Going to China advise please (after reading the forum I still have some questions)
 

Hi There,

Mi wife and I have been dreaming for about 4 years to do a motorcycle RTW , we have been saving and the plan was start the trip by the beginning of 2015, but I have been retrenched and now is a good time to star the trip.

The problem is that instead of having a year to plan it, we have around 2 (if we start in Australia) o 4 months (if we start in Chile, our home country) to plan it.

The last month has been really crazy reading the forum, planning, doing the math ($), etc. Actually we still don't decide if we will do it with a Chilean or Australian registered bike.

So this week I have been reading about going to China in the bike, I didn't know it was such a pain in the neck!!!!. I don't have time to do all the paper work now (and probably I can't as I still don't buy the bike), but I have been reading a lot to get an idea of how to do it when the time comes.

So here a few questions:

Do I need a carnet to go to China? (I think I don't but I didn't find any post saying that explicitly)
we are thinking to travel without a carnet because we need the cash for the trip.

How much time in advance normally we should need to join a group to go to China (share co$t) and do all the paperwork?
I've seen here that everybody plans going to China between 6 to 12 months in advance.
My plan is to travel to some place "near China" (Spain or Russia) and there stay a couple of months and do the paperwork and find a group to join.

Tibet is a must, if we can't get there in the bike we will store the bike in some neighbor country and take a "normal people tour" (booooring tour for us)

Our dates are now highly undefined, if we start in Australia we would like go to South East Asia and then China in the first half of 2014, if we start in Chile we will do America, then Europe(maybe) then China.

Any advice will be very much appreciated, specially from people who has been there.

PS: sorry about the long post :D :smartass:

You would absolutely need a carnet for australia. For china it's not required. I'm going to guess that it would be a helluva lot cheaper & easier to buy & register a bike in your home country than in Australia.

As far as joining a china group, the processing time is usually 3 months but I do have a friend that joined our existing group with just over a month lead time. We did the 5 day run from Kyrgyzstan to Pakistan. Time of year should also be a major factor, you don't want to get stuck trying to cross the mountains in winter. Many roads close due to snow.

Good luck!

As of about 18 months ago it was quite possible to visit Tibet from Nepal - there were lots of travel organisers making that offer.
Such a trip could provide a break from riding "all day, every day".

Hi Niello8 and Walkabout:

Thanks for the info.

Is relieving to know that we will not need half a year to join a group to go to China.

The route of 5 days from Kyrgyzstan to Pakistan looks very appealing and "cheap". According to Carnet de Passages en Douanes - List of countries where it is Required | Horizons Unlimited
Kyrgyzstan does not requires the carnet, but Pakistan does. Do you know an alternative route without a carnet?
I was thinking in crossing China from north (anywhere) to south (Laos), travel a little bit in South East Asia and then ship the bike somewhere else.

About were to buy the bike, I'm still doing the maths, prices are around the same, but if I buy the bike in Australia later I can't register it in Chile :(. but according to Google the carnet in Chile cost 200% of the bike, in Australia only 30%. Most likely we will travel without a carnet as we need the cash for the trip.

cheers!

It sounds like you've made up your mind about going to China, but I want to mention a couple of things based on my trip through China in 2008.

I was also part of a group, and have to say that riding through China was a very frustrating experience. We had to travel in convoy with a lead and trail guide and could not deviate from the set route, or even stop for pictures along the way! We had a start and stop at specified places along the route, even if it meant riding long after dark.

Basically think of all the things most people like about riding (freedom, flexibility, spontaneity), and then subtract them. China could be an absolutely spectacular riding destination, but as long as you have to have a guide I will never go back (on a bike).

Would be interesting to hear if others have a similar impression of riding in China, I can't say that I've seen many people raving about their transits through China with an official group.

Having rode through the western part of China last year, I can say it is a lot better than motorieters trip in 2008

Although the Chinese gov did stuff up our whole trip prep and changed the route, we still managed to ride.

Our guide was driven by a couple in our group who had a 4WD, so we saved on car and driver cost. We were allowed to ride between each lodging by our selves, the only stipulation being that before entering the destination town/city, we waited for the guide at the outskirts. As he knew the area, it made our trip all the better, no need for navigation, just head for a town and wait. We could stop at our leisure, take photos etc whatever, but there are many police and/or military checkpoints, so if we were stopped, the 4wd normally caught us up and if there were any dramas, our guide fixed them

I think it is worth the hassle, even though the Chinese drivers got their driving abilities from the cornflakes packet, they are shocking drivers and quite suicidal

But, other than that, it can be fun.

Note, I only rode Xianxang province, where we were allowed to ride on the interstate, in fact we had no real choice, it is the only road that crosses the Gobi desert. In the east, interstates/highways and toll roads are off limits to motorbikes. This means you are shunted along with the trucks onto the secondary roads. From 1st hand accounts, these can be a bit scary, especially the hilly territory as all the trucks constantly keep their brakes cool with water, which means oily water at every turn, so it may be a bit slippery.

Cheers
TS

Hi Motoreiter & TravellingStrom:

Thanks for the warnings, I have been thinking in that, not fun at all on having a fixed route, fixed time frame and a guide (at least an official one), but China looks so interesting that we want to try it.

We will try to join a group when time comes; if we can't, we will take some "normal people tour", at least to go to the Great Wall and to Tibet.

Cheers

If you go the long way via China, Mongolia, Russia, you can bypass carnet countries (Iran, Pakistan, Nepal & India) but this increases the expense for china & you still need the carnet for Australia. Also Indonesia requires it if you go there. Malaysia likes for you to have one. Kyrgyzstan does not require carnet.

Check those percentages because I believe it's determined by the countries you intend to visit, not the bike's country of origin. If I remember correctly, Pakistan & India are 150 or 200%.

Our experience in china was also frustrating. The company seemed inexperienced, especially with a moto convoy. The DMV took a couple days with us waiting outside. No one bothered to tell us what was going on. We got smacked with extra costs and substandard accommodation as well. But the whole thing was very interesting with western china Uighur culture. We were elated to cross into Pakistan tho:)

I have to agree with the above posts that riding through China is a frustrating experience. We (two motorbikes) did a 6-day 'tour' from Kyrgyzstan to Pakistan via Kashgar earlier this year, 3 days of which were spent getting the bikes in and out of the country (you don't know bureaucracy until you've been to China with a vehicle...). The rest of the time we had to follow the guide's jeep.

It is also very expensive, especially for bikers since the guide will need his own car. Rules change every year and our guide told us in the future permits will have to be applied for per province you want to visit, which will make it even more expensive and time consuming.

If you do decide to ride China, join a group like you're planning to do to get the cost down (you'll need to very flexible in terms of dates tho). If you'll organise it yourself, shop around because there's huge differences in price and professionalism between agencies. But personally, I'll leave my bike at home or in another country when I visit China again ;)

Good luck!

hi,

Thanks to everybody for your answers.... maybe when time comes, I will think again about going to china in the bike, maybe will be better go on foot.

cheers,

Estimado amigo, creo que estamos en casi un mismo dilema.
En mi pagina puedes ver la ruta que voy a hacer por Asia y vas a tener bastante información de Australia...en Australia gaste U$S 40 diarios de presupuesto.Para algunos países de Asia ese puede ser el presupuesto semanal.
Cuando veas la ruta,vas a ver que bien valen los riesgos.
He comprado una moto de 125 cc en Australia y la vendí...ahora voy a comprar otra en India o alquilarla para todo el trayecto.
Hay un link donde puedes ver mucha información de la que buscas: Redirecting
mi blog es The Dreams Trip / El viaje de los sueños
Espero que te sirva de guia.
Saludos.
Ernesto

Hola Ernesto, linda página e increíble viaje!!!

averigua sobre india, creo que alguien me dijo (o leí, la verdad que no me acuerdo) que extranjeros no pueden inscribir motos allí


felicitaciones,
muchas suerte!!!

PD: no tienes página en Facebook??

So, just to clarify, at this moment in time there's no option for riding from KTM into Tibet and back solo? You HAVE to go via an organised tour? :(

I got the idea that the only way is via an organized tour, so the best solo experience probably it would be you and the guide, but bloody expensive... we almost discarded China in the bike, probably we will store the bike in Mongolia and go to backpacking to China...anyway it will be interesting, and probably a good rest from the bike after a couple of months riding.

cheers!

Hi Gotan,
we crossed China some months ago and it was really nice. We planned it before leaving and set up a group with 3 people in a Landcruiser. While they were in Kazakhstan they met a couple in a Hyundai Gallopper and they join us. So you can join a group only some weeks before entering China. There are always some people looking for other to set up a group to cross China, so I guess you will find it.
Crossing Tibet on the bike was one of the highlights of our trip, feel free to have a look on our website. Honestly, you should keep on looking for a group to join. The road from Lhasa to Kathmandu is one of the best I have ever ridden.
We didn't need the Carnet for neither for China nor for Mongolia but needed it in Nepal and India.
Guillaume