well said Dakota

Seconded
 

Seconded!

Jan - I saw the DVD in a local supermarket here in the UK last weekend so it should be with you in NL soon (I'm tight fisted so I'm waiting to see if the price drops in the new year from the price I saw, which was equivalent to 150 miles worth of fuel.

It could work Cami
 

Not sure that would be a stopper. If you look at how food porn programmes have developed over the years:

First there was Fanny Craddock.

Then any aspiring chef wanted a series (the career progress ran from open restaurant, next publish cook book then get TV series).

Now anyone who ever made beans on toast for their flat mates gets a cookery programme (Nigella? Hairy bikers?? The surfer types?!?).

If LWD was popular enough (I'm too lazy to waste my lunch hour looking for audience stats) they might be ready for stage 2, where the likes of HUBB posters could be equal to aspiring chefs?

I'm available for a series if anyone from a TV production company is reading. All I ask is that they arrange a nice shiny new bike, all the necessary kit, someone to organise paperwork, and a salary equal to what I earn now (not a great deal as it goes). Baldie Biker does Bulgaria anyone?

Charity is a highly questionable activity which many people disagree with. It should not be assumed that charity is a "good thing". There are powerful arguments which show that it does NOT help people. One unpleasant aspect is the practice of seeking money so that someone can go off on a jaunt of their choosing. Charity is a lottery, playing with people's lives. But there are many more unwelcome characteristics too numerous to go into.

I agree...charity of the organized type has its fans and its detractors.

Riding through some of these underdeveloped countries and spending our own $$s there by supporting the local restaurant, food store, tire shop, etc. is just as noteworthy of 'charity' as giving to to an organization that has the tax status of charity...

What I did appreciate Charley and Ewan doing is using their recognition to highlight:

1. The ups and downs of 'adventure motorcycling'
2. The friendliness/generousity of the locals to complete strangers.
3. The existence of tourism possibilities in some of these countries
4. The possibility that its worth making the effort to scratch the itch of travel/wanderlust...!!!! You'll only regret it if you don't try!

Yes, they may do things differently than we do...HELL we all do things differently than others...BUT the common thread that brings us together here is that we enjoy what they did in LWD....
Its a stunning trip and I'd like to do part of that next time around!!!

long way down
 

Thanks for the post .
It 's good to see constructive comments , bashing is funny for few minutes but after a while it start to look like we cannot appreciate people if they do something different that what we think is right.Its a great trip and you can do it solo on a Royal Enfield or with a team in Range Rover for me it is the same , some have more money and choose different style of adventure but at the end they do the trip enjoy the people and have fun.I could tell story about solo rider traveling arround the world abusing hospitalilty and even stealing other fellow traveller but this is another thread.

Good job for the previous post

I hope people agree with me when I say that this thread and others like it, are all about discussion. It matters little if we agree, it matters a lot that we discuss.

I hope I'm not alone in thinking that the debate is important, not the conclusion.

It's a bit like Ted Simon's "The interruptions are the journey"; here it's the dialogue which intrigues me, not an end result.

I have enjoyed the differing points of view.

Semantics
 

Hey Caminando - although only semantics, I do wonder whether when you mention charity you actually mean a financial donation? To me there is a big difference especially given your conclusion.

Cheers

A big difference between what and what?

Hey Eddie - your trip = nice trip!!!!!!!

Difference between
 

Giving money to charity or 'charitable acts'. For instance, in my view, going to read to a lonely blind person (for example) is charity as much (or more?) than giving a pound in the street to a chugger.

Your quote:

" It should not be assumed that charity is a "good thing". There are powerful arguments which show that it does NOT help people."

Would have me think you would be adverse to this example. So, I was just clearing up whether you thought of this as charity or you were merely talking about financial donations.

Thread done to death?
 

:offtopic::offtopic::offtopic::offtopic::offtopic: :offtopic::offtopic::offtopic::offtopic::offtopic: :offtopic:

Fair Reply
 

Oops I think thats a fair enough post!

Sorry for getting drawn in at the death and stretching it out:eek3:

Which example? Sorry, youre not clear in what you say.....

Have I missed something :(
What's LWR and LWD :confused1:

Something to do with the original thread; can't quite remember!

I heard that Ewans panniers were full of inflatable fake luggage and the only weight in them were the pre-signed photograhs of himself and Script of Starwars so he could keep quoting his old lines for the whole series..

Charlies bags were genuinely heavy so he could wheelie his bike in every episode.

:innocent:

I think dave Ede said it best!
 

dave ede Thread done to death?
:offtopic::offtopic::offtopic::offtopic::offtopic: :offtopic::offtopic::offtopic::offtopic::offtopic: :offtopic:AND I AGREE! c'mon GUYS lets bitch about someone else!

How can it be dead when people still contribute ?
[ AND READ ] .

Merry Christmas .

sad
 

After having read this enormously interesting thread I just couldn't leave without saying how sad I feel for juddadredd. It must be really difficult to be so angry all the time. He is lucky to have his parents waiting for him at home (check his site). Must be nice for him to be there around Christmas and not somewhere else.

Get the anger out of the system and live a little, please.

:rofl::mchappy::rofl::mchappy::rofl::mchappy:

Same could be said about many!

OOOO !!! Santa's brought me the DVD and book, see you all in a week.

Me Too, I've even got 2 copies of the book!

I have got the book and dvd..........Brought them myself why lie? :helpsmilie:

Where's my DVD ?
 

Nope, the ba****d didn't bring me one and I wrote him such a nice letter. I bet his camel ate it.
No I am not sad coming on here on christmas day, they don't celebrate christmas here so MERRY CHRISTMAS TO YOU ALL

Jingly bells jindle balls jinlebelsh jinblesh ginblybuls

cheers
Ian:thumbup1:

Dave, thats Sad Dude!
 

Wasnt you a good little Boy for Santa then?:rofl:

WHY buy it and make Mr Boorman even richer? I just downloaded it from the Internet

PIRACY RULES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:D

I got a copy of the book too. I also got a copy of "The road to Gobblers knob" by Geoff Hill. I'll read them both but I know which one I'm reading first ! Triumph Tiger on the Pan-American... ooh suits you sir.

the road to where????
 

Santa brought me LWD too.

I wish they would at least acknowledge those whose books, dvd's, etc, they used as reference. Not really an adventure if you're working to such a tight and rigid schedule. At least they make better entertainment than that bloke who does "Riding Eastern Europe" for the Travel Channel. Can't say you wouldn't love it as a job though.

The main thing that stood out for me while watching LWR was that if anything major had gone wrong, they had the money and means to have bailed out of it at any time, called in a helicopter and be airlifted to safety. Respect to those who have done it themselves, on their own bikes, with their own money, no back up crew and have pretty much no choice except carry on or turn back if it goes tits up.

Did make me laugh when the Snap-On gear arrived, with a tool chest "especially made for Charley Boorman". Watching him fit the pannier brackets at the BMW dealer, it was quite clear the guy didn't know one end of a spanner from his own arsehole.


A comment on Charley from The Times,

...is questioned by four policemen at Gatwick after telling an air stewardess that he has a bomb;".

12 of my mates were stripped searched at Newcastle Airport for one of them saying exactly the same thing. Now that would have made funny TV. :rofl:

It's the road to ;
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...er/gobbler.jpg
Dalton Highway .

Named after a famous event that happened ;
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...der/turkey.jpg

I also got "The Linger Longer" by Simon & Chris Raven, which is UK to Vladivostok by £300 Ford Sierra. Not bad, but the typos, spelling mistakes, bad grammar and general weirdness ("window screen" not "windscreen", anyone?) is driving my barmy, do people not use proof-readers anymore (checks to see his spelling and grammar is ok).

But that's nothing to do with E & C is it?

Excellent!
 

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Dodgy, you have sum STRANGE pics on your HD dude!

Fashion
 

Of course there is no such thing as individuality

Have you not heard of fashion:
In clothing designers design, fashion houses copy and everyone buys the product.

Holidays: A few Brits go to Spain for a holiday, 30 years later we have communities out there complete with Fish and Chip shops.

The list is endless, wake up and take a look around you sometime.

For what it's worth I enjoy watching it, the Long Way Down too.

Yes, I do ride, a CB 500, but when I go to Tunisia with my family I take a Discovery, been 3 times now but for me it is an adventure every time.
We'll camp at Ksar Ghilane, 1 ground tent, for the kids, one roof tent, me and the wife. We cook on a coleman duel fuel, sit in camping chairs and fetch our own water, pretty basic stuff.
Then, along comes this damn great 4x4 "lorry" (truck), fully kitted out, shower, double bed, hot water, cold water, toilet, etc etc.
So, who's having the adventure, who is doing it the correct way?

We meet convoy's of 3 or 4 vehicles, they're armed with GPS and they're off to El Borma via the dunes. They've not done the route before, there are 4 vehicles and they're pretty well self-sufficient, no TV quality cameras though. Are they any different, is the adventure not there? Ewan and Charlie have support but then so does a convoy of four independant travellers.

Is it not the case that most of the first explorers recorded their expeditions using the equipment of the day, has it stopped others doing the same trip with more modern equipment.

It's just what we do, we are all different, but then are we?

The difference is how you present the trip. If you present it as group effort then there is nothing wrong. If you present it as "Two guys, two motorbikes", then there is difference.

This thread started 8 weeks ago and at that time I’d read some of the new book Long Way Down. I’d read the Long Way Round and watched it on our copy of the DVD series when it was released a while back. On 31st October I said, Well I’ve been reading the comments here and now watched the Long Way Down series on DVD (Christmas pressie). I stand by my earlier comments. The series made my wife and I want to jump back on the bike and ride off again (we just completed 5 months around western Europe). Best we can probably do though is to plan 3 or 4 months around USA and Canada in 2009. Now maybe our sort of bike travel isn’t as adventurous as undertaken by many on the HUBB (westernised versus undeveloped/developing countries), but isn’t it the sprit of the thing?

There is a strong sense from some on here that they seem to need to defend their thing as something more adventurous and “out there” than what “other” people do. I understand this but don’t really think its necessary. I used to jump out of aeroplanes (over a 1,000 jumps, an instructor, and competed at National level in the sport). If ever I was “defending” my chosen pastime against comments by whuffos (non-jumpers), it was usually done a bit tongue-in-cheek. However there was never a need to put down those already engaged in the sport. The common bond was strong.

It reminds me of the meeting Ewan and Charlie had (on the first trip) with Ted Simon (author of Jupiter’s Travels), where Ted said: This is the common bond. Ahto, there is a lot more footage of the rest of the Long Way Down crew in this second series and I see no trying to hide the fact that they have a lot of support. In fact at the beginning of every segment, they repeat the details of the back up resources. I think though the unsung hero is Claudio. He’s there for it all, filming the lot, and with little exposure.
You’ve struck a chord Kevin - its called “airheadism”. If you haven’t already, read Shelly Gare’s book, “The Triumph of the Airheads (and the Retreat from Commonsense.)” It covers it beautifully – I recommend it.
Cheers

Hear, hear!

John, I think you said everything that I was trying to, in an educated way.

Cheers,
Kevin

No individuality? Come to any Horizons meet and you'll see individuality! By the shedload!

But you were talking about the average person, the followers.

Surely, "Hubbers" are individuals they are the leaders, but you appeared to be talking about the masses, the people that aspire to do, but maybe they never actually make it.

Everyone to their own, we're all individuals, some are better at showing it than others.

Live your own life Caminando, and let others live their's.

Love,
K

so the thing is about LWD....

um I forgot what I was going to say.

m

(the website was very very good though)

Sorry K, I think you're a little bit confused here. But please dont explain! Happy New Year! (tho' you may have started early!)

So where would something like this fit in?

http://www.cannonballbikerun.com/

A "real" adventure or a jaunt for the boys?

I dont think anyone here genuinely dislikes Ewan or Charlie, nor do they have sleepless nights in pain or agony over what they are doing. I know I dont anyway.

I think we all like poking fun at them just like anyone with a bit of "real" overlanding experience likes to have a little laugh at the noobies or the Sunday GSers. They clearly love riding and overlanding its not important how "real" they keep it.

As for my comments, Its all meant tongue in cheek and in good humour. I´ve been on the recieving end of jokes and tutting when I started out (and still am). Its all part of the game.

There are no rules !! I dont understand the Elitism of some people.

If they showed up at a Horizons Unlimited meeting , would any of you guys shrug them off or not give them a warm welcome ?? (thats if you could see them past the UKGSers getting their DVD´s signed) :tongue3:

Don't poke fun! I was in that cue and I don't even own a GS! (okay I once rode one and promptly fell off)

Charlie is a genuine guy when you meet him, I don't know him at all and only get that from the very brief 'hello' when I asked him to sign the Dakar book at last years bike show.

It's sometimes really hard to weigh all these things up... Long Way Round ignited a bit of a travel bug in me, which lead me to Ted Simon and then I discovered Mondo Enduro - yes it's easy to be snobby about those people who have 'done it for real' - but it essentially boils down to what we think this lark is all about - something we explored in depth in the What is Adventure Biking? thread.

For me it's the Harry Potter argument. HP is considered in the lit' world to be rather beneath 'real' lit' works - but the fact is is appealed to a very large, broad audience and it got kids reading. I see LWD and LWR in the same light.

Actually, that a very good comparison and it makes a lot of sense !!

:thumbup1:

there are pros n cons.....
 

We all have had great fun ripping them apart, me included, and I will admit to being glued to the programmes........ The thing IMHO that "grated" with most of us was the " 2 Blokes, 2 Bikes" Bullshit!
sure they needed some backup if they were gonna do a film of it, that is a reasonable and allowable necessity.

The people I feel sorry for are the guys that have bought BMWs on the Back of that programme and found out that they ARE just as hard to handle off road as Ewan and Charley made em look! Big heavy Elephantine things that they are....... I Love my XT I do!


Martyn

Sorry, Craig, this site only sells stuff. Doesnt tell you about the event, as far as I could tell.

Well... there is a first time for everything.... me making sense for example!

I have had to adjust my feeling towards E+C, due to receiving the book and DVD for Christmas:helpsmilie: I started to watch the first part of the journey (disc 1) yesterday, with a glass of whisky, and fell asleep nicely:thumbup1: So it ticks most of the boxes for me :rofl:.
I do feel for Claudio (sp?) who has been pushed further into the background this time, although he was doing the same (but more) as E+C:nono:


Trophymick

None of us who use this site travel unsupported, as we get answers to most bike-travel related questions from the hundreds who take the time to share their knowledge and experience.


Just a thought.

I enjoyed it heaps
 

I really don't understand why people have a problem with this show (apart from being on the wrong colour bikes i.e. not orange). I enjoyed and when they set I could feel the excitment build.

So what if they had a support crew etc etc as others have said they were making a TV show.

As for being sheep in terms of the product placements, those Arai helmets look okay, it is a PIA riding in traffic with googles no peripheral vision.

could be?
 

Perhaps they are still stuck in the Fesh-fesh?

Okay…
I’m not an expert on the African continent but I have visited it a few times and I have driven approximately 70kkm in 20-25 countries. There is still a lot left to experience and my next trip will hopefully start within a month.

First of all I haven’t seen LWD but I guess the same goes for a few people that have replied here… I will probably watch it, as I did with LWR.
I look forward to see it; as I always look forward to see movies from Africa.

I don’t care if they travel fast or with a crew or about the (loss of?) humor, but I do care a bit about what it tells about Africa and the people who lives there. After all it’s a kind of semi-documentary film.
The fact that they have huge sponsorships and other motives then other overlanders doesn’t bother me. Neither does it bother me that it gives a false impression of what it’s all about.
After all it is a movie, it’s made to sell as many copies as possible and it’s not meant to be the “thruth of overlanding”

What I care most about is how they threat the locals. I guess most of the locals find this circus amusing enough but when you travel you are also more or less an ambassador for the first world and I’m not sure if this guys are up top the task.
I think this subject should be discussed more on the HUB. Subjects like gifts, bribing and so on.

Well, maybe I should see the film….

Probably the riders that have done serious African trips have not 'risen to the bait'

3 familiar names back in close proximity! :rofl::clap:

roflmao
 

Like yer new bike Cammy!

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/e...IKE/biker1.jpg


:thumbup1:

It just doesn't smell right.
YouTube - Ewan - Davidoff Adventure

No idea what it smells like, but it is funny!!
 

Now that is funny and a well made programme!
Spot the Bonnie.

The things we love to hate
 

Another Christmas over and the DVD watched. What can I say I know have mixed feelings of it all. Yes it did make me want to get back on the bike and travel but it also pissed me off. The bit with the fire is just silly and Claudio is the true star as he has to lead the way to get filming oppurtunities. There was not so much adventure as LWR and its all got a little too proffesional for my liking maybe the Mondo Boys and Louise can do us proud and do another great trip that appeals to us all. I can see what everyone was getting at now as the book tells the story in a different way. Now i must go and set the sky box to record the Dakar. I love January Happy New Year Everyone.

Finally catching it here in US
 

After checking in on this thread forever and wondering what I was missing, I've finally found Long Way Round. Have TIVO'd it on Direct TV and seen the first episode. Will get channel info if anyone in US is interested (or maybe it's been here for a while and I'm late...)

what are you recording instead ?
 

So now its been Cancelled,:( what are you recording instead?:confused1:

Martyn

london to cape town
 

I agree its a bit plasticeeeee with all the back up but it do some good in my case as the wife got some understanding of what i am planning for and to a extent what i will experience, and is actually helping me with the project instead of thinking that i am crazy, and did not understand why i am putting in so much effort in the bike and planning.

Just watched it.
 

As a very late comer to the topic, and a serial thread killer, I should probably not contribute, but I am oh so bad at making the right choices.

I didn't enjoy it, not out of any deap seated jealousy (honest) or moral misgivings, just because it is very badly made.

The camerawork was generally horrible, the voiceovers grating, the focal points badly chosen, and the 'talent' incredibly annoying. Ewan was likable enough to justify his 'celebrity,' but HOW innane and whingey is his spoilt child of a boyfriend!? Immature and simple, and the 'energetic and mischevous rogue' persona he tries so hard to project just ends up as retarded child for me.

The two 'suits' travelling in the support cars were by far the biggest flaw of the experience though. Their attitude turned it from the purported adventure of a lifetime into an over structured expedition. One of their comments at the end was something along the lines of.

'I'm glad it's over, but I'm also a little bit sad,'

This says everything about their motivation, it was just a job for them. If I was E or C, I would never have employed that sort of man for such a trip. Conversely, Claudio seemed to have a great attitude, very easy going and adventure spirited - but got much less screentime than he did in LWR?

It is a format of television that depends heavily on the personalities of those involved, which is why Michael Palin has done so well in this arena. I just can't empathise with any of the characters (which is essentially what they are, as several people have stated - this may as well be a soap opera.) To an extent, Ewan can carry the others with his charisma and superior celeb status, but this is not enough. Who would want to carry Char;ie very far, or either of the overstuffed suits for that matter.:rolleyes2:

At the end of the day it was successful, so what do I know?

We all know that a lot of that success comes from Tarquins with limited edition LWD Snap On Toolboxes parked beside their Landrover though.:mchappy:

Happy Riding.

Joel

I know someone called Tarquin, and he has neither a Snap-On toolbox nor a Landie...

But yes, I'd agree, the "producers" got a lot more air-time and I didn't really feel the need to see them. Perhaps they could have done a companion programme, like that Comedy & Soap on ITV at the moment with Ben Miller and Jason Donovan, that way you could have watched one or other or both.

"And you can take dat to da Bank!!!"
 

Don't you just know that Ewan and Charlie read this website "Tongue in Cheek" and roar with laughter (all the way to the Bank). I can picture the two of them sitting at a bar, one slapping his knee in glee as he recaps this thread while the other (attempting to swallow his beer), blows it out on the bar. They still have other scenario possibilities (The Pole to Pole way around, The 45 degree angle way around, etc.). Ewan, Charlie, let me know what you guys have "up your sleaves" next. I'm packed and ready. Smitty

Let's hope so
 

If you can achieve that trick in this case Joel, you will do us all a favour IMO.

Thanks in anticipation,

NO! Behave.......
 

Walkabout, with 264 Posts and Currently 8770 Views, Caminando has Inadvertently created one of the most Popular threads on the Forum!

I say 3 cheers for Cammy! :thumbup1:

Martyn

WE LOVE CAMMY !!

:eek3::eek3::eek3:

Does he love us, Martyn??


:icon16::icon16::icon16:

The BLONDE way DOWN...
 

Its not that we set out to prove Ewan and Charley are girls with big knickers....

On the CONTRARY - this is an OPEN invitation to the luvvies (and their cute camera guy... Claudine or something?) to join us on the REAL way down to Cape Town from London.

We're two (soft, London) GIRLS on very, very old XTs, which we are preparing OURSELVES, so it shouldn't be tooo hard for them to keep up!

They won't EVEN need ANY of their very expensive (freebie) gear - which is a SHAME maybe, cos that LUSCIOUS red SNAP-ON toolbox is just sooo BIJOUX!

We're kitting OURSELVES out and just about EVERYTHING has been pre-owned or bought from ebay! (God bless ebay!)

(Not our very tiny, lacy black underwear ofcourse...they're STRAIGHT from Anne Summers! A girl HAS to be prepared in case you have an accident and the paramedics have to take your clothes off! Ewan knows ALL about the importance of looking good - that PIMPLE he sported during LWR was soooo EMBARASSING!!)

And ALSO - they DONT have to worry with all those trucks and Chelsea Tractors that are forever following them everywhere - cos we're managing to pack absolutely EVERYTHING WE NEED, including LIPSTICK and MOISTURISER (Body Butter- its gorgeous!), on our bikes!!

Nooo kidding!! We were JUST as surprised about that! Fancy that... we SERIOUSLY thought that we might have to hire a few extra crates like the two boyzzz did - but we managed JUST FINE!


Which is LUCKY - because that gives us loads of space for THEIR fluffy bums, to fit on our PILLION SEATS.

(For when their fancy new machinces break down (or they CRASH into each other) and the RAC can't scramble a private jet with a mechanic to fix it for them. Sigh! Celebrity Platinum Diamond membership can be soooo unreliable sometimes).

As a SPECIAL bonus - because we're ALREADY paying for the whole trip by ourselves (working 9-5 in an office), we will buy them food etc. on the way.
God knows, they obviously need as much help as they can get, what with never having to pay for anything themselves. Poor things, its the LEAST we can do and it will only take a few extra weekends of working overtime.

We'd EVEN allow Charley to pop a few of his daft wheelies - he's sooo silly! We learnt how to do that when we were 16 - so its a bit old by now - but its COMPLETELY understandable that he's got to get rid SOME of that frustration that comes with being in someone's SHADOW all the time. And what with him not finishing the Dakar... Bless him!

We'd HAVE to prepare them a little bit for the trip though. None of that HARD-CORE, MOVIE STUNT MAN anti-terrorism NINJA TURTLE warfare stuff that they got last time! (HONESTLY! We've both LIVED in Africa and NEVER even got in a fistfight! They are soooooo OVER REACTING!)

Nope - They would have to learn, to face Africa's harsh and breathtaking beauty, with only THEMSELVES to rely on!!!!!

And the ABJECT horror of actually INTERACTING on a NON-CELEBRITY level with LOCAL, ORDINARY, AFRICAN people??!

That will scare the LIVING BEJEEZUS out of them...


Oh - heck! ONLY KIDDING boyyyyzzz!

Don't get scared!

WE will be there to help you out if you get stuck!

We're just ORDINARY girls, with NOT a lot of money - but we're PRETTY SURE you will have LOTS of fun with us!

HOWBOUDIT?


__________________________________________________ ________
Disclaimer: The above was written in response to everyone else's heated response to the LWR/LWD franchise - which in itself is VASTLY more entertaining than the actual book/dvd. (Not had time or inclination to watch/read all of it).

Its meant to be a p**ss take and does NOT constitute my opinion on the project: Different strokes, for different oakes, as the South Africans say.

In fact - I'm far more interested in watching JOHNY DEPP ... have you seen SWEENY TODD?!

LMAO see now that's how it should be done, which is pretty much whatI've said from day one.

Now here come the armchair mob with oh Ewan and Charlie are the bikers friends.

They inspired me (not an armchair biker). Can't you just enjoy it for what it is? A piece of entertainment? The Harry Potter of the biking world? Not strictly the hardcore pure version of it's art, but inspiring and gets more people into this silly thing we call adventure biking.

Or of course, we could all just be snobs and point at others saying 'poo! they just don't do it properly!'

Grr I wasn't going to reply.

m

Here's the thing...
 

I'm wondering....

Dont you think that seeing celebs doing the adventure thing - actually makes it LESS accessible to joe public?

We're all bikers, so we can see it what for what it is... but a LAYMAN would see the whole thing and may think:

1. You need LLLOOOOAAADS of money to do adventure travel

2. You need a HUGE entourage to SUPPORT you and KEEP YOU SAFE

3. You need to be FIT to do it, and have had SAS training etc. etc. etc. not the mention the expensive equipment etc. etc. etc.


And they did'nt really go out of their way to make it look EASY or POSSIBLE for ordinary folk to achieve??


ALL in all - celebrities doing something, usually has the effect of making it COMPLETELY INACCESSIBLE to mortal men... because joe public knows that they have a multimillion organisation behind them...

ESPECIALLY since it now creates the impression that you wont make it unless you are on a VERY EXPENSIVE new BMW etc. etc.

I had that feeling when I saw that British girl with her big B&Q boat (can't remember her name.. now a Dame or something) circumnavigate the globe....First woman to do it solo or something...

My very FIRST thought was: okay for SOME -- middle class upbringing, sponsored to the hilt... obviously sailing is only for the UBER RICH....


ARGH!!! I've just BORED myself to sleep..... :sleep1::sleep1::sleep1::sleep1::sleep1::sleep1::s leep1:

They won't come
 

But can I come and sit on your pillion instead?

The first serious point in this so very long thread.

I think that what they've done is slowly take AB nearer the main -stream, and that they've turned it into a bit of a show and circus, and those people who like this kind of life because it's a bit like dropping out don't like the fact it's no longer exclusive - and they behave in the same way that any select few do - they become snobbish, and they call people who like E&C armchair riders and such.

Have to tell you guys, Long Way Round is what inspired me to get off my bum in front of the telly and ride to Russia - I didn't think you needed a back up crew, but I did assume it was probably very expensive.

But then, being an intelligent chap (like most of the audience), I read a little, joined a few forums and discovered that... no.. it didn't have to cost the earth and you can pretty much do it on any bike that came along.

Would I even know who Ted Simon was if it wasn't for E&C - nope - would I be doing this without that initial inspiration I got from them... who knows perhaps something else would have sparked my interest.

I hate this thread. I hate it because it has brought out the very worst in all of us, it's brought out the snobby behaviour and un-friendly jibes that demonstrate that we're not friendly and welcoming, but actually a bit elitist... and I can't stand elitism in any form.

Yes, of course, but only in very small circles.

Oh and I know a bloke who won Big Brother.

I love this thread. The only problem is that so much of it is in English.
I need a Canadian to translate it to american english.

..............................................

:eek3:

oooo fighting talk..... Ban looming! lol
 

[quote=impasto;171770



Charley and Ewan being Brits,[/quote]

Ewan MacGregor is SCOTTISH!!

he would Choke on his Haggis if he read that Mardi..:rofl:

Martyn

ah yes BUT......
 

you try telling that to a Scot! they are a touchy race.... I should know my mate is one and he can be a real pedant about it.

[quote impasto] AND, if we reallly want to get technical, British actually originally referred to people of Celtic origin

Tell that to a Glasgow Rangers fan!:eek3:

Well the Celts displaced the ancient Brits who fled to Wales and the westerly bits ,then came the Romans who displaced the Celts to the mid westerly bits , then after they buggered off came the Angles ,Saxons and Jutes who were then pushed westerly by the Vikings .
William the Bastard came over from Normandy built a few castles and buggered up the language and laws .
In the meantime the Picts and Sots were swapping places and leapfrogging over a Roman wall somewhere up north , molesting sheep and trying on skirts .
Then a few hundred years later when England had run out of suitable king material ,they imported one from the above bunch of leap froggers and everyone though it jolly clever to call it Britain again .
Various forays into Ireland to try to beat them into submission rape their cattle and steal their women ,and another imported king or two , plus a brief period without one ,and it was time to call it Great Britain .

So how about that for a race of misfits ?
And I are one .

Canadians officially now use British spelling , although I can translate if requested -eh .


PS
Dong way down is not on Canuck TV yet , I bet you can tell ,can't you ?

Beautifully put :clap: I'm Welsh, but British, from the United Kingdom originally of Celtic decent but with a bit of Saxon mixed in (for fun).

Charlie Boorman claims to be Irish (or at least, he has done on Irish tv).. For all I know, he probably claims to be British when it suits him too :)

ive heard.
 

Heard he even claims to be an Adventure Biker too.......:rofl: when it suits, and the moneys rolling in!!

This'll swing it... I was once on Radio 4 and OMG, it's still there on the Listen Again page.

Charly and Ewans money making 'Adventure'
 

Charlie and Ewan are like Marmite! You either love 'em or hate 'em.

Their expeditions are a pure money making scam just as Z factor/Pap Idol etc etc are. They are watered down and dumned down for the brain dead who will NEVER leave their comfortable life to do any exploring. Entertainment is what it is called. They are HUGELY successful (businesses) when compared with previous motorcycle films/publications and have brought an ersatz 2 wheel lifestyle to the masses.

Its totally contrived superficiality. Nothing wrong with that in the current climate!!! Nothing at all!!!!

Neither of them are any good at riding motorcycles. That hasn't stopped the faux celeb of Charlie Boorman becoming a reviewer in the national motorcycle press in the UK. I suppose that would annoy a few people. It's a bit like one of the talentless nobodys that your gran pays £1.50/min to vote for on the Z factor telling John/Paul/George and Ringo how to write pop songs. The fact is that Charly has become a de facto 'Expert' on all things 2 wheeled through being a celeb and a mate of Ewan. That's showbusiness....

The 1150/1200 have become best sellers to the cash rich who need another lifestyle accessory ala 4x4s. A mate has had 2 GSs and after 2 years finally decided he didn't like Charly/Ewan afterall and then thought he'd bought the wrong bike. Neither bike ever went of the pavement. Doh! That's advertising.........BMW 1 punters 0.

They didn't need even a third of the people (26 and not counting every local fixer they used) working for them on their 'adventure holiday'. You don't need 2 4x4s and 5 cameramen/security guard/medic////. Most TV production is single camera, presenter, producer,fixer/researcher and that's it. Bigger travel doco's might have a team of 8 people but most multi task. But you can pay for your 26 people and 4x4s when you are getting obscene amounts of money (£300k/hour) from the tax payer so why not? Most viewers won't question this........

I thought that the Long Way idea had had its day after Race to Dakar. You know the one where Charly didn't last more than 5 days but tells everyone he meets that he did the Dakar. I think that was Simon that did it Charly not you. You were a spectator. But the public keep lapping it up.......

Overall the camerawork was better (a bit of HD) and the production values higher than LWA but it was SOOOOOOO formulaic and laboured. Here's Charley and Ewan at this ruin, C+E at this one/C+E at this 5 star hotel then this one etc.
What really really annoyed me and my missus was 'expert' Charly regurgitating every little fact that a fixer/local or guide had told him minutes earlier to camera as if he had 'the knowledge'. Time and time again he would big himself up and make out he was well researched and read. He was using the LWD as his showreel to get a presenting job coz he can't act. He'll fool someother publications/production company or travel programme and we'll have his bad teeth and adolescent antics plastered across or pages or screens for the next 2 years until he's been found out. But then that's the 'MAGIC???' of televsion ain't it......

They are celebs Charly and Ewan. Nothing more. Don't be fooled that because they have thrown their legs over a tax payer sponsored GS that they'll be inviting you round to the Ivy for lunch coz they're bikers just like you. As for presenting a 'positive' image. I don't think pulling wheelies, lighting farts, whining like a girl and crashing into your fellow riders is presenting a positive image. Far from it. But some people believe it........

As for the 'charidy' work. Show me the benefits of any celeb carrying on about aid to Africa. It's the zeitgeist ....renta celeb. Every charidy does it........

Take it for what it is. A couple of luvvies playing at being real adventurers in a nice safe cottton wool wrapped enviroment with plenty of backup and money to get them out of trouble. Switch your brain off and you'll enjoy it more then.


That's why I'm suprised the thread is still active. The programmes were never aimed at those that do or those in the know. They were aimed at bored cash rich mid life crisis types who have a large disposable income but not too many brain cells. Not the kind of people the HUBB attracts. I thought you all would have chuckled at their fake plastic adventure and gone about your business. Seems they hit a raw nerve..........


All the best, S

Nice post S, you got it in one!

The thread survives because it "properly" belongs in the new "bar" that has opened up recently - in other words, it is still winter in the UK and beyond, so some folk, including me, have a bit of time to spare, some days anyway; actually I am waiting for England to give some to the Welsh in the Rugby later today, but that is :offtopic:.
(Ireland 10 - Italy 0, right now).

Great post skysurfer, hit every nail there I think. I believe your predections are going to come around one day sometime soon, that buck toothed ham is going to inflict a lot more pain on us yet!

Same to you Walkabout, your prediction is also correct, we are going to Bash some Taffs! Woopwoop.:offtopic:

I may have had a beer or two.

Happy Riding

Joel

As I said earlier in this thread... they're the Harry Potter of the biking world... to purists HP is a load of tosh... to the general public some enjoyable reading... both have something to offer to general viewers.

Skysurferboy... you seem to know an awful lot about TV production and how much the BBC paid for just the TV rights for LWD..... perhaps you could explain where you've got your information from? I'd be very interested in hearing.

m

:offtopic:

Well Joel... how do you feel about the predictions now... still want to bash some taffs?

England 19 : Wales 26

:clap::clap::clap::clap: :rofl:

The game was there to be lost!

High time this thread went to the bar BTW.

agreed......

I'm on a long work trip abroad and have too much time on my hands which is when I get involved with threads like this. They're great! Fantastic.

Managed to get through a whole load of books on this trip including Long Way Down and Ted Simon's Dreaming of Jupiter. Both are well worth the read if you like bikes and travel - I like the way Ted tells his stories - his slideshows are always good value at the HU meeting.

My feeling about Ewan and Charley is that they don't deserve the grief they seem to attract here and almost every other biking forum. There are elements that may not appeal to everyone but as far as I see it they have put together a bike travel programme that is on the TV and without them we would have nothing. My hat comes off to everyone who has done this whether it is Austin and the guys in Mondo Enduro and Terra Circa or Kevin and Julia Sanders on their Globebusters trip. All very different trips.

The point is that these guys have done the mileage on their bikes from A to B. The whole support crew issue is irrelevant - they are only in place for logistical reasons and cannot make the riding any easier or less enjoyable. If Ewan and Charlie were hopping into the support truck whenever there was too much mud or the road got a bit tough then that would be one thing. They never did, they rode the distance and fair play to anyone who has done that. (Anyone remember Ffyona Campbell?)

Sure when things go wrong - be it mechanically, an accident or on the paperwork front - then this is where the support crew becomes useful. In reality though it only speeds up any delay that any solo rider would face waiting for a spare part to be shipped over or tracking down a local mechanic or spending a few days waiting on an embassy. However that is not what the trip is about. It's about the riding and each to their own on that.

I have never done a RTW like they have. I would very much like to. My first bike trip (first time on a bike infact) was on an Enfield Bullet coming back from India to the UK. It was a very different trip but I can't ever think to slag them off because they did a trip very differently to mine. I've never done a London-Cape Town let alone a John O'Groats-Cape Town trip but I certainly would like to. It'll be different for sure and better for me - simply because it's my decision how it will be organised. I'll stop here before it becomes a rant - I've made my point.

Basically they have hit upon a good formula. They can do something they like doing for a few months which is good publicity for them and a whole number of charities. Makes a stack of cash and have a pretty good adventure.

I stand up and salute all fellow bike travellers past, present and future. Hope we get to see more films as a result on the TV. Sure as heck beats most of the crap we are supplied with.

Matt

long threads are great/Charley n Ewbie
 

long threads are great. I joined in coz I'm stuck at home nursing a crushed foot after a biking accident so have plenty of time to keep myself amused on the HUBB.

As you say Matt Charley n Ewbie have hit upon a good fomula which they are exploiting to the max with TV coverage and merchandising. Good luck to them it certainly is better than an episode of sodding Bargain Hunt or Homes under the friggin Hammer but lets not fool ourselves that it is real adventuring.

Nobody but the inner circle on each of those rides (LWA/LWD/Dakar) will know exactly what went on. They could have trailered the bikes all the way and rode a few hundred yards for the camera or had several replacement bikes flown out after problems. They might also have ridden every last inch or had someone ride the tough bits for them or had nowt in the panniers or stunt doubles or been abducted by aliens.......That's the magic of telly! How totally genuine and truthful the depiction of events was you'll never ever know and in the industry such deceptions are called 'acceptable artifice' and are widely used and justified.

On a trip like that the riding is by far the EASIEST bit! It's the bit we all love and the reason we do it. Trips are not about 'the riding' though are they? If that were the case then why not ride up and down the M1 motorway all day for 2-3 weeks? I like being on my bike as clearly Charley n Ewbie do but commutting to work is not the same as blasting the dunes in the Sahara or negotiating a mountain pass. Our biking travels are about so much more than just riding. The fact is with 'adventure' travelling of all kinds the word adventure implies some element of danger or hazard. When those elements are removed by having scores of people moving mountains to make your journey easier the 'adventure' has therefore been diluted. The famous saying "what doesn't kill us makes us stronger" applies to all of the hassles(read learning experiences) you get on a trip.

Dealing with customs, officials, planning,map reading, navigating, prep'ing bikes, finding fuel and food and shelter are ALL part of the experience and just as important as 'the riding'. As are the riding in dirty gear, not bathing, camping out , the places you visit, the route decided upon and the people you meet along the way etc. Doing such a trip 'in a bubble' as C+E seems to have done is to miss all of that. Anyone who delegates the responsibilty of the above tasks is losing out on those elements and it's only my opinion but I feel they are poorer for it. As the beatles said " money can't buy you love" it can buy the illusion of love and many other illusions too, such as the illusion you are a bona fide adventurer.

I guess the reason some people on the HUBB get so absolutely furious with these 2 is that they are so passionate about what they think is a misrepresentation of adventure travelling and motorcycle culture. I did too once, now I roll my eyes instead.

As someone earlier in the thread has pointed out I think Claudio was the unsung hero of both the LWA and LWD. Unlike the other 2 he rode the same distance, the same roads but all the while he was WORKING hard filming and directing Chaz n Ewbie. He had to put up with broken bikes and crashes aswell as being crashed into by the itinerant Mr Boorman. As always afterwards he was softly spoken and stoical. The guys behind the camera are the real heroes............

Can't wait for the next 'adventure'

Pie, anyone?
 

How embarassing to set yourself up for a fall like that, on a public forum too! And then to come crashing down. Ha, ha! Even makes me cringe!

Round 1 is over
 

Not at all Ken, the game was won by half time and lost in the second half; that's Rugby for you - it beats football hands down.
My view yesterday was based on my thoughts on form; this turned out to be wrong, but I didn't have money on it so, no worries.

Now that we have seen all of the teams, I reckon France are the likely champs for this season - we will see how they get on next weekend against, let me see now, oh yes, Ireland.


:offtopic: Now this thread must be destined to be in the bar.

Hi Sky Surfer,

Hope that foot is on the mend and you are back on the road again soon. Until then the thread continues. Some of what you say I agree with and some I have to disagree with - I guess that's the great thing about this. Everyone has an opinion about how they would do it but I just feel they have received a lot more grief than they merit.

It is true we don't know all the details but I would rather give them the benefit of the doubt. For all the stuff that they didn't do which was pretty routine and dull (visas, border fixing etc), I honestly believe that they did ride from UK to South Africa - surely the LWD is not such a conspiracy. Crikey! Perhaps it really wasn't even C+E! We've been duped!

I disagree when you say the riding is the easy bit - those are infamously bad roads in Sudan/Ethiopia/northern Kenya. It is not the M1. The represent a challenge that once complete is very satisfying but at the time when the bike breaks, you come off in the sand or get taken out by a crazy driver, it is an experience that unites us all. We see the same scenery and are exposed to the whatever Africa just throws up. However, I do agree that this is the fun bit even if at the time it doesn't seem that way!

The preparations, visa hunting, unscheduled delays, bike problems, illnesses etc are all part of the trip - but more peripheral aspects than the main focus. For the "average" trans Africa biker this is something that you have to go through and suffer. It's part of the experience but it's not why you do the trip. The focus is the ride itself, the locations you end up in and the chance meetings you make along the way.

I wonder whether cyclists would argue that us bikers are less adventurous than they are? It's the same trip involving where we go but the method is different. I'm not sure if this is the point that the E+C haters are making - because they had so much help it doesn't count.

LWR and LWD are not my "ultimate bike trips" but it is a start that might lead to more coverage for this type of show.

Claudio was indeed a star - you have to respect his determination on those roads when the riding was obviously difficult. In the book there is recognition by C+E that the support crew made the trip possible but during the show they didn't always come across as being totally appreciated.....

Cheers!

Matt

PS I am not Charlie's mum

she was proved to have 'misled' though....
 

If I remember rightly, Ffyona Campbell claimed to have walked ALL the way when in fact she did not and took rides in a pick up/ car etc...... I'm not making small of her achievement, she did after all walk a hell of a long way, but she did also LIE, people could have forgiven her if she just said "look guys, i'm knackered and cant face this bit of the journey,so I'm gonna ride this one out" she did not.
Yes Charlie n Ewan may have 'ridden the distance' as you say. but 5* Hotels? Huge backup crews? 3 guys picking their Bikes up whenever they drop em? :rolleyes2:, Thats hardly Hardy Traveller routine is it?

The LWD & LWR Programme Makers make people think that to RTW you have to have a BMW1200GS with all the kit etc etc etc.. you don't NEED all that crap to Adventure your way round this Planet! BMW on the other hand are laughin all the way to the Bank!

Martyn

Chaz n Ewbies amazing adventures
 

Hi Charleys Mum (er I mean Matt),

The foot is healing nicely thanks but I'm going for some more X rays today as the pain on the top of my foot is still not gone and it's 3 weeks since the accident.

I agree with what you say. The riding can be hard and be the reason for most peoples trips. However I like a lot of things about my short trips not just the riding. Sure the visas and customs/carnets are a pain in the ass but once you've done it a few times it gets a little easier. I remember being very green and naive at the Moroccan border on my first biking trip to Africa and getting ripped by the toothless little bastard that skanks unsuspecting travellers. But what should I have expected?? I felt a right tw@t driving off into Morocco but was better prepared on the way back. Chaz n Ewbie didn't have to bother with all that though and sent one of their minnions to do it therefore learning nothing.

I agree with Martynbiker too that now everyone at home watchin the telly believes that to do any sort of trip you need a 1200GS and a support team of 4x4s. Hell a couple of mates I know went to the Nurburgring on their bikes with their wives driving the now obligatory 4x4 'support vehicle' behind them. One of the guys laughed at me when I said that people do the LWA trips on their own without a team sorting out visas and support trucks. I even sent him links to the HUBB and AMH, Dave Beers website. He said it was all bullsh1t and that it couldn't be done. These are sensible intelligent people who have watched a few LWA episodes. For as many people who decide to buy a bike and go off to Africa on their own I think a similar number will be put off thinking that it's an impossible task.

I saw a music programme on the telly (former musician myself) last week. One of the talkin heads (now famous muso) said that he'd seen Yes at a gig and thought "I can't do that. I'm not that good" he then went to see the Sex Pistols at the Free Trade Hall in Manchester and after the gig went and bought a guitar. His band ended up having the biggest selling 12inch record in history. I think C&E might just be having the wrong effect on some people........but that's just my opinion. ;-)

:offtopic:'Well Joel... how do you feel about the predictions now... still want to bash some taffs?
England 19 : Wales 26'

Ahem..er, the pitch was too wet, and the ref was against us, and the day of the week had a 'y' in it, and there was this one bird and it flew over the stadium at the wrong time, but it wasn't the one we were playing in, it was in Kobe, and it flapped its wings and there was a hurricane in Java so the scrum half had a sore calf and the temperature of the magic sponge was green.

Er..yeah, we won the first half though!:offtopic:



Good comparison Skysurfer, I like it. CanE are the new 'Yes.' Does that make Ted Simons Sid Vicious? Incidentally 'Cain' was the biblical progenitor of all evil who killed the only thing he really loved. Spooky? Or just an serendipitous abbreviation and an injured and overly bored biker? You decide! Incidentally, as a fellow cripple, I hope you get well soon.

'I remember being very green and naive at the Moroccan border on my first biking trip to Africa and getting ripped by the toothless little bastard that skanks unsuspecting travellers.'

As long as it wasn't just me who got skanked by a toothless bastard in Morocoo. Your point is very valid though, it is the incidentals that provide the anecdotes to bore people with for years to come, it isn't the stage managed and oh so heart felt encounters with locals. It isn't lighting your gas on TV like a retarded monkey, it isn't just another boring five star resort to stay in. If we all had minions, we wouldn't have had those experiences. Then again, we would all be multimillionaire lightsabre wavers. Swings and roundabouts!

Happy Riding

Joel

Why all the fuss!
 

Just got sent the series and watched it over a few weeks. Shit loads better than Eastenders and not as good as Lost. Makes it pretty much normal TV in my book - something to watch after work. Quite enjoyable, and if E & C have the cash to do it that way and in doing so make even more money then good luck to them...
G

That's exactly it. They're painting a picture of themselves that they're the real deal, when quite clearly (to us anyway) they're not. It's not that they're unlikeable, they're just fake. Whether it's bikes, cars or anything else that I actually care about, I just can't stand people who are fake. If you're going to talk the talk, you've got to walk the walk as well and do it off your own back, not with someone holding your hand.

And so what if people's attitudes towards them are elitist. IMHO, people who have done the same trips, without C&E huge resources have earned that right.

Jeremy Clarkson is another one whose mouth has made him, in the public's eyes anyway, the definitive expert on everything 4 wheeled. Those who actually know what they're talking can see through him straight away. I can give quite a few specific examples but I'll keep it on topic. The Canonball and Gumball Rallies are full of people just like E&C, posing and trying to make themselves look like pseudo-racing drivers. Really, they're just irritating wankers with far too much money/time on they're hands.

As for the BMW GS, Bike magazine voted it the "coolest" bike ever made, whatever thats supposed to mean. Their saving grace was that they only meant ones that were battered to hell, caked in mud and still had import tax stickers on it from wherever it's owner had taken it. Ones bought for "bopping around Kensington" as they put it were definitely "not cool". So, when was the last time you saw one that wasn't cleaner than clean?