old BMW GS1200 or new bike with same price?
 

Hello,

We are living in Australia and we want to ride back to to south Asia and silk road up to Turkey. As far as I know many people suggest that BMW GS1200 is one the good one for two up. But it is quite expensive for us at this stage and if I want to save money to get one it takes a long time.

I saw some GS1200 with 40,000 to 60,000 k on odometer. My question is, is this a good idea to get old one? or go for something cheaper but a bit newer?

If yes, How old and is this easy to fix that on road if anythings happened?

I'll appreciate all suggestions.

Cheers,
Pejman

Hi Pejman and welcome,
You will find opinion on the 1200GS very divided on this forum, some people think they are a fantastic and versatile all round bike and others that they are overrated, overweight and unreliable. Although I have never owned one have formed the opinion from other peoples experiences that they are not as mechanically or electronically as reliable as they should be.
The deposit for the carnet is another factor to consider, it will be expensive so an older, low mileage model might be better.
I would think about something slightly smaller such as a BMW F800, Triumph Tiger 800 or even a Suzuki V-strom 650 will be perfectly capable, lighter but with more than enough power, remember there will be days when you won't even reach 100 kph. Basic servicing on any of these bikes should be possible if you are a reasonably competent mechanic, it is diagnosing an electronic fault which can be a problem and the Japanese bikes seem to have a better reputation for electronic reliability.
Have fun with your planning, it is a great trip which will be an unforgettable experience.

Thanh you very much for replying.

It was helpful.

Cheers,
Pejman

Weestrom (new or used) would be my idea (I've broken too many Bavarian chocolate fire guard designs). Tips/thoughts:

• The manual calls for 4500 service intervals but only an oil filter every other time. 6000 miles and a filter every time will be fine.
• Heidenau K60 tyres give a real improvement on rough stuff.
• Buy some spare centre pop rivet type connectors as used to fasten the bits of fairing together. To get at the air filter and back top plug you need the inner fairing and tank off. Takes under ten minutes but there are a good dozen of these little plastic dots and you are bound to lose a couple to the chuck-key/washer/13mm spanner eating gremlins that inhabit every workshop.

Enjoy your trip

Andy

Thanks Andy. So you reckon it is also good for two up?

the vstrom can be connected to your phone for electronic scanning.see the stromtroopers site.besides giving you the 60 mpg and ability to run 80 octane gas,efficiently.

buddy of mine does plenty of touring 2up on a wee strom. he is not the smallest man i know, doesn't have any problems.

If you can, go and have a test ride with different options.
All bikes are mechanical, so something might go wrong and break.
All bikes have their own positive and negative things.
Can you do your own service or do you need to rely local mechanics?

I have been on the road now 2,5 years with my 2005 R1200GS. At the moment she has 310,000km.
It has had some issues (some due to too much speed...).
Reason why I took this bike was because I already had it and I know bike really well (new bike I would have needed to dismantle few times and learn it´s weak points).

Another vote for DL-650 !

I want to see the new africa Twin also. But not sure if the spare parts are any available on the road yet ? ! :innocent:
:scooter:

So long as you are tall enough (same issue with any bike of this style) they are great two up. I'm a short **** who rarely meets more than a few hundred yards of gravel hence my switch back to a road bike. The wife loved the DL's back seat once safely on it though.

Don't let the engine capacity trick you into thinking "small bike" the Wee is 70 HP, full size and at times anything but wee with full tank and luggage. Does motorways like a touring bike, survives places only a 125 trail bike would be fun on.

Andy

++1 for vstrom. Done many tours 2up and has been great on hard top and dirt gravel with 80/20 road tyres. Anything more requires tyre swap. Mud is not a good place to be. comfort is great.

sent via tapatalk on the road.

The best tip i ever got was not to buy a BMW when i was young. Now many years later i can only pass this on. Seen tooo many BMW breaking down and becoming more costly to repair then two new bikes.

v strom, transalp or AfricaTwins are great, reliable and way cheaper.

Hi,
I have a R 1200 GS IN Europe. That bike is superbe for the good roads like in Europe.

For South America I have a V Strom 650. This bike is light and fast enough for the roads in SA. Enough power.
I have made a tour with this bike and am very glad.

I suggest that you should buy a new V Strom 650 and put some Touratech on it and enjoy.

Djin

"others that they are overrated, overweight and unreliable."

This. I've own 3--all bought new. I now ride Japanese bikes. Just one man's opinion.
If you go for the BM, have the final drive bearings replaced.

Any bike can be unreliable. I have owned a range of bikes including BMW's and here are my observations as someone who goes travelling

The cost of the carnet for your trip could seriously influence your bike, I would investigate that first and decide what your carnet budget is and work back from there

As for the bike I have travelled long distance on both a 1200GS and a 650GS but only 1 up. I like both bikes and so far reliability for me has not been an issue.

I rode my 650GS across North America twice covering 18.500 miles. In that time we only changed the tyres and had an oil change. We left them for 6 months in a storage locker and they started first time!

I now prefer the 650GS as its lighter, and has much longer fuel range but then I am only 1 up.

Look at your route and see what type of riding you will be doing.

I have just come back from Nepal, riding an old Royal Enfield with road tyres across some serious off-road stuff due to an unexpected diversion. It coped much better than many acclaimed off-road bikes. The moral of the story is that most bikes will go almost anywhere its normally the riders experience that will be a problem first.

Hope you have a great trip

Hi Helumi,

I just have a question about your sponsors. Is this possible to get any sponsor at the stating stage? How did you get them?

Thanks,

Hi,

Just wanted to know, is this possible to get sponsor at the starting point? I was thinking about photography equipment and how can I convince them.How can I deal with sponsors?

Gotta go with the flow here... the DL650 may not be everyone´s cup of tea, but for lower budget 2-up long distance, it is pretty tough to beat. The older version (2004-11) like ours below wasn´t bad, but newer (2012-15) has improved in several ways. It won´t be as comfy, or as powerful as a new big GS, but you can´t expect that at about half the price.

More or less no insurance company will be willing to cover your bike´s value, when you go to Asia, so that is something to consider. I think you need to be prepared to lose the bike completely, if something happens to it (stolen, sunk in a river, burnt, totalled in a crash, etc). Even if something doesn´t happen to it, it will gain age quite rapidly on a trip like this. Those are important reasons, why I would not go on a very expensive bike, if a cheaper bike could get the job done just fine.

But don´t just listen to others – test ride all the bikes you are thinking of, and see, which one YOU like best. That is ALSO a very important factor, and a very personal one.

Our 2007 bike in Iran – on the way to India, and Australia actually, it never missed a beat:
http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/.../crop_1761.jpg

.... and don't forget the warranty on a new bike :thumbup1: , wich can be very nice, too

Although some manufacturers such as BMW and Triumph will often not honour the warranty on a bike that has not been used as the manufacturer intended, as in overlanded. You will also have to get it to an authorised dealer to get warranty repairs done and ones outside of your home country might still want paying.

Hi lmhobbs are you in India now?

How is your planning going Pejman? ?c? (What's That you say, Wife's booked a package tour?:helpsmilie: Sorry mate!)

Curious bunch of suggestions. I don't agree with ANY of them. The DL650 is a great bike ... but .... Where will you be starting your ride?

I imagine you will fly from Oz to somewhere in Asia? Yes?

The best thing would be to buy small bikes locally once in Asia. One for EACH OF YOU! Travel light and cheap. I'm sure these bikes will be cheaper and much easier to do boat and Ferry crossings than a GS or Vstrom. Yes?

Ride what MILLIONS of natives do. Also, you will save straight away by NOT paying HIGH Oz prices for your bike and NOT paying Shipping costs and Carnet for the "big" bike. Be smart.

Sell off your bikes at some point, (maybe Turkey?) ... once in EU ... then you can buy a BIG motorbike. But by then your wife, I'M sure will demand her VERY OWN BIKE? Can you handle that? bier

I would get a more relyable japanese bike but not a newer one. Rather something like Honda Transalp or Yamaha Tenere. Or get two very small bikes who are common in Asia. Then you will not have any problems finding spare parts...

There is nothing cheap to replace on a 1200GS. Of any variety.

Funnily enough, the most expensive parts are the ones which are the weaknesses.

In a nut shell with nutshell prices.

Fuel pump 200 quid
Fuel pump controller 80 quid
Drive shaft 200 quid
RWD rebuild 800 quid
New RWD if too far gone 1500
Clutch replacement 600 quid
ABS pump 1500 quid

And don't forget that a BMW charge 100 quid an hour and most jobs require their specialist tools or diagnostic equipment so you might as well add anything from £200-£800 labour on top of those prices. But people pay it. Like they're buying a coffee. Would make my jaw drop.

So yes, a BMW is a nice bike while it is running well. But they don't run well for long and they are expensive to fix. That is where many people get tripped up.

Now there are MANY MANY BMW fans. They tend to have deep pockets and very short memories...

Ref: I'm an EX BMW main dealer technician.

I had a 2006 1200GS, sold it with 55k kms on the clock (stupid me). While I never had any problems with this bike and I never had any problems with my present 2009 1200RT, there is quite a few issues with these bikes, just read the respective forums. I have a second bike now, the 2014 Suzuki DL650ABS and I love it. Great for beat up secondary and hard packed roads, very comfortable, good handling, enough power. Highly recommend.

The inherit problem with motorcycles is "there is always one better,faster etc.
Get your bike after due consideration n go,might also be good to know the problems which come with the model,if none all the better.

:funmeteryes::
Actually the plan was to get a bike here then shipped that to Singapore and start from there. My wife wouldn't ride :Beach: so it's us and one bike:scooter:!
Well after all these lovely feedbacks I'm serious about Vstrom. I'm Gonna go for test ride 650 and 1000 2014 and see how it goes:mchappy:

Just reading over the list above reminded me of why many of the 1150 owners remove the ABS system altogether; that era of ABS was particularly troublesome.
Later versions of BMW ABS maybe less so? I guess that is what happens when a manufacturer is first into the market for bikes fitted with ABS; from 2016 it will be compulsory for all new bikes sold within the EU. Traction control may follow.

+ there are quite a few independent BMW service places in the UK nowadays. There must be one for nearly every county, in the same way that BMW allocate their main dealerships to each county "territory".
In some cases these independents have upped sticks from the main dealers (and in some cases after many years of working at the same location) and set up their own business, in some cases taking their customers with them.
Here is one case of a rebuild which gives a clear indication of the work involved.
http://adventurebikerider.com/forum/...e-rebuild.html

Setting up independent garage services in the UK was given massive encouragement a few years ago with the EU legislation concerning servicing of vehicles - fundamentally, this killed off the restrictive practices of the trade.
All reports I have seen and heard elsewhere are very complimentary about the independents. I suppose they have to try harder.

Dave,
The problem some indies have is that BMW won't sell them or allow use of the proprietary software or computers to download codes and such to diagnose faults.

In some cases clever aftermarket companies hacked systems and built gizmos allowing indies to diagnose BMW systems, download error codes, tune and whatnot.

But BMW Continually change bike computers and software, making it very tough for indies to compete without specialized "dealer only" analytic equipment. :nono:

I agree about early 1150's ... lots of problems. My BMW GS test bike lost it's clutch (NO abuse on my part) on a BMW sponsored press ride!) Some red faces on that one.

But BMW has had ABS since "about" 1995 or so? Maybe earlier? I tested one of the very first K100RS with ABS ... kinda sucked ... but it was cool because no one else had it then! BMW just aren't always great at problem solving. doh

We hear lots about failed BMW GS drive lines. (shaft or bearings or trans or whatever) This a long and tragic story that's gone on since the very first Oil Head motors!

In 2003 (or so) when Yamaha introduced the FJR1300, Yamaha simply used a shaft drive system they'd used on their cruiser models back in the 80's. With very little alteration, this ancient system was bolted straight onto the
FJR ... and very few drive lines have every failed ... and this a bike with about 30% more HP than the GS or any BM twin.

This bit of Yamaha history was told at the official USA FJR press introduction ... along with engineering drawings I did not fully understand!. But I trusted enough to run my FJR test bike up to about 145 mph on the empty Anza Borrego desert roads. No failures but plenty of dragging of hard parts through corners and cooked legs from the HOT engine.

But then you don't hear much about BMW RT's failing compared to GS's. I used to believe it was off road use ... but the fact is ...many many GS drive line failures happen even to those who NEVER go off road! :helpsmilie:

POINT IS ... BWM are just a bit slow at solving serious engineering problems.

Ever heard of Gold Wing, or any Japanese shaft drive cruiser losing it's final drive? I'm sure it's happened .. but I never heard of it .
Only guys drag racing V-Max bikes ever blew shafts. (150 HP)

Slightly OT and sorry for the pedantry.


ABS is a 40 year old technology and can be diagnosed with a wiring diagram and multimeter. it has:


2 ABS sensors that make a steady AC voltage when the damage and run-out free polewheels are spun and have a given resistance.


A solenoid block cum pump which fires when connected to power and controls fluid flow without leaking. It fails to a standard brake system which can be used normally (although possibly illegally in the EU).


An ECU which has power.


A loom which connects the above together and to a warning display.


It is far far easier to diagnose problems with an OBD2 reader but far from impossible without.


What BMW introduced was a CAN network with multiple layers of additional functionality, lots of dis-information/bull**** such as "resets" (actually just clearing the error memory) and an incredibly badly trained dealer network which was allowed to cover its shortcomings with mystique and high prices. People were right to fear a 2-month long, thousand pound debacle but not the technology. Every truck and bus in Europe has ABS or EBS which by this September will include radar and lane cameras. They don't suffer the maintenance crises you hear of on BMW bikes. Hopefully mandatory ABS will bring the proper auto electricians in on the job and the problem will go away.


Don't let the weird kid who pee's in the paddling pool put you off beach parties.



Andy

All good stuff gentlemen; please keep this type of useful technical information flowing!

I do remember the original introduction of ABS, in the UK anyway, to BMW bikes - and it was innovative.
They used demo videos (or whatever tech that was back then; 16mm tape??) of K bikes sliding about on skid pans with outriggers fitted to the bikes so that they did not actually fall over when braking hard (fitted to those bikes which did not have ABS).
The stopping distance results were impressive, but of no interest to the "old timers" of the day.

Incidentally, a OBD2 bit of kit is sold on ebay for about £10.

As I understand it, all of the servicing records of BMW bikes are not held by the local servicing garage but are sent back to the big server in Berlin.
Car manufacturers are doing similar things.

I had that same drive line on my XJ900, manufactured in 2001 (and earlier of course); as you say, it is still used today for the FJR.
It is a neat looking, compact final drive which never seems to give problems used on the highway.

Makes sense if you have parameter files. Say they change a sensor and the new one is slightly different because the manufacturer has changed. You want them to fix the problem, not use old stock or simply show you the door. The new bit can work if the electronics are told about it. You don't want the change reversing when you have oil changed at a different workshop. If you fit a bit yourself and it just works, no problem.

What we really want is legislation to make you the owner of the data. Then any workshop with the tools can do the vehicle change and the record update.

The iRIPOFF model is winning though, you rent the parameter files.

Andy

BMW recalls 300,000 R and K models | MCN

BMW recalls 300,000 bikes - Motorcycle news : General news - Visordown

I love how every BMW recall is always someone else's fault....

It's the ultimate riding machine, therefore any fault must lie elsewhere.

Lawyers and marketing, logic Stephen Hawking would struggle with!

Andy