Allegedly "Official" CdP map: Your experiences?
 

This map appeared at http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...al-south-70438 in a discussion about where you do/don't need a CdP. The poster alleges it’s "official", although he never stated the source.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-zxsW5WT8t6...rldMap2012.jpg

Other Hubbers presented the consensus that no CdP is required in the Americas. (the thread was about the Americas).

I believe it's inaccurate/wrong for Japan and the continent of Africa.

Traveling N to S through Africa, it can be done without: http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...0-tenere-64769 however if trying to enter RSA at an airport or sea-port it is mandatory: http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...oid-need-69788

Japan: at http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...t-carnet-65950 it says you can travel Sakahlin to Wakkanai without a CdP.

Quotes from the other thread include:

I believe it to be, at best, very misleading. What are your comments on the map?

Regarding Japan, I went Sakhalin->Hokkaido last summer and no carnet was required. The temp import document they gave me was completely acceptable when shipping out of Yokohama later on.

Also Malaysia does apparently not absolutely require it, at least at land borders. When crossing Singapore->Malaysia I had to force the customs guys to put down their card game and talk to me. And then all they said was go away. No papers filled in, and not for lack of trying. Haven't been to the Thai border yet but hear it is pretty much the same up there.

Sorry - i was not online - elsewhere i had answered your question:

The Source of the map is the TCS, our automobile club in switzerland.

This Map was Online till Februar 2013 - where it is replaced with a drop down menue for each country. Too bad, this overview was valuable.. It will soon be outdated - but actually it is valid.

You can do a triple-check if you want (links are here)
4x4tripping: Fahrzeug Formalitäten recherchieren...

General stuff about the carnet:
4x4tripping: Das Carnet de Passages en Douane (CPD)

Our Experiences:

During our transafrica we used the carnet in Angola (where it is not valid).
Without our querying we would had entered South Africa without carnet (what is not legal)

We had a small accident in SA, where the police ask after the car papers and the legalization of using them in SA. Good that we had the carnet.

So you can have luck and can drive at countrys who needs a carnet - but if you meet the wrong official - you can pickup some bad action too :-) There is no reason for trying cheating - when you just want to enjoy your ride, or?

The funny part of the other thread was, that we all wrote "you don't need a carnet in South america" Therefore this is common sense AND is also showed in the map - chris where is the point of discussion?

Surfy

My view is things are valuable if they are up to date/correct. Just because the Swiss automobile club produced it, doesn't make it valid, the same as if the UK Foreign and Commonwealth Office or the US Central Intelligence Agency or any other website claims things to be true/correct/accurate.

As proved on the other thread and post number 2, the information for Central and South America is wrong/misleading. Japan also, Africa also, Malaysia also.

I'm sure if you're stopped by a South African policeman and you can prove you've entered the country at a legitimate border post (stamp in passport and possession of TIP) you can legitimately claim that the Customs official at the border is correct and some admin clerk at the Swiss AA may have spilt some red/yellow ink on a piece of paper. So where's the cheating?

This discussion will, IMHO, also help to produce a definitive map, rather than the act of fiction in post number 1. Grant is looking to produce a Wiki/country profile soon, where a genuinely correct/updateable map would be a positive addition, I feel.

For information: You're very lucky to only be paying 220 dollars (or euros or swiss francs?) for a CdP for a car. In the UK you need to leave a guarantee/bond for 500% of the vehicle value to enter India, for example, where you legitimately require a CdP.

Rather than defending the inaccurate map you published, why don't you help by writing a list of countries where the Swiss AA map is factually correct and where it's wrong/misleading, just like Prisoner62113?

Nepal is obligatory apart from Indian plated vehicles.

Of course it's misleading, and always has been.
There is only one "official" source, the organization that administers the CdP
system worldwide, Alliance International de Tourisme (AIT):

Public - Carnet de Passages en Douane

Note that AIT has no posted worldwide map, and has (always) included
these caveat footnotes:
"1.This list may contain errors due to changes in national legislation.
2. In certain African countries, the CPD is not officially required, but is often used to facilitate temporary importation.
3. In Brazil, the CPD is not required for vehicles entering by land routes, but it is required for vehicles arriving by boat.
4. In these European countries, the CPD is required only for certain categories of vehicles. The CPD is not required in these countries for private cars."

The AIT (list of required) CPD countries relies on information sharing among the national auto clubs who are authorized to issue/ administer the CPD on behalf of AIT. The information shared in turn depends on (changes in) national legislation, and like everything else, on the actual practice of border/ customs authorities.

Both the Swiss auto club (TCH) and German auto club (ADAC) have attempted such maps, always with the caveat that they are not guaranteed, and "based on best available information," e.g.

ADAC Reise & Freizeit - Carnet de Passages

"The information has been compiled with great care. For completeness and accuracy, no warranty can be accepted. Please inquire contact the relevant embassy or consulate to establish if existing (Import) prohibitions and restrictions."

That's why there's the HUBB and a hundred other forums to crowd source updates, and to provide endless discussion of accuracy :funmeteryes:

When you just look what for experiences the Hubb Users had, then you can state soon that there is no carnet needed for africa (watching http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...tenere-64769-3).

But just because some did it without, is that correct?

This will mislead the reader i guess.

To a high percentage the guys on the boarders don`t know exactly what to do with us travelers and our papers. You can use the carnet where it is not allowed. Or not using it in these countrys where you have to.

Always is there the chance that you meet a guy, who know what is currently legal in his country.

That information our automobile clubs international has - are the most valid ones we can get.

Surfy

I think I saw a bit of a similar map in German ADAC´s webpage a few years ago. And if they just ask this information from their counterparts in South America, then sure there might be some countries, where it is officially “recommended”, even though not really needed. Note, that that´s not the same as “obligatory”.

Another problem with any map is that the situation is ever-changing – I went to Oz five years ago, and used the carnet, because I had one, but it was not mandatory to have it for Oz. Not too long after my trip it changed, and now it is mandatory.

Yeh, lots of fun :innocent:. No wonder they put these huge health warnings on stuff, when they print so much rubbish.

Summary so far is the map is inaccurate for the whole of the Americas, the whole of Africa, Japan, Malaysia and Nepal and correct for Australia.

In my travels I've found customs and immigration officers, including and particularly in Africa, to be well up on their rules and regulations. But hey ho, I know jack.

That situations change is reasonable and the way of the world and hence Wikis/country profiles can be updated accordingly. To blindly assume, like another poster on this thread, that just because others haven't followed the alleged "rules", they either cheated (bribed?) corrupt officials or hoodwinked stupid ones is quite arrogant/foolish, in my very humble opinion. Then again, deliberate repeating myself, I know jack.

another nail in the coffin of the useless map..

NZ is possible without CdP

Yes you can enter NZ without a Carnet, You ask for a "DEED OF UNDERTAKING" In respect of motor vehicles imported under concession 80 part 2 of the Tariff act 1988

http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...la-to-nz-63761

Now Isaac has finished his Africa-Roundtrip (at least the part in africa) - without a carnet.

http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...tenere-64769-2

He has ride a bike.

Is this valid for bikes and cars? That is not the only statement who implicate - that the handling between bikes and cars are different:


Surfy