A Sidecar question to members: appealling?
 

As some of you may know, I live in Estonia.
As probably more of you know, I ride a Ural sidecar.

I'm looking into an idea and I'd like member feedback on it.

Basically, a fellow Uraler and I are looking into the feasilibity of setting-up a small venture that would aim to provide visitors to Estonia and the Baltics with the option of renting Ural sidecar outfits.

We could also offer custom routes/attractions/destinations depending on a customer's interests, trying to make the most of what Estonia and the region has to offer.

So my question is, assuming the rates were acceptable to you, would you consider such a holiday?

I'm open to any an all comments whether you've ridden an outfit, haven't but fancy it, or wouldn't go near one.

Cheers

Since opening this, I've sub'ed up and now merged this post with a poll I created (thanks Grant!!)
So please vote, vote, vote as all those opinions will help us understand if this idea has legs.... or even wheels!
THANK YOU!!

Sounds like a great idea. The only Ural tour I can find are around the factory. My wife does not want to ride in the support vehicle for a normal 2 wheel tour and will not ride pillion.

Thanks for the answer, wm! Nice to see the idea appeals:thumbup1:

So, fellow HUBB members...
No further opinions, be they for or against?

For many it could provide a commitment free opportunity to try something new, for others the chance to ride a sidecar, when shipping theirs for a short trip in Europe might be prohibitive.

Suggestions?
Ideas?
Comments?
Would or wouldn't you?

Hi Warthog,

I think it's a good idea,but being in the process of learning to ride an outfit myself at the moment(and struggling!),i think it should be made clear to prospective visitors/customers that it's not just a case of turn up and ride away.
I would imagine that some instruction would need to be provided by yourselves
before any novice sidecar rider heads off on their own.
Again,good idea,and definitely something i would consider doing myself.

Best regards,

Joe

Hi Joe. Definitely agree with you!

I think at least a solid half day's training so that riders understan that they need to give a hack the respect it deserves. Outfits may not go fast, but they can bite, if one is not careful!!

I would be very interested in riding a Ural in Estonia. What are the legalities (taking an Estonian registered bike I don't own across a border) of visiting other countries in the vicinity? Or are you considering restricting this venture to Estonia only?
cheers
Chris

Now you know I'm never one to rain on anyones parade but.....:rofl:

A few random comments:

I wouldn't go for this. If I want to go anywhere I have my own outfit and would use that. I think the target market is for want a better description (and excuse the labels) "holidaymakers" rather than "adventurers". Edit to add: I think the sidecarists you'd get would be from say the US who didn't want to bring their own rigs over. I think you'd get a lot of solo riders who fancied a go.

I think you are spot on thinking about the training aspects of taking Dave-the-Weekend-Harley-Rider and plonking him on a Ural. I think you need to add to this how you'll deal with blokes who own Fireblades at home wringing your Urals to death at 70 mph (is there something like the AA?) and how you'll tell old boys who've pottered about on their own bikes for years that they are not fit to be let loose on your bike. Maybe talk to the local Harley shop? Will they rent solos to the point and squirt riders who can't get their head round three wheels?

I think a big draw could be winter riding. Maybe find a forrest trail where you can use the Urals abilities and lead the trip to include some nice winter camping, open fire etc? You have more control than handing over they keys.

Good luck with whatever you try.

Andy

I think its a great idea :thumbup:. Granted, I am bias toward Urals in General. It would be a niche marked though. But, if your livelihood wouldn't depend on it, why not. I could see myself flying up from Hamburg/Germany (after 2012) and taking the Ural tour. Do you take pre-bookings...? :mchappy:


P.S: Gosh, I miss my rig...:(

I believe restriction apply to the east into Russia, but Finland, Latvia etc are all EU and Schengen treaty members, so in principle you could ride from Tallinn all the way home and only need a passport in Dover!!!

Being a bike loadned under a rental agreement, I should think you have the freedom of movement as if it were your own. But don't quote me on that!! I'd need to check!

Being able to offer patrons advice on Latvia and Finland too would be great.

Pre-bookings for a pre-company :eek3:: now that would be organised!!

We could offer a withdrawal management course for ex Ural owners!
Glad you like the idea though!

[quote=Threewheelbonnie;321171]Now you know I'm never one to rain on anyones parade but.....:rofl:

Any and all opinions welcome!!

I agree with you that those in Europe who decided to have a crack would be curious solo riders rather than those with their own rig. Likewise on the US: it does seem that Urals have a decent following over there.

Still a niche within a niche though!!

If anyone's reached 70mph, it's that the Ural has just ridden off a cliff and no end of training will help them with that!!

I guess each rider would be handled on their merits. I guess a controlled area where they can fly the chair and scare themselves a bit by how easily it can happen would be good. I even wonder if race-reppers would even be interested!

That could be good. I guess they'd have to be well informed and prepared before signing though!! It can be bloomin' cold!!

Oh yes, I would be a potential customer. I miss my rig...:(

http://trex63.smugmug.com/Motorcycle...13_YoexT-L.jpg

http://trex63.smugmug.com/Motorcycle...65_BD526-L.jpg

How did you find the bench seat? I can't say the tractor seats are uncomfortable, but they do look "accommodating"

I'm thinking that for my purposes I'd really want to be able to take it to Russia. The Baltics are pleasant enough, but I've already been through twice; if I was headed as far afield as the Alps or Norway I'd definitely want something a bit more sprightly than a Ural (and more carve-worthy than a sidecar rig). I don't know how that might fit your business plan, but that's really what would set this apart for me.

As others have said, maybe we're not your target audience here. Are there other companies out there somewhere doing anything similar, or even vaguely related? It seems to me you'd want to talk to them about their experience.

Good luck in any case!

Mark

The bench seat was a perfect match for my butt, loved it...:closedeyes:

Hi Warthog, I reckon I must be one of the very few people who actually rents out a sidecar! Classic Motorcycle Rental for details. It rents out quite often, very popular for weddings etc, but it is the only bike on the fleet which has been crashed, it got about a mile before the rider braked, swerved and went in the ditch!

Thanks for the input.

I think Russia would be possible, but more of a logistical/red-tape challenge due to the visa requirements.

As for the target audience, I don't know...
I think the idea could appeal to two main groups: firstly bikers who have never tried an outfit and could now do so, in a novel location, without the commitment of buying one or, secondly, existing sidercar riders for whom shipping/riding their rig over here and hence riding a rig over here would normally be financially prohibitive.

The latter, I would expect to be found in a customer base over in North America. As shown by Andy's vote above, EU based sidecar owners would probably just opt for riding their own.

Regarding the choice of bike, I think Urals are the best bet: new ones are pretty solid, and they'd be well-looked after.

More powerful rigs woiuld be MUCH more expensive to get hold of/build. There is also the additional danger that inexperienced riders would then use that extra power and do themselves real harm: at least Urals encourage people to trundle along, rather than nail it everywhere!!

They would also make riding the gravel roads and forest trails mroe enjoyable and these make up about 50% of Estonia's road network!

Either way, that is the importance of the votes for me: I start to see the real picture, not just what I can imagine!

Thanks for the link!:funmeteryes:

And the word of warning!:funmeterno:

Your point about ditches does reinforce the need for a morning of structured training. I guess that is a bit easier to sell if they have 5 days in the saddle, than just the one day!

Nice to know outfits can form part of a successful rental firm: but can they be the basis for one? :helpsmilie:

I had the same question when I set up Classic Bike Hire, would it make any money? Luckily I didnt set it up to make a profit, and I have achieved that objective (no profit) every year so far! The other funny thing was that I put my old commuting bike on hire, a 2000 Ducati 900SS, very cheap, a giid basic bike. It hires out more than any other bike! (There is a reason, it is the only one with electric start, people have forgotten how to kick a bike!) I would look at a mix of bikes, some 2 wheelers, some with a chair. You'll need to think about insurance as well, there was only one broker in the UK who would hire bikes rented by the day, but the deal offered was reasonable. No idea what it is like in Estonia! (Happy memories of visiting Tartu many years ago, not on a bike)

Insurance, along with advertising will probably be one of the big expenses, but I'll leave that to my friend who is fluent in Estonian, whilst I am not!

A mix of bikes could be good, but if one firm already exists, in such a small market, we may need to opt for the Urals only! Eithe way, that would be for further down the line: right now getting a fleet of 3 bikes will be a challenge! Unless the bank manager can be persuaded!

Hacks - ADVrider
Here is a link to some sidecar action in the states. Some folks are obviously interested in hacks.

I've only ridden an outfit once (about 10 km in Denmark) and was terrified. But I would be interested in the idea - it's unusual enough to grab interest from a wide range of people. Seasoned sports-tourers might see it as 'something different', and regular outfit riders might like the idea of a fly/drive thing in a country they might otherwise never get to.

Yes, I'd give it a go. In fact, a Ural has been about half-way down my wish-list for a few years now.

Good luck.

Hate to suggest this, but follow the link to ADVrider posted above. There is a very active thread about Urals (amongst all the other Ural threads there). Go into it with your eyes open, one mans easy to fix classic is anothers maintenance over sensitive badly made POS.

Of the real long distance riders Hubert (apologies can never remember his full name) gets along with his but has contacts at the factory and no time constraints, while the chap currently in Indonesia would sleep easier if he went for the gallon of petrol and match solution.

This is the huge advantage of the rental solution offered at the very top IMHO, when it breaks I assume you just climb into the support vehicle and the tour will be paced at what they will excel at. No need to try and get a 50 mph vehicle 2000 miles away before you can change the oil and start to enjoy it

Andy