Horizons Unlimited - The HUBB - World wide liability insurance

Horizons Unlimited - The HUBB (https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/)

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- - World wide liability insurance (https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/trip-paperwork/world-wide-liability-insurance-89522)

Still interested in discovering if there is a Central American country that does not require minimum liability insurance for a foreign tourist's motorcycle/vehicle. Please, Tommytrojan - keep us advised if you find one.

All tourist auto/moto insurance policies have a clause stating that the insured vehicle must be "legal" indicating a valid TVIP for the country, a valid title and registration, plates etc. Not having any of these is cause for the insurance company not to pay liabilities or bail you out of jail. And, yes in the event of serious personal injury, death or substantial property damage the insurance companies do investigate - before paying liabilities, while you sit in a foreign jail.

I may be one of the very few posting here who has - while working for the IRC, actually visited foreigners in foreign jails because of vehicle accidents. It is not a pleasant experience!

Without valid insurance a foreign tourist could remain in jail for months, even years while waiting for a judge to decide fault. The local police, even federal police generally arrest everyone involved in a serious accident and let the insurance companies and a judge sort out fault. And, most people will more readily blame a foreigner than a neighbor.

Hiring a foreign attorney after an accident - without having valid insurance - is a nightmare.
Just as in every country it is very difficult to determine which attorney to trust . So, please do not risk riding a motorcycle in a foreign country without a valid TVIP, legal title, registration, plates, and valid insurance.

It has been my experience - that other than suggesting an "attorney," your embassy may not be of much assistance. The IRC is very under funded and understaffed but does try to keep tract of foreigners in foreign jails, a very difficult task as some arrests are never officially reported as required by international law.

xfiltrate

I am very often quite blown away how people travel through some countries without paying the policy. In my experience, if my mind is pressured by thinking if I'm travelling and being not covered that the shit will hit the fence for sure. I am calling for a problem and probably will get one.
Not here advocating for this or that, just implying that there are cheaper places to safe the money instead of not getting the minimum insurance coverage.

BR
Dooby

Quote:

Originally Posted by xfiltrate (Post 550952)

Thanks for the detailed info. That is important advise since until you need it you don't realize your are missing something. I'll keep you posted what I find on my way down there as far as insurance requirements are concerned. Also, even in the US, the legally required minimum is laughable. It might be advisable to get a more realistic coverage. According to my insurance agent an umbrella policy will give me world wide 'excess' coverage. I'll study the fine print and I hope that it will kick in where the 'official' liability ends. And I also hope I will never need to get to that point to actually need it.

Cheers,
Thomas

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tommytrojan (Post 551029)

According to my insurance agent an umbrella policy will give me world wide 'excess' coverage.

I am not sure what this would cover you for but in the UK the excess is what you call the deductable in the US and might have no use or value at all without further local cover.

Just to add to Xfiltrate's remarks regarding insurance, the number of overlanders and travellers getting around with shonky papers is quite high and while nobody seems to care too much when things go OK, we can be pretty sure the unsurance companies and police know exactly what to look for when things go wrong.

Quote:

One of the main benefits of the convention for motorists is the obligation on signatory countries to recognize the legality of vehicles from other signatory countries. The following requirements must be met when driving outside the country of registration:

Cars must display their registration number at the front and rear, even if legislation in the jurisdiction of registration does not require a front vehicle registration plate on cars. Motorcycles need display their registration number only at the rear. Registration numbers must be composed either of numerals or of numerals and letters. They must be displayed in capital Latin characters and Arabic numerals. In addition to this, the registration number may optionally be displayed in a different alphabet.
A distinguishing sign of the country of registration must be displayed on the rear of the vehicle. This sign may either be placed separately from the registration plate or may be incorporated into the vehicle registration plate. When the distinguishing sign is incorporated into the registration plate, it must also appear on the front registration plate of the vehicle.[citation needed] The physical requirements for the separate sign are defined in Annex 3 of the convention, which states that it must comprise black writing on a white oval background and that it must not form part of the vehicle's registration number. In practice, the requirement to display the white oval is mutually waived between some countries, for example between the European Union countries (where the white oval may be substituted by a blue strip on the Vehicle registration plates of Europe),[2] and between Canada, the United States, and Mexico (where the province, state or district of registration is usually embossed or surface-printed on the vehicle registration plate).
The vehicle must meet all technical requirements to be legal for road use in the country of registration. Any conflicting technical requirements (e.g., right-hand-drive or left-hand-drive) in the signatory country where the vehicle is being driven do not apply. [My note - this does NOT mean that operational requirements such as triangles, extinguishers, first aid, reflectors, reflective vest, speed limits, alcohol limits cannot be enforced. They can!]
The driver must carry the vehicle's registration certificate, and if the vehicle is not registered in the name of an occupant of the vehicle (e.g., a hire car), proof of the driver's right to be in possession of the vehicle.

This is from Wikipedia but you can read the whole convention is you need to check. Seems to me that it is clear from this that false or cancelled license plates don't comply and neither do forged or non-original document. Further, if there are any smog checks, MOTs or TUV or road safety checks that haven't been carried out, or vehicle declared non-operational or SORNed then the registration is invalid, the TIP that was issued is invalid and any insurance you get based on these invalid documents and false swearing is also invalid.

So far Ecuador is the only country that specifically provides liability insurance for foreign cars legally in the country (although good luck in trying to get official confirmation that this is so), although supposedly Bolivia doesn't require liability insurance if you are in the country for less than 30 days and possibly Brazil has something similar but trouble is nobody has explained to me who carries the risk if you have a serious accident in those 30 days.

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There have been some very long discussions on a couple of international travel facebook groups concerning the problem of having valid insurance back in the country of registration. Some places insist on bundling domestic liability insurance in with the registration - eg Holland, some states in Australia, British Columbia etc etc so of course most travellers baulk at paying insurance while they are out of the country. In others, lack of MOT and TUV and similar automatically void registration. I think Switzerland has strict regulations on how long you can be away before registration is cancelled and plates have to be returned. Anyway, the big cry is well, since our country makes it impossible for us to retain legal registration if we are away for more than x years, then obviously we are FORCED (by our own country) to travel illegally and take our chances. Of course this is just nonsense because there are always legal alternatives INCLUDING of course just staying home, or where possible, buying a local vehicle legally and then selling it.

An After Thought....

Thanks Tony LEE,

* In after thought....In response to those wanting more detailed information, please see the recent post from Tony LEE and know when I was responsible for welfare checks on foreign inmates in foreign jails - of the many I interviewed, none, not one, was "well" and none had been treated "Fair !!!" So there was no "welfare" to speak of, just men and women - locked away and desperate, and my reports described some real horrors, unimaginable to those who frivolously ignore the risk to their freedom, by not taking the time to purchase valid vehicle/moto insurance and verifying all vehicle/moto documents are legal.

Do not provide your insurance company a reason to avoid paying your liabilities and your attorney and never give any government a reason to deny you freedom.

xfiltrate