Horizons Unlimited - The HUBB - fake carnet? cheaper loosing vehicle than paying for a real one?

Horizons Unlimited - The HUBB (https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/)

- Trip Paperwork (https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/trip-paperwork/)

- - fake carnet? cheaper loosing vehicle than paying for a real one? (https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/trip-paperwork/fake-carnet-cheaper-loosing-vehicle-73964)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris (Post 449686)

Pic taken by me in 1999 of Cairo, Egypt customs yard of imported cars whose papers (Fake carnets?) weren't in order. Probably still there...

http://www.thebrightstuff.com/picsFo...toms_Cairo.jpg

I wonder if Shukri the bloke who does (brass) rubbings of the chassis numbers is still working there? :innocent:

Ha ha, your going to see my bike there soon then :P

Quote:

Originally Posted by will-dakar (Post 450226)

Ha ha, your going to see my bike there soon then :P

If it ends up there, plant some razor blades in the end of the silencer.... :funmeteryes:

One or more of the guards p!ssed in my bike's exhaust while it was parked inside this guarded compound over night during the (5 day) process of getting it through Customs so it could be airfreighted to Addis Ababa (at the time I couldn't get a Sudan visa).

Another first for my bike: Golden shower up the ar$e by a "pleasant Egytian gentleman" (Racist word and expletive edited doh).

My Carnet was in order.

Chapter 5 The Big Trip

:offtopic:

Quote:

Originally Posted by will-dakar (Post 449496)

Let me start off by saying I would never do this and would and ever promote anyone doing this,

Looking at the costs of a real carnet in the UK via the rip off merchants that are the RAC, woulnt it be easier and cheaper just to fake a carnet?

Put it this way, at 800% for just an Egypt carnet i would loose less money if I was cought out and them taking my vehicle than actually getting a real carnet in the 1st place.

Very basic calculation of Egypt at 800%

£1000 (minimum) vehicle value = £8000 carnet
50% back on returning = total cost of £4000

If I got cought and lost my £1000 vehicle im still up £3000, and even if they fine me there own massive import duty of 240%, im still saving £600

When I received my last one years ago I got back 95% of the cost which was fine. I also remember the documents looking so basic. I'm a graphic designer and I recon I could make a full document in a matter of hours.

Or,a bit more legal....ish, just privately import your vehicle into each country and it will still be cheaper than a carnet.

Its only a silly idea and i have probaby got it wrong anyway, but it did cross my mind

Hi,

based on the RAC documentation in here:

http://www.rac.co.uk/pdfs/driving-ab...et-prices.aspx

The actual cost of getting the CdP with RAC for you would be:

242.4 £

Here is the calculation:

Highest risk country (Egypt) - 800%
Bike value - 1000 £
6% Insurance Premium Tax - 6%
Premium % - 10% (you pay only 10% of the risk value, and 50% of this amount will be returned)
25 pages CdP - 200 £
RAC Deposit (refund) - 350 £

TOTAL to pay: 634.8 £ (1000*8*1.06*0.1 + 200 + 350)
Money Back: 392.4 £ (350 + 1000*8*1.06*0.1*0.5)
Actual cost: 242.4 £

I think that's not too bad :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by hebbo (Post 450477)

Unfortunately they have stopped the 10% premium due to it know being high risk for them as apparently only 20% of all vehicles are returned.
so you have to pay the full 100% of the insurance premium, do for my £1000 bike =£8000 then 50% back on return.

Here's a link to someone who has just tried getting a carnet and has looked into in better than me

http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...-rip-off-54541

Under the old RAC way I used a bank guarantee for 3 carnets in a row.

£70 a year bank guarantee fee and the cost of the 25 page carnet (£2xx?). Simple and cheap enough, wouldn't have paid more.

Talk of paying hundreds and hundreds of pounds is just a plain rip off, even if non travellers have been ripping off the system.

Quote:

Originally Posted by will-dakar (Post 455129)

Nope, that doesn’t make sense.

You are still only required to pay 10% (plus IPT) of the indemnity amount as an insurance premium, 50% of which is refundable on return of the correctly discharged Carnet to the RAC. [Link]: See this up-to-date information sheet.

If you had to pay 100% of the indemnity amount then there would be no element of insurance 'risk'. It would, in fact, be almost indistinguishable to a full security deposit (an option which is no longer available with the RAC).

If you default - i.e. sell or abandon your vehicle abroad - then, and only then, will the insurer attempt to recover from you the amount they are obliged to pay-out (on your behalf) to the overseas customs authority.

The exception is when your vehicle is stolen. A Carnet does not cover the duties and taxes payable in the event of loss or theft of a vehicle abroad.
.

^ I agree with Keith above.

I don't know if it is different for independents, but what Keith writes is applicable for our overland truck. But we do use it in West Africa as an overland operator (ie commercial). This was the case as of 3 month ago when we renewed our CDP.

I think Keith and Hebbo are correct, but I think Hebbo's maths are a little out.

Cost of Bike £1000
Security rate for Egypt (800% of bike) = £8000
Insurance Premium (10% of security rate) = £800 (50% refunded)
Insurance Premium Tax (6% of Insurance Premium) = £48
25 pages CdP - £200
RAC Deposit (refund) - £350

Payable upfront £1398
Refunded £750

Actual Cost £648

Quote:

Originally Posted by lao_li (Post 455279)

This is not europa in Africa you can solve most of the problems with a little money but as long as the boarder people dont even know how to stam a carned the right way (not the exit stamp first) i have no worrys using a faked one. I had no problems with it at all...

It is very relaxing when you know that everything is all right. The Paperwork is done and done the right way, your equipment is legal, your car is legal, you carry all the stuff other had to pay bills without (two extinguisher at sample for cars in some countrys).

Dont give you an attack surface who officals can use to start their game.

Quote:

as long as the boarder people dont even know how to stam a carned the right way

But thats too true. We use the carnet in Angola (where it is NOT accepted), because the border guy don`t know about. And we mostly had to help to handle the carnet the right way.

I guess that you can do an africa roundtrip with an fake carnet. When you stay relaxed in any case.

But I would alway prefere to know, that everything is all right. Specially when the caret costs are just arround 240 USD :rolleyes2:

Risking much for less money dont looks like a good deal to me. Also when it is a pain to optain a carnet in some countrys.

Surfy