The Carnet Dilemma...
 

Hi everyone,

I have been reading here - before I'm persecuted...

Here's my situation. I am writing from South Africa. I'm nearly 29. I'm rather, Um, 'tired' of the political and social situation here and am seriously keen to just bugger off. I was due to do a car rally from England to Mongolia this year but it fell through due to various reasons after 3 years of planning. I earn a pittance and any sort of major trip will wipe out my savings - I'm prepared to do this.

I don't really want to strictly plan a route because I think that detracts from the experience. I think it's better to go where your will decides on the day, so to speak.

Last week I went to go and see the HQ of the local AA to find out about carnets. I was told that they have to issue the carnet as they are the association in the country where my bike-to-be will be registered. I was also told that they need to know the route beforehand because any deviations won't be listed on the carnet. Then, horrifically, I was told that some countries would need up to 200% value of the bike - and from reading here, some up to 470%! :o

I might as well lie down and cry defeat on my death bed now.

Is there any way whatsoever to bypass this situation? If it helps, I would be prepared to skip the whole of Africa and look for a bike in the UK or Europe.

I would say the most important areas to me are Europe across Asia (Mongolia, Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, China, etc.), South America and perhaps North America up to Alaska.

Sponsorship did occur to me to be an option to cover the carnet, but how does a 'nobody' convince a 'somebody' to part with a small fortune?

Many thanks for any advice given.

If you don't want a carnet, go to Europe or the Americas. And if you're hoping to travel cheaply with your own bike, reconsider China and Vietnam (which also means reconsidering Southeast Asia due to the need for shipping).

You're hardly making a compelling case for sponsorship. Serious sponsors expect to get something substantial in return. What do you have to offer? What sets you apart from the other tens of thousands of people who'd like to ride around on motorbikes?

Again, if you want do go without a carnet, go where you don't need one. That's easy...and it'll keep you busy for a year or so, maybe longer. Everything else will fall into place.

Hope that helps.

Mark

To start with how do you expect to travel? if you are happy to use a 125 cc bike it will be much cheaper and your Rand will go further. It is possible to travel a lot of Southern and East Africa without a carnet, it might take a little longer to cross borders but it seems to be possible.
If you start in Europe you can go all the way to Japan through central Asia without a carnet and from there ship to America where the whole continent is carnet free, there are a lot of places you can go.
It costs big bucks to get into China but you can go around to Vladivostoc and ship to somewhere or ferry to Japan from there.

Thanks Mark and Mark,

I was under the impression this carnet was more of a global thing. I'm glad to hear otherwise.

I will look into the costs with regards to China and SE Asia as these really are very high up on my list...

Japan would be good too, but I'm told that's a horrendously expensive place to visit.

I'm still busy plotting 'must visit' countries, after which I'll investigate specifics a bit closer.

I have a few ideas on what to offer sponsors and am busy implementing them at present. =]

The bike I'm looking at is the BMW F800 GS.

Thank you for your input.

And don't forget that just because a Carnet for certain countries stipulates so many hundreds of percent of the value of the bike - it doesn't necessarily mean you have to have all of that money.

I'm not sure I can ride around the world...I'm not named Mark - and everyone else here seems to be. :D Hehe.

Care to elaborate please, 'onlyMark'? The lady at the local AA who handles the carnets told me it was the full amount stated.

EG: Bike costs 100,000 - carnet for country such as Egypt (200%) means deposit of 200,000.

How did you get around it?

Thanks, Nic

Try Egypt.. 800%

A carnet doesn't have to cost a fortune. I valued my bike at £1000 even though it was worth 2500.

As I went through Egypt, my carnet deposit/value was £8000 doh

I got a bank guarantee for the cash which cost me £170
The carnet document was £175 and the admin fee about £50

So, my whole carnet to travel Cairo to Cape cost about £400.

I think the "lady" might be mistaken.
My understanding: the carnet is an indemnity policy for customs duties and taxes, making it possible not to have to put up the entire amount of customs an duties.
I don't think anyone actually puts up the entire amount.
Carnet de Passages en Douane - Canadian Automobile Association | Association canadienne des automobilistes
I'm pretty sure the Auto associations in Europe, Australia, offer the same.
I'd be very surprised if South Africa wasn't the same.
Maybe I'm wrong, if so that would be a good reason to start the Trip in the USA or Canada with a US or Canadian registered bike.
Used bikes are much cheaper in the USA, that I do know.

About SE Asia: free travel with your own vehicle is severely restricted in that region (and so is travelling there from other parts of Asia).

If you want to do it easy & without carnet, I´d suggest to fly the bike into Bangkok, and then tour Thailand, Cambodia, Laos and possibly Malaysia, too (which is a carnet-country, but seemed quite relaxed about it at the land border with Thailand - but my info is from 3 years ago and things can change!)

Vietnam is very tough to get your foreign vehicle into, the same goes for China. you can, but it costs so much, that most travellers skip them. Myanmar/Burma, better forget it, unless you are a real expert and speak the languages and have unlimited time to keep trying!

Indonesia could be very tough without carnet, though it has been done (and unfortunately there have been examples of having difficulties entering WITH carnet!)... from Penang in Malaysia to Belawan in Sumatra should work with carnet. Also for India, you will need a carnet no matter how you enter.

So, 3 or 4 countries should be rather easily possible in that region, after that it gets progressively harder for you (and your wallet!!)

But I´ve done some of my best trips ever in those easily-doable countries mentioned.. and they´re more or less dirt cheap to travel, too, so I´d highly recommend to simply start from them, and then you´ll have a much better idea, what else you´ll want to see and do in that region!

Just in case you missed it, there's a pretty comprehensive guide to all things Carnet here...

Fantastic info', Ted. Thanks. :)

Do border control actually try and guage a value or will they accept whatever BS value you assign?

BP, it is quite possible that the lady is wrong. She seems to be the one in charge though and I got the impression she quite fancied herself as that and more too, unfortunately.

I'm not against starting elsewhere, but I would feel a bit more comfortable having some sort of support at the start in terms of setup, advice, etc. ...this is obviously a daunting challenge to even seasoned adventurers, I'm sure. I have been looking at the UK as a starting point but I will definitely spend some time exploring the American option. Thank you.

Good info' too, Pecha. Much appreciated.

What I'm henceforth refering to as the Asian corridor in my plans (Mongolia, China, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia) is still sitting strong in my desires list. One of the ideas I've had is to make a contact somewhere in that part of the world where I could leave my 'main' bike. I could then use a combination of public transport and a cheap 'local' bike to tour that area before returning to fetch the big bike for onward travel.

Thoughts?

PS: I did see that, thanks Iain. I'm slowly working my way through it but thought there might be more specific answers to the problems posed by my local AA. :)

If you want to go deep into Asia, and do as much of it overland as possible (while not doubling your mortgage at the same time, I mean!) I´d suggest to do some research on three "main" options:

1) Europe-Turkey-Iran-Pakistan-India and then ship to SE Asia. Plenty of options for that, but carnet will be required for Pakistan & India.

2) Europe-Russia-Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan (the ´Stans not necessarily in that order, and you could also enter them via Turkey & by ferry across the Caspian Sea).. and then ship the bike to SE Asia from, say, Almaty or Bishkek. A lot of hassle with the visas, and shipping could be expensive & a big pain, but you probably could do this without a carnet, provided you ship to Thailand, for example.

3) Europe-Russia (with possible detours to the Stans or Mongolia) to Vladivostok, and then to Korea or Japan & ship the bike to SE Asia from either one (which would probably be Korea right now, before Japan gets back on its feet). This will also require the carnet, but only if you go Japan. Shipping from Vladivostok might also be a possibility, but doesn´t seem to be widely used so there may be problems - maybe someone has better info on that?

Then there is also the option of going from Kyrgyzstan to China and then the Karakoram Highway into Pakistan, but this requires both entering China, and the carnet for Pakistan. But it doesn´t necessitate a long stay inside China, so might not totally cripple your budget, and this is probably why it has been used by a few travellers every year. But definitely not easy - I believe the #1 option is a breeze compared to this!

And like others have said, the carnet is not such a monster afterall, though the high values mentioned might scare you at first. On the plus side, it is usually arranged before you leave home. And once you have it, using it is pretty simple, so it´s something you won´t really have to worry about, while you´re on the trip (Unless you stay for over 1 year, of course!)

They have no interest in the bikes value. They have no idea how much a British DRZ400 is worth. In Africa, not one single officer even wanted to see the bike let alone chassis numbers or valuations. They just stamp it and let you go.

Once your value is accepted by the issuing authority (in my case the RAC), then that amount is taken as fact.

This is why you should have a cheap bike when using a carnet.. The bank guarantee is usually a % of the carnet amount. Mine was about 10% plus £70 fees. So if you have a 10,000 BMW the bank guarantee would of cost me 10 times more..

Insurance for Carnet de passage
 

To avoid the +400% cash deposit as guarantee required by some countries, there is usually an insurance scheme. Although it's not readily available to all FIA members, so check in your Carnet issuing country with the FIA member (ie. AA).

In Australia, NRMA (in NSW) provides insurance so you don't have to fork out the cash but you pay for the insurance service of course.

Just to clarify Pecha, a carnet is NOT required for Korea but IS for Japan.