|
Foreigner buying a motorcycle in Europe
Simple title - f''king nightmare to achieve.
Well the buying was easy, the registration/insurance/plates etc was a total mind f*ck. But good news - there is a way. My suggestions below: You may find cheaper, simpler, better alternatives that suit your specific needs. Be prepared for a TON of leg work, web searching, language translation, impossible catch 22 loops and/or thorough wallet cleansing. Or.... 1. Find your bike in Germany. Not the Netherlands, France, Spain, Switzerland etc. I chose to buy privately - know what I wanted, know bikes well 2. Negotiate with your seller an appropriate price. A good document is produced by the ADAC - Kaufvertrag für den privaten Verkauf eines gebrauchten Motorrades (contract for the private sale of a motorcycle) 3. Pay and take possession of the bike. The seller should give you a copy of your signed contractual agreement (which has vehicle details like VIN, TÜV expiry date - vehicle roadworthy inspection, milage, power, known defects), hand over title documents (Zulassungsbescheinigung Teil I & II), TÜV report and any other documentation like approval for any non-stock modifications like windscreen, tyre change from stock brand, power restriction. This is where things may get a little tricky. The seller will most likely cancel and remove the current license plates at this point. Which makes things tricky to move the bike unless you have a trailer or van - until you get plates/insurance/title documents (Zulassungsbescheinigung Teil I & II) in your name. 4. Visit Cargo - a company specialising in documentation/export of vehicles in Germany and Holland. I found an office in Apeldoorn (Netherlands). Give them the following ORIGINAL documents (they will make a copy for you, until new documents in your name are obtained) a) Zulassungsbescheinigung Teil I & II - the title documents in the seller's name. b) TÜV report c) Photocopy of your passport details (don't need to part from your important little booklet!) d) An address where the vehicle will be registered to. 5. In 24-48 hours they will have the title documents in your name, liability (3rd party) insurance sorted, export plates valid for the required period printed, ready to put on your bike. 6. Ride (legally) into the sunset within Europe. Outside Europe you're going to need to purchase insurance at the borders. The cost for me was €425 for plates, title documents, liability insurance for 30 days. This is all I want as I am heading for Africa and is plenty of time to get to an exit border. I initially thought that was expensive - but the issues with trying to do it yourself are almost impossible. After a month of trying to figure out the system, order of things, documents required, translating everything from Dutch and German to English (Google translation of important stuff sucks big time) - I was almost at the point of throwing in the towel and going home. IF you want to have a go yourself, here are a few of the beautiful gems of German bureaucracy that you need to climb/bow to/give the finger/throw a tantrum at. 1. The local Fahrzeug-Zulasung authority requires the following documentation presented in Originale: a). Zulassungsbescheinigung Teil II (Fahrzeugbrief) b). Zulassungsbescheinigung Teil I (Fahrzeugschein) c). Versicherungsbestätigungs-Nummer (eVB) zum Abruf (ausgestellt vom Versicherer) d.) Hauptunter-suchungsbericht (wenn bereits eine HU durchgeführt wurde) empohlen; die Zulassungsbehörde behält sich vor, das Original in Zweifelsfällen zu fordern e). bei zugelassen Fahrzeugen: geseigelte Kennzeichen-schilder f). SEPA Lastschrift-mandat für den Einzug der KFZ-Steuer g). Personalausweis zusätzlich bei Firmen aktueller Handels-registerauzug bzw. Gewerbeanmeldung. Pighten Personersonalausweis des zukünftigen Halters mit den aktuellen Meldedaten; bei Minderjähringen schriftliche Einwillgung der Erziehungsberechtigten und beide Personalausweise. Bei Firmen und Vereinen muss neben dem entsprechenden Registerauszug der Personalausweis und die Vollmacht einer im Register aufgeführten - zeichnungsbefugten - Person unterschreiben vorgelegt werden h). Bei Erledigung durch Dritte: Vollacht und Personalausweis der bevollmächtingen Person i). Bemerkungen Easy eh? Sweet! Just translate all that - yeah no worries. First parts - ownership documents in the previous owners name - easy. Then an eVB number - a number that identifies your insurance policy. That requires ownership documents in YOUR name to purchase. And often proof of residency in Germany. But wait - I need an eVB to change the documents to my name, but I need documents in my name to get an eVB?? WTF?? Oh wait - it gets more fun. They want a vehicle inspection to ensure the physical vehicle VIN and details match their records. But how do you get the vehicle inspected? Bring it in! Yeah....with no plates on it? Van or trailer hire to get it there? And then - a direct debit German bank account (which requires proof of residency to establish an account) to debit road taxes from. Ok - think I need someone who is fluent in German to help me out here - oh, then you need an authority for them to act on my behalf. Oh well - there's always their web site on-line help to make things easy: https://www.kreis-viersen.de/ (go on...have a play. See how YOU get on with it). Ahh - several recommendation of Dooby and Lobagola here. Maybe he can help me out. Nope. Needs title documents in my name to provide insurance. Catch f*king 22. Can't register or insure a vehicle in Netherlands, France, Spain etc without proof of residency. This German export plates seems to be the only avenue for a foreigner to buy a motorbike and get it on the road legally in Europe. There are lots more details about how long/can you extend the time etc but that is not the purpose of my post. If you've got a simpler, cheaper, more straightforward process TELL US HERE!! Save a truckload of heartbreak, frustration and alcohol abuse. |
Ouch
. UK might be a good option.. At least they speak English! There are a couple of insurance companies that cover non Europeans. If you need a UK address for such purposes let me know. Sent from my LLD-L31 using Tapatalk |
Thanks Fern. Yeah considered the UK but seemed similar issues with non-residency crap for insurance. Then the costs of getting a bike to Europe. However - the offer of a UK address is primo. Hope some can make use of it.
And I thought my issues of providing a second and third form of acceptable identification in Australia to register a bike was a mission! Nieve noobie! |
Cost of getting a bike in o Europe, £20 on ferry. We are not that far away!
Sent from my LLD-L31 using Tapatalk |
Quote:
Did it last year to try out the process. Couple of guys who contacted me here on HUBB. Non-EU passports. Talked about it, I showed them the Estonian motorcycle ads website (pretty much every bike for sale in the country is on there). They figured out what they wanted and contacted the sellers in advance. Day 1: they land in Tallinn in the morning, go see a few of the bikes they've been interested in. Found one good KLE 500, some other possibles. Evening of Day 1: we meet up for a beer, they tell me about the possibles. I open the website on my phone, see that there's another KLE 500 that just popped up recently. Day 2: they go look at the second KLE, love it, buy both. Get a handwritten contract of sale from both owners, along with the keys and registration certificates. Day 3: We ride to the local vehicle licensing agency (ARK/MNT). I tell the clerk what we're doing, the clerk is a bit taken aback but pulls out extra forms. We fill in all the forms: the ownership of the bikes is transferred from old owners to these two guys. I go on their registration certificate as the Authorized User, meaning that I essentially represent the bikes to the state of Estonia if it has any questions about them. The guys also go on each other's registration certificates as Authorized Users, meaning they can cross the border riding each other's bikes. Just in case. The guys pay 61 euros each (by card) and get the shiny new registration certificates with their names on them, and their Very Much Not European home addresses and passport numbers in the database. All of this has taken maybe 2 hours, including waiting in the queue, because it's Saturday and this is the only vehicle registration office that's open around the capital. We go outside to the kiosk of an insurance broker. They get a week's worth of mandatory insurance (smallest amount possible) for roughly 20 euros each. Takes another hour total, because the clerk hasn't done this before and needs to phone the main office for help figuring out how to enter all this into her computer system. Day 4: the guys go to a local motorcycle shop, buy consumables, do a service on the bikes in the shop's yard. Day 5: the guys cross the border at Narva and **** off out of the EU. I am now off the hook in terms of road insurance (if they crashed, it would have been my premium as Authorized User that went up). ...Day 100: the guys reach Vladivostok, sell the bikes to a local moto shop that specializes in Japanese imports and knows how to legally register foreign vehicles. Day 130: I get an envelope in the mail with the original Estonian registration certificates, and photocopies of the bikes' new Russian registration certificates. Day 131: I go to ARK/MNT, explain the situation, give them the papers, and write two copies (one per bike) of a statement that says I am relinquishing my status as Authorized User, to my knowledge the bikes are no longer on the road in their Estonian legal form, the license plates have been lost, and I have no way to contact the listed owners. Day 161: Having sent letters to the Very Much Not European addresses and received no reply, ARK/MNT deletes the bikes from their database. (If I ever do this again, I will have the actual owner leave me a signed but undated statement saying they are no longer in possession of the bike or license plate, which I can submit along with the returned registration certificates and proof of import to another country, to save the step between Day 131 and Day 161.) |
Ahhh, adventures in paperwork
Kiwiwannafly:
Best reportage this global journalist has seen in a long time - good job and thanks for taking the time to detail your adventure in paperwork. Too often I see Internet and print media fluff that suggests/implies one can simply fly into Europe, helmet and cash in hand, purchase a motorcycle and freely room. Detailing your paperwork adventure may have brought some dreamers back to Planet Earth. Regards, |
Quote:
Just to correct on your statement that we need the title to be in your name to provide coverage, as you bought from private owner there is 101 % chance he/she was not willing to give you a notary letter permission so to issue the coverage in his/her name. So hence no coverage Germans are notoriously suspicious, so even if you are making this kind of deals with known people they're keen to cancel their insurance "just in case". The whole Odyssey you went through is way too complicated in my view. As there are countries where you can do it much easier and fully legal without any risk of any fines. Enjoy your ride in Africa, BR Dooby |
Sun Chaser - thanks for that. Its nice reading people's stories and opinions but difficult to get hard core facts sorted. Exactly my purpose of writing.
I see you're an Indian racer. Many years ago I met an old fella in NZ on a miserable windy wet day. He took us in for a cuppa and thought we might be interested in his shed. Inside was a collection of predominantly pre-50's (?) Indians, a couple of similar vintage Harleys including a beautiful example with a wicker basket sidecar. But his pride & joy was a 1911 Indian 1000cc racer - extremely well used, unrestored. No front brake, good for over the ton (100mph) but would take a brave man to do it. Sadly dead now, but his collection was given to a range of enthusiasts that would appreciate (rather than the rich wankers to store their 'investment'). |
Dooby - yep mate, you're exactly right about the German efficiency with cancelling their insurance. In retrospect it may have been easier heading over to see you for this whole process. But just wasn't an option in my situation.
Sorted now - hope people can learn from my experience, then chose the best solution for their needs. |
Your post is going to be very useful for everyone that's like with a million % certainty.
Thanks for the effort of putting it all down, as I know how German paperwork is hard when you don't speak language this is really a feat what you did to put it down for the others. Have fun, you're already rolling forward ;). Cheers Dooby |
I'll stick with shipping a US plated/registered bike. Orders of magnitude less hassle. I do thank you for (a) the perseverance to make it happen and (b) documenting the process here. I'm sitting here shuddering just thinking about it.
|
something to add to the process to explain it from a german perspective:
it is possible to take the registered bike from the previous owner. it will automatically unregister in the moment you register it. also the insurance will automatically be canceled. normally there is a phrase in the contract you have to do it within 5 working days and everybody is happy. it safes you trouble and the previous owner work and money. This makes it much easier for you because you can ride the bike in the meantime. it doesn't matter in which town the bike was registered but you have to register it in the town your address is registered... second adding about the costs. the process of registering a motorcycle cost around 40,40€, plates 10€, insurance is not expensive and taxes neither. the problem, for taxes and insures you need a bank account. in generell you need to register to get an address. |
| All times are GMT +1. The time now is 23:06. |