Carnet nightmare, help anyone?
 

Hello all,

I'm planning a long distance trip by motorcycle beginning next year and I am writing to see if someone can help me with the Carnet de Passages en Douane.

I'm Portuguese and I spent the last few weeks trying to get my National Automobile Club allow me to do the carnet through ADAC or RAC. As usual they're asking a ridiculous amount of money and it would be a much better deal doing it through the German or British club. My problem is that both require that the Portuguese club has to issue written correspondence or an e-mail that states they have no objections giving them permission to issue the carnet. The reason for that is the FIA-rules and UN-conventions on carnet-issuing that state that the competence of carnet-issuing just lies in the hands of the National Automobile Club (in case there is one) of the country the vehicle is registered in. So other automobile clubs are not allowed to issue carnets for those vehicles without permission of the homeland automobile club, even if you're a EU resident

However someone in ADAC told me that they have issued carnets for other countries, too, and it has never been a big trouble. But the Portuguese club is refusing to do this, based on the following FIA rules.

Maybe someone here that has been through the same situation can help me with how they managed to go trough this inconvenience, of having to get the permission from their local club, or some legal ground to use as an exceptional reason. I already called FIA and that didn't help.

Thanks.

I guess you had checked if you really need the carnet before posting here.

The Carnet is not that expensive. Its is around 200-300 Euro depending if you are a Member or not. Than you have to deposit some money for your bike - but that you will get back at the end.

If you really plan an extended trip by car/bike, than that amount of money is nothing compared to fuel, visa and other costs most of us spend during their trip.

Did you have get in touch with the German ADAC by yourself? I read many blogs from travelers who obtain it by the ADAC as foreigner without hassle. Just describe to the adac that your local automobile club not even answer...

Surfy

Yes, unfortunately I'll most definitely need a Carnet. My plan is to ship my motorcycle registered in Portugal to Australia and then return to Europe through Southeast Asia and Central Asia. And several countries in the route I plan to follow require a Carnet, such as Australia, Indonesia, India, Pakistan and Iran.

Yes, my problem is not the cost of the Carnet it self but the bank guarantee. 300€ don't do much of a difference, as you say, but 6000€ do, and this is the money the Portuguese Club is asking me for.

I know there's a lot of people doing the Carnet through ADAC so I was hoping for that someone here that have been through a similar situation could help me with some advice about something I might do to make the Portuguese Club see that this is a common practice and that there's no reason for them to take FIA's advice so literally.

Anyway, thanks for your help Surfy.

My info is
The larger part of the 'problem' is Iran .. they want something like 400% of the value of the vehicle as duty ... thus the deposit of the carnet is so large. If you avoid Iran then the deposit goes down .. Unfortunately Iran is a good part of this trip - people and sights are good there, so avoiding it migh be good for $ but bad for experience.

The carnet is too painful if you drive by an expensive car.. Specially if you start thinking about the risk you get. Thats soon like "all in" in a Texas Hold`em game. With the carnet you sign at the end that you will pay all costs the automobile club has to pay.

400% of the value the country call for your "vehicle". Not the amount who the local automobile club had accepted.. Could be a nice boost. But fortunately we don't find samples in the internet where the people had to pay the full bill at the end.

If the bank guarantee is that much, maybe a normal Credit is the way to go? The pay tax should be pretty low at the moment.

I read from swiss guys who got their carnet at germany, because the swiss one was too expensive (because they use another car-value).

Therefore there should be a way :-) Hope someone else could help you with personal experience about.

Surfy

Hi JoaoPCF

I'm not sure if I can offer you any practical advice, but I have some experience with obtaining carnets issued by a 'foreign' motoring authority.

Basically, I own a New Zealand-registered motorcycle and I am now travelling on my third carnet. The first one was issued by NZAA (New Zealand Automobile Association); the last two have been issued by the RAC (UK's Royal Automobile Association).

Earlier this year I also approached the ADAC in Germany and asked if they would issue a carnet for my NZ-registered bike, but that enquiry very quickly took me down a blind alley. In short, I got no joy whatsoever from the ADAC.

I won't go into the whole story here as it's far too lengthy - but please do not hesitate to contact me here on your thread, or by PM or e-mail if you want to know about my experience on this issue.

Regards

Keith
(British citizen)

Hi Keith,

First of all congratulations for your amazing trip. I found lots of useful information in your website.

What went wrong with ADAC? They've been nothing but helpful with me, but in case that doesn't work I might have a chance of getting the Carnet through RAC, I just need to get it approved. In case they do the Portuguese Club won't stand in their way.

My only fear is if the insurance company refuses me the indemnity, since I'm not an UK citizen. In the end the guarantee would be more or less the same as ADAC (with part of it of course not being refundable).

Joao,

Years ago I had an issue to get the deposit back from Touring Club Switzerland. I contacted directly FIA. The person in charge was called Deborah Smith. She was extremely helpful and kind. Her email was dsmith (at) fia dot com

If she's still there (I hope she is, I insist, she was just GREAT), she may help you, since they tell the Associations how to apply the rules of CdP, as they clarified the case to TCS.

You may try with RACE Spain, I do not know the calculations they make, but the deposit is SO LOW even for Iran. Check with them, I'm sure you may manage well with Spanish language if you are Portuguese. If you need help, I may help you (I'm Spanish).

Good luck and happy travels,

Esteban

Sorry if you have already covered this avenue but why not try going through the Australian body if you are located in Sydney?

By the looks of above post it seems to be possible to obtain form a body in a 3rd country.

With regards to the indemnity, whilst some countries have the high %, what you do instead is pay a 'policy' which is basically an annual premium which takes the responsibility upon the motoring body to chase you up for the full amount should anything go wrong.

I got extremely helpful information from the person below

Taleah Mulder | International Driving Permit
NRMA Travel
9A York Street
Sydney NSW 2000
Phone: 1300 053 052
Fax: (02) 8741 6506
Email: taleah.mulder@nrmatravel.com.au

For a vehicle located/registered in Portugal? Think you'll have the same problems as with the RAC/ADC...

Unfortunately for you: it is as it is. The rules are clear: if the portugese automobile federation issues cdp's you can't apply at ADAC. I got my cdp from ADAC because the dutch automobile federation ANWB outsourced the carnet business to ADAC. The cdp of ADAC will not be cheaper than the portugese cdp because the deposit is only depended of the value of your bike. So, what you can do is to mention a value as low as possible. The value is seldom checked. I got my ADAC cdp, which includes Iran, for a value of 1500 € and had to deposit 3000 €.

Mathew

Sorry, I didn't think about that. I guess the catch is that it can be issued in a 3rd country only if the bike is already there?

That said, i would still talk to the staff in the Australian office, perhaps they could at least help with some extra information if the OP has been hitting dead ends so far.

Warin is right, for a motorcycle registered in Portugal I would have the same problem with the Australian Association. And my problem is that I really wanted to take this particular bike, since it has been with me for years, I know everything about it and I already spent thousands of dollars in it. But if I can't solve this thing I'll have no other alternative than to buy a new bike in Australia.

Thanks for the tip Esteban. I'll try that and maybe someone in FIA with some common sense might help me. Que te vaya bien.

If you going to ship the bike to Australia anyway ..

A possibility? This might be worth investigating...

Ship + pay the import duties to Australia (over 10% of the value of the vehicle .. )
Register it in Australia .. need to do the regs on that - if the bike is over a certain age then there is no problem with ADR requirements .. think they came in in 1975? But there may be an age limit of ?20? years -- if it is older than that they don't bother?

Then get the Carnet in Australia..

When you leave Australia you should get the import duties back.
Once you get to Portugal you should have the Carnet signed off and be able to send the document back to Australia and get most of the money back from the Carnet.

But do check all this first before taking my pondering here as truth.

Before you start shipping .. do get all the paper work done for importation , and do get all the registration details done FIRST before shipping.