Keep the riff-raff off adventure motorcycles
 

This is a rather embarrassing topic but one that I’d like to see discussed (if anyone can be bothered to answer the ravings of a mad man…) I suspect some of you feel as I do and I know that most of you will baulk at my cynical views.

After reading the “Pointless round the world races” thread started by nick_horley in 2002, I decided to air my view on a similar subject.
A significant part of me wants to tell everyone to get out there on a bike but the price of progress and popularity may be too high. Let me explain…

4X4 Adventuring was not a big thing in my country when I was still a boy. Sure a few people explored the country in dented LandRovers but very few ventured across the border.
Suddenly SUVs, MPVs and all manner of 4-wheel-drive vehicles became the norm.
Soccer moms congest parking lots with their monstrous Land Cruisers and BMW X5s. Every Tom, Dick and Harry has a fuel guzzling monster truck with a high-lift jack, GPS and spray-on mud! South African, European and American holidaymakers have earned a terrible reputation in some African countries for trashing their environment during guided and self-drive tours.
4x4 Vehicles have become something of a joke here. It is so popular that the average owner is now a pot-bellied, loudmouth lard-ass with his prissy wife (make-up and designer safari suit included) and no respect for his neighbour whatsoever.
Gone are the interesting bearded gentlemen and women (un-bearded) who had wise eyes and wonderful stories of the great Congo River. They wore silly colourful clothes, big hats and had earthy smelling objects d’art on their walls and odd seashells picked from distant shores.

I see the same change in the adventure motorcycling fraternity. Adventure riders were once seen as crazy petrol-heads who respected other cultures and wanted to see the world in a unique way. They were resented and admired in equal measure by their own people.
Recently, thanks to aggressive advertising campaigns by certain manufacturers, every imbecile with enough money has begun buying enormous adventure bikes with the sole aim of conquering the ‘outer darkness’. It has become fashionable to appear gnarly and colourful whilst not actually deserving the reputation…

Soon forums such as this one will be overrun by people seeking free advice whilst adding nothing themselves. They will mimic Nick Sanders' adventures. They will have “Long Way Round III” in their DVD collection and mock anyone on a bike smaller than a 1000cc. Organised tours of 10 or 20 bikes will thunder through African villages upsetting the locals. A Great Pan American highway will be constructed to enable thousands of Harleys to do the Anchorage to Terra del Fuego Iron butt rally.
The people that inspired me (Helge Pedersen, Ted Simon, Chris Scott, the Johnsons, etc.) will all be on the ‘Great Road’ with Livingstone, Ericson and Drake while those of us left who remember how it used to be will be unable to stop the machines of mediocrity.

Drama aside. From now on if anyone asks which bike they should buy I will tell them to get a moped and do their bit for the environment.
You do what you want… I’m keeping the riff-raff away from adventure motorcycling

If this posting sounds elitist or amount to hate-speech I apologise. It is only meant as a warning that our passion could be diluted by too much exposure. Aww crap, I’m sure I’ll feel better once I take my pills.

There was an article in one of the recent issues of 'Two Wheels Only' magazine, here in the UK, which dealt with the trend towards big trailies and speculating that they are going to be the next 'urban 4x4 must have'.

I'll try to look it up and forward it on to you as it was an interesting article to read.

Geoff

Hows the 1200 GS Mr Striker? Personally I found the Bavarian Motorenwerken to be the most suitable RTW weapon for the well heeled. You havent seen my sister have you?

Emotionally I agree with you LuckyStriker, but that's "progress". I dare say the brave adventurers of yesteryear who journeyed great distances on horseback or on foot into truly hostile territories would rail against those of us who take the easy option of motorised transport. The same could be said about canoes vs. sailing boats vs. motorboats etc but they are all points on a continuum. I'm for people doing what gives them satisfaction - short of doing disproportionate harm to the rest of us. In any case, I don't think the people you describe would find many kindred sprits on the HUBB or would be likely to contaminate the pure strain of adventure motorcycling, as you know it.

Maybe we need an HU code of conduct. It could tap into guides for all the new travelers while also encouraging responsible traveling. The trend cannot be stopped, but remember trends go up and down. Motorcycle travel will never become a significant problem as compared to many other similar issues.

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Brooklyn Dakar
http://motorcycleramblings.blogspot.com/

Don't worry, history will not repeat itself. You can't aircondition bikes. So, it's too uncomfortable for most people.

In any case, most SUVs never get into 4x4 territory. And if they did they'd soon be stuck.

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Salut from Southern France, the bikers' paradise,

Peter.

I'm looking forward to sitting quietly outside my tent at Ripley and doing a bit of people watching. With a 300 punter sell out there are bound to be a good few "Ewan effect" converts with plenty of wadge to throw at a bike. However, some of them may well return in 2006/7/8 with suitably battered machines after having been inspired by more seasoned travellers.

I know I was.

Mick

If SquidBrain's going to be making notes then I may as well get my confession in early... I'm near enough exactly as you describe and probably the sort of person LuckyStriker's complaining about (apart from the environment trashing part). I'm looking forward to 3 months camping around Eastern Europe and Asia in September and will be heading to the meeting for information and advice as well as meeting like minded people. I don't expect to be quite so "green" by the time next year's meeting comes around.

I guess I’m just sore that trailies are becoming the next urban 4x4. And I guess I’m angry at some tour operators since I read Fiona Cambell’s book “On foot through Africa” where she described the Overlanders killing scores of goats and chickens when they plough through starving villages. I don’t want adventure riding to become a yuppie event and later turned into a dreadful cliché.

But I reckon Jsherm and beddist are right – something so uncomfortable as motorcycling around the world will probably never become a mainstream event…
As for someone like unhinged, people like you should be encouraged.
I should shut up now before I give myself a bad name.

Isn’t people watching a little elitist? And what exactly can you conclude about somebody from the state of their bike, boots, tent or whatever?

You can’t tell how somebody came by their bike, how hard they worked for it or anything else. And who cares if Ewan inspired them?

I thought his pretrip ‘SAS training’ was ridiculous but I didn’t have to watch his DVD or buy his book (I didn’t). If others did and it inspired them, then good luck to them.

There are also ‘seasoned travelers’ who like to wash their bikes and ride what they can afford. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with different approaches to motorcycling. There’s room for everyone.
Stephan
PS Does anyone have a link for bike air-conditioning?

Motorcycle Air Conditioning, as asked for:
http://www.we-make-money-not-art.com...ves/002710.php

Thanks, Bobkat, will the inventor be exhibiting at the HU Bike Meets?

Good point, I've posted a similar comment on another forum a while ago. The time wasted would have been better spent with an experienced RTW rider who could have shown them what & how to pack their bikes. Not overloading them may have prevented the subframe breaking & thye subsequent trauma when it was welded together without first disconnecting the battery, ECU & ABS/Servo brain.

I certainly won't be either taking notes or judging anyone, and I'm sorry if I gave that impression. I think that it'll be interesting and rewarding to see and meet the folk attending, as it has been at the previous HU meetings I've been to. I just think there'll be a somewhat different mix this time given the large numbers and the media coverage.

As long as someone inspires newcomers to bike travel, I too don't care who it is, and this is what I attempted to convey.

Apologies again if any offence was taken!

Mick

I hope nobody will be watching me trying to put up my tent, -will be brand new and shiny! as would be my boots and sleeping bag.
(I would have just got them delivered form rei.com - bargain!)

But I am no riff raff. Just haven't been across africa, yet. (been dreaming about it long enough).

I hate to think people in HU/meet would be suspicious of newcamers like myself and brand them impressionable or victims of mass marketing just because our zegas' not battered
--
I suspect one of the good things of media attention with the whole media/LongW-Rnd etc is that people think that one can be normal and still plan to travel the world on a bike.

[This message has been edited by george t (edited 03 June 2005).]

George t,

I don't think anyone will be judging anyone, or suspicious - we all started off as newbies once too, and did dumb things and thought ignorant thoughts, so if judged would all be found wanting! http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/ubb/smile.gif (damhik!)

I think you WILL be impressed at how helpful and friendly everyone is - it's a truly great atmosphere at the meeting.

Be sure to say hi,



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Grant Johnson

Seek, and ye shall find.
------------------------

One world, Two wheels.
www.HorizonsUnlimited.com

I guess I'm quite new, Ive olny got about 36 Countries under my belt, I'm former British Forces and trained in Remote area trauma response. I've spent two years in Algeria and have a residents visa as well as various other African/Asia and South American Trips. I've camped in places you can't even imagine.

I've been riding a bike for some time and am am Advanced instuctor as well having done my police driving course but I'm new to Adventure riding and so my Bike is a new KTM 640 Adventure and I keep my kit in tip top condition, so what I'll need to do is take a hammer to the bike, throw dirt at it, grow a beard and not wash. Now can I come to your club!!!

Don't judge a book by.........

I was looking forward to the meeting and receiving advice etc and meeting like minded people, Let's hope there's going to be some there, I thought ALL were welcome!

Ian.

It takes ALL kinds, and Horizons Unlimited officially welcomes ALL kinds - we are VERY far from elitist in any way shape or form, or prejudiced in any way (hard to be prejudiced and travel a lot) - but this thread is kinda fun, and I hope we all take it that way http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

see you ALL there, speaking as a bearded type with a usually clean and always perfectly maintained bike.

Grant

If there were not people with the money to buy new bikes and equipment, there would be no used bikes or equipment for sale to people (like me) who make perhaps the more prudent decision to buy used.

Hi all, looking forward to the meet.
I am one of those people who was inspired, nay re-awoken by seeing Ewans travels. At 18 i did Lands End to John O` Groats, on my own, now at 38 seeing Ewans DVD and doing a search on Google for "around the world" i ended up here, glad i did i always thought i was wierd wanting to set off on my own and go places, meet interesting people, and just get out there. I don`t quite fit into the OP`s category at the mo, maybe it`s because i`m from Yorkshire, i don`t know but my bike cost me £500 i`ve held a license for 21 years. Getting married and all the resonsibilities associated with this distracted me, but hey i`m back and i`ll be honest i don`t want to travel the world just yet but but i do want to meet you guys,girls and learn,....nay maybe inspired. I`d never even heard of Jupiters Travels but now it`s sat on the bookshelf, and i try and enthuse it to every friend or family member.

Looking forward to the meet. I can understand the sentiments of the original OP, but every club needs new members.
PS coming with my 17 year old son as i`d like him to experience this wonderful event.(He`s the one on shandy)
Carl

[This message has been edited by DustBuster (edited 04 June 2005).]

travelling is about fraternity, solidarity, tolerance, understanding, since the beginning (explorers etc ...)

posting here among travellers should be same.

everybody travels different (with cheap or expensive equipement, with or without crew, with or without experience) and all is respectable, as far as it s a little genuine/authentic.



[This message has been edited by vincent danna (edited 05 June 2005).]

Hi Ian Hadden

Thanks for your post. It was the funniest thing I’ve read all week. Hilarious!
Like Grant said, you need to take this thread with a pinch of salt. Keep in mind that my views are my own and not that of Horizons Unlimited or any participant on this B Board.

After re-reading my original post I believe that I meant what I said.
Big trailies seem to be the ‘next urban-4x4 must have’ (thanks Geoff for the term) and I find that to be a pain in the arse.
I don’t want to suggest a dividing line between the ‘worthy’ and ‘unworthy’. That would be very wrong and besides, there’s no point. A line already exists between the ‘want-to’ and ‘doing-it’ and I think HU does fine work in helping people cross the line.
I also don’t want to limit the amount of people who live the ‘long way round’ life but I think there are people in this world that should be kept at home. For instance, I don’t want Ali-G riding a pimped-up Katoom a day ahead of me claiming he’s my best mate and knocking up the chief’s daughter.
Bike manufacturers are selling a dream to certain gung-ho and inconsiderate people that I wish would not become aware of this lifestyle.

There, I’ve said too much again… I’ll go sit in the corner shall I?

I agree with you Vincent, but I am sure that Columbus desperately wanted to shoot Diego-fart-pants when he started doing his comical Queen Isabella of Spain impressions to the natives wearing his underpants over his head.
Come on! I’m not a travel-nazi… I’m just trying to enjoy the peace and quiet of a solitary road!

Cyril

It is early morning and as I read this, I was thinking: look what has happened to the climbing world since Hillary. I just now turned on the TV, and what is on the news? A couple getting married on top of MT. EVEREST!!

I raced in the Incas Rally in 88 and now half the roads are paved, especially some long roads to and from Cusco. Same in Patagonia, roads get paved daily. The adventure is in the mind. Progress-it happens.
Allen.

I am not a very experinced motorcycle traveller only Europe and Morocco. I would say this board should be here for all the aspirational the dreamers the old lags and the purely curious. With out any of these this board would be next to useless as know one would ask questions and no won would be able to give advice and draw from their experince.

As with all things that become fashionable it will pass and the pretenders wil move on to extreme ironing or what ever within six months.

Its good to remeber the planet belongs to all of us not juts those who have travelled around it.

Chralie

I think there is a difference between newcomers and people who come to something new with the attitude that they know everything. HU is welcoming and diverse but at the same time for the most part people don't have an attitude and don't appreciate people coming in with attitude problems.

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Brooklyn Dakar
http://motorcycleramblings.blogspot.com/

an interesting thread indeed.

We've watched this sport grow from a few intrepid people (lots of firsts) to a healthy group and now I feel we are about to see the number of people riding overland explode.

Blame Chris Scott, for his excellent books, Grant and Susan for this most excellent site. Ted Simon, Jim Rogers and a host of others may have written fantasic books, but Chris Scott and this website created simple "how to" guides, and community to back it up. There are similar books & sites, if I am not too mistaken in Germany and Japan.

We are also now seeing new magazines in the UK and US aimed at advernture biking, and increasingly large sections of bike magazines doing the same.

So this mode of travel is moving on. I'm happy to have been on the road when this was still rare, and happier to be still on the road now with company. Welcome everyone who has been drawn in - either by chance, by the recent publicity, or perhaps through encountering the experiences that people on this site have shared.

The equipment available these days is awesome - last time it took me just one week (or was it two) to go from no bike to completely outfitted and on the road. That trip lasted well over a year (or was it two)

Right now I am in South Africa (working) and have a 1200GS, which, plasticay bits and small tank aside, is a fantasic overlanding weapon. But I might just trade it in on something a little more... impractical... for my next trip.

Lance

I have two mates who are probably just the kind of people you describe, beamers, metal mules, everything brand spanking new. But i dont care, I have two new mates to go riding with and despite being new to biking both are top blokes. They might give it all up in a year or two or may not, either way I have someone to go to Norway with this summer!
(I also saw the SAS training bit of TLWR, whoever organised their training was an eejit! They could duck AK47 fire but Charlie admitted they didn't know how to use their stove! Fantastic! I guess they got round though!)
matt

luckystricker (and whoever may feel concerned),

as an oldie and even a goodie that you are i m sure :-), i guess you ll be always happy to meet an other biker/overlander on the road, discuss and help each other, even the ones you re "criticising", aren t you ?
that s the essential, no ? whatever they look like, their equipment, etc ... if you re passionate, not arrogant, willing to understand each other, as you seem to be.

the most important is the consequences of some attitudes / behaviours of some bikers/overlanders with the "locals" which may change the "locals" : their fraternity, solidarity, tolerance, understanding, that we all appreciate when we are on the road.
if one of us behaves "wrong or bad", the local may change his attitude and the next biker/overlander will have to cope with this. too bad for the next overlander !
quick silly but realistic example : you have a gps, you re lost in the middle of nowhere, 1 or 2 locals come around you, you stick your mind and eyes on your gps without saying hello, smiling to them, asking your direction and then go. what happens to the next overlander ? locals won t come anymore to him or not like the fist time, willing to help or give you a tea etc ...

i m not doing any morality, i m sure i also did some things wrong or bad with the "locals" :-)


[This message has been edited by vincent danna (edited 08 June 2005).]

LuckyStriker
A good post, IMHO. I have 2 anecdotes:

1. It amuses me to occasionally surf into ukgsers.com and to read the posturing (IMHO) of people as to what the latest gadgets are that they have just hung on their oilhead gs bikes.

2. the other Friday while heading to the Isle of Man TT (via Huddersfield) I was lane splitting in heavy traffic near jtn 7 on the M1 on my beaten up old be-luggaged Transalp, when this matey on a bike shoots up behind me and immediately presses his (puney sounding) horn... I take my time to find a gap to let him past and, quel surpris, it's a pr*ck in a business suit on a r1150 gs adventure, just the same bike for which I'm on pg 30 of the brochure (the Bolivian photoshoot one: and on the pullout poster).

He was in a hurry. No luggage. Probably making mega bucks in da Smoke. Me, I was going on holiday. I smiled, flicked him the bird and continued on my holiday jaunt.

Watching the Ewan McG and Charley Boring's thing on the TV amused me (and brought back unfond memories) of how a big fat overloaded bike is totally unsuitable for overland travel.

See you in Ripley and/or on the road.

ChrisB

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TheBrightStuffDotCom

If being lumped in with the riff-raff really concerns you, you could always buy an Enfield. Only gentlemen ride Enfields!
matt

Matt excellent idea,

enfield is the way forward!

-may be I could fit a pic-nic basket on the back or even better get Touratech to make an insulated case to keep ones G&T chilled.

is there a dealer in london?

;-)

I really don't think there is much likelihood of the adventure motorcycling community being overun by riff-raff anytime soon.

I have spent the past eight months riding around Africa and have been amazed by how few overland bikers I have met. Compared to the number of large commercial overland trucks or 4WDs, we still make up a very small community.

In my view, every single adventure motorcyclist I have met on the way has been the sort of person I would be proud to associate with, because they typically respect the environment and the culture of the countries in which they travel and have a lot of fun doing it. I cannot say the same for all the commercial overland truck passengers I have met.

Whilst I note Lucky Striker's point, having seen the annual holiday migration of South African 4WDers, towing their quad bikes and jet skis in convoy, trashing southern Mozambique, the very nature of solitary travel on a bike in rough terrain is unlikely to make this a mainstream tourist activity........and long may it be so!

Matt Cartney and george t

You may have a point there. Perhaps a different approach is needed to distinguish oneself from the masses.
I can see it clearly – The REAL adventurer could scoff at the plebs with their huge, modern trailies and invest in a vintage bike instead.
I will trade in my R1200GS and get an Enfield (or similar mature lady). The money left over will enable me to purchase the many spares needed and two wicker baskets filled with Gin & Tonic. The tonic will of course immunise me against malaria and the gin should keep me warm at night.
Circumnavigating the globe in a tweed suit and leather hood with goggles will probably look silly so I won’t go that far…

I call on the brave to get rid of your expensive machines and astound the riff-raff with your REAL machismo!

george t – I seem to remember a small shop in Leyton halfway between the Thatched House Pub and Dixie Chicken that used to sell and repair Enfields, Indians and very old DKWs. This was 3years ago but I think they are still there.


Matt Roach

I’m glad you mentioned the ‘migration of South African 4WDers’. It is indeed what I base my fears upon.
That said, having read all the posts thus far I have begun to mellow and realise that my assumptions were mostly incorrect. Motorcycling is fairly incorruptible due to the dedication needed. Overlanding with a motorcycling is by its very nature unattractive to the careless and irresponsible.

My fears have been banished for the most part by this thread.
Thank you all

Tweed is useless in most motorcycling environments, you need a coat of stout thornproof material, a deerstalker & puttees to compete effectively against the elements & to complete the "Gentleman Traveller from a bygone era" look. Plus 4's are optional.

[This message has been edited by Steve Pickford (edited 10 June 2005).]

chris, i have to admit there are many pricks who ride bikes and the guy in the suit was probably one of them.

'big fat overloaded bikes' do have their limitations for overlanding but are not totally unsuitable as you say, perhaps the 'long way round' portrayed this...but because i haven't seen it i can't comment.

i am happy with my BMW 'adventure-minus the suit' during my RTW, two-up with luggage it does most of what i need it too, but it's not ideal in every situation

show me the bike that is !!!!

Mr Lucky you are becoming confusing. I thought the tweed jacket went with the BMW....Oh they all wear that sir!

I want a Pithe helmet to go with mine. Tres cool. What do you think Bob? Although where you are a sombrero is probably going to be more fetching.

Do you really lament the loss of gentlemanly travellers or is it the loss of empire that causes more regret. The new one gives you golden gates to culinary heaven although I suspect its really scotish.

Must back to the couch the gins getting warm.

don't get me started on that pithe helmet, I almost bought one for my last trip to morocco (just for a laugh) but then I realised it costs GBP 145.00 no thank you!

not sure on tweed on the ole enflield (have to ask my tailor) but my waxed cotton bike jacket would do everything adequately (well not really) and it would look a milion miles away from the latest BMW/aerosticth jacket the riff raff are wearing these days.

may be we should have a forum on do's & don'ts of vintage adventure travel, in that way would be easier to keep all the adv travel riff raff out...

here you are george :-)
dos and donts :
http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/ubb...ML/000602.html

by the way, after the beard/no beard debate, any advice for a suitable haircut when travelling :-) ?

thats definitely "all or nothing..."

I too guess I fit in with Squidbrains description of clueless people buying big trailies (I HAD NOT seen LWR when I got the bike though!) - but I don't get people buying them for riding round roads in the UK/Europe - I only got the bike for a RTW trip, and if I have the cash when I get back will try and get a nice fast Japanese sports bike.

Also killing chickens in the third world??? are there really overlanders out there that are this sort of yuppie scum? Everywhere I have been off the beaten track everyone has been ridiculously nice to me, free lunches and chai etc so there is hope for us yet - our international reputation is at least a bit intact. That said I was on a small ferry in S.America when two Americans on bikes decided to start their engines early and rev hell out of them - not a popular move.
Maybe the code of conduct would be a good idea, but this is getting close to having rules for our delightfully anarchic hobby......

I guess its a case of be careful what you wish for. Every time something gets easier it brings in people who were'nt quite up to doing it before. My "overlanding" experience goes back to 1970 when I went to Morocco 2 up on a 250 two stroke Yamaha. No hard luggage, no GPS, no Lonely Planet, no big tanks, no mp3 players, no mobile phones, no internet (and our haircuts were checked at the Ceuta border in case we were degenerate hippys). Everybody genuinely thought we were stupid to attempt it. Bit by bit over the decades I've seen equipment and infrastructure improve to the point that last time I went to Morocco (2yrs ago) I don't even think I checked the oil.
All of these changes were ones I welcomed at the time as they took a little uncertainty out of the next trip but at the same time its brought in people who wouldn't have considered setting out without a whole raft of backups.A few years ago I met a German guy and his girlfriend at the Western Sahara / Mauritanian border. She had fallen and broken her collerbone. She got a lift to Nouhadibou in a 4x4 and flew home. The German AA recovered the bike (a GS BMW!) Without the ability to do this many people would not undertake such a trip.
My rule of thumb observation over the last 35 yrs has been that whatever is cutting edge foolhardyness now becomes easy to do ten years later and you'll see others having their hand held as part of an organised commercial tour ten years after that. They might be using vintage Enfields with wicker baskets as hard lugggage and a tweed riding suits but its more likely that they'll have goretex suits and be riding GS's
It's not just GS's that pr**ks ride. Two weeks ago I was lane splitting a holdup on the M40 when I was overtaken by a courier who physically pushed me out of the way to get past, gave me a one fingered salute and twenty meters up the road kicked the door of a car that hadn't pulled over far enough.

I think regardless of what bike we ride or what panniers or throwovers we choose...these are tools of our trade!

i dont think you can or should keep any so called riff raff away from what we do.
the taste of adventure is not something that can be owned and protected like some exclusive golf club.

I think most kind of motorcycle types e.g sports bikes,offroaders etc..have their fare share of indivduals who create a false image for the non riding public by the way they act and behave,but is their any group of road user that are regarded as saints?

And If certain people just get thier kicks from looking like a modern lawrence of arabia but without gaining the deep satisfaction that we get from seeing and being part of it all,im afraid thats their loss and nice secondhand bikes for us!!

Lee.

right or wrong?, i dunno, but i am doing it my way
 

Well if you happen to see me on the road I am riding a '99 africa twin, brand new metal mules, gps and roll chart holder on the handlebars. Have spent a lot of time reading stuff on this board, and come Monday I will be in New York waiting for my bike to turn up. I have my digital camera, my camcorder, laptop, and under pressure to buy a cheap mobile in the states.

I may be the yuppie, I may be the riff raff, but I am doing this trip on my own, in my mind it will be the first and last time cos cant imagine being in a position to be able to do two or more rtw's in one life but who knows. It is my trip, I am doing it my way. Minimal route planning except to want to do the trans am trail, route 1 california and be at the horizons meeting in Argentina. I dunno how long I am gonna be on the road for, taking it one day at a time but have all my flights booked I want, completely flexible and taken 18months off work.

In my humble opinion, everybody does there own trip, in there own way, and there own style.

This is why we are still classified as being individual

Ride safe and hopefully get to meet a few of you on the road

Paul

I think that these people you mention will turn around when the going gets tough.

The first puncture they have and they realise they will have to fix it with out any help from the breakdown organisation. Or the first time they ride through a terrible rainstorm and the realise that they have to pitch there tent in it. Start cooking in the wet whilst wearing wet clothes.

And when there sleeping in the tent at night in the middle of nowhere and they get an urgent call of nature. They will have to climb out of a nice warm sleeping bag, unzip the tent, and take a dump in the woods, whereupon they discover they got the squirts because they ate something that did not agree with them. Forty five minutes later its still raining and there still squatting because they got a bad stomach, they got cramp in there legs because they've been squatting for so long. there shivering because of the cold, but can't go back to the tent yet, whilst the stinging nettles stinging your arse (don't ask me how i know?)

Or when there dealing with the Russians at the border in the rain for three hours, the inks running on there forms there writing on and the pen keep tearing the wet paper and the very unhelpful border staff barking orders at you.

Belive me mate i don't think these people will hack it. Its not like a 4 wheeled vehicle where what you can nap in if you can't be bothered to pitch your tent, or shelter from the elements to cook or fill in forms at border crossings, and driving is not as tiring as riding, i know because i drive a lot of miles for a living.

They will soon discover that biking is not a glossy photo of oneself riding over a sand dune on an unladen bake, in the glorious sunshine. Once they discover that, there will be some that turn around, or others that will dump the bike and fly home. But there will be a small minority that realise it is not as easy as it looks, and soldier on and batter there brand new bike. Its the latter that will be welcomed into the fold. They will have been through the mangle and out the otherside




Maverick Bubble

A case (groan) in point?

Regards, Mick

As a young lad I went to America in the late 70s and got myself a bike and went for a ride quite a long ride in a then strange country with a lot of hang ups about bikers, I never thought of myself then as one of this 'elite' band of adventure riders !, since then I have ridden for over nearly thirty years and travelled hear and there. I have had adventures - not all on the bike but many adventures all the same. I dont believe in judging anyone till I have known them - then maybe I will like them - maybe not, thats life but am i to asume that the elite of the 'Travellers' will judge me - is that cos my bike is clean, I Have short hair ( well nearlly none now), dont wear a funny hat, dont display proof of my travels all over my bike or home, or is it cos I saved and Treated myself to a new Bike (3 yrs ago) which will last me for maybe the rest of my biking time. I find can afford a little better than i put up with over the last twenty odd years and do a bit more now.
Please do not even get into this judging people by what they have or have not, some may be new to this travel lark and maybe there dream is not as big as yours -maybe they went to france for a weekend and to them that was the adventure of there life but remember - From little acorns grow large Oak trees, and this is the same for people and adventuring we all started somewhere. What we have, how much we earn and what we do is nobodys Business, We are and should remain a community of people with a common interest in bikes and Travel.

Adventure950 puts this topic into perspective. We have no right to judge who is "riff-raff" and who is not. For me, motorcycling has been with me for 20 years, although on and off. I have never desired to take a RTW trip, but rather several hundred miles.

Due to cost and other obligations (mainly cost) I have spent the princely sum of $1250 USD for a brand new Jetmoto 200cc enduro (Chinese made). I intend to ride it further and further on weekend jaunts throughout the desert southwest of Arizona, California, Baja, and Sonora, Mexico.

The potential good thing to look forward to regarding "riff raff" is that when and if these new riders grow tired of their steeds, there should be a wide selection available on the used market. I know that I'll be near the front of the line!

As Adventure950 put it,"from little acorns grow large oak trees"....i'm at the twig stage right now.Started riding at 4 years old(dad and grandad were lifelong bikers) and now aged 34 i'm venturing further and further every time.A few years ago i travelled around Scotland on a 250 MZ,then Ireland and Scotland again on a R65,then France,then the rest of europe,Slovenia and Croatia on a XL600LMF(last year).This year i've been abroad twice already,am going to Morocco and Sahara in the middle of August(!!!) to ride as much piste as possible.When i get home i'll have 3 days to clean the sand out of everything then it's out to France again for another 3 weeks.My first trip abroad was 2 years ago.Why?Because between the age of 4 and 32 i've spent all my money and time competing in just about every different sort of motorcycle sport there is(havn't tried ice racing yet 'coz we never get enough of it!).I've never been married,have no kids,don't smoke or drink like a fish(i've tried the pubs and clubs scene but find myself thinking about what to do next to the bike in the garage) or do drugs,i rent where i live and don't have more than £500 in the bank at any one time.I live for my bikes.But these last couple of years i've been getting tired of going round in ever faster circles and want to find something that leads me somewhere i've never been before.I get a huge amount of satisfaction from making my own stuff rather than buying it(could'nt afford it anyway) and have never owned ANY vehicle less than 6 years old.
My point here....there are some of us who have other reasons for not travelling the world.Had i saved all my dosh over the years i'd be very able to go off for a few years and see the globe,but i would'nt have the memories of the good races/trials/etc,that i do have.If i had travelled the world first and raced afterwards i probably would'nt be here now(it's amazing how little you break when you're young!).
So if you see a tall bloke without long hair(have got a beard tho) on a rather home made looking 21 year old XL600 at Ripley,be gentle please as i'm a bit fresh at all this.
Jon.

I'm 23 and a little pissed right now (drunk, not annoyed). I've never been travelling before but as mentioned in previous posts... travelling seems to attract people from all walks of life.

I've just finished uni and long before then dreamed of disapearing off into the sunset. I'm looking at doing my first (hopefully not last trip next year).

I'm not travelling in a group and am hoping to do chaitable work while I'm over in India. All this talk of running over chickens and goats makes me kinda upset. I ran over a rabbit last year, does this make me a bad person? It jumped under my wheels. Nothing I could do

If I'd not have gone to uni maybe i'd have travelled more and I'd be able to say I was one of the travelling elite.

Or maybe if I'd have worked more I'd be a fashion eilte person and it would be the chino jeans and golf clubs that defined me as being elite (probably not), but who knows.

Anyway, in the mean time wish all of you the best of luck with your travels and who knows we may meet on our travels.

Btw if your looking for a bike fit to travel the world on I'd go for something like an Aprillia RS250. Its got loads of power for a small bike, comfy and should last atleast 125,000 between rebuilds.......

On further inspection I think the RS250 "might" be a slight liability...

The world has become overly concerned about safety, and societys attempt at trying to eliminate virtually all risk what so ever is making people more and more paranoid by the day... and when cars safety standards do quantum leaps between every gnew generation of cars, and motorcycles barely change, the relative perceived risk is going to be greater, keeping the riff raff in the cages... or if on a bike, safely parked outside a local café.

In my opinion, if the person is willing to deal with all the "risks" and discomforts of riding long days and spending more than a weekend away on their bike, great! If somebody don't have the means or energy to deal with all the logistical nightmares of going it on their own, but prefer to join a tour and have a better preparation/riding ratio, they do have a point. We just get pissed because others are doing the same stuff as us but without the effort, undermining our cred and the magic of our acchievments.

I got news for you, pioners have paved the way so that world travel of any kind is easier. Books have been written, internet sites and bulletin boards are flourishing, clubs have been established, tour operations are popping up all over the place, pavement has been put down, etc. Travelling anyware has become easier, and is becoming easier by the day, and everyone is doing it, and will do it more and more as more of the world becomes accessible. The problem for us adventurers is that there are very few frontiers left to discover. Those that come after us take many things in place for granted and don't understand the acchievements of those before... or simply don't care... "...in the old days it was up hills both ways... blah, blah, blah", and very few would want the old days back. Even most of us appreciate things such as cell phones, internet, etc., making our travels easier.

Although there is satisfaction in overcoming challenges, the unknown and being among the first pioneers, the most important thing is to go.

But if the attention is so important, cover your bike in stickers, maps, dents, scratches, etc., thats what I do.

Your definately right there. Kinda makes you wish that you were one of the first. But I guess the world is only so big and can only be discovered once.

I might try and find some really crap countries that no-one wants to go to and do it on a golf buggy just so I can say I was the first.....

To be honest I'm plannin on going to India some time next year and know that thousands have done it before me. I dont really care though, for me I just want to live MY dream and hopefully do more such trips in the future.

I guess it would be more impressive if I walked to India but thats really not on my agenda.

Try a RTW on a tuk-tuk :)
Sure it's never been done before but think about it! They're tough, can carry a hell a lot of weight and are simple engines. Can go on forever! :D

http://www.math.uio.no/~fredrigl/tec...tuk/?sfgdata=4

I read about a couple of chicks riding a Tuk-Tuk from Thailand to Europe somewhere... but if you hurry you might be the first to go rtw on a Tuk Tuk

250 triumph or 3GS and 2 Toyotas, all have a storey.
 

I have only done one real trip, and it was only a couple of months and only to Morroco and europe, but it opened my eyes and i am hooked on long holidays to distant places.

i think we should be careful about pidgeon holing people. if folk want to ride about on big trailies and think they are adventure riders from the Dakar races, let them, only if you actualy go and partake in the great world do you have the memories.

lol, yeah I heard about the girls going round the world on a tuk tuk :)

I was kinda jokin about the golf buggy (and the RS250 ;)

It'd be nice to be the first to do it on some strange wacky veihcle but I'm going accross to India to do voluntary work and thought it would make more sense to ride there cause i've always wanted to do some propper riding.

I gather that its paved roads all/most the way so I'm thinking a Kaw GT550 might be easy enough for that distance. That or fly over there, buy an Enfield and ride back.....

Have to agree with you;I always thought that "adventure biking " need someone who was a free thinker;not prejudiced against anyone.
I also believe that only those of the right mind set will suceed in it.

riff-raff?
 

Very well put "Stefano" in your post #10 reply. Nuff said..... Here's a hankie for you luckystryker to wipe your tears and blow your nose on after you stop boo-hooing the destruction of "your" "adventure motorcycling??". And by the way, where do you fit in? riff or raff? Smitty

maybe its time
 

how about a secret handshake? i mean to id the hardcore..

I second the motion
 

Or a sexy wink?

Now that could very easily just land you in trouble!
I dont think I'd like some hairy assed, dirt covered, leather clad biker winking at ME!!!!!!!!!

SAS training
 

Better get some SAS training. I know this movie "Long Way Round"............

Joe Stalin
 

"Who cares about the riff-raff. In ten or twenty years, no one will even remember them". Joseph Stalin