RTW Trip camping
 

Hello All.

First post on here; I am planning a RTW trip in 2023, planning to do Alaska-Montreal-UK-Turkey-India-Thailand-Australia-S. America-Seattle on an Africa twin.

I already have a cost estimate figured out covering everything from buying a 2018/19 Africa Twin to the Carnet and other costs (~45k for an estimated 15 months).

The one thing I can't get a good handle on is lodging. My goal is to camp as much as possible, but I understand that sometimes a campsite will be unavailable or I won't be able to find a good place to wild camp. I plan to do about an 80/20 on-road-off road route and was wondering if anyone had any info to help me better quantify how much I should set aside for lodging. As of now I am planning to camp 5 days a week and find some place to stay two days a week for an average hotel/hostel cost of $30 in addition to spending less time in more expensive countries.

Any insights will be helpful.

Thanks and happy riding.

RTW Trip camping
 

The only thought was the choice of bike.

If you are going to free camp then you will be looking at out of the way places on tracks and trails. Being on your own you will be reliant on others to help you when you get stuck/bogged/fall over.

Maybe a lighter bike would be more suitable? CRF300?

Edit: What are you going to be doing in Australia? If it is the tracks through the middle of Australia (Birdsville Track, Simpson desert etc) large adventure bikes are another magnitude of difficulty, as is riding to the tip. See Shadower 75 on YouTube for the difference between a large adventure bike and a couple of 250’s.

Simpson;

https://youtu.be/FTSuBrWeJDY


Simpson on little bike;

https://youtu.be/Lm9SbGWDz7c




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Lodgings
 

Hi Jens,
here are a few details that might help in regard to moving around Australia where I live. Fuel cost on the east coast, especially in the major cities is the cheapest. Currently in this regional city (Maitland NSW), 30 mins inland from the coast and 2 hours north of Sydney, 91RON fuel costs $1.49 Aus per litre for the cheapest unleaded fuel. Sydney would be cheaper. Further inland, the cost goes up.It could be close to double that in the Outback locations.
Accommodation costs pre-Covid were as follows…Average motel room cost in a regional town of say 8000 people hours west of say Sydney, varies from $80-120 Aus. I doubt you will stay in them but you might be stuck once or twice. Youth hostel costs vary. Ninety percent of our hostels are based along the East coast of the states of Victoria, New South Wales and Queensland. Some hostels exist on the other coastal expanse in Western Australia with others are in the major cities and some other well known tourist venues around the country. In summer in Byron Bay (East coast) in 2019 I paid about $125 for one night in a room on my own. The room was adequate. If you look up costs for YHA Byron Bay ( there are a couple of hostels actually) you will get a more up-to-date idea of costs coming into Summer ( when costs rise). B.Bay is a place full of tourists and Backpackers in season. Look up town/ city names you think you might see and look up the hostel prices- sorry… you’ve already thought of that no doubt! Motorcycle mechanics charge an average of $110 Aus per hour ( parts extra of course). A good quality off-road tyre costs approx. $200- 220 as average plus fitting, depending on size and brand. Plenty of camping areas. Free camping is reasonably plentiful too. In non-tourist seasons you will meet more caravans than you might expect, as in-season travelling for them is avoided by many due to high traffic volumes, higher costs and fewer caravan spots to be had in the parks used by them. Lastly, be careful of the road trains out west and on truck routes. Sometimes close to 100 metres in length. They take longer to pass than you might think. Highly skilled drivers though. Cheers Smoky

Google ‘Tigger RTW’
A couple, 2 up on a Triumph Tiger. The site gives a complete rundown of all costs including accommodation - brilliant information.
Unfortunately it’s mostly in the Americas at the moment but they’re moving on slowly so worth checking to see where they’ll be by 2023.

Great trip!

Some thoughts about your specific question - I think your situation will vary from area to area.

Alaska/Canada - wild camping is feasible, formal campsites reasonably priced with facilities you'll probably want to use from time to time. I'd use BnBs in cities, although AirBnB (for example) has become somewhat expensive recently.

Europe - very varied, some areas have good campsites at reasonable prices, others are more expensive, wild camping is permitted some countries, not in others.

Asia - I haven't done much camping in recent years, however my understanding is that it too varies - SE Asia has very inexpensive hostels and hotels and you may prefer to use these, particularly in more populous areas.

Australia - good advice above; to add to this, our experience is that campsites are expensive, hotels more so, BnBs not far off hotel prices. Wild camping is certainly viable, and we've done a bit in Australia. It's safe enough and helps manage the costs of an expensive part of the world.

South America/Central America/Mexico - accommodation in posadas/pousadas/small hotels is very inexpensive (cheaper than campsites in Australia) and this is a viable option. Formal campsites are fewer than in USA, Canada, Western Europe, and Australia, and in some areas security is not perfect, so it's often a better plan to stay in a posada where your bike will be secure, and it's economical.

USA again - as above.

Any reason for not going to Africa? Camping is a great option, prices are low in much of Africa (although high in Tanzania for example); there are also inexpensive small hotels/BnBs.

The way we travel is to camp as much as we can outside cities, staying in posadas/small hotels occasionally, and in hotels in the cities.

I hope this helps.

Thanks Alanymarce

Great advice.

You are right about Australia being expensive. We live in Oz and things got expensive after a camping business took a local council to court (I think the courts involved in fair trade or similar) and it forced councils to prohibit free camping as it damaged their trade. From that point, councils were obligated to either prohibit or charge for areas available for camping, this pushed prices up.

At the time. I was managing a large municipal councils legal and regulatory unit in Tasmania, where free camping is a way of life and culture. Council was great and we implemented an honesty system of self registration and a small fee, so Tasmania tended to keep its relatively free camping areas. Other states not so much.

As for Africa, I have this concern about going there, as I worked with the United Nations in missions for some time, and was uncomfortable with many of the African members nations that I dealt with. Not all, but most. They always seemed to be there to get what they could get out of it, scamming both other UN and worst of all, the nation we were trying to help. I have worked with people from virtually every nation and the African groups were the only ones I had this issue with.

Interestingly, I watch many of the motorcycle travellers such as itchy boots and on her bike, and they definitely speak more aggressively to those they meet in Africa, compared to other parts of the world, which suggests they are frequently on their guard.

I do accept 100% though that the problem may well rest with me and I have read it all wrong. I am open to having my mind reset ;)


Thanks very much for your input.

What a pity re Australia! To me Oz was the ideal country for camping in the wild, having little crime problems and lots of "empty" space.


But regarding Africa: You're right in respect of scamming and trying to draw as much funds as possible from aid missions. But this is mainly a situation with the upper class, esp. politicians. The rural people are mostly friendly and helpful towards travellers, if you treat them with respect.


But this is off the record, as Jens was asking about the costs of lodging :cool4:

Have you heard about wild/stealth camping? I did 7week ride across US only paid for camping 4 times. There are some legal like NF and semi-legal spots to camp.. camped in rest areas too. Camping in Ontario is friggin expensive you pay less for motel in Thunder Bay than for campsite.

As for cleaning while camping when you need shower they charge $5-6 at gas stations/truck stops.

When you get to 3rd world countries it is almost not worth it to camp $30 will buy you a 4* hotel in Ankara and $15 will buy you a dinner, bed and breakfast in Central Asia.. I did camp in Kazakhstan but it was just because you don't really want to be on the road after sunset with horses and especially camels.. they don't reflect any light and surprisingly fast much more dangerous than deer and moose.

Look into hostels (there're several phone apps to help) you can get one in western europe for €10-20 and in less developed countries for <$10. Bring a lock to lock your stuff in provided locker, and look for ones where your bike can be stored safely overnight. Also in Turkey booking.com is blocked if you want to see listings you need VPN

Hostel cost in Australia
 

Jens,
I have just looked up the cost of one night’s hostel (YHA) accommodation in Byron Bay, an East coast tourist hotspot close to the Queensland border. A 4- share room is $29.45 Aus dollars per person per night. A 9- share room costs $26.60 p/person per night. We have ‘Backpackers’ hostels also. These are in competition with YHA hostels. Very similar to YHA hostels. Cost p/p per night is a dollar or two cheaper. The costs may go up in a couple of months as peak season hits. Smoky

Some people a few years ago worked out the average cost of their RTW, with a heavy bias to camping. Basically if you're moving you're buying gas and if you're not then you're buying something else. They averaged $60 a day. More recently I did a mini tour of Europe (cheaper in the east) and averaged about £60 a day. It'll vary depending on the local cost of living from $10 to $100 so there's no universal formula. Just be guided by the locals and other people's experience, wild camp if it's safe and legal by all means otherwise if it's shower day book ahead for the best price you can get at a hotel.

RTW in November 2022
 

Jens, interestingly I am planning a similar trip to you. I intend to take a 2016 non-DCT Africa twin bike like your good self. They are a heavy bike but with my weight being 100kgs plus and gear added to that, I found that few bikes up to 2016 are, ‘on paper’, rated to take 190kg plus, combined weight, which I will carry (I’ve weighed most of my gear already). The registered weights listed in the manuals and spec sheets for the same bikes, do not always match mind you but double-checking with mechanics etc is helpful. The twin is modern but does not have too much electronic trickery to trouble you. Apparently, tubeless tyres can be fitted using a variety of kits, if tubed tyres put you off. It is able to use e10 fuel ( much of Europe for example, uses fuel blended with ethanol for all fuel options- so I am told) also. I have had the front and rear suspension replaced and glad I did. Parts shouldn’t be any harder to obtain than other bikes seemingly. Riding off-road will be interesting as, a lighter bike is an advantage for a relative off-roader like me but after looking at approximately 25 different bikes, this one is the choice. I’m sure others will have their favourites which is exactly how it should be, as there is no ONE bike for tripping. Smoky

I don't wish to hijack the thread, however think it may be useful to add a comment.

I think the key is that Africa is huge and diverse. There are certainly places where you are at risk, in terms of security and in terms of scams. Having said that, our experience is that the vast majority of people are friendly, helpful, and just trying to get by. If you avoid the obvious areas then you're fine; in fact I consider much of Africa safer than a few places which many would consider more secure.

This is based on my having lived in Botswana and Congo, spent a lot of time in Algeria, Egypt, and Angola, and travelled (often many times) in Morocco, Tunisia, Libya, Gabon, Namibia, RSA, Zimbabwe, Zambia, Malawi, Tanzania, Rwanda, Uganda, and Kenya.

Thank you for your advice.

I think that is the way with most countries.

:)

As you haven't already bought the bike, I will add to some of the comments above.

Outside of North America and Europe there's little need for more than 500cc and you can get away with less. And you will never find anyone on a rough trail wishing their bike was heavier.

I would always advise carrying an inexpensive emergency storm shelter in case you are caught out, but a proper tent with sleeping, cooking gear and food adds considerably to the weight. And some of the time during your 15 months you will be in the winter months when it's an awful long time dark with not much to do in a tent once you've made your meal.

Your challenge is to find a bike that's light but sturdy enough to take the weight of your luggage. If you get an older less expensive bike you will find the carnet costs cheaper, and you can put the money towards staying in hostels rather than camping.

Cooking meals while camping is overrated; I used to carry all that stuff until old wise traveler told me: cold food is still food. Since then I carry a couple cans meat, fish, etc as emergency maybe nuts and trail mix.

You can get a decent tent ~4lbs. Add sleeping bag and pad should be under 7-8lbs total, ~3.5kg. I wouldn't wanna sleep anywhere without fully enclosed tent where scorpions or poisonous spiders could be a problem, hypothetically. And while at it take all your gear and riding boots in, just to be safe.

I was always jaelous about those bike travellers who feel comfortable with the basic camping life.

Who did mostly popup a tent, use a cooker, did enjoy a campfire at night.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/advrider-ph...psd260ec15.jpg

I did love to follow ride2explorer, his travel blog who is unfortunately offline since a while. But you can order his movie: https://www.journeyman.tv/film/7775

Cheaper you cant travel, if you cook yourself and dont spend money at hostels. And it will be too more a trip to yourself, if you regulary stay lonely.

I did often the same (just wildcamp over weeks) - but by 4x4 I can enjoy more comfort, from a fridge, a lot of more food options to carry, a hot shower till a bed who is storm proof.

Surfy

I agree for short trips—I carry just a Jetboil, a mug, spoon and knife, and then packet soup, oatcakes and instant coffee with dried milk and sweetners. Oh, and white pepper and chilli flakes.

But for a 15 month trip, your cold food and nuts suggestion might be a challenge.

I don't disagree on weights, my 4-season two-man tent is 1.93kg and with footprint, sleeping mat, sleeping bag, minimal cooking stuff and food as above, it's probably realistically 6kg.

There isn't any compelling reason to cook to begin; buying food is inexpensive and time saving. I have carried my set on last 7 week trip through some desolate scenery and maybe used it 2-3 times. In 3rd world countries where you can get a bed, dinner and breakfast for $15, it's not worth the effort. I would probably carry cooking set on the trip to Siberia, old summer road, roads of BAM, but then I would rather spend an extra hour riding then cooking.. just saying. It's not like you will be in wilderness for more than 1-2 week a time.

It depends on what you get; I think my setup on other bike is 7kg+. Heavier tent, cot, etc do add weight.

Cost is relevant to the country you are in. Australia is very expensive to eat out.
And accommodation is expensive.

In US of A food is still cheap. Pandemic closed some restaurants/fast food places and you don't get discounts... still reasonably cheap for basic needs. But the era of $40-60 hotels is over, it's more like $99+ for budget accommodations and after paying $53 for campsite I ain't paying for that again.. stealth camping all the way especially in western states. Still $5-6 will buy you a shower at truck stop gas station when needed.

Would have to find out what the rest of the world like when I get to bike stored in asia.

Hello

You have a lot of shippings for 15 months, container ship, RoRo or airplane?:
Montreal-UK
India-Thailand?
Thailand-Australia
Australia-S. America
S. America-N.America

You start and end in N-Amerika, do you live there?
Why going first to Alaska and then ship to Europe, you loose a lot of the summertime of the north, better just ship in the winter to the UK and start in spring there.

Dont' forget insurances and some money for emergencies.
CDP only for 12 month valid and then you need a second, but you only need it in the middle of your trip (Iran, Australia etc)

Every RTW has a different price tag for a different Person.

Wild camping costs $0.
Campsites around the world from $5-$30, not all countries know the concept of camping.
In cities you will need a roof over your head and a save place to park the bike, in cheap countries $10-$30 for a single room and in expensive countries $20-$30 for a bunk bed in a backpacker, couch surfing maybe?

Some advice I don't get:

Small bikes and extreme light baggage are good in the sand and single tracks, but on a "normal RTW" you have to search for that.
All the known great routes are getting paved, 10 years ago there where a lot of construction sites on the Ruta 40, is there any gravel left?

Good choise of bike for a RTW in 15 months.

Emergency shelters a great for day hikers in the mountains but on a 15 month motorcycle trip one has raingear and warm cloth to survive in wind and rain over 150 km/h windspeed, like riding on a motocycle in the rain...


There are a lot of places where there are no restaurants and some like a cup of coffee or tea and a warm meal.

If a good tent is 2kg or 3,5kg or even 5kg doesn't matter, take what works for you.
Weight of luggage is overrated, take what you need an learn to deal with it.

Don't forget, he goes on a 15 month RTW, not on a few days single track trip.

sushi

Thanks for the response, going to go over some of the other posts in this thread.

In regards to the lighter bike, I was originally looking at something like a DR650 but ended up moving away from it because I dont want to put the work into doing all the aftermarket upgrades to get it ready. Also, I am pretty tall so I am valuing comfort over the size and weight savings. I will probably run into some issues when shipping in terms of cost, but I'd rather be comfortable on the road than save some cash.

For Australia I was going to start in the North and head to the east coast then go do the southern coastal highway and most likely shoot up through the center. Open to any advice to make the Australia trip as good as possible! Appreciate the cost estimates for hotels/fuel.

I left off Africa from the trip just because I feel that I would want to spend a lot of time there; I want to do this trip in 1.5-2 years and don't want to feel rushed. I already feel that I might not be able to see everything I want on my current itinerary! This will probably be a separate trip in the future.

In regards to the post above, I live in the US and am going to do a ride to Alaska as a check ride (grew up there so I want to visit some friends) and then will head east since I haven't see much of that part of the country. In terms of timing getting to Europe in the spring/summer, I will have to work that out. Itinerary is definitely fluid.

There is a lot of shipping involved for this trip, based on my research it seems that the best option is flying the bike if you can as there are less hidden costs and you can get there quicker. I am willing to change the mode of transport as I get closer to each decision point. I also am willing to cut out the shipping from India to Thailand, it's just it seems it is hard/expensive to travel through some of the countries in between.

In terms of cost, the 45k is the number I want to try and stick to but I will have plenty of left over for emergencies and higher than anticipated costs. I want to try for as small a budget as I am comfortable with as a personal challenge.

Thanks for all the advice!

.. speaking of coffee and tea you can get an inexpensive €.5-2 cup of expresso/cappuchino in europe, turkish/greek coffee I greece and free tea at any purchase at any gas station in turkey, or any food purchase in muslim countries. There's no reason to carry something half world you won't need until you get to australia.. can be purchased there. As for time 7 days, 7 weeks, 7 month it's all the same if you don't use something for weeks you don't need it, IMO. And weight is relevant for the state of your bike and when you need to pick it up. There were times in central asia when I started day by looking for welder, 4 days in a row sometimes.

@OP look into guesthouses iOverlander has some info and some listed in booking.com and in google; they're common in eastern europe and asia.. other parts of the world too. Talk to locals when you are going through village and see people selling food (tomatoes, potatoes, etc) they can be talked into cooking it for you. When my frame cracked and local "master" and I worked on the bike for a couple days I stayed in his house and he fed me.. all together was pretty cheap. And places selling food in remote villages where there's no guesthouses can let you stay overnight when customers gone; at least you would have roof over your head. You might end up listening to donkeys all night but that's another story. Make sure your Google translate works well; if you don't have service prepare some key phrases in advance good luck.

Hello

I might be lost in translation, but usually motorbikes are built for two persons, so taking a cooker and desent tent will not crack the frame.

If you can't lift the bike because of the cooker and tent, take it off and lift the bike.
Piece of advice, don't drop the bike to often.

But in the end, everybody has to find their own way of traveling.

sushi

Agree it's likely lost in translation; perhaps we have different adventure in mind?

Traveling alone along Silk road I had seen roads which haven't been paved since 1976 or I was told so by locals. And you know it's gonna be good when cars leave the road and run through the fields The shop which was welding my bike told me they had a german with honda 2 week prior replacing rear shock with one from Lada; I'd love to see that.

As for unloading bike it depends on how it's gone down and where; and things are different at 12-14000' altitude much harder when you are out of oxygen. And it's unrealistic to get something out of if bike is laying down on it. As for not dropping bike good advice LoL.. especially in mud, deep sand, loose rock, fech-fech or in the middle of river x-ings, just because a bridge got washed out.

Hello

Piece of advice, for difficulte rivercrossings, take of the baggague and walk it over.

I don't know what you understand of an adventure RTW with a motorbike?

As I said before:
"Small bikes and extreme light baggage are good in the sand and single tracks, but on a "normal RTW" you have to search for that.
All the known great routes are getting paved, 10 years ago there where a lot of construction sites on the Ruta 40, is there any gravel left?"

I did only a "normal RTW", nothing extreme but still an aventure to me:
http://www.youtube.com/user/MrXt660ztenere
Exept a day trip in the sand in Archers N.P., all with cooker and tent. (Videos 2011-2013)


sushi

Hey I was just doing research the other day on getting from Thailand to India (crossing Myanmar). The guys from the youtube channel "North and Left a Bit" used a guide service osugamyanmartravel.com. It was like $400 for 5 days as long as you go in a group and hotel is included. Seems like it could be cheaper and less hassle than air freight from India to Thailand (more fun too).

Pretty sure Myanmar borders are closed for travelers. That would be big news if something had changed on that regard, but I highly doubt it.
So as things currently stand: It's not happening.

Their trip was done in 2018.....a lot has changed since then! Myanmar borders are closed

My thoughts on the original enquiry, which was about lodging I believe.
Lodging is different throughout the world, I’m sure you know:
It’s possible to find lots of free camping in the US - we struggled to find hotels, down the east side, lately below $90.
We stayed in a brand new 4* hotel in Albania for £20, including dinner - the next night we paid more to stay on a Dutch owned campsite.
Etc etc etc…..

I think you will find your own rhythm and travelling style after a few months.
Personally I don’t breakdown and calculate finances because there’s too many variables.

My advice is too just go with the flow - peaks and troughs, whether that’s financial, mental or physical.
bier

In eastern US all land is private and if you camp on someone's property you may be booted out in the middle of the night by a bunch of slightly drunk well armed rednecks.. discretion advised. It is legit to camp free on National Forest land as long as you don't start fires and there are other opportunities parking lots, etc.. here's a couple good sources/locators

https://freecampsites.net/

https://youtube.com/@campingwithsteve