The Future of Overland Travel?
 

Curious to gauge the opinion of the collective about where the future, long term, is for the internal combustion engine and overland travel.

As the legislative noose tightens around neck of diesel engines in the developed world, how will this trickle through globally? Will diesel still be the go to fuel in 15-20 years time for the independent traveller ? On an RtW trip, will cities become inaccessible without hybrid drivetrains or will classic exemptions see folk driving SIII and HJ60s?

The Future of Overland Travel?
 

I can tell you that here in Honduras it'll be a century unless the country is absorbed by a some continental mega-country. Same goes for Nicaragua, Guate and Mexico. The infrastructure doesn't exist and things are getting worse, not better, in these parts.

Agree with 31. Predictions 20 years into the future are seldom correct or close. In 1998 it would have been impossible to know that the US would have a black president, that Ford would no longer be making cars, that you would be considered old fashioned because you still had a land line, that electric cars and motorcycles are being discussed as the next new thing, that you could watch a movie while being in an moving car. Enjoy what you have today because you may not have a tomorrow.

The OP asks about diesel, not petrol. We're in the Four Wheels branch of the HUBB, where (maybe) diesel availability is important. For the majority of HUBB users--who travel by motorbike, not giant diesel trucks--not so much.

From my personal perch in the US of A, it doesn't really look like either form of fossil fuel is likely to go extinct within the next couple of decades--too much personal and business investment, and too much dedicated infrastructure. The people building multi-billion dollar pipelines and offshore drilling rigs are doing so because they think there's money to be made far into the future. I'm inclined to suspect they're correct, even when I don't favor their means of doing so.

Mark

Diesel is a bit overrated.

There are already enough issues if you take the newest Euro 6 diesel and fill up with poor diesel.

Yeah an old diesel is nice for overlanding but they are dying out. Or just to old for people to choose them.

Petrol is fine, there is no real need for diesel.

By the way, there was a Swiss couple who went through Central Asia in a f...... Tesla Model S !

It will be fine.

Yes. And Dutch students went RTW on a custom electrical motorcycle. A Belgian girl went Brussels to Istanbul and back on a Zero electrical motorcycle. It's all possible, you just need to adapt your expectations and pace.

I have an old Land Rover with a 200 tdi diesel. If someone develops a bolt-in crate engine that replaces diesel/petrol engines and gives similar performance and range for a reasonable amount of money, I might go for it.

Unless you are actually travelling outside N. America, the EU or Australia, for real. Then an "old diesel" or Euro 3 or earlier is actually essential, the alternative sometime being low octane petrol that can ruin a modern engine. And/or can rapidly deplete one's bank account, example being petrol powered Soviet trucks that get 1.7km/L (4mi/US gal) as compared to 9 mi/US gal in Euro 3 quasi modern diesel that can still use high sulfur diesel.

For me the big trucks already consume a lot. On the big trucks I agree with you.

I have had a Landcruiser and now a 4x4 Hiace, both the simple old diesels. I love there simplicity.
However Im not a huge fan of the engine noise, even after sound proofing.
I think the next time I would buy something on petrol or LPG (extra range). This makes it more practical in West Europe too with all the zones.

Hell I would even think of a hybrid SUV, like a Lexus RX450h. Sure no real 4x4 but it is automatic and has frontwheel drive with electric motors on the rear wheels. Plenty of grip, fuel efficiënt and it will be one of the most comfortable vehicles.

I saw this thread of the guys who went to Africa with relatively modern petrol Jeeps. They did Africa North to South over West side, and they could get Euro95.
I guess a second fuel tank would be nice to ensure you reach the next place / big city
Because youre not going to find euro95 in the middle of nowhere.

By the way, there was this British guy in a diesel van, he drove to India only on give away used vegatable oil. So the possibilities are endless :P

Yeah but he needed an engine rebuild in New Delhi because the veg oil caused his lube oil to literally turn into to gel and and he didn’t change it.

Hahaha okay it sounds like you could expect such a thing with that kind of use.
Anyway, I meant it more like what is possible.

Writing you from Uzbekistan where there is little diesel :)
Got some GPS coordinates and was able to find some.

Interesting set of replies, using petrol wasn't something I'd considered although outside the big SUV range not sure i've seen many vehicles(UK based), that give proper 4wd and the sort of load capacity that is preferable.

Equally many modern petrol engines aren't any better on low grade fuel than a modern CRD diesel. Probably take the view of going with an Euro 4/5 diesel extra cab pick up and just see where fuel globally ends up. Suspect high sulfur issues will reduce(marine users won't be able to use this shortly so its market is diminishing).

Well, for pickups, you usually have a petrol choice, usually with same load rating (same chassis). Although petrol versions are a bit hard to find, they are there. There are many occasions where you get more power as well.
Or you could look at US models, which have big simple petrol versions. Could be a Toyota Tundra as well.

Having something on petrol and CNG would work quite nicely as well in some continents (not in Africa). But then you want a full tank of petrol and full tank of CNG, anything else would not do. LPG is not so supported globally.

For myself, I'm done with the old diesels because they are noisy, and the new ones can't take the bad fuel. I'm into 4wd vans, so there are options. Although a bit hard to find, same like petrol pickups. But I'm looking forward to driving something that has plenty of power, so I don't have to drive slow on a steep highway, or have to skip that big sand dune because I just don't have the power :P Not really a problem for overlanding in general.

The future is now...


https://plugmeinproject.com/

Yes. And the Rivian truck is coming with an option for a huge battery pack that will have a range of 800 to 1000km. That means your pretty free in chosing your route amd bushcamping and what not, you just gotto find a plug.
Obviously it is still way to expensive and it needs to get down to an acceptable second hand market.
But for the trips we have done, the range is very acceptable and would not have been an issue.

Who is really sustaining you? All these donors... Conservation of energy, it doesn’t come from nothing. And how much fossil fuel is used in the generation of electricity in various countries?

Valid point. I have even seen small island which had a huge diesel generator, might as well run on diesel straight away :P
And you could also wonder why you would go through a gas power plant if the stuff can be burned in cars right away (many CNG cars these days).
However, there are more and more renewable energy plants being installed everywhere, so that is the direction we are heading. It does vary a lot. Just look at Europe. One country uses only coal, Denmark is using almost only wind power.

But the efficiency of an electric vehicle is hard to beat.

Coal is the source of over 70% of electricity in both India and China. Electric vehicles do not make sense there yet.

I'm not sure that this follows. Coal is destructive--no doubt about it. But does that mean that gasoline, diesel, LNG, LPG, or others are better fuels? Say, better for the earth? Better for the user? Better for bystanders? Better for local people who get caught up in resource-based wars, profiteering, corruption or oppression?

As far as I can tell, all fuels have their drawbacks. There is a case to be made for electricity: its end-use is clean and efficient. Do these advantages still apply if that electricity is produced by coal? Maybe, maybe not. I wouldn't rule it out just because I don't like coal.

Hey, I don't like copper mines either, or aluminum smelting, or massive dams; does that rule out solar, wind, or hydro power? I don't like fracking, and I sure don't like the geopolitical aspects of big oil; what's that say about burning methane, propane, natural gas, petrol or diesel?

Just trying to notice that things are seldom simple, e.g., "If coal is bad, so are electric vehicles using coal-generated electricity."

Mark

If you are talking about CO2 emissions and global warming, then yes. (but China has the biggest plans, they roll out more solar panel plants in one year than Europe had built combined)

If you are talking about local emission in those smog cities of Asia, it makes a big difference.
They are also closing down industries to close to the city etc.

It seems more cities will be banned to enter with diesel engined vehicles in next decades.

Big brands still manufacture diesel engined cars, vans and trucks especially... And seems they will continue to manufacture.

When 100 liter petrol is refined we have 18 liter of diesel. What to do that after stopping the usage of diesel?

After 20-30 years, we will still have diesel with less availability, more expensive and less cities/countries...

And we all will be 20-30 years elder...

So no problem...

It will be problem of next generation

@Samy: It is already a problem now as far as I am concered. There are many different versions of diesel around the world, and engines that can handle it. Yes the oldest diesel engines can take it, but the new stuff cannot.

If you are talking about 20 to 30 years span, the availability of simple diesel cars (4x4 or not) will get pretty bad. What will be available is what is sold in the last 10 years or what is to come, which to me is pretty unsuitable for overlanding because of the bad fuel quality in many places.
I like a new Mercedes Sprinter, but I would not like to take it on our past two trips we did before, with that bad diesel.

So at this point in time it is already difficult to find, for example, a good 4x4 that uses a simple diesel engine, that isn't to old/rusted yet.
Petrol needs to be of a certain quality to run any petrol engine. And although it exists that you can find 80 octane fuel, it is really rare to find only that, you always find 92 or 95 octane fuel. And most cars will run on that, also pretty much any modern car.

And it is always easier to find petrol than diesel.

Or you can do as these guys, build a solar rack on this goofy electric van, take it easy and enjoy free driving range, without any dependency.
(But most people, including me, want to travel faster)
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/pcj2lQwH7N4/maxresdefault.jpg

Interesting project - an electric car plus "I travel without money and rely on the kindness of people". He does seem to have made it to Oz though so that must say something about the kindness of strangers.

I passed someone recently trying to do doing a shorter UK version on a bicycle. He had a cardboard sign hanging from the bike saying something like 'LeJog (or JoGLe as he was going south) without money, please help".

Whether he was doing it for some charity's benefit or just because he needed to get there and didn't have any money the sign didn't say.

I suspect that, like now with petrol or diesel, the future will also have a choice - battery powered electric vehicles or hydrogen fuel cell powered electric vehicles. The use of petrol and diesel is likely to continue for some time as mainstream fuels in the developing world due to the cost of rolling out new infrastructures for battery recharging and hydrogen refuelling. The internal combustion engine is likely to disappear as choice for new vehicles quite soon in many markets due to the pollution they cause.

In the UK they are getting concerned about the pollution caused by the wear of tyres and brakes. Our old machines using fossil fuels will, in time, become as rare a sight as steam powered traction engines are now.

Maybe I don’t get it, or maybe I do. In the USA 63% of electricity is fossil fuel. Where does the electricity for hydrolysis of water for hydrogen vehicles come from? Until the grids worldwide wean off fossil fuel (as previously stated India/China are >70%) there’s a bit of a problem calling electric vehicles “carbon neutral”. And still a place for the IC engine especially burning things like algae derived hydrocarbons. Solar of course being the energy source.
I do admit I am fixated on climate change.

Remember when there was leaded gas in all pumps at all stations ? Along came some pie in the sky dreamers trying to destroy the world who demanded that lead be removed? Too expensive, no pumps for unleaded existed, no one would risk their engines to unleaded gas. Big Brother government bureaucrats came along and required all stations to have one pump for unleaded gas.:rain::(. These days, almost all cars and bikes run on unleaded. Change can start slow and pick up speed. Once it gets to a breaking point there is no turning back.