What 4x4
 

Hi Guys
I'm planning a trip to Marroco in the near future and am now thinking about what 4x4 to get,I have a disco TD5 and have done a lot of trips in it all over Europe including the easten block and it I can honestly say it didn't miss a beat fully loaded up towing a converted sankey trailer with 2 adults 3 kids and 2 dogs,not just road driving some very hard going mountain tracks and green lanes,But I am going alone on this trip so am looking for somthing smaller but still good off road.I've been looking at

Mitsubishi Pinn?

Mitsubishi pajero short wheel base (I know these engines)

Land rover freelander (not sure if it will cope)

Nissan patrol short wheel base

Lada Niva (had one of these years ago for messing around on salisbury plan (good off road crap on)

3 seires land rover short wheel base (Again I know these well)

Can you think of any other to look at and what would you go for and why?

From your level of satisfaction with your TD5, I would go with that.
It's a vehicle that you already own, and you know it well presumably.

Your post is mildly interesting; it's nature is as per:-

"Which Bike? (228 Viewing)

Comments and Questions on what is the best bike for YOU, for YOUR trip. Note that we believe that ANY bike will do, so please remember that it's all down to PERSONAL OPINION." --- abstracted from the sub-forum within here.

But such a subbie forum doesn't appear herein; it's mildly of interest to me because I asked a quite similar series of questions perhaps a couple of years ago but without naming such a range of specific vehicles.
Somewhere in here, probably in the new subbie for "light vehicles", there is discussion of the Freelander for instance.
A search of that key word should find that if it is of interest.

Yeah why not just take your TD5? You are familiar with it and seem pretty content with it's abilities and performance.

If I was doing that journey I'd go with a Patrol 3.0Di or a Landcruiser 4.2TD, but since you mentioned a smaller vehicle, I'd probably go with (nobody laugh) the Suzuki Vitara, had a three door V6 one years ago, was a proper dog of a car that I basically used as a pub/train station car, was great offroad and in the snow, I didn't really look after it properly and nothing ever broke.

My experiences with Pajero might be sort of relevant as I've used them here in the UAE and they are pretty woeful in the desert, the gearing seems wrong for sand driving and the engine isn't responsive enough or have enough torque for the job but that may be down to the crap engines they import them with here, I guess in Europe you'd get a decent modern turbo diesel.

I see your point about my td5 but the problem is my wife needs it we now have 4 kids and 2 dogs so she needs it when I'm away,Plus it's just me so I don't need such a big battle bus.

Ah yes! That is very different and your points about the TD5 become irrelevant -------- you want, or need, a second vehicle.
Perhaps a people carrier/SUV type road-goer for the wife, kids and dogs while you retain hold of the TD5?

I know your conumdrum quite well and it does come down to having a baseline of vehicles (in my case both 2 and 4 wheels) for various purposes.
Defining the range of purposes can be a tad problematical though.

Exactly, The thing is we all love Overlandingand the td5 is great with the 7 forward facing seats of wich we use 6 so still have some load space So we will be keeping it I just want somthing small for lone adventures.
I have been looking at pick ups as well we used them in Namibia for two months it was a Nissan it was O.K a bit under powered but it did the job.

Bear with me, I've done the search and here is what was said, all of 3 years ago, about the Freelander:-
http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...eelander-61321

I also found another thread, in the plural, about the same vehicle.
http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...elanders-56643

As ever, "can they cope" is answered by "what do you want to do?"

The first thing Id be thinking is 'Which vehicle do I NOT want to drive across Europe twice - 1500 miles each way'

From that Id discount the Series Land Rover and the Lada Niva

As for the Freelander, not bad, ok on the motorways, but the lack of ground clearance will limit where you can get to, after that, the rest are not too different, Id figure out which cruises on the motorways the quietest and returns the best fuel consumption, Id say the Pajero or Patrol would be the nicest to drive across Europe out of your list, but as the guys mention the Patrol is a bit of a dog in sand, but the majority of Morocco pistes are gravel/rocky, unless you head South.

A Vitara would be a lot of fun and cheap to do the trip and with a set of mud terrains surprisingly capable, how about a Hilux too ? as later model as you can afford with a 5 speed box......

How about a landcruiser 90 Prado SWB? Hilux Surf? go pretty cheap now

Unless you are looking to go seriously "off road" , by which i mean "off track" which in almost any country is not the usual means of going anywhere , it is more akin to trialling or camel trophy special sections, then
a TD4 Freelander , or even Honda CRV would be a good possible . Most of your mileage is going to be motorway getting there. When you are there it will be a mix of bitumen and tracks , which most locals will not be using 4wd . I have used a vitara 2ltr swb across Australia pulling a lightweight camping trailer . They work quite well on sand /beach especially if you air down the tyres , but leave the aircon off as they ( as well as most 4wd) will overheat
with aircon and soft sand at same time.
Niva would handle anything in Morroco but you have to get there , and they aren't the most comfortable long distance tourer , and have owned one in the past . Series landrover much the same as a Niva. In the end its what your personal preferences are . HTSLH

I see a few people talking about Vitaras and it may well be a good option I will look in to them a bit more.
Thanks

Suzi Vitara gets my vote...cheap and good enough for most things

Then again, it has been pointed out that Hilux Surf's are cheap..and they are even more capable in 3ltr guise. Its what i trust for my RTW trip.

In general terms 4x4s are inherently expensive to buy, insure, maintain and fuel so why not use the disco for your trip and get a 'normal' car for the missus (and you when the need arises) to scoot about in with the kids, or maybe a people carrier like a galaxy or one of them VW things, Sharran or something is it? My mates got one and I was highly impressed. very versatile, has loads of seats and luggage room, and one day we needed the space so he took all the seats out and turned it into a van, took him about a minute!! fantastic motor.

The most important thing with any overlander isn't what type, make or model it is, it's that you know the vehicle and have history in it, and from that point of view, the disco fits the bill (and as regulars on here will know, I am not a fan of the TD5 disco). I've overlanded on my own in a landcruiser so a disco is definitely not too big!! Take a vehicle you know and trust, not something new and untested.

I'm in talks withe the boss now but I think she agrees that you guys are right and I should just stick with what I know and go with my DISCO will just have to fit some under body potection and away I shall go.

Why? That's not a facetious question, if you drive with sympathy I don't see a D2 needing any for Morocco tracks. The locals don't have any on their Peugeot 205's or MB308 vans:smartass:

Because the D2 is surprisingly unprotected with exsposed sumps and oil filter it only takes one stone for you to have a very bad day When you look at the jap motors they come with at least sump gaurds.Really it's just peace of mind.and the 5 P's

Ah, OK, a little surprised to be honest but as you say peace of mind. So worth investing some time and money I guess.

I have to chuckle really - I get all the arguments but keep thinking back to a trip through the Pyrenees - yes I know, not quite the same terrain - there we were all rigged up with big bad 4x4's and we kept being overtaken on the mountain tracks and trails by little Fiat Pandas ... :) who's drivers must have had a few giggles ...

Anyway - good travels - hope all the excitement is due to the scenery and not 'happenings'!

Dont take this the wrong way , but your not doing the Dakar . The discovery
doesnt need sump guards etc . The basic vehicle is perfectly adequate .
The only thing you might consider is track rod protection , apart from that
everything else is up out of the way . Remember you need to drive the vehicle home , unless you are setting out to try and do something like Ladoga JMHO

Friend of mine did Marocco in a Vitara and it worked fine. The downside was the drive from NL to marocco. Fuel consumption was bad, high speed was similar of a push bike and comfort was .. none. But once in marocco he smiled while I was suffering and stuck in the sand with my VW mkII Golf . He had to pull me out all the time. But it was fun for both of us :)

Fortune and Glory, kid. Fortune and Glory.

Not taking it the wrong way and I know I'm not doing the dakar.

But I have had brake downs when driving on tracks in both Namibia and in europe working as a gamekeeper spending 90% of my time driving on bad tracks.In landys and Jap car the landys had no protection so wher prone to being damaged so a little protection o the discovery will go a long way to reducing the risk,Apart from that the disco is standard and I am more than happy to go traveling any where in it.

I used to have a fiat panda 4x4 whilst in Italy so I know them well,they do get much futher than you would think they can but put some weight in them and thats it you are stuck.

you don't have to be doing the paris dakar to have underbody protection. it's just insurance. a lot of the tracks are very rocky and there's nothing wrong with having a bit of protection against possible damage. If people don't want it, thats fine, thats their choice, I've never had it either, but would have felt a bit more comfortable on occassions if I had it, but lets not give someone a hard time just because they want to protect their valuable vehicle that also happens to be their daily driver ffs!!

This is a really relevant dilemma for us...

We ideally want a Land Cruiser 100 series for the big trip to Aus, but can't help but notice a Hilux or Mitsubishi 4 door pickup can be had with a lot less miles for half the price.

Or for that matter, a low miles 4wd car we'd be happy to use as a daily driver into the city for many years after we get there, Volvo XC70, Audi A6 Allroad, BMW X5, etc , also low miles and less money by far.

Now we get all the arguments about a LC being the beast of choice for off road, but we really don't want to do that very much unless we have to. I can see it being immensely helpful in places like Mongolia, the Pamir highway, or Laos. But not really elsewhere?

So is it worth it to buy the offroad ability when most of an overland trip is planned to be onroad, or on rough tracks at worst?

A LC isnt mandatory , a "lesser" 4wd would suffice , but some 4wd are not that ideal for the trip. eg the X5 , mainly from a tyre /wheel point of view.
Going further along the cost/capability line, then a van with reasonable ground clearance would do just as well. The 4wd thing can be a must depending on what you intend and roads/tracks you wish to traverse at what times of year . You also need to consider the tech level /fragility of the vehicle . HTSH

you'll only take an x5 off road once!!! honestly, most 2wd cars are more capable!!
Parts availability and having a vehicle familiar to local spanner twirlers is also important, and on that score it's hard to argue against a hilux. they are known all over the world, more so than landcruisers and landrovers

Just keep in mind getting parts for some of those other choices might be difficult in some remote areas, where as LC parts you can generally get anywhere.

I couldn't possibly recommend you take an A6 Allroad, unless it's very new, and I work for Audi! Suspension problems galore on older models. X5 won't be any good.

Volvo XC70/90 surprisingly not bad, quite reliable too just poor fuel economy and again the issue with parts if you do break something you will be there for days just waiting for parts.

LC is a great overlander, it's actually a great vehicle in general for anything, just pricey. As you mentioned you can get a Hilux for a lot cheaper, but I would say don't shy away from mileage/KM too much on an LC as long as it's been maintained properly and you check it out thoroughly and drive it a bit before you begin any big adventure it shouldn't give you much trouble.

Older XC90's have some reputation for gearbox issues which could be awkward in the boonies.

I think also with the newer cars you ned to think about fuel quality in some of these places.and also taking a diagnostic tool so you can find out what the problem is and wipe errors if it's just some random fault.

This is true of true of the locals all over the world, and it does make you feel like a plank at times, but in Morocco for instance, when we're out playing in the dunes or cross-axled in dried up wadis, there isn't an 'African taxi' (a Peugeot 504) in sight.

Most 4x4 owners I know drive them because they can go places that ordinary cars can get to, like mountainous regions, and with all the skill in the world a two-wheel-drive car can't climb without running out of traction (especially when it's loose terrain or wet/icy) ... not to mention puff!!!