel management will have. I know this isn't the right attitude but initially I was simply going to let this one go, but with all the feedback which I've had on this thread I at least owe it to all of you to take this one step further (which I shall do with the offer of help from Stretcher Monkey), and hope that before too long I'll be able to post back with better news.

Many thanks, Noel.

Just to add a point about using CCs
 

I have on occasions had a cc transaction "not go through" - I don't know the reason, nor do I care particularly - that's technology for you.
In every case, the operator of the cc machine has run the card through the machine again to show a negative "cancellation" transaction for the same amount of currency.

Yes, they do negative as well as positive transactions.

Travelling, cash and cards
 

When I read the account of a decent guy being embezzled by an moron in a hotel in Spain, there are a few things that come to mind.
To carry around big amounts of cash is dumb and asking for trouble. To try to pay everything with a card is also not convenient. The best is to check before hand, and I am pretty sure the owner of the hotel in question is not happy with this. The answer is not to be an easy victim, and it all comes down to who outsmarts who. Never trust anyone. Of cause it helps to speak the language. When I came to Las Palmas, Islas Canarias, for a shipping company, the food at the hotel was below standards, and among the crew of five or six I was the only one fluent in Spanish, so I let out a few less civilized remarks. Next we got permission to eat somewhere else. What I mean to say is that they will try to see if you are soft enough to screw you. Be nice, be civil, but don´t be a pushover.

A happy ending....
 

An update to the folks who have been following this thread... Thanks to help from StretcherMonkey from the HUBB who has very kindly translated letters from me into Spanish, and replies from Hotel Arte Vida into English, the hotel management have been in discussions with their bank and agreed that a transaction could show up as failed on their machine if the connection to the bank is lost at a critical point in time, yet the transaction at the bank side can be completed as successful - they assume that this must be what has happened and offered their apologies and refunded accordingly. So the power of the HUBB has I am sure not for the first time been excercised - many many thanks to StretcherMonkey for his time and effort and apolgies to Hotel Arte Vida for shaming them where it appears that I have jumped to the wrong conclusions too soon...

Happy Travels, Noel.

Good result, Noel. It pays to persevere! :thumbup1:
Stephan

hotel arte vida
 

only just seen this thread, but i know the owner of this hotel [he does in fact, own a number of hotels and properties in tarifa] and he is a particularly fair and very accomodating guy.
i know i'm new on here, so none of you know me, but when i say this hotel and its reputation is top drawer, then believe me, it is respected as one of the top hotels in tarifa.
i am sorry to hear that you had problems with the hotel, but also glad you got it sorted in the end. i deal with hotels alot in tarifa for very large group bookings and know only too well, how easy it is for mistakes to be made. perhaps, it would be better to discuss things with the owner directly, rather than naming and shaming, before and dialogue has been entered into??
always a shame for the customer to get hard done by, but equally unfair to tarnish a reputation without opportunity to compensate...
my 2 cents... hope your experiences dont put you off going back to tarifa, as it is a fantastic place to spend a few days!