affordable tour organiser for China
 

Does anyone know a tour organiser who can arrange paperwork and travel permits for China Tibet at a reasonable rate. We are a group of six trying to organise a ride but being quoted US$6600 P/P just for paperwork guide and vehicle?:eek3:

Maybe try CITS
 

Hi Stephen,

I'd looked at a China leg for a RTW next year.

It got a tad too expensive to do on my own bike ( bit big it seems ! ) , but for 6 the price might be much better than what you'd mentioned.

The Compnay was China International Travel service, agent contact was Shu Yu( [shuyu [*AATT*] cits {*DoTT*} com {*DoTT*} cn ).

Do you have dates and itinerary etc. sorted ??

Cheers !
Frank.

Thanks for that. will try him, but you can't hold your breath with CITS. We plan to start in April-May 2010 and have an itinerary for China but will default to Vladivostok if we don't get a reasonable price.

China next year
 

Hi Simon,

Please keep in touch as your dates match my RTW plan and if China works then I'd like to throw my hat in with your group. I had Vietnam included in that run, but now plan to do both countries another time and instead freight from Bankok to Dhaka.

I've traveled to China a few times, had a good itinerary and have reasonable language skills, the thing about CITS and CTS is they are both 'part of the system", so when they put their name on a booking, it should be good.

Over the years I've seen some others that were anything but !.

Cheers and hope it works-out !

Frank :)

6 of us, in cars, have just crossed China using:

China Adventure Tour, trekking, overland, festivals, special travel – NAVO

Tracy our guide was excellent! Between mine & my mates car being dumped in Kazakhstan and her having to organise a long distance taxi driver, writing a contract which could be tested, delays, sickness and me leaving in Kunming and her organising flights.....

The price was good and they can be flexible with the import duties for small groups.

I would highly recommend them!

Hi Frank

Tried the CITS people in Beijing after they were recommended by the Chinese Aust. Ambassador. Good for about 5 Emails but when it got down to the nitty gritty of organising things he just stopped responding to my Emails. I guess the Government employees do not really have to work if they do not want to as they get paid regardless. We have decided not to bother with China which is a pity but easier. We are going to ship to Japan instead and make our way across via Russia and Mongolia. We did alot of working out itineraries etc. with "Echo" from Plateau Tours who was good but just could not get the price for paper work within reasonable range. At one stage we looked at crossing into China from Laos, instead of Shanghai Thus cutting our planned time in China in half but this was still going to be over US$4000 p.p.

Simon

Me too!!!
 

Hello everyone from Spain!

I'm planning on travelling though China next year as well for my RW project. My ideal itinerary would be entering the country (sept 5th - 10th) through Mongolia (Shainshan) and doing Beijing, Xian, Lanzhou, Lhasa, Bhutan and Katmandhu, and then heading South o India.
Please let me know your thoughts and itinerary, I think it could be really interesting to organize a trip together, departuring, for example, from Ulanbataar.
Please write to yo (at) saliadarunavuelta (dot) com for details.

Transit china
 

Hi I would like to transit China ...my ideal route and dates would be Khazakstan in Laos out or Mongolia in Loas out. Dates would be July 2010. I tried 2 years ago to get together a group to share costs but it never happened. Anyone initially intereted?.

Jimmy

Hi there
 

Hi from Spain

I am extremely interested in joining a group to share guide expenses.
Please see bellow my suggested itineraries for the summe of 2010. I prefer itinerary one. I can take care of the organization. Please feel free to comment or suggest a new itinerary.

summer 2010 - Google Maps

link

Re Getting a small group together...
 

Hmm Well this is where the decisions start. Since we will be paying by the day for a guide we have to decide what budget is affordable. I have no idea how much per day ... The minimum time to transit is 2 weeks I would have thought....If going for minimum time in China I would try to avoid big cities. There is a tour company see link Driving in China, from Erenhot to Laos, North to South China Offeringa similar route to your route 2. They schedule 21 days I have not mailed them re price..I will do now, and ask the minimum numbers and max and if they will run to the groups timetable. Anyone else interested?.

Jimmy

jimmy46, please let me know as soon as you have a budget.

Just a thought: We could simply try to cross the border in a truck or something, and if that doesn't work, ship the bikes in Mongolia to India(?) and cross China by bus and train. If guide prizes get too serious, that'll be my best shot.

Here is the reply to my enquiry

Dear jimmy,
Thanks for choosing NAVO as your China in-country consultant! NAVO is a Chinese qualified travel agency since 1993.

I’m Karen work for NAVO in the English center. And One of my main jobs is arranging the foreigners driving their own motorcycle in China. Please see our 2009 motorcycle tour pictures.
Photos BMW motorbike self-driving from London to Beijing 2009
Photos BMW motorcycle driving from Switzerland to China 2009

About how to arrange the self-driving tour in China:

The self-driving tour in China have many process need us to deal with, please see the FAQ of the self-driving tour in the attachment. Although it seems very long, but it do real helpful for you to know more about how to do the self-driving tour in China.

About the itinerary of the motorcycle tour in China:

We both know that motorcycle tour is different from other kind of self-driving tour. Because in China, the motorcycle is not allowed to drive on highway and it makes the riders feel uncomfortable when driving across the big cities of China. Because they might stopped several times when diving on the National Road. And this is the main reason that why the motorcycle can’t driving very fast in China through some big cities..

About the NAVO’s suggestion:

Honestly, if you travel by your own motorcycle in China, NAVO can also help to arrange it, but it would cost a very high price (it’s required to equipped the foreign self-driving team with a in-country guide, and for this group, it’s also need a guide vehicle). So the best way for you to travel in China is to join a larger group. So far, I have no recommend group for you to join in because there is no larger motorycycle group plan to do the itinerary from Erenhot-Mohan. I will keep an eye on this and update the news if there are suitable teams which you can join.

About the NAVO’s quote:
As self-driving tour is very special, and we need to know the exact number of the vehicle and guests as well as the itinerary that we can give out a quote.

Please feel free to contact me if have any question!

Best regards!

Karen

I will ask for a costing based on two weeks transit mangolia to Laos 4 travellers and ask cost implications of ma smaller and bigger party. Will post reply here. I have an open view on budget...can afford most scenarios.


Re the lorry and smuggling, it has been done and am sure will in the future see www.slowbikes.com Jakes trip...The fall back for me would be turn round and tour balken states or other and home



Other possibilities are ride my bike to border and swap with north bound rider on chinese regitered bike..long shot but maybe ...


Any thoughts?

Jimmy

mhmhm
 

As it happens in most comunist regimes, China is abusing of tourism by forbidding free transit. I feel abused. Let's wait for your contact's reply. If the budget sounds reasonable, I'll go for it. If not, perhaps I'll simply postpone the decission until I reach Mongolia, and I'll keep calling and emailing and faxing the Chinese embassy in Madrid. If by then frontiers are open, I'll cross China. If they're closed, I'll send my bike to India and I'll travel by myself all the way down in public transportation. But paying nomater what for being escorted, doesn't seem to be fair play for me.

Let me know your thoughts about it.

It's not so much the paying for an escort, its the money they charge. The actual guide gets a pittance. So either the agency is an arm of the government or its just a revenue (TAX), collector.
How the hell do you justify $100 per day in a land where most don't earn that in a month?

The rules on being escorted are just for tax. Go by bicycle or public transport or walk:eek3: and you need no escort.

John.

...
 

My point.
Precisely.
Exactly.
There you have it.

Hi there
although I haven't been to China myself, having spent the last few months in the 'Stans and Mongolia I have met quite a lot of people who have gone that way. if you are still looking for more price quotes then read on

a Swiss truck and Australian van crossed out of here (Mongolia) into China last week- they seemed to have a reasonable price- though the contact email for the guy is not a proper company one- it seems like he does a good job - Mr Wang Lun
nature then underscore then lunwang [*AAT*] the hot place (you know the one)

one thing to be aware of is that many people who are doing the longer routes across China have been finding the travel taking longer than expected due to poor road conditions and major roadworks. They have been riding and driving for very long days to cover the distance and get across in the allotted number of days. So take this into consideration when you are planning your time in China.
Good luck.

yeah!!
 

I've contacted Mr. Wang Lun.
I'll keep you informed.

Thanks.

Hi,

I'd be keen to see what Mr. Wang Lun offers. I have had a few quotes from others and they are not worth considering. I noted that one tour operator states in their quote that you now have to leave a substantial deposit on your motor bike at the border that is redeemable when you leave. Though not immediately.
Anybody else out there come across this yet?

Simon

I would also add that if you go on these escorted tours, they want to control everything... even where you eat ffs:nono:

I personally, would not want to do a "tour" with more than 2. You will meet no one and will only see what they want to show you. We had a guide only for the start and end of our trip and they were a pain. When you go to an eating house, the prices go up. Its almost like they tell them that you are rich western tourist and you can pay.

The best guy we found was Abdul Wahab. He just escorts you and does not organise the life out of it.
That said, its still better running free:mchappy:
I have put a little bit of the Chinese KKH on youtube

John

Wait A Minute!!!
 

Hey!! Redboots!!!! Wait JUST A SECOND.
I read this from you:

> We had a guide only for the start and end of our trip and they were a pain.

What!? How did you manage to do this? You mean you can pay a guy just to cross the border and then soar freely through China?. Please explain a bit this.

That was SUPPOSED to be the deal! Guide to get in and processed and escorted to Urumqi, (Wulumuqi) a and them free to go.
When we got to Urumqi we were met by someone we had never spoken to and told to pay another $3000 for the rest of our trip!!!
The woman that we had dealt with via email and phone was nowhere to be found... strangely:nono:

We did some maint on the bikes the next day and the day after we left town at 6AM before anyone could stop us and legged it. We took a different route to that that we had said we were taking.

We were unable to exit though because the "agent" had the bike import docs.... so we had to pay-up $1500 to be processed out - with a guide.

John

anyone?
 

- Anyone has been thorugh this scam?
- Anyone knows of any agency that does this correctly? (escorting tourist through frontiers only)

Forget China on a big bike. If you want to ride there just fly to Kunming or Chengdu and buy a joint venture 250 cc (Suzuki) and drive it till it kicks or you do. Then store it or sell it back and go on with your trip. Going with someone who can talk and read is helpful.
Steve Moore lived and worked in Kunming for two years.:clap:

Weird reply from Mr. Wang Lun
 

Thanks a lot for your email to me and I personally welcome you to China in 2010.

I know the rout from the pass of Erlianhot in Mongolia to Laos via the pass of Mohan and I have many groups go this rout to cross China every year.

For the motorbike to enter China should be no any problem from any pass, but I have a problem to arrange this tour. you know every motorbike group- or car-driving tour in China must has a guide to go with the group from border to border. If you have a car to offer one seat for the guide, it is no any problem, but if only the motobike, I think there is no seat for the guide and the guide can not drive the motorbike to go with you, this is the big problem for the motorbike group in China.

Do you have any idea to arrange the seat for the guide?

Thanks & Best Regards.

Wang Lun



WTF??!??! What do I answer back to Mr. Wang Lun???!??!

Ok anyone fancy transiting China in their 4x4?
 

Well I sort of thought this would happen. I have heard of people having to fund a car and driver for the guide!!! ( because of course the guide could not drive) Hmm so all you adventurous 4x4 travellers heres your chance to share a guide...Mr Wang Lun needs a lift...Don't all volunteer at once !!!

Jimmy

WTF??!??! What do I answer back to Mr. Wang Lun???!??!
 

Gracias pero no gracias. All these tour operators are rip off merchants who are running a cartel buisiness on the back of a government that represses freedoms

mhmhmh
 

OK, Simon, as far as I see it, our only solution is shipping the bike down to India and travelling south either on a Chinese bike or on public transportation. Or else trying to smuggle the bike into China in a truck.

I've answered back Wang Lun offering him the possibility of escorting us just in the frontiers, but he doesn't seem to be interested.

From what I have seen so far most people cross in China at Kashgar and then go to Pakistan. This gives the shortest route and seems to be the least expensive.I wouldn't be bothered with the problems associated with anything else

Simon

--
 

I've contacted the guy from panomoto.com. He's done just what you're saying.
> We were 2 people, and for 3 days of riding in China we paid US$700 each.
> Good tour operator is Kashgar Newland Travel - they are VERY reliable and
> professional:
> taherbasecamp@hotmail.com

I'm reconsidering my route. I really wanted to visit Mongolia, but it looks rather complicated.

He's not allowed to offer just that service. He would loose his guide license.

One of the things that makes it so expensive for bikers is that the guide has to have a hire car and a driver. Seems most of the guides don't have (reliable?) cars. This also means you pay hotel and food for 2 people... and yourself.

I spoke to a group of Swiss that toured in a mobile home and the guide (Newlands Travel) rode in the camper they dined where they wanted.
As stated by others, Newlands seems to be the most honest and accommodating, but still has to work within the laws/rules that prevail.

On the shipping to India idea, it would be better to ship to Pakistan if you are thinking of trucks. Lots of Chinese trucks ply the KKH to Sost, but I have no idea how you would find out about that.

Best of....
John

Is Newlands now Deadlands?
 

Hi Redboots,
do you have a current address for Newlands, all there web sites come up as non existent, maybe they have been closed down?

Simon

Agents
 

Newland is apparently down, at least the site. Sorry, I can't provide a phone numer.


These are the agents who say they can, with newland down at the moment.

http://www.newlandtravel.net/

::Foreign Vehicle Entry & Travel: China, Xinjiang, license, permits, Torugart Pass, Irkeshtam Pass, Khunerab Pass, Karakoram Highway, Pakistan::

http://johncafe.net/admin/news/newscn33.htm

Xinjiang China Silk Road Adventure Travel Guide Tour Service Urumqi Xinjiang China tours guide tour operator


These are some guys who may be able to guide you to other agents:

SW China & Tibet Specialists - Haiwei Trails

Hidden China GmbH - Individuelle Touren, klassische Reisen, Abenteuerreisen, Gruppenreisen, Trekking, 4WD und Motorrad Reisen in China, Tibet und der Mongolei


Good luck

Just dug these out of my archives:


Kashgar New Land TravelTel: 0998-2535278, 2523325, 2524505
E-mail: newlandtravel@hotmail.com
Fax: 0998-2535277
webmaster@newlandtravel.net

P.S. Political highly sensitive days, these days. This may be the reason why they are down.

Thank you kindly for all the links. I will do a bit more planning and quotation hunting.

Simon

Sorry for the late/none reply... been away. Anyway, the info already given is what I have, but I have just remembered on other contact...

JOHN of John's Cafe in Kashgar. He operates out of the Semen Hotel and as the name suggests, has a cafe. Abdul Wahab of Newlands travel used to operate out of the same hotel so I'm sure if you contact them they will tell you if he is still about. Maybe they do the guide service as well now... either way it cant hurt to contact them and John can point you in the right direction.

John

Seamen Hotel.

I'm currently in Kyrgyzstan and have been trying to arrange the China crossing for about 3 months now (unsuccessfully). As far as I know, most agents still operate (I am in touch with Taher - sort of). The problem is that Phone calls, fax, email, internet - anything - from abroad to Xinjiang and vice versa is blocked at the moment. So in order to arrange things I am sending my stuff to a chinese friend of mine in Germany, who in turn has friends in China. From some provinces within China it is possible to call Xinjiang, and thus going back and forth like that it looks like I will be able to arrange things. I am also told that it should be possible to call the agents once you are in China, and try to sort things out from there. Not neccessarily riding yourself, but maybe putting the bike on a truck from Kashgar to Sost (Pakistan). I'll let you know how it goes ... keep your fingers crossed for me :-)

I,m alive .
 

Hi there , dear Friends , sorry the disappearing , since last July Internet is unavailable ,so I have now way to update any informations either coordinate , right now Every things are fine here , internet avaialble same as usual , you can acess here .

any information needs , please feel free contact to me


Cheers Taher :scooter:

If you are interested in riding Sidecars, in detail a Chang Jiang 750 (Copy of the BMW R 71) in Tibet. I have some of them in Lhasa and can organise a Trip for you. Budget for a two week Trip start from Shaghai to Lhasa, ride to Everest Base Camp and around then back to Lhasa and back to Shanghai for about 3500 USD full package p.P

:mchappy:

Hi,

We are 3 french people doing a long road trip this summer from India to Paris, via Pakistan, China and Khirgizistan. We plan to arrive at the Pakistani-Chinese border between the 21st of August and the 30th of August. We will then need a guide from Pundjerab pass up to the Khirgiz-Chinese border, as asked by the chinese authorities. We are currently looking for people who would like to join us to reduce the costs, and we are also asking several touring agencies to try and find the best price (for now the best we have found was 550$/pers, but seems strange, as it is quite lower than the others). Feel free to reply to my post if you have any useful information, or if you want to join us!



Thanks a lot,
Best regards,

Samuel

Locals living around northern KKH (Gilgit & Hunza) in Pakistan dont need visas to visit or work in China and many of them own businesses there. They can be a good source of information and contacts in China. You will be crossing this area on your way.

Hi Omie,

thanks for your reply. In the meantime we have contacted several touring agent, and have received the following quote:

If the 3 motorcycles and stay in China 5 days the cost is: 1300 USD The cost in detail is as following: 1 Permit for enter China: 50 USD2 license plates: 30 USD *3 motorcycles = 90 USD 3 Insurance for the guest: 10 USD p/p *3= 30 USD 4 Insurance for the third person: 40 USD *3 / motorcycles = 120 USD 5 Fee for the Customs: Khoqirap Pass: 200 USD for three motorcycles Turgart pass: 200 USD for three cycles 6 Driving License: 20 USD *3= 60 USD 7 Service for the guide: 80 USD a day * 5 days= 400 USD 8 Trance for the guide: 150 USD. ( Kashgar –Khonqirap Pass and Kashgar- Irkeshitan pass).

Do you know a bit about the details? For instance the customs fee seems huge, and I don't know what "Trance for the guide" means...

Thanks a lot,Best regards,Samuel

Hi Sam,
Entry into Pakistan from Khanjerab is a preferred route and the only one where you can get VOI. I havent taken my bike to China (prefer renting or buying 125 cc) so cant comment but HUBBERS like Donato (Dnicolletti), Fabian (Saliadarunavuelta) and many others who crossed China should be able to help.
Regards
Omar

Is Taher still around?

What email does he respond to these days?

vette

TBH, I still remain very skeptic about the real need to hire a guide and have all these overpriced paperwork bureaucracy done by agency stuff in order to fit to chinese laws.

The following website kept my attention:

Provisions on Administration of Motor Vehicles and Drivers of Temporary Entry

I will be travelling to China for XMas 2012 (not by bike tho), which will be my second visit to this country. I will try to figure out In Situ, with, of course, the help of native chinese.

Personally, in the scope of my later SE Asia trip, it will be black or white. Either travel alone or simply avoid China (alternatively a cheap flight and a couple of weeks stay will definitely be much more worth the money tho)

:mchappy:

Cheers

Hello Arkean,

That is an interesting document, which suggests an easier temporary import, than what the agents would have us believe.

It almost appears that one can do this import of temporary motor vehicle one self.

OK, the foreign language to Chinese translations would need to be handled by a translator services of acceptance to the Beijing Traffic management.

Did you say that you were planning to visit China in December 2012, but without your bike?

Then I hope you will be able to find more information on the temporary import situation.

vette
(pm sent)

I travelled with one of this agencies in September this year and they didn't try to tell me where to dine but they did choose all the roads we took and most of our (expensive) accommodation.
I'm not happy with the service of that company because I think they don't have the right government contacts to foresee and prevent administrative problems. We were supposed to do two trips with them (Torugart to Takeshiken and Erenhot to Mohan) and the government cancelled our second trip. The reason there was two trips was that lack of government contacts and foresight. It was Panorama Tours (now they are called Greatway).
The guide they assign you could be a nice accommodating guy (ours was) but he is still a government agent and will still BS you into taking whatever road the government wants you to take. He is not there to take you sightseeing, he's there to make sure you go only where they want you to go.

.
.
I recently got this quote for 4x4 vehicles (4 off)
There is no reference for guide or length of time in China, which would normally be added on to the bottom price.
We plan to provide our own registered Chinese tour guide (who must be government registered etc) so our time in China could be 1 week or 10 weeks.
6550 US$ is roughly 42,575 RNB (CNY)
.
.
Enter : Kirgystan Torugart pass
Exit : Inner Mongolia Eryn Hohhut

Price

1. Beijing Inter-provincial Permit : 700US$/per car X 4 car =2800US$
2. Xinjiang Province Permit : 250US$/ per car X 4 cars=1000US$
3. Customs entry decelerations : 170US$/per car X 4 cars=680US$
4. Customs exit decelerations : 170US$/per car X 4 cars=680US$

Temporary Driving license : 100US$/ per person X 4 person =400US$
Temporary Vehicle registrations number plates: 100US$/ per car X 4 cars =400US$


Cars Traffic Insurance （obligations must buy）
100US$/ per car X 4 cars=400US$ for 1 month .


Guide for Kirgystan—Kashgar border : 310US$/ meet you border and lead Kashgar ..this is border rule local guide.
Total: 6670 US$


vette