Buying an Enfield and riding it back to London
 

Hi all,

I'm planning to go to New Delhi, buy an enfeild and ride it back to London.

But having read this website I seem to have hit a few technical snags.

1) Is it no longer possible to buy a motorbike in India and ride it across the border? (I have visas to Pakistan and Iran) Is the policy of not allowing bikes bought in India to be register in your own name still in place? Is there no way of getting around it?

2) Does this mean its near impossible to buy a bike in India and ride it back?

3) I don't have a Carnet. Is this a major problem?

4) I have a bigger problem - that I only have a provisional UK license and a CBT license, but not a full bike license. I can ride more powerful bikes but left it too late to get the full license.:frown:
Highly irresponsible of me, I know. But does that mean my trip is definitely a no-go?

5) Has anyone done this trip lately? Any tips?:scooter:

thanks!

S.

Ok, it seems I should buy my bike from Nepal, where I can get the Carnet, and then ride it back through India (I don't have that much time to spare, but what the hell).

Anyone know how much more expensive it is in Nepal and any contacts for buying an Enfield in Nepal?

thanks in advance!

MY TIP IS - DON'T BOTHER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Forgive me for saying so but how exactly do you propose to ride the bike back to Europe when you haven't even passed your full bike test! :nono:

Not only will you not have a driving licence but your insurance will be null void too. :oops2:

Best get legal before considering riding a large bike such a distance. You stand a good chance of being caught out when you pass into Europe because it's highly likely that the police will inspect your docs. Not withstanding the above, are you really such a DICK HEAD to risk having a serious accident like this and not be insured?

I can't speak for anyone else but I personally don't want idiots who haven't passed their full bike test riding on the same roads as ME and my family. :thumbdown:

Why not just do what the rest of us did - PASS YOUR FULL BIKE TEST!:smartass:

Once you are legal then you may go where you wish without risking other peoples lives. If you still wish to do it now then get a 125cc instead!:mchappy:

heh, I was expecting a response like that.

In my defence, I have been riding a 125 cc bike for ages and am quite good on it. In fact, I've ridden one around india too and am quite good on bikes.

Hence feeling quite comfortable on something bigger.

Are European authorities really likely to check my driving licence? I could say it was stolen? I have a provisional and a CBT....

Im pretty sure they will check your documents and is it not ban worthy riding something illegally ? and altho you have been riding a 125 and consider yourself good on it would it not be worthwhile doing a das course and getting your full license and some experience on a 500 or bigger there a completely different kettle of fish so to speak,

even if your not going to listen to us think about these 2 possibilities,

1. getting banned or your bike taken from you for not having a full license when coming into the country

2. the safety of others on the road when you realize the bike is a lot more powerful than you realized and runs away with you.

please dont be so daft as to ride without a license and also when you get back would you ride the bike without a license ? you need to get a full one i think

regards keiren

He did say he'd be on an Enfield. It couldn't run away from him unless he had both legs and an arm amputated and he dragged himself by his fingers. Even then, it'd be neck and neck.

I've heard, not tried, that crossing the border from India to Pakistan is not a problem. I met an Aussie with an Enfield who said he went into Pakistan yelling "Pakistan!" and was cheered on by police, not stopped. He didn't have his passport stamped going in or coming out. Or maybe it was just traveler's BS. Will it work for you? Who knows? But it's probably less risky than crossing Pakistan and Afganistan on your ride back to the UK.

Of course, I'm a yank and a learning bike (aka "girls bike") is a 600 that is usually traded for a "real" bike in a few months. I'm not like that, but I've heard that one about a zillion times.

Hi Londonman,

Contact Andy at 1A HIRE RENT, RENTAL OF ROYAL ENFIELD MOTORCYCLE MUMBAI DELHI KOLKATA, INDIA. EXPORT RESTORED ENFIELDS, LAMBRETTA & VESPA.

I spent 4 weeks on an Enfields last year, rode down the west coast and up the east and dealt with Andy who has become a personal friend.
I´ve been back to India with my wife to visit him a few months after the trip.

He will sell or rent you an Enfield, new or used to bring home to the UK. He knows everything there is to know about them.

He´s also the CEO of a software company, a very switched on guy - I would certainly recommend him 100%.

Mike

Try this link 1A HIRE RENT, RENTAL OF ROYAL ENFIELD MOTORCYCLE MUMBAI DELHI KOLKATA, INDIA. EXPORT RESTORED ENFIELDS, LAMBRETTA & VESPA. if you have a problem with the other one.

Words Fail me that some of you out there are telling this young man to go ahead and break the law. More importantly he's going to risk his own and other peoples lives en-route! I can only assume from this that those of you who think he should ignore the law like this have a criminal record / Poor Driving History themselves...:blushing:

The UK Police now have powers to sieze vehicles which are being used without insurance or licence. Not only will he lose his bike but he will also get at least 8 points on his licence and a huge fine of about £700. :(

Your documents WILL BE INSPECTED when you arrive in EACH European country as the bike will need importing or a carnet. Do you really think you can "pull the wool over their ears" by telling them you have forgotten your docs? Get real...:nono: Police forces throughout Europe are all linked closely these days. Your driving record AND Insurance Company Record can be checked in a few minutes using a PC link to DVLA.

I don't doubt you stand a chance of getting away with it until you reach Europe though...

Just go and pass your bike test like the rest of us or do it on a 125cc. I know someone who did that trip on a Honda C90! Others do it on 125 Trail Bikes which are fun little things...

Neil, have you ridden through India? He said he had and if he has, he's quite capable of riding anywhere in the world. He didn't say he was going to get a Hayabusa and sneak into GP.

Small bikes might be great to learn on, but the traffic in India might be the worst in the world and the school of hard knocks is just as well. I met an ex-Indian Army Major who said traffic was worse in Pakistan and Afghanistan. Both of which Londonman would have to ride through.

You said, "I can't speak for anyone else but I personally don't want idiots who haven't passed their full bike test riding on the same roads as ME and my family" which makes me wonder if you've done any riding outside of the UK. You can't even get a 125 roadbike in the US. Even finding a 250 is hard and the salesmen try to talk you out of them. I wasn't kidding when I said a 600cc bike is considered by 90% of American motorcyclists a girl's bike. Motorcyclists are quite full of useless machismo much of the time.

I thought a carnet wasn't needed for the EU. Do they stop you at each EU border crossing to check your paperwork? I don't know. I haven't been there yet.

If Londonman wants to make the attempt, why not? He knows the risk when he gets to EU. As the cliche goes, you only live once and no one gets out of here alive.

As for me, I love small bikes. If I wasn't on an old POS 250 and wanted something newer and more dependable, I'd follow Nigel Marx' advice and do it on a Japanese 185cc sheep bike with a reinforced frame. He nearly tempted me into selling my Ducati when I was at his house looking at the sheep bikes. The side stand on each side, and the clutch and cable locks, are strokes of genius. But there's no way I can buy one in California and I like riding with California plates. Besides, I want a girder Norton single as my next bike.

-Dave

I wouldn't normally agree with Neil, but this time he is right.... Its got absolutely nothing to do with riding ability, as I would agree that an Enfield is likely to be perfectly manageable given his experience. But the legal and insurance implications make no sense - every time you cross a border, and every time he gets stopped by the police, he will be running a significant risk of being arrested, or having the bike confiscated - or both.

And he will get stopped - every cop who has never seen a Nepali plate before is going to pull him at the slightest excuse, and I doubt that he will get as far as the EU before that happens. If he does, that first EU border post is going to take a real close look at a beaten up Nepali Enfield. They might well miss his licensing deficiency because they tend to focus on the bike papers, but its a big risk.

And if he gets involved in any sort of accident he will be in deep shit. The police will definitely spot the licence problem then !

Driving without a license, nullifies whatever insurance you have. This means if you have an accident (and in many foreign countries, if a westerner is involved, he is automatically to blame) you might have to pay 100.000£ or more, OR go to jail to sit that amount of money off!

Good luck with your project, have fun.

Why not a tuktuk ? Some danish guys drove one from Bangkok to Denmark 18.000km.
Tuktuk - fra Bangkok til Aarhus

Neil, I'm not condoning the idea of riding without a licence but this simply isn't true. Once in the EU, e.g. Greece nobody anywhere will ask for any bike documents even at Dover. At most other borders, the customs officials want to see a carnet and some form of insurance (which can be bought if you don't have it) but practically never a driving licence.

The idea that unusual plates are pulled over by police is also incorrect (Wheelspin). I've done thousands of kilometres on bikes with Arabic words & numbers on them over several years and NEVER been pulled over; not in the UK, the EU or anywhere else.

I attribute this to the fact that police generally like bike riders and like to cut us some slack. For that reason, I hope Londonman doesn't abuse the goodwill that's out there and gets his licence. :thumbup1:
Stephan
PS Neil, isn't it "eyes" not "ears" - unless it's cold? :)

Thanks for the very valuable advice everyone. I think I might do this trip next year instead because of the complications involved in the paperwork.

I dont doubt my own motorcycle riding abilities but the hassle of the border-checks might be too much.

I'm going India anyway though. I might rent an Enfield (thanks for the link) or a Japanese bike.

Anyone know if you can buy and then ship over powerful Japanese bikes (say about 500cc) from India? Most websites don't seem to advertise bikes above 125cc.

thanks

Bikes in India are small, mostly for fuel efficiency I think. Mostly 125 and 150s with the occasional 180. I was warned that riding a "large" bike, and they were indicating the 180, could lead to problems finding a mechanic if it broke down outside a big city.

I saw a large Yamaha in a dealership but I didn't ask how much it cost. I'm sure with the huge import tax (180%) it was plenty. There's a Ducati dealership in Mumbai, so you can always pick up a couple of those. Indian roads are perfect for high speed. That's why there's the Ferraris and McLaren in Delhi. Those cars are actually there. I have no idea if there's a road where it'd be safe to go over 80k since most roads are hectic at 30k.

I think most of the responses on this thread have missed the real issues you wanted to address, being whether it is still possible to take an Indian registered bike across borders. I would personally be very interested to know if the situation has changed and it is now possible, but unfortunately cant help you on this point.

We now seem to have got stuck on the issue of whether it is right or wrong to actually ride a larger bike on your licence. In my view your licence restriction is not likely to be a major issue at all, although it would certainly make things easier if you had an unrestricted licence.

I agree strongly with Stephano on this point about the likelihood of your licence being checked.

At the border crossings before you enter the EU the only documents likely to be checked are your passport, bike registration papers, insurance and either your temporary import permit/carnet. It is exceedingly rare for a border official to ever check a licence document. Even in the very rare circumstance that a border official did check your licence, I really doubt that they would identify that your licence is subject to any restrictions.

Further your licence is only likely to be checked by the police in the EU if you have commited a traffic infringement, so provided you drive sensibly within the legal speed limit (is it even possible for an Enfield to break the speed limit????), I doubt you will have problems.

The next thorny issue raised is whether your insurance will be invalidated by only having a provisional licence. I think we are confusing the policy restrictions that a UK based insurer would impose (ie you must have full licence) with the restrictions of the local 3rd party insurance you will be forced to buy at the border before you arrive in the EU. 3rd party insurance is normally sold at borders by some bored agent without any discussion as to the policy restrictions. The only reason you actually buy it is because either a border official insists on it, or to avoid having to pay bribes if you are stopped without it. Trying to make a claim on this type of local 3rd party insurance is virtually impossible anyway, irrespective of your type of licence. If you have an accident and are at fault, you would generally have to make some form of payment to the local involved in the accident, irrespective if you have acquired 3rd party insurance for that country.

Therefore the whole point about your insurance being invalid due to licencing restrictions is completely irrelevant in the developing world.

The situation does change when you enter the EU and then you would need to arrange a Green Card. Then any restrictions on the policy would be imposed by the relevant issuer. One thing you could try is to buy 3rd party insurance when you enter Turkey and then apply for the Turkish insurer to provide you with a Green Card for the rest of Europe. This may avoid the issue about having a limit on your licence as the Turkish insurer may not impose any restrictions.

The key message is dont let this issue deter your trip.

cheers

So the message is very clearly - IGNORE ALL LAWS EVERYWHERE AND JUST DO AS YOU PLEASE! People who proffer this message to a young inexperienced motorcyclist will "have blood on their hands" if anything happens to him whilst taking your stupid advice! - Just pass your test and then get a sensible middleweight to hone your skills on.

These road laws are designed to protect us ALL. If they are ignored then we are ALL at risk. How would you like YOUR mother run over by an unlicenced and uninsured motorcyclist? I have seen the consequences many times and I can assure you it's not very pleasant for ANYONE involved including the person who broke the law(s)...

As I have said above, anyone who tells this young man to break the law and ride otherwise than in accordance with their driving licence is on the balance of probability likely to be a CRIMINAL themselves or at the very least extremely childish and a future convict!

Reminds me of all those nasty and Ignorant people out their who regularly park in Disabled parking spaces and who have no consideration for people who have disabilities - It's been proven that these people are likely to be criminals. Most decent law abiding citizens would never dream of taking a disabled persons parking space...

Words Fail me!

Clearly, they don't. :)

Just to clarify, my points were:
Driving without an appropriate licence is wrong and not to be condoned.
Driving licences are not generally checked at borders.
Foreign number plates are not routinely pulled over by police forces.

Parking in disabled spots illegally is also wrong, as is driving without insurance where it is obtainable and legally required.

I think actually we agree on the main points of opinion. :thumbup1:
Stephan

My point is if he's ridden through India then he's capable of riding anywhere in the world. The borders here are sloppy, there's way too much for the countries to care about then checking license provisions. Besides, there's no size provision in the US, so nyah, nyah, nyah. You can be 15 and buy a Hayabusa.

Sorry, I forgot about the crime requirement to post. I need to go out and do some crimes - maybe get some sushi and not pay.

[QUOTE=kentfallen;206880]As I have said above, anyone who tells this young man to break the law and ride otherwise than in accordance with their driving licence is on the balance of probability likely to be a CRIMINAL themselves or at the very least extremely childish and a future convict!

QUOTE]

Kentfallen,

I dont appreciate your insinuation that someone who comments on this thread is a criminal. Stick to the facts next time and keep your personal prejudices out of this discussion.

Your comments are certainly valid in a UK context where it is illegal to drive a motorcycle without the correct licence. There is no debate here, as the law is clear. Therefore Londonman will have issues if and when he returns to Dover, on a motorcycle greater than 125cc. Further he may also have issues in countries which impose restrictions on motorcycles licences, such as in the EU, which is moving towards standardisation of European licence classes.

DO NOT however confuse the UK restrictions on motorcycle licences with restrictions that other countries may impose. The fact that Londonman has a valid motorcycle licence in the UK, albeit with capacity restrictions, means very little in developing countries which do not necessarily impose the same limitations. Therefore provided the countries he is riding in do not impose capacity restrictions he will be riding legally.

You also clearly do not understand the nature of insurance in developing countries. Irrespective of whether you have valid 3rd party insurance or not, the likelihood of this insurance paying out in the event that you are the cause of an accident is remote. Therefore anyone who rides in a developing country needs to be aware that if you are at fault, it may be customary to pay compensation to the local victim. This is not being irresponsible, rather it is a recognising what actually happens in practice.

The broader point however is that if Londonman were to undertake this trip, it is unlikely to be a major issue until he enters the EU.

cheers

I would just like to point out that having a piece of plastic in your pocket from the DVLA isn't a replacement for experience and riding skills. Having ridden farmbikes in NZ from the age of 14 without a license (on private property mind you - so don't go calling me a criminal...) and having a learners license and a 250cc bike all through Uni, i was pretty experienced when i came to the UK. I did get a full license over here but not because i thought it would automatically make me a better rider.

And having looked at some of the "licensed" riders in the UK, I'm not sure they learnt anything by getting their licenses either. My Kiwi mate rode over here for 2 years without a license. Even though it was due to apathy and he was in grave danger of getting arrested or having to pay out a lot in an accident, he was a competent rider who never had an accident.

Not that I'm condoning riding without insurance, a license and the necessary paperwork, but that doesn't automatically make you a bad rider. But I certainly wouldn't suggest riding through Europe without these.

And kentfallen it's rude to call people "IDIOTS", "DICKHEADS" and "CRIMINALS", and also to SHOUT

MY case proven!

And it's not rude to sharply point out when someone is breaking criminal law in the UK. My disparidging comments are only directed at persons on this thread who support law breakers. Laws are in the main designed to protect all of us including the person that breaks the law. It is wrong to adopt a soft line on bikers who ride without a licence or insurance in the UK or anywhere in the first world. I'm qualified to comment because a good friend of mine was killed in a M/C road accident in 2001 when an unlicensed biker ploughed into a queue of construction workers. I'm also ex plod myself (18 years) and I have seen some really rotten sights :(

Neil, enough!
I too live in Kent (for the next 3 weeks anyway) and yet I begin to tire of your scrawny-necked Presbyterianism.

In the name of Beelzebub, silence!

My ex-girlfriend's dad was murdered, therefore police call me constantly to ask my opinion about murders.

Neil, you should visit India (or any other developing nation), and then you'll slap your head and say, "Oh, now I get it". The world doesn't follow EU/UK rules.

Also, in New Zealand it isn't a legal requirement to ride or drive with any kind of insurance, even third party. Does that mean that someone in NZ who rides without insurance but doesn't break the law is a better rider than when they ride in the UK without insurance and do break the law??

But, again, I don't think people should ride without licenses, insurance proper paperwork or decent experience.

And i don't think a case has been proven to be honest.... Well, at least not about this thread...

thing is...
 

dont know if this has already been mentioned but it also depends on who the rozzer is at the border, and you cant really tell in foreign places becuase everything is unusual, (hence www.horizonsunlimited.com) but that said im sure there are heaps of people going across borders without sufficient paperwork these days, buuut think of the politics: how many nations would want your ass in stir, and what would they pin on you?
remember the brits in greece? accused of spying?
when ur out there being accused of all sorts without the propper paperwork and ur on ur onesies what u gonna do???

imho, get ur license...stress free trip right?

Enfields from India to UK
 

I did it! But I did have a full licence and it was eight years ago before the Indian government stopped the AA/RAC issuing carnets. But I found most countries will give you a temporary import instead. I should point out that I returned to the UK via the easterly route through SE Asia, Australia, NZ, South America, Central America, Mexico, US and Canada where I flew us home.

Don't let anyone put you off doing it on an Enfield unless you are in a hurry. It took me seven years but I did stop and live/work in NZ for ages.

If you want to do it, do it. Find a way! Good luck.

Jacqui