Africa without a Carnet on a 2010 Tenere
 

Hi all!
We're currently in Nairobi, Kenya (Jungle Junction) and just completed one year of Africa. We started in Morocco arrived in Cape Town after 9 months and now we're on our way to Europe, Romania on East Coast. We crossed the following countries: Morocco, Mauritania, Mali, Burkina, Togo, Benin, Nigeria, Cameroon, Congo Brazzaville, Congo Kinshasa, Zambia (yes... we crossed from Kinshasa to Lubumbashi), Namibia, SAR (+ Lesotho), Botswana, Zambia, Mozambique, Tanzania, Kenya without a carnet. Each country issued some sort of Temporary Import Permit so it's possible to do it with out it. In Mauritania and Tanzania the customs officer stamped also my passport. All the process was hassle free and pretty easy.
Morocco - Tanger Med - free, just registered at customs
Mauritania - 10E when entered and asked and payed 10E at exit but just because was the first weeks in Africa. In reality you don't need to pay twice
Mali - Gogui - 10000CFA Laissez Passer (normaly 5000CFA but we arrived on Sunday) + 5000CFA police registration of the LP
Burkina Faso - Koro - 5000CFA LP
Togo - Senkanse - 5000CFA LP
Benin - ?? Near Aneho - 5000CFA LP
Nigeria - Seme - 7000 Naira at Seme Border (1000 bribe to stamp passports, 4000 TIP, 2000 Bribes in order not to pay a bond); apparently at Nikki the TIP is free; payed 1000 Naira to extend the TIP for a second month at Mfum
Cameroon - Ekok - 7500CFA 15 days Laissez Passer (no one checked that it had long expired when we exited)
Gabon - Bitam - 10000CFA LP after hours fee (normally 5000CFA until 6 PM)
Congo - ?? Doussala - 10000CFA LP(asked 20000 but negotiated to 10000 - probably possible for 5000)
DR Congo - entered through a small border near Luozi and managed to pay nothing; exited through Kasumbalesa and managed not to go to Customs (very big border post); is not recommended to do so as you can have to haggle to exit (it happened to us in Benin)
Zambia - Kasumbalesa - TIP Free, Road Tax 50000 Kwacha (can avoid paying it)
Namibia - Katima Mullilo - No TIP, just road Tax 140 Nam$
SAR - Vioolsdrif - nothing just waived through :)
Lesotho - Sani Pass - There's 30 Rand bike tax but we've payed 100 Rand for visas, tax and everything
Bothswana - Grobler's Bridge - 240 Pula (Auch) Permit, Road Tax and Insurance (no papers just a receipt) other reports suggest that this practice is random
Zambia - Kazungula - TIP Free, Road Tax 50000 Kwacha (can avoid paying it, second time we didn't pay)
Mozambique - Cassacatiza - 27 Meticals TIP :D yeah that's almost 1US$
Tanzania - Unity Bridge - 25 USD TIP
Kenya - Taveta - 20 USD TIP

Also in Nairobi we've just applied successfully for the Ethiopian Visa (20 US$ pp) after asking the ambassador and kindly explaining our story.

Will report our experience with the following countries.

Cheers,

Ionut

Thank you .. nice report (and helpful to many :) ... interesting to see how you progress further northwest:)
Anyway, always welcome ... N 24º12.943 E 035º25.503
(the only XT660Z 2009, fully imported to egypt :)
cheers
bier

Totally helpful - thanks for posting.

Have been following your ride - very, very cool.

Be safe & Ride on.

Sean

Safe back to Europe - Africa without Carnet de Passage
 

Ok so we made it without a CpD!

Ethiopia - Moyale - Free (just completed a form (TIP) and asked for a copy of the registration paper)
Sudan - Metema - 15 Sudanese Pounds for TIP (~3USD).
Egypt - Aswan - Now the funny part: 2500EgP (410USD) for a CpD from the Auto Club of Emirates with 2 pages. Egypt is insanely expensive if you travel with your vehicle; besides Cpd we've payed some extra 700Egp (115USD) to enter from Sudan (Custom clearance, plates, licence, fixer commission) and 2150EgP(350USD) to exit towards Turkey (1250 Custom Clearance, 750 Shipping Agent Commission, 150 Storage in Port Said)

So after 420 days in Africa we've payed 625USD in order to cross without Carnet de Passage. Way cheaper than the 500Euro/year +10000Euro deposit asked by the ACR thieves in Romania. Even if you make a carnet with ADAC (the cheapest option in EU) you still pay ~200E/Year + 3000E deposit (that's ~150E interest if you keep the deposit in your account). Not to mention that with a Cpd you'll be asked for money at a lot of borders in order to stamp it.

Without this useless piece of paper you're stress free if you want to travel around Africa and you don't have a strict schedule (more than one year). Except for Egypt all borders are "hassle" free if you use your common sense and you engage in conversation with the customs people. If you use fixers than you'll be ripped off by everybody and you'll be treated like a walking wallet.

Thank you very much !!
 

Thank you Mr. White,

I have followed parts of you trip here on the HUBB, you are a very good photographer and your reports are very good to read. Thank you for sharing it.

In 2004/2005 I traveled a similar route to yours thru Africa on an XT600Tenere using a CDP for some of the borders. But I promised myself the next time I go to Africa I wont have a CDP (because I just hate the ADAC, which is a long story itself).

Thank you for showing everybody here on the HUBB that it is possible (except for Egypt).

Here is your quote in red, because I think it is important for some travellers to read.

Saludos and all the best

Mika from Salta Argentina

Thanks for posting this thread.

A real eye-opener, after my own London - Cairo - Cape Town ride in 2010 - very much with CdP.

I came to like Africa very much on my journey and it's nice to read positive reports about the continent, rather than negative ones that don't seem to tie in with my experiences.

It's often occurred to me - how did this whole CdP system come about and what purpose does it really serve? Specially if the most protective country (Egypt) doesn't insist on it?
I've never researched this, but I wonder, is it just a means for the FIA to make money out of providing an unnecessary layer of bureaucracy in league with those countries that were persuaded by the FIA to do so?

Haven't seen your blog yet but will do so soon following the recommendations posted here.
Cheers

Hey Guys
Great post and very helpful for the research I'm doing into a trip to Africa. A Carnet does seem to have its pros and cons! Out of interest, if you do use a CPD but dont declare that you are going to Egypt (deposit of 600% of the value of the bike- wtf!), will the Egyptian border officials issue you out with a CPD just for Egypt when you eventually get there??

All this carnet stuff is hard work- there appears to be quite a bit of contradictory advice, with some people saying dont bother with one, and others saying you pretty much definitely require one!! I'm lost!!

Africa with no CDP
 

Great article and thanks for posting!

We did West Coast Africa with CDP & Land Rover and found it OK but more expensive than your costs so its great that you have documented this and process you went through.

We did meet a few people in 4x4s traveling without CDP in Africa. Would love to hear / read similar experiences as detailed as this for a 4x4 doing Africa without a CDP.

Thanks for sharing

Nick

As above, be great to hear experiences by 4x4's without CdP. Is this mainly customs processing motorcycles through without or will 4x4's be treated the same with minimal hassle?

Richard.

Africa without a Carnet
 

Please forgive my ignorance but what does "CFA" in the Africa without a Carnet post refer to.
Thanks, Beth

"Not to mention that with a Cpd you'll be asked for money at a lot of borders in order to stamp it."

NOT TRUE AT ALL.

I was never asked for any stamping fee for my Carnet in my 3 year African trip. There was sometimes a road tax or something that you paid regardless (Tanzania/Kenya), but never anything for entering with the carnet. I did the same countries as you plus quite a few more.

In a few cases there were audible sighs of disappointment when I produced it, as it mean't no opportunity for them to pocket a few dollars.

It made borders much easier I found - no need to talk to anybody, just get a stamp in and out (if they could be bothered doing it!).

Overall I think having a internationally recognised document is a great way of approaching things - I had 3 altogether, new ones sent out when the old one was going to expire, I'm not sure why you mention a one year limit?

However, I agree that the way the carnet system is handled for travellers is stupidly expensive and restrictive. Why is it valid for 12 months - why not 24 or 17 or 29 months? That alone cost me an extra £1,000 in having to have two new carnets couriered to me. F'ing stupid numbers on a piece of paper that caused me endless stress and money.

You have a bike though???

It seems easier with a bike - having a 4x4 like me I was clearly told that Kenya wouldn't allow you in without a carnet? Angola wouldn't give me a visa because my carnet would expire when I was going to be in the country (i.e.: I needed one to apply). Saudi would only give me a visa with the carnet etc.

My overall opinion was that it was much easier to have a carnet, but if I did the trip again I wouldn't use one due to the high costs and hassles when it expires.

If a carnet was £50 and valid for 5 years it would be a no brainer.

No carnet in Africa! It work for me!
 

Im in Israel now,I cross 22countrys from Maroco - Cape town-Cario riding Us register bike.
with out Carnet,I took advise from Mrwhite,When, you coming to Egypt from Sudan ask for TIP and pay $800 Refundable-Deposit which I got back to the penny when I left Egypt to Israel,lost $70 when I exchange from Egypt money to Us$,make sure you exchange on Egypt side NOT Israel.
its a lot better than Canada carnet that cost $750 non refundable
+ other horseshit. and Kenya border,easy dont stop at customs and just ride using the other gate like 25,000 miles with Luke and Nick Did.

Thank you Mrwhite,Luke and Nick.bier

I know of people asked for money for stamping the Cpd and we personally got asked for stamping our passport (exit stamp) so it is definitely possible. The fact you never got asked for money I guess is your personal luck. Anyway I know after you spend probably more than 1500£ on a Cpd it's hard to acknowledge that in the end is easier without this useless paper. At least for Africa and other parts of the world. I recon in the future the rest of the countries that still obsessed with this Cpd (Saudi Arabia, Iran, India, Pakistan, Australia) and the others that are closed for bikers (China, Burma, Vietnam) will change their politics. Time will tell.
I started this topic with costs in mind, here in Romania a Cpd is 500E. So I discovered that actually is cheaper for me with a TIP (probably like for most of the people)
I'm sure a lot of people don't start to explore Africa because of the costs and risks involved in a Cpd but hopefully not anymore.

Cheers,
John

Definitely possible, but I was replying to the part where it said "asked for money at a lot of borders" which strongly implies that it would be a constant problem which it isn't. (Quite a change of tune by the way).

Us overlanders in Africa will always be asked for money in different ways as different officials fish, I was asked for money for a tv license in Nigeria for example, but with stamping carnets it seems well understood its for free - though some borders barely knew what to do with it coming down the west coast and sometimes people confuse an official charge as being for the carnet.

Some of how you get treated is also due to how you present yourself and your body language, along with who you are dealing with.

"Anyway I know after you spend probably more than 1500£ on a Cpd it's hard to acknowledge that in the end is easier without this useless paper."

I guess you mean that to be insulting as thats how it reads? A really lazy and untrue statement considering I laid out pluses and negatives above. You seem determined to be 'right' and better than others on this when its grey rather than black and white. And different with a 4x4 rather than a bike.

How long does a TIP last in each country?

- usually 30 days - then usually can be extended, sometimes only in the capital city though which can be a real pain.
- sometimes the length of your visa (or less!!), check before you leave the border the two are the same length if you not just passing through.
- sometimes 90 days like the road permit in Namibia.
- sometimes what you ask and pay for like in Botswana.

It varies quite a bit, so research and ask - from a previous trips:
Morocco: 6 months out of every 12 ok
Mori: whatever they scribble in your passport,
Mali: 30 days then extended in Bamako (only here!?) for another 90 days (free)
Somaliland: whatever I asked for
Ghana: Same as visa entry stamp, 2 months
Ethiopia: same as visa
etc

According to MrWhite's experience in Africa are there similar experiences crossing borders of Iran, India and Pakistan?
Is a TIP in these countries an option as we're not planning to get a CPD for the simply reason that we want to keep on travelling, so the guarantee funded to het ADAC will not be refunded as of one the conditions is that the Motorcycle must be physically controlled atbthe end of a trip by an Customs Office within the EU:nono:
This is so in contradictoin of free travelling.:thumbup1:

Really sorry if I offended you. It was not in my intention.
The thing is I clearly named this thread "Africa without a Carnet on a 2010 Tenere" but probably I should have mentioned very clear that this experience applies to bikes. I totally agree that other than bike it would be rather difficult and with a lot more hassle involved (but I'm confident to say not impossible). It's true that it's hard to generalise but some things are in black and white. Before starting this journey I did a lot of research and I was put off by the idea of CpD (basically impossible to get one in Romania, at least for me). Then I started finding some suggestions that people heard about others crossing without Cpd and I decided to take a gamble and follow my dream. 14 Months later I managed to do it and I put this info here only for other who will be in the same situation as me. I don't know if it's the RIGHT way but definitely is the way to follow your dream if you cannot get or afford a CpD.


Like roamingyak.org posted it depends but you can definitely extend one. For example in Nigeria I got 30 days (like the visa) but then I extended the visa in Calabar and at the customs office they told me to go at the border for the extension which I did and managed to get another 30 days.

From what I researched Iran is doable (but quite costy) and I never heard of people riding in Pakistan and India without one. For Iran coming from Turkey you have the deposit option (which Margus reported here a few years ago; he managed this in 2005 if I remember correctly) or the 'local" carnet which I guess is something like a scam, bribe, fishy stuff. For this option you'll deal with dubious people and it's possible in the end to get ripped off. The drawback of the deposit option is that you'll have to exit through the same border but as romnek72 posted earlier about egypt I think you can ask to get the refund at another border.

Cheers,
John

Hi mrwhite!

I'm new here and I'm planning a trip like yours but starting/ending in spain on my 2010 GSA.

I was told the route from Kinsasha to Lumbashi is really hard near impossible to do by bike. Do you feel the same? I'm not Marc Coma but I believe I do have some skills to ride my bike properly off-road...

Plus, after reading your post I've decided to not buy a CPD, many thanks!!! bier

I plan to cross Angola, but want to make sure the route to Lumbashi is still a possible option if I need to. Many thanks in advance for your reply!

Cheers!

Cheers Isaac,
really hope you'll have a blast throughout Africa. It's an amazing place to ride and explore.
Regarding DRC I personally would not recommend the route form Kinshasa to Lubumbashi. For me in wet season was insane, Tony-on-the-Road and others crossed in dry and struggled (a lot of deep sand) and all reports are with bikes way lighter than your GS (4 Teneres and a 800GS). I really cannot picture a fully loaded 1200GSA doing this route. It's not about being Coma or not is just physics. There are areas with hundreds of miles of a sandy road with just "one lane" made of two 30-50cm deep trenches made by the lorries. It's nearly impossible to always maintain your track between the two trenches and when you will eventually end up in one you'll get stuck big time because the GS is really wide (boxer engine). Also there's the political unrest in the south. Just a week ago the Mai-Mai have tried to capture Lubumbashi and the shoot-out ended with casualties.
Just research the situation with the Angolan visa and get it where is possible (last time I heard it was possible in Accra/Ghana) and pray that the situation remain calm and you manage to cross through. :)

Cheers,
John

Thanks John, I will try hard to get Angola visa here in Spain!

Cheers! :)

Egypt Carnet
 

Thanks for posting here everyone - this thread contains the most useful information on the subject that I've found to date.

I'm thinking of doing a Carnet but leaving Egypt off, since the cost for me is 1500 USD without Egypt and 5000 USD without.

MrWhite or anyone else who has done the Egyptian Carnet at the border - any trouble getting your deposit back when exiting?

Just a quick update. My trip across Africa started last April 13th, so far I've done Morocco, Mauritania, Senegal, Mali, Burkina Faso and I'm now in Togo waiting for Nigerian visa. No CPD and no issues so far. Payed 2500 CFA in Senegal border for Laissez Passage, and 5000 CFA in Burkina and another 5000 CFA in Togo. Will update as my trip continues. And will keep reading for Egypt information!!!

Another update!

I'm now in Cape Town, SA. So far no problems without carnet, on some countries they just don't ask, on others they ask and then make me a laissez-passage, or passavant, or any other kind of paper that lets me enter with my bike in the country. On some it is free, on others I have to pay from 2500CFA to 10000CFA, or 140 Namibian Dollars, very cheap compared to the price of the Carnet!

In 10 days I'll continue my trip up to Egypt... let's see how it goes!!!

Cheers!

thanks for the update Isaac! Be interested to hear how Egypt goes...
happy travels.

Gratulation for reaching Capetown without hassle!

You was pretty quick for driving with a bike!

Surfy

I have been travelling for the past 2 years WITH a carnet on a UK registered bike (throughout Europe, Iran, Central Asia, India, Nepal, SE Asia) but it expired at the end of April while in Malawi. I decided not to get a new one because it is so expensive and I have used it so infrequently in the past 2 years. I entered Tanzania 2 weeks ago on a TIP, free of charge, without a problem (border near Karonga). Yesterday I entered Kenya from the Namanga border and received a TIP valid for 1 week at no charge however I did have to gently coerce the customs official as the he said the TIP is only available to East African community registered vehicles. I said our friend travelled through Taveta border 2 weeks ago with a TIP (of course I was making this up but referring to John's successful crossing in Taveta some time ago). He was a nice guy so let us through with little hesitation but emphasised it was only for 1 week. I am heading north to Egypt so will continue to update.

Cheers
Glenn

Thanks!

I drive non-stop from sun to sun! :D :D

And after 1 week here in Cape Town I am really willing to continue my trip!! In 6 days I'll start again riding... Mozambique, be ready, here I go! :D :D

I'm also waiting for Glenn report about Egypt...

Cheers!

Sounds like you have an steel ass bier



Can you show us your route?


Specially the congo and dr.congo area - would be interesting for me!


Did you carry a tent?

For me as 4x4 driver i cant imagin how you travel in details...

Surfy

I do have a steel ass! :D :D

Here is the planned route: https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.n...27635012_n.png

I can give you the full GPS tracks for congos if you send me your email at isaac (at) moterus (dot) es

And yes, I do carry a tent, sleeping bag, stove, some liophilised food, spare parts and tools, two extra tires, some clothers, computer, cameras.... in my bike!!! Here is how it looks like after some riding in congo:
https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.n...92725753_n.jpg

I believe you will suffer more than I in congos... roads are simply totally destroyed. With a bike you can try to choose the "correct" path, with a car you simply have to drop it into the holes and try to exit....

Let me know if you want the tracks! ;)

BTW, if someone is interested in the other pictures... I keep a facebook page more or less updated: https://www.facebook.com/isaacfeliuafricacall with some photos and videos...

Wow, that was quick ! I guess the advantage is that by crossing the west coast so fast you can get all the problematic visas (Ghana, Nigeria, DRC, Angola) at home before leaving... is that what you've done ?

(sorry about hijacking the topic :offtopic: )

Keep us posted on how it goes and safe riding (if you're returning as quickly as you went, watch for the speed traps in Tanzania !).

Laurent

awesome isaac!

From Spain to South Africa I had all visas except Nigeria, Cameroon and Congo Brazzaville. For Nigerian visa I had to wait 3 days (it can be done in 1), for Cameroon I got it same day on Calabar (even on a Saturday, nice history behind), and Congo Brazza can be obtained at the border. I'm currently in Nairobi, Kenia. Tomorrow I will get Etiopian visa to continue my way up to Europe!! :)

Sorry to hijack the topic! To apport something valuable: I'm on Kenia and still no CPD and no issues so far!!! Only 3 countries left! (Etiopia, Sudan and Egypt).

Wish me good luck! ;)

Cheers!

Issac! We just returned to Nairobi yesterday from Uganda (staying at Jungle Junction), we can't believe you have travelled this quickly and that we missed you! (We are also getting both our Ethiopian and Sudanese visas here). You will certainly be in Egypt before us so please keep us posted on the carnet situation.

A further update from me though, so as I said 2 weeks ago we received a TIP on entering Kenya from Tanzania (Namanga border) but it stated it was only for 7 days. The guy said when we crossed the Malaba border between Kenya and Uganda they can extend it. It was stamped and extended for 3 months without a problem and free of charge. It also got me into Uganda and back to Kenya.

Cheers and safe riding
Glenn

Hehe... I'm in Addis Ababa now, I planned to get Egypcian visa here as in Nairobi they told me only give visas for Kenian people. But after some research I've discovered is easy to get the visa right in the border, so... here I go! I plan to reach Khartoum in next 2 days and maybe Egypt border in 3. I'm going to ask in the border if the land border is already opened so I can avoid taking the Wadi Halfa ferry... I'll keep this thread updated as long as I have the information and an internet connection! I hope in less than a week be able to tell how did it all go!

See you, travel safe!

Safe travels issac!

It is amazing how quick your progress is and how you manage your Visa stuff inside of such a timeline. :thumbup1:

I`m curious about the land border!

Yesterday I've reached Wadi Halfa. I'ts damn hot here... 47.5° Celcius, driving was not fun at all!!!

Anyway seems like I'm a lucky guy, My bike will leave tomorrow, and I will leave after tomorrow. Still no CPD, Total cost for the ferries, customs and all the legal stuff is 776 sudanese pounds, plus 240 for my passport registration (I didn't do it in Khartoum). I should be in Aswan on Wednesday, will update about Egypcian side! Wish me luck!

Sent from my GT-S7710 using Tapatalk 2

We are planning on going through Africa, beginning in the end of 2014.

I am very suprised, that it seems to be possible to go into South Africa without a Carnet. We always thought that we will have to leave that out, but after reading all of your posts, I am pretty confident, that we will be able to risk it. At least it's worth a try to go to the border an hope for the best.

Thank you!

Arne

Congratulation @ Isaac, for your progress!



Theretically you are able to optain the carnet when you get stuck on a border, because they want a carnet.

When you have a multiple entry visa you can drive back to the nearest city.

Just look that a friend at home who can send the money & application form to the carnet issuer, and sent you the carnet soon it is arrived within TNT/DHL.

If you dont have a multiple entry visa, you could get stuck betwen the borders, because you have to get your leaving stamps before you can optain the stamps for the new country.

When you be able to optain a valid temporary importpaper on each border - you should be fine.

I am very curious if it would work so easily with the car without carnet.

Surfy

And here I am, in Aswan. :)

I've just arrived this morning and my bike was already there, waiting for me. The trip has been awesome, sleeping in the front of the boat, looking at the stars... :)

Now about the interesting part... Here in Aswan I had Mohammed waiting for me (the fixer), I have explained him I had no carnet and he said "ouch!"... and then he told me I need to get an egypcian carnet. I've tried to explain him i want to pay a temporal import tax to get the money back when I leave Egypt, and after going to talk to 3 or 4 different officials he explained me I have 3 options:

1) Get an egypcian carnet and enter without problems
2) Pay the temporal import tax, but seems like it takes a week or more to complete the paperwork, and I was told it is going to cost me more than the carnet itself.
3) Go to the bank and pay the total cost for your bike, then carry the bike on a truck to the exit border and at there you get your money back, but you have to pay for the truck (expensive), and it takes lots of time also.

So after trying to explain that i do not want to pay a lot of money just to cross the country.... I had no better option than (1), and that means:
+ Pay 3500 LE for Egypcian carnet
+ Pay 200 US$ for all the paperwork, tips and everything..

In theory tomorrow morning I will have my carnet and all the paperwork ready to continue my trip. My initial idea was to go to port said and take the ferry to iskenderum, but I think i will try to go to Israel and then take the same ferry from there (Haifa to Iskenderum), so I exit egypt on a "easy" border and take the ferry from a more easy country...

Well update the post as I advance on this....

Cheers!

Thanks for the update Isaac, this is really very helpful for planning.

So it cost you about $700 US in total for the Egyptian carnet at the border. That is still less than other options for me, for my $3K value DR650 carnet options from Canadian Automobile Association ($USD) are:

Total = $6000, $5000 bond returned on discharge (with Egypt)
Total = $3500, $1100 returned on discharge (with Egypt)
Total = $1500, $300 returned on discharge (without Egypt) + $700 at border

For me, going the same route as Isaac would cost about $900 more than the indemnity bond option, but forgo the risk of having 5K at the mercy of CAA. I may not even make it to Egypt or very possibly not within 1 year anyway.

thanks again for the helpful info Isaac.

Please note that the 3500 LES are just for the egyptian carnet, that means that if I had a carnet, i had still to pay 200 US$, so even if you have a carnet you have to pay 200 US$ at the border (your mileage here may vary, of course!).

Hope that helps! Anyway I still have not finished the paperwork and have not exited the country, so I will continue updating the post as it goes. :)

Cheers!

ahh, so really only $500 more to get at the border. the Isaac option wins.

good luck getting the paperwork completed and happy travels ahead!

Hi Issac

A few of us here at Jungle Junction have been eagerly awaiting your update. Thanks for this information. Well done!

Look forward to further updates.

Cheers
Glenn

I'm glad it helps someone! :)

BTW, I was planning to exit to Israel on a land border and from there going to Haifa to take the ferry to Turkey, but seems like this line is no longer working, so only option is to take the ferry in Port Said (I hate that....).

I'll keep the thread updated!

Cheers!

Thank you for the update!

Confusing that you need an carnet, where others are able to obtain the temporary import papers recently.

But anyway - you find a cheap way for handling it anyay!

Gratulations for geeting the "round" in such a quick way!

I hope you will write something like a blog or website, and add some pictures to it :thumbup1:

Surfy

Ok, so here is another update....

First: If you don't have a CPD, try to get it on Khartoum (Sudan), I was told in Aswan that is possible to get one for 1800 Sudanese pounds. (I paid 3500 Egipcian pounds for mine....)

Second: I was told my carnet will arrive on thursday morning but finally it did yesterday (saturday), so after waiting 2 extra days I managed to get all the paperwork done and my new license plates. I drove fast as hell to port said, arrived there this morning... just to discover the ferry that goes to Iskenderum leaves today at 5pm but they need 2 days (2 f*cking days!?) for the paperwork, so I have to wait here for 3 days for next ferry, next Wednsday. And now the best part of all, they ask me 850 US$ and 500 Egipcian pounds for the ferry tickets, customs and comissions... this is just insane! I've crossed 22 countries in Africa for less than 100 $ total, and crossing Egipt is going to cost me 1620 US$

That said. I'm 100% sure I will never again come back to egypt with my own vehicle and I suggest everyone to not try it. Is a total waste of time and money. I had to wait 2 days in wadi Halfa + 1 day ferry + 3 days in Aswan + 3 days in Port said + 1 day ferry = 10 days to cross 1000 kms and 1620 US$ spent. Way too much for me.

Sorry to said that but I hate how things work here.

This was my opinion in 1999: Chapter 5 The Big Trip Looks like we're on the same wave length.:rofl:

Enjoy the rest of your trip. It can only ever be better than Egypt. I'm envious.

Ok here's the last update. Seems like the ferry is not going on Wednsday but next saturday (and they are not sure about this...) So I'll be here for at least one more week... I've done South Africa -> Sudan faster than I will be able to do Sudan -> Turkey. :censored:

Cheers!

... and this is waaaaaay faster than it would've taken twenty years ago. ;-) I can't believe your times. Heading south from Egypt to Sudan back in 1994 it took 6 WEEKS just to get the Sudanese visa!
This is all fantastic research and we are all grateful!
Shukran, and have some fried eggplant and koushari for me.
Lorraine

Yeah! I believe part of the problem is that everything else has been too smooth for me. I got all visas same day except Sudanese visa that took 1 day. No problems at all on any border (all passed in less than 30 minutes, without carnet). And then suddently Egypt appears and ruins everything. :frown:

Anyway, I'm going to enjoy my time here. I have to work but will try to spend some mornings driving around and enjoying what the country has to offer!!

Cheers!

Oh! BTW, before I forgot... Once in Egypt I was told that it is possible to get a carnet in Khartoum, and that it costs something like 1800 Sudanese Pounds. So almost half the price I've payed for mine in Aswan. It's worth a try!

beer

CDP from Turkey
 

HI All

I am about to plan a rip to Africa, and just read your posts.
Does anyone know if it is possible to get into egypt without a CDP when you arrive from Turkey?

Thanks!

/Kenneth

From Turkey to Egypt you NEED CARNET FOR SURE
 

I met in person English biker(dentist)on 1200adv back in may 2013 on ferry from Hifa,Israel to Turkey,he was trying to go from Turkey to Egypt with out Carnet,Egypt said NO!:nono: and he had to turn around.
I cross to Egypt from Sudan with out Carnet back in December 24-2012.
I had to pay refundable $800usd deposit which I got back to the penny :clap:when I cross the border Taba Egypt into Israel.
I would strongly recommend, when you going back to Europe, go to Israel
NOT Egypt(port Said).
I took the same ferry(Sisa Shipping) from Hifa(Israel)to Turkey for only$370usd(I did some haggle with Tiran Agent)for one person one motorbike.

Hi guys!

I´m finally at home after a 42.000 kms trip (41 countries, 2,5 months long).

I just want to say: Avoid going to Egypt, it will cost you too much money and time. They just see you as a walking wallet, they will try to steal all your money and never care about you.

It took me 6 weeks to cross 21 countries in africa, doing about 27.000 kms and spending less than $100 total.
It took me 2 weeks to cross Egypt, doing about 1.100 kms and spending about $2000. It does not make any sense, really.

I´m sorry for the few good egipcians that may live there, but most of them are just thieves, not to mention the police or customs officers and fixers....

I hate Egypt.

P.S.: Seems like the sisa line between Haifa and Iskenderum is not working anymore, and for me ticket costs for that ferry was 450$ for the bike, 200$ for me and 50$ for the cabin in the ferry...

Safe travel everyone!

Hi all

We are travelling much slower than Issac and are now in Sudan. Our first post a few months back was when we successfully crossed into Kenya without a carnet. We travelled via Lake Turkana to Ethiopia entering at the Omorate border (absolutely stunning route and worth carrying extra fuel and water even though we are 2 up and already very heavy - besides you can get enough fuel on the way at small shops. If you want more info on this route PM me).

We got the Ethiopian TIP with no problem and it was free. Leaving Ethiopia at Metema into Sudan was not as straight forward but no real hassle. They asked where our carnet was, we said we didn't have one just the TIP. After a few questions and confused looks, to which we responded with confidence saying its not necessary in Africa, they finally asked for a Comesa (which we had), took a copy of that and the TIP we had been issued and let us go.

Entering Sudan we were able to get a TIP, again after a little confusion, mostly because little English was spoken. Once we found the one English speaker who knew about TIP's, and once he found the forms (which took some time) we were issued a TIP free of charge.

So our next challenge is Egypt...

Issac, we have 2 questions about the two ferry services 1. Egypt to Turkey and 2. Wadi Halfa to Aswan.

You mention in 1 post the cost for the ferry to Iskendrum was $920 (ie $850 + 500 Egyptian pounds (approx $70). This was in the same post you mention the figure of $1620: $920 for the ferry + $500 for the carnet + $200 for fixers etc = $1620.

But then above you say the ferry to Iskendrum was $450 for the bike and $250 for you ie $700. So was the initial quote for the ferry to Turkey $920 but the actual cost you paid was only $700.

And then the Wadi Halfa/Aswan ferry - how much was this and how much were the fixer fees in Sudan? Do you pay arrival/fixer fees in Egypt for this ferry or only when you are leaving Egypt for Turkey?

Appreciate your help.
Glenn

Hi Glenn,

Let me answer your questions:

The costs for ferries:
Port Said to Iskenderum:
450$ for the bike
200$ for me
50$ for the cabin (I´ve heard of people asking 150 for the cabin... just get it on the ferry, there is a nice reception there).
200$ for the fixer and customs clearance
500 EGP for... I don't know...
100 extra EGP because the ferry did not leave on wed but sunday, so that was the parking tax (ridiculous....)
Total: 900$ and 600 EGP.

Wadi Halfa to Aswan:
on sudanese side:
ferry ticket: 250 SdP
moto ticket: 206 SdP
Tax, customs, office and fixer fee... 280SdP
Capitain Tips: 40Sdp
Passport Registration (I forgot to do so in Khartoum): 240 SdP
Total: 1016 SdP

on egypcian side:
3500 EgP for Carnet
200$ for fixer, customs, etc..

Total cost for everything together:

1100$ + 3500 EgP + 1016SdP = Aprox 1840$, and that is without adding the hotel + food costs for the 2 weeks I had to wait total on sudan and egypt....

You need a fixer to exit sudan and a fixer to enter/exit egypt. For sudanese part i would recommend Magdi Boshara (nubatia51@yahoo.com / Tel:0121730885), for the egypcian part i would not recommend Mohamed Abouda. I have the contact data for another fixer, but i don't know how good or bad is he: Eslam Elshamaa (eslam_elshamaa@windowslive.com/ Tel:00201289220002).

If you are in Port Said I recommend hotel de la poste, good rooms at good price (75 EgP per night). On Wadi Halfa, I don't remember the exact name of the hotel but sounds like "CanGam hotel" (not exactly that), they have some rooms with A/C that are just ok, but I was told that was the best hotel in the city, it is also cheap.

Hope that helps, if you have more questions, just ask! :)

Good Luck with those borders and beware Egypt is now in a very unstable situation....

Thanks for the super quick response Issac - just like your riding style! We are aware of the current situation in Egypt, hence why we want a full understanding of costs so we can consider our options. It could even be cheaper/same cost to fly? I wonder if there are services from Port Sudan to Turkey? Does anyone know? We are aware of a RORO from Djibouti to Naples then Marseilles, but this would mean backtracking to Ethiopia to Djibouti. Any advice/suggestions are welcome (I will create a seperate post about this so as to not hijack the TIP/Carnet post completely).

I'm glad to help! ;)

I was told there is a ferry service between Port Sudan and Europe (Possibly Italy or France), but I have not researched that. If you do not have CpD and you want to enter Egypt, try to get it on Khartoum (I was told it cost approx 1800 SdP, too late for me of course!).

Good Luck!

CDP
 

since riders are now chosing to cross Africa without carnet it maybe useful to have a border crossing repertory with all info given by riders per country

Hi Isaac,

Thanks for your shared insights! I'm leaving on a trip down the African east coast in the next month, but would prefer to avoid Egypt - UK Carnet is extremely expensive.

Do you know how it would be coming from the other direction (north to south)? Ferry to Egypt from Turkey/Greece and then trying to get an Egyptian CDP?

Other options? Ride through Turkey/Iran/Saudi and take a ferry across to Sudan? Has anyone any experience coming though Israel and trying to get into Sudan recently?

Any advice appreciated.

Sorry I have not experience nor heard of anyone doing the trip this way recenlty. But I guess it should be as easy from turkey as from Sudan.

About avoiding Egypt, If you don't care about crossing europe to Turkey, I believe there is a ferry between Italy or France and Sudan, but I don't know details. Just Keep in mind crossing Egypt will cost you about 2k dollars and a lot of time and headaches... so now, if I were you, I would try to avoid it if possible. ;)

Entering arabic countries with an Israel stamp in the passport may be impossible, but I do know Israel borders allow you to get the stamp on a separate paper (or you can try to get two valid passports in your country, as I did in Spain).

Good Luck!

We are in New Zealand, planning a trip to Africa.

A carnet here costs approx $600 plus 15% of the value of the bike (that you get back when the bike comes home).

If I have a carnet (as above) and arrive at a border to Egypt, what else do I need to pay? I am a little confused around the Egypt border and what you would pay WITH a carnet already?

Kiwi Mike

Quoting myself here are my costs:

-----------------------------------------------
The costs for ferries:
Port Said to Iskenderum:
450$ for the bike
200$ for me
50$ for the cabin (I´ve heard of people asking 150 for the cabin... just get it on the ferry, there is a nice reception there).
200$ for the fixer and customs clearance
500 EGP for... I don't know...
100 extra EGP because the ferry did not leave on wed but sunday, so that was the parking tax (ridiculous....)
Total: 900$ and 600 EGP.

Wadi Halfa to Aswan:
on sudanese side:
ferry ticket: 250 SdP
moto ticket: 206 SdP
Tax, customs, office and fixer fee... 280SdP
Capitain Tips: 40Sdp
Passport Registration (I forgot to do so in Khartoum): 240 SdP
Total: 1016 SdP

on egypcian side:
3500 EgP for Carnet
200$ for fixer, customs, etc..

Total cost for everything together:

1100$ + 3500 EgP + 1016SdP = Aprox 1840$, and that is without adding the hotel + food costs for the 2 weeks I had to wait total on sudan and egypt....
-----------------------------------------------

3500 EgP was for the carnet, the rest are actual costs of fixers/ferry tickets/whatever else. So having a carnet expect costs to be someting like 1400 US$ more or less.

Good luck!

The CDP, IDP, driving licence etc actually do you more harm than good as you're admitting jurisdiction to foreign governments. You already have the common law right to travel, and by applying for these documents, you're actually giving up the common-law rights you already had.

I started discovering this on a lightning 5-week blitz from UK to SA via the Middle-East in 2010 (no bribes, just offers). Now I drive on private plates, never get stopped and actually get waved though traffic stops (in South Africa).

When you register with a government or agency, you grant them power over you. It's all contract and in the fine-print. Usually the document you sign says something like: "I have read the BLAH act and I understand it.". You need to comprehend that the word "understand" actually means "to stand under", or "to submit to".

If you don't sign their paperwork they lack the standing in law to prosecute you, so now it's just down to how you handle their private offer for you to produce paperwork/pay a bribe/etc. It's just a private offer to contract.

All officials operate (apply statutes) on foreigners based on presumption only.

See my related post:
http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...-south-60808#4

PS: Don't be stupid. Try this on the small stuff first. Do your homework.

Well done guys especially Isaac, I am almost ashamed to talk about my propsed trip from the UK to Nigeria at the end of next month, it sounds like a walk in the park for some of you....LOL
Meanwhile, a very informative thread and definitely an answer to the carnet question.
If I may, there are just another couple of questions I have been pondering, some of these countries especially the W. African ones have import restrictions on the age of the vehicles that can be imported, how does this affect us overlanders if say we were to use a 10 year old Vstrom 650 that I am considering.
Also I have heard mixed reports of the type of roads we can expect near the border between Mauritania and Senegal, some say desert tracks with deep sand some say sand covered tarmac....
Best Regards

"Now the funny part" Thank you Mr White for the informative update. My wife and I are having problems getting into Egypt from Israel without a Carnet and you mentioned you were able to buy one from the Auto Club of the Emirates. They will not respond to my emails when I enquire about the possibility of purchasing a Carnet. Customs officials in Taba told us to get on the boat to Nuweiba where they "promise" us we could sort it out. Anyone have any reliable, current information?
In Carnet Limbo
Beth and Irish

Mr White, thanks so muchbier:thumbup1:. Carnet was big problem for me, now its past:clap::Dbier. I will go to the Capetown west side off Africa. Thanks man, again, cheers from Belgrade, Serbia:clap::thumbup1:bier.

Isaac, I think I saw your motorcycle in the center off the Belgrado, Serbia on the front hostel. I waiting half ours and left a letter with my cell number (because I always I want to welcome and help adv bikers , but you did not call. I hope we can meet somewhere, maybe in Spain when I started my African trip:).

Taba
 

I cross Taba border last JANUARY-2013,FROM Egypt to Israel with No Carnet just T.I.P(temporary,import,papers from Aswan border)I paid refundable $800usd for this TIP at Aswan border,it was not easy,it took me couple days,you need a lot patiance and smiles,it worked for me.
10 days later I rode up US register Motorbike European Passport to border crossing Taba asking for my $800usd refundable deposit,they also told me to go on boat to Nuweiba,but were is my $,they said again,Nuweiba (border crossing by boat with Jordan)So when I got to Nuweiba(aporx70km one way) they ask me where do I want to go, Israel or Jordan? I said Israel,they said you have to go back to Taba,What about my Refund $800usd for TIP? Taba border crossing have it,I ask them to call Taba In front of me to make sure they have my MONEY,They said"yes we have it,come back"
So when I got there(second time) everthing was nice and smooth, custom manager said "Im sorry here is your refund"
What I learned traveling around continent Africa border crossing you have to be Nice,Polite,consistent,patient.
It worked for me.

Sciii,

when are you leaving on your trip.

We (an Argentinian and myself) are leaving somewhere start of March from Belgium. West coast on to Capetown.

See you on the road?

wr, Bart

Cheers guys!
Happy this thread I've started is not dead and the info is shared as it should be.
All I did was to take a leap of faith as we all do when we embark on such an adventure. I did my homework at first and realized that at least on a bike it should be possible to find a way to cross without CpD. I just got stuck or ripped of in Egypt but still worth every penny.
Beth and Irish; I got my CpD through kamal fixer in Aswan. I tried to contact by my self the Egyptian club by no luck. Apparently the guy that came with my CpD was a club worker in Hurgada. He was wiling to drive to Aswan to deliver the CpD as the fuel is cheap and he was receiving a hefty part of the amount I paid. Why and how was my CpD issued by the emirate club will remain a mystery.
Take care all and keep the adventure alive! (Sry for the late reply but we are still traveling although Africa is deeply engraved in our hearts and hope to get back there sometime in the future)

Hey Mrwhite,

I'm planning a similar trip in Africa as yours was. Enter Egypt from Sudan and I wonder if I could by an entry visa at the border or not. Which border crossing did you use? I'm holding a Hungarian and a Canadian passports so I could use whichever. My bike is registered in Hungary. The issue is that if I get my Egyptian visa in Hungary it will expire by the time I get there.

Thanks for reply

Regards

Tibor

You can only enter Egypt from Sudan using the Ferry between Wadi Halfa and Aswan, and you can buy the visa on the same ferry, it costs something like 25 dollars. :)

Thanks much.

Have a good one.

Are there any recent experiences with the Sudan - Egypt road border?