Charging cameras etc without a battery?
 

Dear all, I am looking at the spec for my next adventure/RTW bike. I've decided on the frame, engine, suspension etc but cannot decide what to to in terms of electrics. Running a battery-less system is appealing but I would also like to be able to charge a digital camera etc whilst on the road - has anyone found a way to charge things other than off the bike electrics that actually works? It has to weigh less than a bike battery!

Cafes and lodgings?

It depends on how long you plan not spending half an hour in either.

A charged camera or phone battery, even without carrying a spare clipped into the charger, generally lasts a long time except in extreme cold.

I ran a Honda XR600 as my long distance bike for many years and as you may know, that's a direct ac system without a battery. Quite honestly it was a pain in the a*se. You couldn't do anything without the engine running - and not much more when it was. I did eventually fit a small battery with a rectifier just so I could run stuff like led camp lights, sat nav etc.

Most of the time though I had to charge cameras, phones whenever I stayed in a hotel. I've tried solar chargers a number of times but in my experience the sizes you can accommodate on a bike just don't work. Maybe the door sized one you can bolt onto a Land Rover or similar might be different but if you're considering those you might as well just stick a battery on the bike.

I have had a bit of success with a small wind generator sitting on the handlebars. The fan charges up a small internal battery which will then power anything with a USB port. It won't charge it up but you can use it.

I'd guess if you're considering simple electrics then the bike'll be kickstart only. I've no idea what engine you're considering but kickstarting the XR regularly on a long trip eventually became something I detested doing. When I was tired or I stalled it in traffic I could quite happily have set fire to it and walked away. Something that requires less effort (smaller cylinders) might have been ok but the XR required a kind of ritual otherwise nothing would happen.

Thanks for the input.

The engine is a Triumph 650 twin from 1967 so I don't think that there is an electric start option. I'd thought about a fan system so it's good to know it wouldn't handle charging much before I found out on the road!

Internet cafes are looking like my best option at the mo.

I must confess to thinking of tea/snack cafes when replying above. Most would have a wall socket somewhere if there is electricity.

But I am not from the technology era!:wheelchair: (more the 1960s Triumph ;) )

I hadn't thought about taking a plug-in charger due to the size/weight and the need for socket adapters, I was planning on using the now ubiquitous USB charger, problem is some stuff takes hours to charge that way...... If I was going to take a netbook then that would have had a charger but I'm trying to keep the packing list as lean as possible so I keep the weight saving from the frame I'm using (I'm aiming for about 150 kg loaded)

A Triumph twin is a lot easier to kick start than a 600 trailie. The kickstart isn't three feet off the ground for a start. Years (many) ago I did a trip to Greece on an early 650 Yamaha twin with a friend on a 650 Triumph. The Yamaha was electric (+kick) while the Triumph was kick only and there wasn't a great difference between them when it came to starting. Good choice of engine if it hasn't suffered from the ravages of intervening time and you're not looking to spend much time on motorways.

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r.../73Corfu-4.jpg

Yamaha on the left, Triumph on the right


So what are you going to do on the electrical side? Presumably you'll be leaving the alternator on the engine and using a capacitor in place of the battery? If it's weight saving that's binning the battery and you're aiming for 150kg, I don't think the Triumph or the Yamaha weighted much more than that anyway. You could use one of the new lithium lightweight ones (under a kilo) and get the best of both worlds.

Nice photo, think I've seen that one before! The weight saving is part of the reason to bin the battery, also it's less to go wrong - a spare capacitor weighs naff all. I don't really know anything about the newer hi-tech batteries (other than Colebatch ran one real low down on his G650 Xchallenge and rated it).

The bike I'm building is basically a copy of a bike that ran a magneto/capacitor setup so there is also a (albeit very marginal) advantage in terms of simplicity!

Good to know twins aren't that bad to kick over, I've suffered in the past at the hands of early Triumph singles, later jap singles and a Ducati 650, guess I'm a glutton for punishment!

I don't like to be negative, but if you're going to such an exteme with weight saving such as you don't want to carry a couple of wall chargers, why not just leave the gizmos at home as well and it's problem solved?

If you do want to take just usb cable chargers, then take a simple wall-plug usb thing as well, and charge stuff at cafes like said - If the charge times are really that long then just take very long and laid back lunches? As well, part charging batteries is not good for their lifespan, but in this case are you bothered? An older phone can last two weeks if barely used. If you keep it turned off most of the time then the battery would last most of your trip? A good camera with a large battery will last a stupid amount of photos as well.


My dr350 was the enduro model fitted with a magneto and lighting coil arangement. I ditched this for a 3-phase alternator (along with the battery and reg/rec). In heindsight I wouldn't have bothered. The lighting coil arangement worked nicely, there is no capacitor just a tiny regulator. Kickstarting a bike numerous times a day is what reminds you that you are a man (and not a sissy girly with an electric start(and unbruised shins)).

solar chargers might work as a back up to cafe charging.

Nath - I am leaving a lot of gizmos such as GPS and hairdryers but have decided a Camera is a must have - in case I ever get round to breeding I'll need proof of my tall tales for sceptical grandchildren......

I've never seen wall socket USB chargers, that might work.

The solar chargers I've seen in use at festivals etc seemed to be a bit big for bike travel IMO

Hi Fern. My experience of solar charging on a trip has been totally negative and I've been experimenting with the things since the mid 90's. On a bike I've set a max size of (roughly) A4 and my current one puts out about 50mA. I've left stuff attached to it for days and it's still been flat (or as near as makes no difference) at the end. Maybe I'm missing some sort of a trick (I do nothing more than connect the cables and put it in the sun) but not worth the effort imho.

"Kickstarting a bike numerous times a day is what reminds you that you are a man (and not a sissy girly with an electric start(and unbruised shins))"

Ha Ha - That's ok on a DR350 where the kickstart virtually falls under its own weight :rofl::rofl::rofl:

Help yourself to an Apple USB wall charger (called the Apple USB Power Adaptor; beware of the ebay-fakes, get it directly from Apple). As tiny as it gets and a solid 1A output, should be around 29$. If you need to take an outlet adapter anyways, use the German version of the apple device as it´s not cubic but flat.

Regards
Chris

If you´re riding with a backpack, get a small flexible solar module to affix to your backpack. Will charge your small batteries during the ride. Stuff´s been around for at least two years, not expensive and working well.

I use this wall charger:

http://images.igo.com/igo/ps00278000.../zoomThumb.png

http://www.igo.com/mobile-devices/us...t/ps002780004/

Fits in the palm of your hand and gives you 2 USB ports.

But if you're looking for portable USB power, I just picked up a Zagg Sparq, slightly larger than the palm of your hand. Here's a picture of the two devices for a size comparison:

http://mym0ry.smugmug.com/Other/Misc...1726&k=4ZgVQSRhttp://mym0ry.smugmug.com/Other/Misc...01554752-M.jpg

http://www.zagg.com/accessories/zaggsparq-c.php

It'll hold enough charge to fully top up an iPhone battery from empty 4 times.

Do you know what the charge time on the zagg is - one problem with charging from USB is that they take bloody ages (at least my contour HD does, haven't bought a stills camera yet)

The Zagg *is* a USB charger, so it won't be any faster than how you're charging via USB right now. Just that it's portable (won't need an electrical outlet - at least until the Zagg runs out of juice) and it's smaller than a motorcycle battery (which is I think what you were originally asking for).

The Zagg outputs 2000mA.

Sorry, what I meant is what is the charging time for the Zagg, rather than from it!

Ah, gotcha.

I just got it, so I haven't drained it completely yet, but from what I've read online, they say about 6 hours to charge from empty to full.

And you can charge your USB devices while the Zagg is plugged into the wall recharging as well, so everything is recharging at the same time.

Henry,

Firstly, forgive my ignorance! Are you concerned about the battery getting dodgy and this interfering with the running of the bike? I won't pretend to know much about electrics (it's all the devil's business as far as I'm concerned) but my Enfield has been sat in the garage best part of three years and the battery is comletely screwed. At least half of the acid has evaporated and it holds no charge. However, I have a Boyer Bransden Powerbox fitted in place of the standard regulator/rectifier and the bike starts and runs fine.

Matt :)

PS - Wanna buy an Enfield?

Hi Henry - consider something from Power Traveller... if all you're doing is charging a camera and phone then something like this will be ideal

https://powertraveller.com/iwantsome...nkey-explorer/

The solar charger it comes with takes 8 hours to charge, but you can just leave it in your tank bag map case during the days riding and take it back up to about 75% from empty over the full day. 50% if it's overcast. But the good thing is it does 4 complete (when full) charges of my iPhone and 8 for my camera battery, 6 for the DSLR.

With just the monkey (not using the 12v socket) I can do 5 days on the road without needing a power socket - at which point I can plug that in and get it back up to 100% in 20 mins - and then I have another few days free of the grid.

If that's not go enough juice consider this one

https://powertraveller.com/iwantsome...r/minigorilla/

It runs up to a full 19v and has a higher output so charges things much much faster - including the monkey several times over. It can run my laptop from empty to 50% and takes 16 hours to charge (to full) with the solar panel sold separately or with the larger gorilla pad in a shorter time.

https://powertraveller.com/iwantsome.../solargorilla/

In practice I find that gorilla solar panel too large on the bike so rely on power points every 5 or so days and the small solar panel. The mini gorilla unit takes 45 mins - 1 hour to fully charge so it's a case of doing it over lunch / dinner rather than over a coffee for the monkey.

The monkey will charge over a 12v socket - the mini gorilla won't.

I run off those two devices (and the small solar unit):

* Android Phone
* Casio compact camera
* VERY old iPod 2nd Gen
* Panasonic G1 DSLR
* Sony eReader
* Canon HD Camcorder
* Apple MacBook (13")

If I run as normal I get 5 days between sockets, if I'm careful I get a week - and as the monkey can charge in an hour off the 12v socket I can keep running permanently if I need to on the smaller stuff. (I know you can't do this). The only thing I require the mini gorilla for is the camcorder and the macbook.

I did a brief write-up of the gear over on the blog here

Powering on | The London Biker

I must do a video of it at some point.

Matt (Cartney) - the bike doesn't need a battery but it would have some bonuses - so I'm weighing up the pros and cons....

Pros of no battery:
Simpler to build
Lighter bike
No battery to leak/dry up/die
Less tempted to take non-essential gadgets
Putting a high-tech Li battery on an essentially classic bike might be sacriligous?

Pros of battery:
Very easy to add 12v charging socket
Can run LED lights and decent HID Headlights
Could even splash out on a GPS and have it running all the time!

Matt (Cashmore)
Thanks for all the pointers, I'll check the links out - see my final choice at Ripley

Hi Henry,

Yes, makes sense. I did consider removing the battery from the Enfield for lightness (it needs all the help it can get!) but decided to keep it (or never got round to it really).

A lot of electronic gadgets you can do without or run on AAs. I'm sure there are one or two Digital cameras that run on AAs or AAAs, but it will limit your choices.

I see you considered a netbook - and they are fantastic - absolutely ideal for motorbike travel IMHO. Even a cheap one will do all you need in terms of writing a blog and editing pics. I use one, but I need it for writing when researching books. It would be tempting not to bother if I was travelling light and not writing. You could just take multiple SD cards and download your pix to Flickr or similar every time you come across an internet cafe.

What else do you need? A phone? Easily topped up with a USB charger at internet cafes or using a solar charger. I would imagine you can also use the SD card in a phone to store extra copies of your photos, although I haven't looked into this.

Just out of interest, why is it you can't charge devices off a 12v system running off an alternator with no battery?

Matt :)

To be honest Matt it's because I know naff all about electronics (as opposed to electrics, which I have just about got my head around). I have no idea whether or not the erratic voltage coming off a magneto would fry the battery in a netbook or overcook a modern camera battery. If just wiring into the main loom would be an option that would be great!

Like I said, I'm no expert, and I may be putting my electronics at risk! But, I have a cigarette lighter adapter which I wired directly to the positive and negative terminals of my XT. I know the voltage across the battery terminals depends on whether the engine is running and driving the alternator. I can't remember what the difference is, but it's a couple of volts perhaps between the engine on and the engine off. So that would suggest that the voltage is mainly dictated by the alternator, not the battery and also means I am getting a variable voltage at my cigarette lighter adapter. If I remember correctly this was the way the adapter was meant to be wired up and I didn't just assume (I do have a reasonably well developed assumption instinct) that it was to be wired up this way. This might suggest that you can charge off a battery-less system? I note that you are using a magneto of course, so I don't know what difference this would make. This is DC right? I'm guessing charging devices are set to run off AC and this might cause issues.

I'm just thinking aloud really. Like I said, its all the devils works to me.

Matt

PS - If anyone knows a good reason not to wire up a cigarette lighter adapter direct to the terminals of a battery, please let me know before I fry my netbook!

I think the problem could be caused by the voltage constantly going below 8 volts whenever you go to idle, which is the minimum operating voltage of some gadgetry. The magneto works just like an old fashioned bicycle dynamo, so when the engine's not running there is 0 volts, and it increases linearly with revs.

It might be that some or all chargers can handle it but I've been unsucessful in finding a definitive answer on the internet so far