OLD list and discussion of Countries that require Carnet de Passages en Douane
 

here we go again!

this list is absolutely wrong . Horribly wrong. I am so tired of saying that No carnet is needed in most Africa . that I wont´go again.

for an up to date list of countries which require carnet (i.e. those which if you don´t have a carnet you cant not enter the country) go to wikipedia and look for Carnet de Passage.

This list is more or less accurate and up to date ( I am the mantainer of that list )

I can assure you that you can enter mauritania , mali , niger , ,nigeria , chad , camerun , congo , angola namibia sudafrica , both guineas , gambia , senegal , sierra leona , ghana (recently) , ivory coast , togo , benin , CAR , etc..etc..etc.. without a carnet.

Indeed , in order to not mislead people .. Id sugest the moderator to remove this entire post , as Its going to mislead a hell of a lot people.

Thanks
Javier

senegal requires a carnet for all vehicles over 5 years old, although you maybe able to obtain a laissez passez at the border.
gambia requires a carnet for right hand drive vehicles.

Hummm ..

Australia does not requier a carnet ... but you are better off with one than without!!!!!

That may also be the case in Africa .. at least in some countries.

So perhaps the word 'require' could be changed to ? advisable ?

I thought all of the Americas were Carnet-free.

>>>So perhaps the word 'require' could be changed to ? advisable

HI ..
no no no. Most countries on these list won't hassle you at-all for not having a Carnet. You end up paying the same fees (scam) for either the Passavant , or for Stamping the carnet (ussually around 5 Euros a go)

Compare this minor hassle compared to all the nightmares of getting a carnet , or losing the vehicle , or losing the carnet , or Both ! . Also , Id go even further :

When you have a carnet , you are in a very vulnerable position . Most policemen know that , and as soon as they stop you ( for whichever reason ) they demand your carnet OR passavant . ok . A passavant is just a piece of paper , and they don't give a damm , but they KNOW that a carnet is worth Thousands of dollars ,or even a equity on your house , and they ussually extort the unhappy tourist trreatening about ripping off the carnet , etc.. etc..

I have seen happening so muuuuuch times , man !! . (on the other hand .. I honestly think that people still using a Carnet in countries such as Mauritania or Mali , etc.. actually deserve it - no joking- .

If you see who is actually insisting on the use of the carnet .. Its just RAC , RACC , RACE , etc...etc.. No one from Africa will tell you that you really need a carnet. No one. Its only the embassies in Europe (who know nothing about their own country ) , or people which mistakes a carnet de passage with a Carte Griss .

Insist : Since a few years Its no longer required a Carnet to travel in Africa . Every country issues some way or another to enter the country without it .

and -for newcomers- never forget that if you loose the Carnet , or the vehicle (fire , theft , crash , accident , or getting stuck ) you LOSE ALL THE INDENMITY. This adds from several thousand bucks to tens or even hundred of grands in teh case of nice Unimogs.

So whichever Hassle would be without a carnet .. Its not worth . People which think entering Senegal without a carnet is a Hassle , they are gonna be hassled anyway for the most mundane issues.

F uck Carnets! . Its perfectly possible travel without them in Africa . They are a hassle , are expensive , are pointless , risky gambles with a lot of cash on them.. Feel Generous ? spend the same ammount of the cost of the carnet in real people in Africa , not into a Bank , or the Swiss RAC ! .


Have a nice day

As a carnet is a customs document .. why should a policeman need it? And why would you give it to him? And why would you not have a 'copy' to give it to him .. and let him keep it .. similar to your IDP, riders licence .. etc.

If they keep the passavant .. well the liablity may not be as much .. but I'd think it would be a similar threat.

HI...

The Carnet de Passage / and or / Passavant is the only doccument that the police can (and will) ask you to show ownership of the vehicle.

for whichever reason (other than in the border ) they are not interested on the carte gris , or the V5.1 . They demand to see either the Carnet , or the PAssavant

- in a way makes sense , as supposedtly the passavant is only issued if you can show a propper carte gris , etc ,People at the borders are used to any different regional variation of carte gris , etc... while road side policemen would be confused , but they surely know exactly how their own country´s passavant looks like


If for whichever reason you loose / taken from/ your passavant , is as simply as getting into the next town ´s custom office (every town got something like that ) and pay for another , brand new passavant (around 5 euros )
I lost once one , and got stolen by a police another . And no problem whatsoever. Should that have been a real carnet de passage and I would be still making repayments to the bank

Have a nice day
Javier

In that case a good copy would do the job.. less than 5 Euros to copy mine at home... :) Just got to carry enough of them!

Carnet
 

I got into Ghana without a carnet however i think it would have been easier with one. I am now concerned about other countries, particularly South Africa and i'm thinking of getting a false carnet, talked about on this website, even though my travel policy is not to do anything illegal.

do you think its a good idea?

No.

I make copies of all my documents - and try to use the copies if at all possible. That saves the originals from ware, tare, mud, water, dirty fingers, running ink, etc, etc.

To make a false document .. well it is not a good idea. You are much better off with a real one or a direct copy of it. And several direct copies of the real one (allows for lots of wet weather for one). Some places with enough computer links can check things like carnets and if your caught using a false one then you may well be turned back .. not a good thing at all.

Carnet to import vehicle to Argentina?
 

Hello,

We are planning on shipping four bikes into Argeninta from Canada. We have been told we will need a carnet to clear the bikes through customs in Ushuaia. Is this true? We will be leaving Argentina days after arriving, and within a month we will be back in Canada. Is it worth getting a Carnet. Do we need one? Will it make crossing borders easier?

Rob Noble
Noble Quest - Argentina to Alaska on V-Strom 650s

just back from Senegal last month on a 1999 1100gs with no carnet & know of older BIKES that were there without one . It may be different for cars as was told the presidents brother imports 2nd hand cars into senegal & may not want compition . The ploice did want to see my insurance a few times.
kev

Carnet = usefull!
 

Javier,

I feel you're reacting a bit strong against the carnet. On my trip down to south africa in 2003/2004 I've used a carnet as of Burkina and further south. I didn't use it in Mali because indeed it wasn't needed and I thought it was safer not to use it. But then I had to extend the laisze passer twice, which took me the best part of the day + some 'liquide' to make the machine turn. That's when I decided to use the Carnet for the rest of the trip.

Using the carnet was really painless, and didn't incur additional costs for stamps as mentionned in your post. Also no need to get extensions and other formalities done once in the country. It does cost around 200€ though, which makes for a lot of border crossings on a laiser-passer. On a regulare west-africa trip I indeed would consider not taking a carnet, but for anyting more involved it pays of dividends if you ask me.

DRC does not recognize the Carnet, but it can be used at least at the Cambinda and Matadi borders.

In Congo-B I came accross a customs officer that didn't know the CDP and he fined me ... .

Nice research. Probably a pretty good reference for westerners. Depending on your country of origin the list may be different.

Rob

Hi Rob ..

well , my point is not that you can use the carnet in Africa . OBviously you can use it , probbably in Europe aswell . My point is that you can cross Africa exactly the same , without a carnet.

A carnet cost 200UKP ,but you need to upfront a indemnity of the value of your vehicle . If you lose -either the vehicle or the carnet or both- , damage it or have it stolen , you lose your total indemnity , which deppending on your vehicle can be from 1000 UKP to 20-30K for newer 4wd or 100K for a good 4x4 truck.

Does IT really compensate ? I think no way .

ok . It may save you time while getting the ´passavants (neligible ammount of time compared to say -visas- or insurance ) . but ..speaking about time .. how many days you waste at home arranging the carnet ? It took me 4 days , 200 Euros , 1500 Euros of warranty for a dodgy Samurai , and I was dissapointed , infuriated , when I saw people without that pointless expensive piece of paper crossing the borders exactly the same way as I did with my "carnet"

Never again .

From a money point of view It makes even less sense


even without thinking on the indemnity ... 200UKP is more than enough to buy passavants , lazze passe for all the route to Capetown ,

Basicly , if you weight the pros

("quicker entry trhought customs" )
("not to pay lassepasse (<5UKP per country )

and that is ... against the cons

risking astronomical ammounts of cash if you lose the carnet
hassle to get it done , bank procedures , fees
the cost of the carnet itself
being vulnerable to extorsion from bad cops taking the carnet
being constantly worried about the whereabouts of the carnet


in my oppinion the choice is clear.

but I insist :you can Use the carnet in All Africa -if you want-. BUT YOU CAN CROSS THE SAME COUNTRIES WITHOUT IT for far less money than the cost of the carnet . so the list on the top , is grossly grossly wrong .

do you know how many people are automaticly turned off to do a trans-african when they just learn about the cost of the carnet (>5000UKP for a decent Defender/LC) ?

if anyone wants to spend all this cash , and donate the money to the Swiss RAC , their local Banks , that´s ok ... but at least we should be clear that you can do exactly the same without a carnet.

have a nice day

Javier

Okay, looks like this discussion re carnets in Africa will go-on

but

has anyone managed to get into any of the following countries with a 4x4 without a carnet?

Pakistan
India
Bangladesh
Nepal
Iran

The carte grise / passavant / laissez passer that gets mentioned here - I seem to remember this only applies to Francophone African countries - is this true, or would it help me in any of the above countries?

Thanks

Dan

So you are sure one can drive from Morocco to South Africa without a carnet?

Artic circle to Tierra del Fuego-no carnet
 

Traveled through every country in Central and South America except Uruguay. NO CARNET NEEDED.
Year was 2005-6.
1983 BMW R80ST.
40K miles in all.
USA passport
NO CARNET.
Visas gotten at border if necessary.
Longest border crossing was 2 hours.
I do not speak Spanish.
I used locals at each border to help me through in /central America. Cost me $5 USD plus usual fees.


S. America was easy, no bribes. Customs very helpful.
Sometimes insurance was needed. Never more than $25 USD. Available at the borders.
You need a driver's license from your country of origin and the title for the bike and a passport.

Nothing else is needed. Just go.
Never speak Spanish in a police stop-slow down, smile, wave and play dumb.
Refuse to pay a bribe. I carried cigars. They make great presents!!
It was all very easy and very fun.
Bill

It's no big deal if the carnet gets lost. A duplicate doesn’t cost much and in most countries it’s far easier to organize a new carnet then a new passport.

I have seen people been refused entry to Kenya without one. But if you think a few days organizing back home is better then the hassle you will have in Egypt without a carnet then I wish you good luck. I met both a biker and a couple in a car that had to turn around south from Aswan.

>>A duplicate doesn’t cost much and in most countries it’s far easier to organize >>a new carnet then a new passport.

A duplicate ? you mean a photocopy ? -but you still need to carry the ultraexpensive original with you - !!!

or a real duplicate -i.e. being issued 2 carnets and leaving one at home- This would go against the very concept of the carnet .Wouldnt it ?

The real risk of the carnet is losing it . If you lose it -you will NEVER - recover your indemnity . I reckon that that money for a biker is ok(a bike can be valued around 2000- 3000 Euros at most ) . But for those people driving a new Land Cruiser ? losing the carnet (or getting it stolen , or defaced , burnt ) means losing 20.000 - 30.000 Euros .

Regarding Egypt .. yep . you can enter without it -but need to leave around 2000 Euros deposit to "be given back to you upon exit of the country" (?) .
This is probbably the only african Country for which a carnet makes sense .
Maybe also Kenya -althought most people enter without it -

have a nice day.

First off all the deposit for my bike was almost 10.000 Euro, for a new 1200GS it will be around 25.000 Euro – life is hard here in the north:-(

Okay, her we go:

1) You loose your carnet
2) Get in touch with the people that issued your carnet and explain what happened
3) They send you a new carnet (duplicate)
4) Carry on with your trip
5) Back home return Carnet and get deposit back

Anyway, as long as you bring the vehicle back to where you get the carnet issued you will get your money back!
A friend of mine reported his Carnet stolen because he wanted it as a souvenir when the trip was finished, no problems.

....and maybe it helps in Chad, and maybe......... :-)

Oh dear.

So you and your vehicle return home. The carnet that guarantees that the vehicle won't stay in foreign places cannot be completed? Is that what you (Javier) are saying .. I call BS! You can loose/have stolen a carnet AND get your money back .. if you have not left the vehicle where it should not be AND can prove it. It simply adds more paper work .. but it can be done.

Is it possible to get a carnet once you are already on the road - we are in Ghana?

Getting a Carnet while on the road
 

I guess it's possible to get it while on the road, Just not so convenient to get the paperwork sorted.

Possibly
 

I think it may be possible. I'm having my carnet activated a year into my trip. Contact the Rac. they are very helpful, especially Paul

Best of luck, Derek.

NOT quite true.

In the event of loss of the vehicle via fire or accident, you need to get a local police report, and work with local customs to get the carnet stamped out. The police report is supposed to be (and from all reports I have is) sufficient. (In reality there may be some greasing of palms required, depending on the country, but there is no reason to lose the entire carnet indemnity). If the vehicle is stolen, same procedure, but it may be harder to prove a loss, so be careful and report it immediately.

If you lose the carnet, contact your carnet issuer, explain, and they will send you another one. Then all you have to do is EXIT the country and get an EXIT stamp in the carnet to prove you LEFT it. A police report on a theft of your goods would be helpful. If you simply lost it, you deserve the aggro you will get, but it's the same aggro you'd get if you lost a passavants or laissez passer. Remember that the whole point of a carnet is proving you LEFT a country with the vehicle. ENTERING the next one WITH the vehicle is also proof you left with it! Final proof is returning home with it and getting it stamped into your own country.

Yes, as DelBoy mentions it can be done, and Paul (RAC) is indeed very helpful!

BUT it's best to organise it in advance, and activate it when needed. Talk to Paul or whoever is your local person, and get al the paperwork sorted well in advance, before you leave. Then all you have to do is tell them to do it and send you the carnet. Obviously you want to be somewhere you can get it DHL/Fedexed in easily. (DO check with the local DHL/FEDEX office to be sure it's a direct connection from your home country and not passed between carriers.

Final tips:

DO NOT use a FAKE CARNET - unless you want to go to jail. That's not just a minor paperwork problem - it's an attempt to smuggle in a vehicle and will at least get the vehicle confiscated permanently and you will also usually go to jail!

A COPY of the pages of the carnet is a good idea - be sure to copy the pages as you go. They will be very useful to prove to your issuer the correct current status. Of course a copy is no good unless you've uploaded it to your web mail account, as you could lose it at the same time as the carnet!

Carnet is NOT required in ALL the Americas. It CAN make it easier, but not enough to be worth getting unless you already needed it for somewhere else.

Talk to your carnet issuer to get the latest info and so they know who you are! You want them on your side, so the better they know you the better future communications will be.

Australia - with or without works, but you have to plan in advance if without - see the Carnet page

probably a dumb question
 

This is almost certainly a dumb question, but what do you do when you're planning a 2 year trip that crosses countries that do need a carnet, but then goes through a number that don't? We're looking at a trip (probably not until end-08, by 4x4 b/c with kids) eastward from Paris through to singapore (and yup, we've looked at the hassle for china - looks doable though $$$), then australia, then south/north america, then africa starting in the south and heading north and back "home" to paris. It sounds like there's no question that a carnet is needed for the beginning of the trip (through pakistan/india, etc), and probably for the very end (if we go through egypt) - but what about all the time in the middle? Does the carnet just hang out there even if we aren't using it for the americas (and much of africa)? Am I wrong in my understanding that it isn't "released" until the vehicle arrives back in the issuing country - in our case france?

Thanks in advance ... very confused ...
Brenda

1) the carnet 'only' runs for a year.

I think you can get another one at the end of that year .. And I think you don't have to return to the original country .. but you do have to have each 'entry stamp' cancelled by a 'exit stamp' ..

2) look at the cost of the carnet .. for Iran the value is 470% of a bike .. so your second carnet may well be cheaper! ..

The bottom line is talk to your carnet provider!

Depends where you get the carnet.
CAA quotes 250%+.
I have no idea what the '+' is. :)

The + is probably the CAA fees .. AAA here charged $aud400 ..

Interesting that they only have 250% for Iran .. where as here it is 470% .. are our motorcycles about twice the worth of a cunk one?! :))

Frank,
There are several others that are much different regarding CAA vs RAC.
India and Egypt might be other good examples - 98% and 55% respectively.
If you guys way down south know why the chicken crossed the road, please pass on that info. :)

I suspect the '+' is something else, as the CAA spells out their fees. Iran is the only country I asked about that had a '+' attached to it. So, in the end, I really don't know squat.... :)

Same boat here. We just get on with it. After finding the money.


AAA chargees are listed here Taking Your Car Overseas - Australian Automobile Association

India etc are 400%.. but OZ is only 30% for a bike .. 100% for a car?

After a while you stop trying to make sense of it all ...
"There is no reason for it. It is just our policy."

carnets in Azia
 

Thanks Dan for this question ,exactly what I would like to know
Can enybody help us out?
:eek3:
Pol

Changes
 

Hi Javier,

Your arguments for not NEEDING a carnet seem based on a recent travel, while those members writing above seem to have travelled some years ago. I am intending to drive from London to Ghana (possibly entering Guinea and Guinea-Bissau and Togo and Benin) and am reading the more and more about the diminishing necessity of having a Carnet. I fully agree that if it would be possible to go without Carnet there are not many reasons for chosing to go with one. Can I ask when you travelled and with what vehicle?

Many thanks Lotty

Lotty
We are travelling from UK to Ghana starting in October 2007.
Our route is:
Morocco, Western Sahara, Mauritania, Mali, Burkino Faso, Benin, Togo, Ghana
So we would be interested in swapping notes on paperwork prepation if we could.
We started planning the trip 2 years ago and the Landy has been ready to for some time. We are now starting to sort the paperwork out, the details of which seem to have changed a little since 2005.
TIA
Ian

To carnet or not to carnet... that is the question?
 

Sooooooooo>??????
Morocco, Mauri, Senegal, Mali, Burkina, Ghana, Togo, Benin, Nigeria, Cameroon, Gabon, Congo, DRC, Angola, Namibia, Botswana, SA, Mozam, Malawi, Tanz, Kenya,Uganda
Going end Oct 2007 for 4 months.
Carnet or no Carnet??? Any good tips?
Money, money, money... breaks my heart spending it...destroys my soul earning it!!

To Carnet or not to Carnet
 

That is the question.


Guys i travelled from India through Afghan Iran and eventually into Europe without a carnet. It did prove it can be done HOWEVER it takes a fair bit of nous and alot of savvy.

Africa is a different story as The Egyptians are preety full on about the whole Carnet thing right from the get go. As a thumb rule the more 'Western' the society the more constaints imposed upon the citizens. Legal this and paperwork that... I wish you well in your travels.


I have written a novel about my entire bike adventure...:scooter:...It is available from lulu.com. The title of the book is The Lonely Road.

Apologies in advance if plugging on this site is un acceptable.



metta

Now that is settled
 

Hey guys,

I have another question that someone here may know but has to do with insurance and not a Carnet.

I have a Carnet that I got in Oman on an Omani regested vehicle and have travelled from there to Djibouti through Yemen (Havn't been asked for the Carnet as yet)! I am now in Djibouti but I believe that I require insurance to travel further, Ethiopia, Kenya and Tanzania. Would anyone have any suggestion of what to do here in this situation. I haven't been asked for it either in Yemen or Djibouti but it has to catch up with me sooner or later.

Cheers
Ivan

Insurance In Africa
 

Hi ya Ivan,



You'll get all the way without Insurance BUT at one point or another it will come down to money at the border ( which of course neatly lines the boder guards pocket). Them knowing you have no insurance but wish to continue on with your jourrney gives them a great deal of leverage- and they know it!

These are your two options:
1) Act poor, vague and obliging in an attempt to limit how much you get fleeced or 2) get creative cut and paste an insurance logo and type yourself up a high falutin legal sounding blurb.
This will at the very lest soften the fleecing blow! Of course Horizon Limited doesn't affiliate themselves with such actions :nono:

Happy travels

metta g

Does anyone know what the story is with selling your bike n Nepal to a foreigner. I think its possible this that right?
CHeers