How do I get a UK tax disk when travelling for driving in Australia
 

I am planning to drive to Australia. I understand that Australia requires a current vehicle tax disk. I will enter Australia with about 6 months of MOT. I do not want to insure the vehicle for 12 months in the UK only just to buy a tax disk. Also tax disks will no longer be issued after October 2014.

Any ideas?

Thanks Trevor

You can use those one day insurance things like insureforaday to buy a uk tax disk.

I've used them to collect UK vehicles and have read that in the small print before on them.

Never heard of a country needing a foreign tax disk on a foreign registered vehicle though. But I know very little about Oz.

Be careful of driving without a current tax disc from the country in which the vehicle is registered. Even in 2010/11 our tax disc was checked more than once in South Africa. They are catching up with technology.

Margaret

I've also been checked before. Presumably once it's all electronic, this fact will filter across to those who check? Not sure my Czech is up to trying to explain the intricacies of the UK licensing system!

I concur with the above point. I think that the original poster will need to do a bit of digging to find out exactly what the purpose of the UK tax disk is. If the legislation in the UK states that the tax disk is required in order to have the right to use the roads in the UK, and the vehicle is not being used in the UK, then it doesn't make sense that a valid tax disk should be required if the vehicle is being used on the other side of the world.

I have experience with a similar situation: I have a Canadian registered motorcycle that I use exclusively in Europe. I maintain European insurance coverage when I ride it in Europe. I don't keep the Canadian equivalent of a tax disk current if the motorcycle is off the North American continent.

An argument could be made that the 'home registration practices' (tax disks, etc.) need to be kept up if the vehicle is in a neighboring country (e.g. a UK vehicle in France, a Canadian vehicle in the USA), but once the vehicle has been moved to another continent and cannot be 'driven' back to the home country, I think it is kind of pointless to continue to pay dues to the home country if the dues are levied for the purpose of using the home country roads.

Apropos of the comment above about South African cops checking tax disc validity - well, cops (anywhere) are going to look for ways of challenging a motorist, and if they see an expired tax disc, they will raise that issue and present a challenge. The fix for that is simple, just remove the expired tax disc from the vehicle. What cops need to see (and are entitled to see) is the registration document for the vehicle, proof of ownership of the vehicle, and proof of insurance of the vehicle. If those three items are in order, I can't see any other cause for concern.

Michael

Cops are cops the world over. Their job is mainly to extort money from you, either for the government or for their own pocket. They are revenue officials in a shinier uniform.

Non-display of a tax disk from a foreign country is a totally moot point. Driven for years in Europe without tax in the 'home country' of the vehicle. All they want is insurance, a basically road worthy looking vehicle (lights, tyres) and the registration papers in your name, id, driving license.

They couldn't actually charge you with anything, because they cannot determine if the vehicle is taxed or not in its home country. This may change within the EU in the near future (if it doesn't implode under the weight of its own bs soon, here's hoping:thumbup1::thumbup1::thumbup1::thumbup1:), but as yet thats it.

As I said before, I know nothing about Oz, but its going to involve an awful lot of paperwork for any little piggy to try to make a prosecution stick for that. I can't imagine that its any different for that reason alone.

Carnet?
 

Hi Trevor,
You will need a carnet for Oz ( plus Iran, Pakistan, India, Indonesia, Timor Leste if venturing that way ) unless you intend to pay the import duty. Regarding driving vehicles in foreign countries, my understanding is that the vehicle has to be registered in the home country. Also, in Oz at least, that is a requirement of the carnet. However, people break the law all the time, so join the club, we have a huge membership.
Regards,
Mark

Hi Mark:

I think you might be missing the nuance that exists between 'registration' and 'having a valid tax disk'.

In my particular case (that being the only case I can talk about with any authority), my motorcycle is unquestionably 'registered'. It does not have a current validity sticker (required for operation in the home country), but it certainly is 'registered'.

I think that what the original poster needs to do is determine if a valid UK tax sticker is necessary to maintain registration of his moto (my guess is that this is unlikely), or if a valid tax sticker is necessary in order to comply with the requirements for driving on public roads in the home country.

One possible way of determining this might be to observe vehicles that are fitted with licence plates, but never operated on public roads. Examples of this would include ramp vehicles used at airports, or shuttle and tug vehicles used in container yards at marine ports. If these vehicles are observed to be operating with a licence plate installed, but no tax disk, then that implies that the tax disk is not a prerequisite to maintain vehicle registration, but instead a requirement for vehicles that will be operated on public roads.

The above suggestion won't provide a conclusive answer (a review of the applicable legislation will be needed), but it might suggest what the final answer is going to be.

Michael

'Registered' has nothing to do with whether road tax has been paid in the UK at least.

Registration plates are for life in as much of Europe as I am aware of. I can park a vehicle in a hayshed for 20 years and its still 'registered'.

Bear in mind that after 12 months outside the UK it is IMPOSSIBLE to tax a vehicle as it is impossible to tax a UK vehicle with no MOT (not the same in all countries).

So I would take advantage of that and avoid road tax for as long as I was out of the UK or where ever.

I should add that the last time the Irish customs (an absolute shower of Hitlers, as bad as you will meet anywhere in my experience) tried (and failed :rofl:) to take a vehicle off me, they never even mentioned I didn't have a tax disk displayed on it. And that was within the EU.

Don't worry about it, spend your 200 and what ever pounds on your travels and have a good time!!bier

Oz registration = tax disc
 

I apologize for digressing from Trevor's question.
The registration, tax discs, MOTs, mandatory insurance and what nots are a mangled maze between countries.
In Australia vehicle registration is a state (eg. NSW, Victoria ) based tax and is valid for a year only, so requires annual renewal, otherwise it is considered to be unregistered. It roughly equates to the UK registration plus tax disc plus third party insurance in most Oz states. Regulations vary between states, eg. NSW require an annual vehicle inspection, similar to the UK MOT, while Victoria only require an inspection on transfer of ownership or when re-registering an unregistered vehicle.
To get an Australian carnet, the vehicle has to have current registration, I don't know the requirements for a UK carnet. Actually I'm stuck with an unregistered Australian bike in the UK, and I cannot get it re-registered in order to get another Oz carnet to ride it back home via SE Asia. Therefore I'm thinking of riding it home via the USA.



Regards,
Mark

Also bear in mind that any UK registered vehicle has,by law, to be either taxed or sorned. If the vehicle is sorned it must be kept at a given address in the UK where it may be inspected. Penalties for either are high.

Margaret

So its therefore illegal to leave the UK with a vehicle for more than 12 months, because with no valid MOT it can't be taxed??

Lots of people have done it/are doing it; its a bit of a legal mess, but I have never heard of anyone coming out to 'inspect the location of' a SORN vehicle. And if for some bizarre reason they did, well its in a locked garage or shed and they would require a warrant from the courts to enter your property anyway, which they would experience some difficulty obtaining.

It's just an extra deterrent to stop people from driving untaxed vehicles and make it easier for the government to seize/steal your property from you! SORN is only valid within the UK anyway, the regulation doesn't even exist in the vast majority of countries.

It was brought in as a way to take old vehicles off the roads, by making it difficult for small scrap yards to trade. This encourages more people to buy new cars and increases the tax take accordingly whilst also damaging the 'cash' economy, and was then morphed into a way of collecting 'easy money' from people that forget to renew the pointless declarations annually.

Its absolutely pointless to try to tax a UK vehicle when you are in say India at the time or Mozambique or Russia.
Are you going to hang around waiting for DHL to deliver you tax disc for 2 weeks:confused1::confused1:doh

Or drive home quickly from Pakistan because you just realised your MOT is out in 6 days?:confused1::confused1:doh

PC Plodski isn't going to know for one thing and has no way to check it, isn't going to care for another and won't do anything anyway because it would be way too much hassle. :rolleyes2::rolleyes2:
If he wants what's in your wallet badly enough he'll find some other ludicrous pretence to try to fine you like not enough spare bulbs, warning triangles etc etc.

However this is all off topic, does anyone know if it is an actual LEGAL requirement in Australia to have road tax in the country of origin when importing a vehicle on a carnet?

That's what the original poster really wants to know.

Legal
 

It is a LEGAL requirement, if the vehicle is to be used on the road, to have the vehicle LEGAL in the country of origin for use on the road in any other country. This comes down to a UN agreement... that is lots of paperwork, regulations and signatures....

If the vehicle comes from the UK then you cannot use it in France, Spain, Australia etc etc unless it is legal for use in the UK. Meaning you have to have a road tax payment valid. This is a legal requirement to use the vehicle in the other country .. nothing to do with a carnet. (Sorry Mark but you will need some form of rego to be legal in any country).

Think of it this way - your paying road tax for home, but not where you are. So another person going to your home country does not pay road tax there - they pay it for their home.. a balance?

Regarding MOT, Tax disks and 'Australian rego'... different things .. and lots of misunderstanding. Hence the ability to 'get away' with things .. unless the cop knows what is what in the other country! Then your in for a heap of trouble!!!!

---------------------------------
Australia too is moving away from 'tax disks' to a computerized system. Nothing to stick on the bike. You'll still get some bit of paper just in case to computer looses things. Some Australian cop cars have 'number plate' recognition cameras hooked up to the computer - if its is not regoed then the cop will know even as you ride past. I'd assume it will be the same elsewhere.

As Mark said, Australia combines the roadworthy, tax and a check on required minimum insurance into one thing - called 'registration'. It does make things simpler .. if you have 'rego' then it means you have the lot.. no need to check each thing individually.

=============================
MOT when overseas .. or rego when overseas.. Talk to your people! Mine wanted some form of inspection done there by someone who does a similar service in that country. They would accept that and re rego the vehicle.. I'd think taking the previous inspection paperwork with you would help the foreign rego people understand what is required in your home country .. possibly avoiding different regulation problems?

==============================
You asked for LEGAL ... not practical! You got legal + a little practical.

I don't know what the Australian requirements pertaining to a foreign registered vehicle (temporarily imported into Australia for tourism) are.

But, a quick look at the Government of the United Kingdom website finds very definitive statements about the UK's position on vehicles that are operated outside of the country.

For UK registered vehicles that will be outside of the UK for less than 12 months, see here: Taking a vehicle out of the UK - less than 12 months. The UK government's position on this is quite clear: "A UK-registered vehicle exported temporarily remains subject to UK law. That means that you need to make sure it is taxed in the UK while it’s abroad."

For UK registered vehicles that will be outside of the UK for morethan 12 months, see here: Taking a vehicle out of the UK - more than 12 months.

Michael

For Gods sake no one follow that piece of advice on that government website. Thats for PERMANENT export to another country!!

You won't be able to bring it home again without importing it!

Who cares what the UK governments position is, when the vehicle is not on UK roads, of course they will tell you to tax it!!

Liammons:

I provided two links. The first link explains the UK government's position for temporary export (up to 12 months absence). The second link addresses permanent export.

The way that government website is constructed is a bit confusing, which is why you may not have noticed that I provided two different links that lead to two different pages. But, if you go to this link:

Taking a vehicle out of the UK - less than 12 months

and look at point 2, which has the header "For less than 12 months", you will see the policy about temporary export that I described above.

What I can gather from this is that for UK registered vehicles, the UK government clearly wants to collect the tax due if the vehicle is temporarily exported from the country, and they state that explicitly.

Michael

Sorry but posters like these deserve all they get when they are caught and the way technology is now working throughout the world it won't be long. They are also the cause of the costs of taking our vehicles abroad escalating and becoming undoable for us ordinary law abiding travellers.

Margaret

Margaret, 'posters like that'?

What logical reason is there to pay an excise duty for something that your not using? (the roads, when your not in the country). On pure blind principle, why would you do that. I've paid enough of my sweat and labor over to governments and got precious little in return. When I find an occasion where they can't actually break my arm to do it, I'll take it.
I was actually thinking of taking on another employee at the end of last year and I can't afford to do it, not because my business isn't viable, but because I pay so much tax and assorted other 'contributions'. If we all paid (a lot) less tax and people were left to fend for themselves a bit more, there would be less unemployed and less morbidly obese people!

Of course the government WANTS you to pay it, that's what governments do, collect tax.

But on this occasion, they can't enforce it.

By all means prosecute people who drive untaxed vehicles IN the country, though even that is a little bit moot because every time you drain your fuel tank and fill it, the government also gets its bottomless pockets filled up :thumbdown:

Thankfully, I not longer reside in the UK. The next step is to get out of the damn EU permanently, and move to a country where the state doesn't control and tax your every movement.

Just sorn it. Spent 3 years on sorn with no tax mot or insurance, took out third party in each country spent 2 years on Aus rego no problems never asked for any docs only in India once.

Hi Andy:

I wonder (just academically, I'm not passing any judgement or anything like that) if a motorcycle owner would expose themselves to a greater amount of legal jeopardy by making a false statutory declaration as opposed to simply doing nothing at all ('doing nothing at all' meaning taking the bike out of the country without filing a declaration and then letting the tax disk expire).

In other words, if a rider took a moto out of the country and did not file any form of statutory declaration once the tax disk expired, ignorance of the requirement to file the declaration could be presumed. But, if a false declaration is filed, that moves things into a whole different area that doesn't have anything to do with motorcycles, that being making false statutory declarations.

Just food for thought.

Michael

Doing nothing at all has the fine for not declaring SORN turning up shortly afterwards at your registered address. Ignoring that has the wheels of the justice system creaking into motion. Declaring it off British roads on line is certainly the lesser of two evils.

I'm no legal expert (to say the least) but as far as I can see there is no way of taking a vehicle abroad for more than 13 months and keeping all of the UK paperwork up to date. The only possible exception is using something registered pre 1960 that doesn't need an MOT and therefore could obtain its (free) tax disc on line but I suspect that's not a loophole many people will be exploiting.

Thats the point, a SORN (off road) declaration can by its very nature only be valid in the UK. It only refers to UK roads, therefore once your not in the UK thats the logical route to take.

Sorn or something similar doesn't even exist, nor is it a legal requirement in most countries, nor can it in any way be legally applicable in another country.

I don't really understand why people get so uptight about this.

My tax disk was often 'in the post' when I was young(er)! And poorer! As I am sure were many peoples on here.

Boot on the other foot?
 

Ok.. let say I'm using an Australian legally registered vehicle in the UK. What would you expect me to pay for that? What do you think are the rules for me using a vehicle on your roads?

Road tax?
MOT?

Nope... I've done that for Australia, so I 'have it' but for Australia. Under the agreement I don't need to have the UK equivalent as I have it for Australia. beer I've also got at least the minimum required insurance for Australia... Same rules for French, Germans etc etc.

The only additional thing I've got to have is the minimum insurance required for the UK (even if I try for more I'll probably not take it due to excessive costs) .. so I'm not paying for UK roads while using them, but paying for Australian roads while not using them. bier

----------------------
If you don't like this system .. then start being prepared to have to have your vehicle inspected, pay road tax etc into every country you travel to with your vehicle .. France, Spain. Andorra, Portugal, Italy etc... real put a hole in your holidays. :funmeterno: And you'll probably need to pay in large chunks rather than what you use .. e.g. you want 3 weeks? Sorry minimum is 3 months payment

Message KISS - pay .. it is a small cost compared to the trip. If 'they' cannot adapt to your needs then do your best to work around them. Maybe you can pay the first 12 months then sorn it. Humm pre 1960? What if it was a 1960 with a few replaced bits (errr the old bits wore out so I've fitted so new replacements)? [A BSA gold star becomes a DR650]

Back when the old pre 1960 clunkers were new SORN may only have been a twinkle in a bureaucrats eye but there were plenty of other pitfalls to bring your trip to a juddering halt. You'd need a visa for Spain, a carnet for Calais (or its slightly cheaper sibling, the pink triptyque - whatever happened to those?) and an international driving licence for Holland. Any letters you sent from Spain or the old Yugoslavia could be censored. No MOT though - they only came in for 1960 but no Euro breakdown cover either - late 60's for that.

For a few reasons my bikes will be off the roads :( for a couple of months..... so I have let their taxes run out and sorned them, first was my k75 then my scoopy 50. For that latter I got the option to for the the sorn to automatically renew. Is the a new thing or is it because it is only a 50cc bike not a 750cc!

Actually a lot of countries apply various vignettes etc or 'eco taxes' for vehicles even in Europe such as Austria and Romania when temporarily imported(or just passing through) as a contribution to road tax. Don't forget that you pay tax every time you use a pump and fill up too if any of this makes you feel 'guilty' for some reason.

However this is descending into an argument about a technical legal issue that is more a matter of choice than anything else.
Can anyone provide a link to a story/newspaper article about someone who was prosecuted for driving a roadworthy foreign registered vehicle that was insured, but not taxed in its country of origin? And had also not exceeded any restrictions on duration of stay/residency pitfalls.
I highly doubt it.:nono:

To me, taxing a UK vehicle, when its not in the UK is akin to feeling guilty for drinking cheap wine in France and posting back a cheque to the UK revenue for the money they have lost by you not buying the wine in the UK.

If it makes you feel better, tax it. When your MOT runs out, after a maximum of 12 months, you won't be able to do that anymore so ship it home if you want, or organise your entire trip over when your MOT and tax are out:rolleyes2::rolleyes2::rolleyes2:. I don't think anyone is going to do that.

Lots of people travel for years at a time, what do you think they do?

Margaret, that is a very narrow minded opinion- do you really think all laws are totally thought through, and cater to all people, with no loopholes the politicians/govt agencies haven't thought of?

agreed.. My bike has been out of the country on Brit plates for nearly 2 years now.. 1st year on a carnet, and sorned on line, my take is that it is off the UK roads.. I'm not a law dodger, the moment i'd return to ride on UK roads i'd tax it straight away.

Now in NZ on Temporary Import Scheme, and when the vehicle is imported, the NZ authorities demand that the vehicle is inspected- a WOF-Warrant of Fitness- like an MOT, and REGO- like tax.

I'd like to see where the original poster read that a bike going to Ozzy needs to be taxed in it's home country...

This topic has previously been discussed at

http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...ong-term-39472

Some good information there as well as the usual ill-informed woffle. Tony P's comments are worth reading for the correct information.

I think that Warin has provided the best and most accurate answer of all of us in his sentence cited above.

The 'agreement' that he refers to is the 1949 United Nations Convention on Road Traffic, which among other things established the system of white oval stickers that we use internationally to identify the country of registration of our vehicles.

Heck, we all should have twigged onto that earlier... :mellow:

Michael

Hi,

I did London to Australia with UK Registered Vehicle in 2012. Im an aussie but my tax disc expired whilst I was travelling. Result they wouldnt let me temporary register it when i arrived in australia, and therefore wasnt insured. I got to my house in Adelaide, and luckily got a vehicle import approval otherwise i had two options. return it to uk where I no longer live, or destroy it... In reality i still havent got it on the road. once i got my import approval it kinda sat aroundd until just recently i got it inspected, got my list of things for compliance and its in the garage as we speak finishing things off.. should be on the road in a couple of weeks....

but yeh no matter how i explained they wouldn't let me register without a tax disc, even though i sorned it as i thought was right thing to do. i think as another poster said, in aus vehicle reg and tax is all in one which you have to maintain. all i could show them was my vehicle ownership papers and an expired tax disc.

perhaps i could have tried elsewhere but in gold coast they had no idea...