fake carnet? cheaper loosing vehicle than paying for a real one?
 

Let me start off by saying I would never do this and would and ever promote anyone doing this,

Looking at the costs of a real carnet in the UK via the rip off merchants that are the RAC, woulnt it be easier and cheaper just to fake a carnet?

Put it this way, at 800% for just an Egypt carnet i would loose less money if I was cought out and them taking my vehicle than actually getting a real carnet in the 1st place.

Very basic calculation of Egypt at 800%

£1000 (minimum) vehicle value = £8000 carnet
50% back on returning = total cost of £4000

If I got cought and lost my £1000 vehicle im still up £3000, and even if they fine me there own massive import duty of 240%, im still saving £600

When I received my last one years ago I got back 95% of the cost which was fine. I also remember the documents looking so basic. I'm a graphic designer and I recon I could make a full document in a matter of hours.

Or,a bit more legal....ish, just privately import your vehicle into each country and it will still be cheaper than a carnet.

Its only a silly idea and i have probaby got it wrong anyway, but it did cross my mind

I´m not sure if those numbers are adding up.

I don´t know about RAC, but I had a carnet issued by the Finnish automobile association 6 years ago.It cost me about 250 euros, and then I also had to put up a deposit of 5000 euros (the bike´s value was maybe 8000 euros at the time, and my carnet was valid for Iran, Pakistan, India & Indonesia, and possibly other countries but cannot remember ). After I had finished the trip, and kept my carnet ´clean´ (= had all entry & exit stamps from all carnet countries) and the bike had returned home, I got the whole deposit back.

Need someone from UK to verify your costs. I've checked on getting mine for my German bike from the ADAC, I will have to pay for the carnet and leave a deposit which is returned in full

sent from my thingy, using whatchamacallit

If you're caught with a fake carnet, in addition to losing your bike, you might also get free board and lodge in a jail for a little (or long?) while. Or you might not.

Might be worth looking up carnet requiring countries' attitudes to attempting to defraud the State.

It varies with the issuing club. The French Automobile Club did not make any loadings for Iran or Egypt on my carnet :thumbup1:
I valued the bike at €1000 :innocent:. Cost me about €300 for the carnet. Deposited €3k with the auto club which was returned to me.

You are being stiffed because its RAC Limited not the Royal Automobile Club. Its a business.

Here is a link to another thread from HU about the UK costs,
http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...-rip-off-54541

If I get my Finnish girlfriend to apply from over there and have a Finnish vehicle then yes it soul cost next to nothing and worth it. Unfortunately here in the UK these are some of our prices,
Egypt = 800%
Iran, Pakistan, Saudi Arabi and most others = 500%
Its such an annoying scam by the RAC. If we in UK apply straight to ADAC then we are told we have to do it via the RAC :(

Hi,
Doing it properly through the RAC last year i didn't have anything like the 8000 quid needed for a deposit (1000 pound vehicle with Egypt on the carnet) so used the insurance policy option.
Paid about 1600 quid upfront and got about 700 back at the end.
It's still a chunk of money, but nowhere near the 4000 mentioned earlier.

Happy travels
Sam

Unfortunately the Finnish AA has not issued carnets for about 3-4 years now. Everyone here must apply from Motormannen (Swedish AA). I have zero info about them.

But if I were you, I´d still try to ask nicely, if there is any chance to get the German ADAC to help you out.

Yeah that's what I did before but the RAC have put a stop to the insurace indemnity option so know you have to pay up in full.

BTW, I would think very carefully about faking official documents, and first find out, how comfortable the local jails are, because if you do get caught, there is a high possibility that you end up doing some time in them. I'm sure some have fantastic experiences faking stuff, but I'd still advice to remember that if you decide to go that route. Just my 0.02.

From the RAC site ...

Previously the RAC offered three ways of securing this risk – insurance indemnity, full cash deposit and bank guarantee.

Following a business review at the beginning of 2013 a decision was made to only offer insurance indemnity as security for CPDs due to the risk factors of the other options.

The bank guarantee was withdrawn because of low take-up, administration difficulties and legal requirements which vary from bank to bank. As, on average, only 4% of CPDs issued each year were secured by a bank guarantee, the RAC felt it was no longer economical to offer this as a security option.

Yep, but its only UK that have done this and as RAC don't run the carnet's so they should not be allowed to do this.
They stopped it because 'apparently' over 75% of all the vehicles isued with carnets have never returned, I.e people from middle east buying them here and taking them back to there own countries to sell illegally. I can imagine a few but surely not over 75%.
If they were that worried they should just put a clause in the carnet saying if your not originaly from the country or have only been here for 10 years or less then you should not be issued with carnets. God i sound racest :(

Pic taken by me in 1999 of Cairo, Egypt customs yard of imported cars whose papers (Fake carnets?) weren't in order. Probably still there...

http://www.thebrightstuff.com/picsFo...toms_Cairo.jpg

I wonder if Shukri the bloke who does (brass) rubbings of the chassis numbers is still working there? :innocent:

I don't think it works like that 800% £8000 carnet mate. My bike was valued at £2200.. carnet cost £1700 (August 2013 with 500% for a few countries) with insurance indemnity, will get £900 back once I return the vehicle. I hope it doesn't cost as much to renew as I will need to in August, as I want to keep the bike in Oz for a bit. Also with bank deposit option, for me it would be daft to tie up that much money... (if my bike was worth quite a bit more)

I actually made money with the Carnet.
Paid $15k in USD exchanged to CAD. Two years later due to change exchange rate got $16.5k back.

Ha ha, your going to see my bike there soon then :P

If it ends up there, plant some razor blades in the end of the silencer.... :funmeteryes:

One or more of the guards p!ssed in my bike's exhaust while it was parked inside this guarded compound over night during the (5 day) process of getting it through Customs so it could be airfreighted to Addis Ababa (at the time I couldn't get a Sudan visa).

Another first for my bike: Golden shower up the ar$e by a "pleasant Egytian gentleman" (Racist word and expletive edited doh).


My Carnet was in order.

Chapter 5 The Big Trip

:offtopic:

Hi,

based on the RAC documentation in here:

http://www.rac.co.uk/pdfs/driving-ab...et-prices.aspx

The actual cost of getting the CdP with RAC for you would be:

242.4 £



Here is the calculation:

Highest risk country (Egypt) - 800%
Bike value - 1000 £
6% Insurance Premium Tax - 6%
Premium % - 10% (you pay only 10% of the risk value, and 50% of this amount will be returned)
25 pages CdP - 200 £
RAC Deposit (refund) - 350 £


TOTAL to pay: 634.8 £ (1000*8*1.06*0.1 + 200 + 350)
Money Back: 392.4 £ (350 + 1000*8*1.06*0.1*0.5)
Actual cost: 242.4 £

I think that's not too bad :)

Unfortunately they have stopped the 10% premium due to it know being high risk for them as apparently only 20% of all vehicles are returned.
so you have to pay the full 100% of the insurance premium, do for my £1000 bike =£8000 then 50% back on return.

Here's a link to someone who has just tried getting a carnet and has looked into in better than me

http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...-rip-off-54541

Under the old RAC way I used a bank guarantee for 3 carnets in a row.

£70 a year bank guarantee fee and the cost of the 25 page carnet (£2xx?). Simple and cheap enough, wouldn't have paid more.

Talk of paying hundreds and hundreds of pounds is just a plain rip off, even if non travellers have been ripping off the system.

Nope, that doesn’t make sense.

You are still only required to pay 10% (plus IPT) of the indemnity amount as an insurance premium, 50% of which is refundable on return of the correctly discharged Carnet to the RAC. [Link]: See this up-to-date information sheet.

If you had to pay 100% of the indemnity amount then there would be no element of insurance 'risk'. It would, in fact, be almost indistinguishable to a full security deposit (an option which is no longer available with the RAC).

If you default - i.e. sell or abandon your vehicle abroad - then, and only then, will the insurer attempt to recover from you the amount they are obliged to pay-out (on your behalf) to the overseas customs authority.

The exception is when your vehicle is stolen. A Carnet does not cover the duties and taxes payable in the event of loss or theft of a vehicle abroad.
.

^ I agree with Keith above.

I don't know if it is different for independents, but what Keith writes is applicable for our overland truck. But we do use it in West Africa as an overland operator (ie commercial). This was the case as of 3 month ago when we renewed our CDP.

I think Keith and Hebbo are correct, but I think Hebbo's maths are a little out.

Cost of Bike £1000
Security rate for Egypt (800% of bike) = £8000
Insurance Premium (10% of security rate) = £800 (50% refunded)
Insurance Premium Tax (6% of Insurance Premium) = £48
25 pages CdP - £200
RAC Deposit (refund) - £350

Payable upfront £1398
Refunded £750

Actual Cost £648

It is very relaxing when you know that everything is all right. The Paperwork is done and done the right way, your equipment is legal, your car is legal, you carry all the stuff other had to pay bills without (two extinguisher at sample for cars in some countrys).

Dont give you an attack surface who officals can use to start their game.

But thats too true. We use the carnet in Angola (where it is NOT accepted), because the border guy don`t know about. And we mostly had to help to handle the carnet the right way.

I guess that you can do an africa roundtrip with an fake carnet. When you stay relaxed in any case.

But I would alway prefere to know, that everything is all right. Specially when the caret costs are just arround 240 USD :rolleyes2:

Risking much for less money dont looks like a good deal to me. Also when it is a pain to optain a carnet in some countrys.

Surfy