Dangerous Goods Declaration - Fuel system flush/purge
 

Hi

Looking into air freight from Sydney to USA, and one shipper has said that the fuels system needs to be flushed and purged with 'White Spirit' (turpentine)

and also a letter stating to this effect needs to be written and provided to the airline. (also battery disconnected etc)


I also read another caveat that the airline has stated:

"If there is any odour of fuel at all then will will refuse the cargo"


has anyone done this before to get around the dangerous goods certification and get a cheaper freight cost?

Cheers,
mitch

It's a new one on me, haven't heard of this before!

If it works, fantastic! Every airline and country will have different rules, but it's certainly worth checking into.

When you have done the shipment, PLEASE enter it into our shipping database so we have a permanent record to help everyone!

Shipments by Travellers | Horizons Unlimited

My experience with a colman fuel stove.. if you don't want it to smell of fuel...

1) Drain out all fuel.

2) Run it .. there will still be a bit of fuel in jets, feeder tubes... just run it untill it runs out.

3) Then put in a high evaporative fuel to flush.

4) Then drain that out.

5) Air .. to get rid of the smell.

I found after step two that I could not smell fuel. I just aired it for a day from there and flew.

I tried the official instructions .. drained out fuel, replaced with high evaporative fuel to flush, drained that .. and I could still smell fuel after one weeks airing.

Hi

Normally for air freight bikes not needs to be flushed and purged as always the airlines will consider a used motorbike as dangerous goods, even without any fuel, oil, coolant brake fluids, and battery. The dangerous goods certificates need to be made by your shipper. If your shipper doesn’t know it is probably because he never have made a traveller bike, scape and look for the right people or you can find later a not nice surprise.

Bikes could flight with just some small fuel on the tanks, all the liquids in their reservoirs, but not others liquids flammables or not, gas or sprays separated from the bikes on panniers or bags. Battery should be disconnected and tires a bit deflated.
Only few travellers have done it as not dangerous goods and was by a mistake of airlines. At least that’s what I know about that isn’t a little…

Ride Safe, Ride Far & Regards

Things must have changed. Last time I flew with my bike I actually rode it (with engine running) down the inside of the fuselage and parked it at the end (in the section where the fuselage tapers towards the fin - it was a narrow body jet.).

I then walked back out (tank pretty much full and battery connected) they filled the plane with cargo and I got a free ride in the jockey seat.

Biggest challenge was on the scissor lift as they hoisted me (astride the bike) up into the plane. The base of the scissor lift is just rollers and when the lift jerked the bike rolled forward and I almost plunged 3m off the edge - still don't know how I survived that?

I've been trying to organise shipping from Melbourne to Bangkok recently and get different requirements from different shipping agents...

Has anyone from Australia dealt directly with Qantas Freight? I heard you can get a DG certificate from a third party, ride to the depot then disconnect the battery and the strap to a pallet to ship? Other agents say to either purge the fuel system, drain oil, etc, and crate the bike... But this sounds like a pain!

Gentlemen:

There is no need for either shippers (we owners), shipping agents (the folks who receive the shipment) or air carriers (the airlines that carry the bike) to speculate or guess at what the requirements for shipping a motorcycle by air are.

Everything has been set out in great detail in the International Air Transport Association (IATA) Dangerous Goods Regulations (DGR) handbook, which is the official guidebook for shipping dangerous goods (DGs) by air.

Motorcycles are classed as "Vehicles, Flammable Liquid Powered". This is UN classification 3166. Precise instructions for how the vehicle must be configured for shipping can be found in Packing Instruction 900, which explains the rules for shipping UN 3166 classified objects.

Every shipping agent and every air carrier is required by law to have a copy of the current year's version of the IATA DGR handbook on hand at the location where shipments are accepted. A new version of the DGR book is issued every year and takes effect Jan 1 of each year.

10 years ago, I made a post here on the HUBB that explained this process in detail, including pictures of the then current (2006) DGR for shipping motorcycles. It is possible that either the rules governing UN 3166 shipments or the packing instructions may have changed slightly since then, so, don't rely on my 10 year old post. But it is highly unlikely that the rules or packing instructions have changed substantially since 2006.

Here's a link to my post from 2006: 2006 Rules for shipping motorcycles by air freight. After you have read it, go visit your shipping agent or the cargo department of your air carrier, and ask to look at their 2016 DGR book. Then look up UN 3166 and packing instruction 900, and "only read the black ink" - in other words, don't read any invisible ink, don't listen to any old wives' tales, just read the rules that are written in the DGR book, because they are all that matter.

Individual countries and/or individual air carriers may impose more strenuous regulations on any form of DG shipments, however, when this is done, the exceptions by country and by carrier are printed in the 'variations' list in the back of the DGR book. Again, only read the black ink, don't try and read the invisible ink and don't attach any credibility to yada-yada you hear from uninformed persons.

Michael
(Retired Aircraft Pilot & DGR instructor who has shipped his ST1100 by air many times).

Yep that's right. We just dropped our bikes off at a Sydney cargo company. We had to drain the tanks and fuel lines and carbs, and then had to flush the whole thing with turpentine. There was to be no odours of fuel at all. Only took about 10 mins and two purges. Plus the whole disconnect the battery thing

That being the case, what happened was that your cargo acceptance agent imposed, of their own accord, a much higher standard than is required by law.

The current issue of the DGR book does not list any state or air carrier variations for Australia.

Michael

Thanks for all of the responses everyone.

We were thrown a few other curve ball questions by this particular shipper, and decided to stick with sea freight (what we know).

Quite shocked at the amount shipping from Sydney to Anchorage.

- roughly 3 times the cost of shipping Sydney - Vladivostok!

It also apparently costs twice as much to ship from Seattle to Anchorage than it does to ship across the entire Pacific Ocean :)

thanks everyone.

Cheers,
Mitch

Hi Mitch:

For the most part, that pricing anomaly is a consequence of the Jones Act, a piece of American legislation that requires that anything shipped by sea between two points in the USA must be carried on US built ships staffed by US citizens and operated by US companies.

Michael

Ok..as I am in Brazil finishing my S.American tour and hoping to air lift my bike back to Europe..already hawing problem with shipping agent as they are not familiar with DG procedure, one even suggested that I drain oil from my engine.
In next couple off days all haw some more info ..so going to post here...

Ride safe .............kawazoki

If you plan to ship by air, ask the shipping agent to show you a copy of their 2016 edition of the IATA Dangerous Goods Regulations handbook. Then look at the rules for UN Class 3166, and then look in the back of the book at Packing Instruction 900, then look at the very back of the book to see if the two countries at either end of your shipment (country of origin and destination country) have declared any differences. Finally, look to see if the air carrier you plan to use has declared any differences.

That's all there is to it. Anything else they tell you that is not written down in the DGR book is just hot air and/or BS.

Michael

IATA DGR Book (current edition is 57)
http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/a...psk0mdidrs.jpg

Not all off them haw this book ..as they need to spend whupping 309 US
for this...:)

Ride safe kawazoki

If they don't have the book then they don't know what to do. So they may want to reduce their risk (never mind your costs or time) and have you flush all fluids (fuel, oils (including suspension, brake), and remove any compressed gas (rear shock are often pressurised these days)...
If you tell them that you don't need to do that to comply with DGR UN Class 3166 .. again they won't know. Is there another agent .. possibly some $300 more expensive .. that can actually do the job to the regulations rather than what they think?

By law, any organization that accepts cargo for transport by air not only must have a copy of this book on hand at the cargo acceptance point, but every single employee who accepts cargo for shipment by air must be trained on how to use the book.

So, if you are dealing with a person (perhaps a consolidator, or a third party way down the line who is far removed from the actual air carrier) who does not have a copy of this book handy - or in electronic format on their computer - and/or does not know how to use it, drop them like a hot rock and go find someone who does know what they are doing.

Michael

When I was still planning on airshipping the bike from Sydney to Vancouver my shipper said that taping off the battery terminals and emptying the tank would do. Not sure about the flushing as I've postponed going to North America.

See post #16 above. It's not necessary to tape off battery terminals, or to empty or flush the fuel tank. The rules are contained in packing instruction 900 in the DGR book. Whatever your shipping agent told you is just hearsay that he probably got from his grandmother or a friend of a friend of a friend who read it on the internet.

If you want to ship from Sidney to Vancouver by Air Canada, go to Air Canada's web-page where they fully explain the process for shipping motorcycles. Here's a direct link to a PDF Air Canada produces to provide motorcycle shippers with correct guidance about how to prepare the motorcycle for air shipment:

Air Canada - Fly Your Bike.

Note that Air Canada's policies exactly follow the rules set out in the DGR book packing instruction 900.

Michael

PS: That Air Canada document only mentions a few destinations (not including Australia) because Air Canada only offers special low prices for motorcycle shipping - basically a summer sale - to a few destinations. They will fly motos between any two points that Air Canada serves (e.g. Vancouver - Sidney or Vancouver - Brisbane), but sale prices don't apply to those other destinations.

Could it be that that book merely specifies the minimum preparation required to comply with international DG requirements but there is nothing to stop any agent further removed from the actual shipping company from imposing more stringent requirements. Whether this is because of ignorance or excessive caution is irrelevant so if you don't like it then just find another agent.

Hi Tony:

I don't think it is correct to say that the DG regulations specify the 'minimum' preparation required - it would be more appropriate to say that the rules specify the necessary and appropriate preparation required. In other words, it is unlikely that any further preparation would yield a higher level of safety.

Dangerous Goods Regulations (DGRs) are put together by a multidisciplinary international team that consists of specialists at the International Air Transport Association (IATA), the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO), the United Nations, as well as representatives from various airlines and the regulators from various nations. The whole objective of DGRs is to present a consistent, easily understood set of guidelines to shippers, cargo acceptance personnel, and air carriers in all countries of the world.

Individual air carriers and individual nations have the option of publishing variations to the DGR that are more onerous than what is set out in the book, however, it is relatively uncommon for carriers or nations to publish variations. When variations are published, they usually consist simply of prohibitions - for example, ABC Airlines will not accept certain commodities for shipment, period, or carriers in such-and-such a country are prohibited by their regulator from accepting certain commodities for shipment.

What concerns me - and what pisses me off the most - is that cargo acceptance agents who spew uneducated and incorrect information such as "you have to disconnect the battery" or "you have to flush the fuel tank" are not saying these things out of an abundance of caution, they're saying these things because they are ignorant about how to properly research the regulations governing shipment of DGs, and this presents a huge hazard to the industry.

A cargo acceptance agent who is properly educated (and, as I mentioned earlier, cargo acceptance agents must, by law, be properly trained on how to use the DGR book) will not spout nonsense off the top of their head. Instead, they will determine what classification the shipment belongs to, and what packing instruction applies to that classification. Then, they will make sure that the packing instruction is complied with. They will "read the black ink" in the DGR manual.

A cargo acceptance agent who does not know how to follow the international rules and practices set out in the DGRs, who does not know how to look things up in the book (or who is too lazy to look things up in the book) and instead tries to rely on their own 'abundance of caution' is in fact a danger to shippers, air carriers, and passengers.

Ignorant cargo acceptance agents greatly annoy me, not simply because I spent decades teaching DGRs to pilots, shippers, and cargo acceptance agents, and not just because I spent years working as the Aviation Safety Manager of a large aircraft manufacturer, but because I have personally experienced significant dangers on aircraft I have commanded because some ignorant or lazy cargo acceptance agent has loaded prohibited or improperly packaged or improperly documented DGs onto aircraft I have commanded.

Michael

Just to ad couple off thinks as I shipped (Lufthansa cargo ) my motorcycle from Rio de Jainero ,Brazil to Frankfurt ,Germany ..local company ( IMRA ) provided DG certificate, cost 250 Rials .. bike head to be strapped on the pallet in my case was wooden and it has to be fumigated wood or stamped which prufe the same,battery disconnected,fuel at minimum and tyers deflated..not all the way. On Air Canada rules is no personal belongings on the bike..all my personal belongings ..helmet,boots,
sleeping bag,tent...soft panniers,tank bag..was on and I walked to passenger terminal with my backpack only.

Ride safe.......kawazoki

We just freighted our bikes to San Francisco via Qantas as roll on roll off. Had a DRG certificate so we could leave a quarter of a tank of fuel on board. Disconnect the battery was the only requirement. $2800 for both bikes, so relatively cheap, no freight forwarders involved.
Simon

About the Dangerous Goods (DG) declaration...

In the two posts directly above, Simon and kawazoki have referred to a 'DG certificate'. Before any further confusion arises about this subject, I want to explain exactly what a Dangerous Good Declaration (not 'certificate') is.

First of all, it's not some kind of inspection or authorization of any kind. It is nothing more than a declaration (a statement, a description) that states exactly what the shipment consists of, how the shipment is classified, and what packing instruction has been followed to enable the shipment to be safely transported by aircraft.

No-one should ever have to pay money to have a Dangerous Goods Declaration filled out. You can do it yourself in 5 minutes, it is not at all difficult.

The problem - I would go so far as to call it a scam - that gives rise to people paying to have the DG declaration filled out arises from a very sensible rule in the Dangerous Goods Regulations (DGRs) that states that the air carrier or the air carrier's cargo acceptance agent (which includes brokers, freight forwarders, etc.) is not permitted to fill out the DG declaration themselves - the shipper (meaning, the person who is shipping the motorcycle, which in our case means the person who owns the motorcycle) must fill out the DG declaration themselves.

This rule makes sense, because in the case of DGs in general (for example, chemicals packed in boxes), only the shipper knows what's inside the box. Although that's not the case with motorcycles - it's pretty easy to tell by looking that the object is a motorcycle - the rule applies to all DG shipments.

So, what to do?

Simple. Ask the cargo acceptance agent to give you a blank DG declaration form. Then, fill the form out EXACTLY as I have explained (10 years ago) at this post: Rules for shipping motorcycles by air freight. See post #2 in that discussion, which includes a photo of a correctly completed DG declaration for a motorcycle.

Although the cargo acceptance agent is forbidden from filling in the declaration for you, it is perfectly OK for the cargo acceptance agent to assist you to fill out the declaration yourself, by answering any questions you may have and then reviewing the completed declaration to confirm that you have correctly completed it. In fact, they are required by law to inspect your completed DG declaration and make sure it is properly filled out before they accept your shipment.

Below is a photo of a DG declaration for a motorcycle (happens to be my motorcycle). As you can see, it's not rocket science to complete this form, and there is no reason at all that anyone should have to pay money to have another person complete the form.

Michael

Example of a DG declaration for a motorcycle
http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/a...psaj9jkcad.jpg

Hi Micheal,

I'd love to use your information that you have generously provided as I am so much difficulty trying to fly my bike from BNE to Denpasar but I can zoom on any of you document links that you have provided.
I keep ringing CT freight here in Brisbane and they are less than helpful. They tell me they want a purge declaration and I cant find any other company willing to help me that doesnt to bullshit me.
Any suggestions from anyone?
Thanks